The drowned mob is too dangerous currently to players who has recently created their world and commonly spawns in rivers, swamps, and oceans, i here suggest ideas to change the mob behaivour to make so the mob will be less dangerous to newly spawned players. What should we change with the mob?
The poll can you vote in to make suggestions, or you can reply please.
ATTACHMENTS
The drowned mob.
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I Like Minecraft! and I hate being killed by mobs or by the Minecraft environment.
The drowned mob is too dangerous currently to players who has recently created their world and commonly spawns in rivers, swamps, and oceans, i here suggest ideas to change the mob behaivour to make so the mob will be less dangerous to newly spawned players. What should we change with the mob?
The poll can you vote in to make suggestions, or you can reply please.
Are you joking? The Drowned isn't hard at all, it's only the ones who bear tridents that are OP - they need to make those have to run back and grab the trident they threw instead of having infinitely many of them or something. Normal ones can rise and fall fast but they more float than swim to you. I can kill them with my bare hands without breaking a sweat. Also, it would be nice if the ones with fishing rods could throw the hooks to try and pull you in to them, but I doubt that's happening.
Neutralizing the trident-throwers doesn't make much sense to me, they just need to be nerfed a little. The other types (nautilus, empty, fishing) need to be made more powerful. Baby drowned and drown jockeys are okay difficulty.
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Play on an easier difficulty? I'm not disagreeing at all that drowned (specifically trident throwers) are a very tough mob to take on early in the game but they are pretty easy to avoid. I only ever play on hard and I had an incident with a trident wielding drowned at the start of my world but that was largely a failure to understand the importance of using the new swimming method. While swimming or traveling in a boat I've never been hit by a trident unless I stopped to look around and see where the sound was coming from. Similarly on land, if you encounter a trident thrower with stock iron armor and sword he would be a tough target to kill but easy enough to turn around and run away from it. I've read that drowned can spawn in rivers but since the release of 1.13 I haven't personally seen one and given the low number of water blocks in a river compared to the surface blocks of the ground and caves loaded below them it makes sense they wouldn't spawn very often. I definitely don't think the number of trident wielding drowned should be lowered especially since the only manner we have of repairing them is through mending or using another drowned-dropped trident. I killed so many trident-trowing drowned with looting 3 before I got my first trident (ironically while building a drowned farm) that I thought there was a bug with the drop rates, so I really don't like the thought of cutting the number of them to 1/3.
Before 1.13 there were 2 simple things players could do to avoid mobs while exploring over night, either a 20-block-high pillar or a door at the bottom of a body of water. The addition of the Drowned and the Phantom seem to be specifically aimed at removing the security those positions used to provide so I really don't foresee Mojang nerfing them at all. It really does suck to be exploring several thousands of blocks from your home only to die from a trident but it really doesn't seem any different to me than dying from a creeper in the woods or a shulker in the end. I'd wouldn't mind at all if they worked with a chunk's day difficulty to control spawning so they only reach infestation levels in chunks you spent a lot of time in but that would significantly decrease their effectiveness in deterring people from staying still to pass the night in water so I doubt it'd be added.
The bad with the mob is that it commonly spawn in the river and when i going the water the drowned spawn and starts attack me directly, and the drowned that spawns with trident is more dangerous and takes 4 ½ hearts from my health and therefore i want to reduce the spawning.
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I Like Minecraft! and I hate being killed by mobs or by the Minecraft environment.
The bad with the mob is that it commonly spawn in the river and when i going the water the drowned spawn and starts attack me directly, and the drowned that spawns with trident is more dangerous and takes 4 ½ hearts from my health and therefore i want to reduce the spawning.
I get what you're saying but since trident wielders only account for 15% of spawned drowned and the best drop rate is about 11% with looting 3 which means you already need to go through about 100 drowned before you get one to drop a trident. That trident will have a random durability and unless you have a mending book handy the only way to repair the trident will be after working your way through another 100 drowned to get another trident. To drop the spawn rates to 5%, as you suggested, would increase that to nearly 300 drowned needing spawned in order to get the number of trident throwers needed to successfully drop a trident and 300 more to repair it and so on. The suggestion would make getting a trident FAR more difficult and annoying to do then dealing with an occasional land walking drowned. Have you considered just lighting the river up with sea pickles or another light-emitting block to disable their spawning (like every other mob)? Like I said, I play exclusively on Hard and I haven't experienced any issue with drowned spawning from random rivers so if this is a river you live near I would suggest just lighting it up to prevent any drowned from spawning.
Maybe a delay between trident throws (like a player using loyalty) or trident wielders only throwing the trident if they can't path-find to you or only when the distance between mob and target player is increasing (indicating you're running away) would we workable nerfs but I definitely don't favor reduced spawn rates and don't really think they need nerfed at all.
Something missing from the poll is correcting the spawn conditions so that Drowned only spawn on solid non-transparent blocks (like every hostile except MS/Mj's other problem child: MobB).
Marked as REOPENED / Unresolved / last updated 07Nov18
Actually the mid-water spawns were defended as works-as-intended and the issue was closed as resolved. It was only re-opened as relating to https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-138939 which is about mobs spawning in water above sea level which they shouldn't be able to.
Yeah, Drowned spawning anywhere in water is intentional and logical - you don't drown yourself only on the seafloor, do you now? The only time I'd really think Drowned would be an issue in rivers is when you're digging out clay, though, in which case, why not find a lake or swamp instead? Less depth means lower spawn rates.
Actually the mid-water spawns were defended as works-as-intended and the issue was closed as resolved. It was only re-opened as relating to https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-138939 which is about mobs spawning in water above sea level which they shouldn't be able to.
Presuming that is indeed the case
[I see only a single WAI comment made after (and not by a mod) the issue was reopened on 06Aug18
the timeline is
report made 06Aug18-0525
marked resolved (which all too often means only that it is considered a duplicate) 06Aug18-0946
marked reopened 06Aug18-1206
WAI comment made 21Aug18-0424
Link to MC-138939 added 07Nov18-1727)
it would be rarther helpful if the actual status was more clearly stated…
Even assuming MS/Mj does (currently) intend this aberant spawning behavior, my comments as to the advantages of regularising drowned spawning remain valid. [Hope, the great vice of mankind, does spring eternal.]
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"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
I disagree with this. The ones with Tridents are kind of annoying but doable, and the regular ones are easier than regular Zombies, even when there are a ton of them. And I say that who has been playing exclusively in ocean areas since 1.13.
The most I would want is to slow the throw speed of the ones holding Tridents. They currently throw every 1.5 seconds no matter what, but it would be better if it behaved like Loyalty I. Then it would return only after it hits an entity or block, and would generally add a couple seconds between each throw.
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I disagree with this. The ones with Tridents are kind of annoying but doable, and the regular ones are easier than regular Zombies, even when there are a ton of them. And I say that who has been playing exclusively in ocean areas since 1.13.
The most I would want is to slow the throw speed of the ones holding Tridents. They currently throw every 1.5 seconds no matter what, but it would be better if it behaved like Loyalty I. Then it would return only after it hits an entity or block, and would generally add a couple seconds between each throw.
No. We need to be making PvE harder, not easier. Survival at this point is literally just creative with gathering resources, which is what peaceful is for. Not survival
No. We need to be making PvE harder, not easier. Survival at this point is literally just creative with gathering resources, which is what peaceful is for. Not survival
lol- What? Creative mode players are immortal, don't draw the attention of mobs, can spawn in blocks infinity (including items unobtainable in survival), and have the ability to fly with total control over player position. Survival mode players have a set health that is effected by mobs and in-game events, have a hunger status to effect health regeneration, are targeted by any hostile mobs in proximity to them, can only placed mined blocks that are in their inventory, and have only limited flight capabilities provided by a late-game item that's pretty much useless for building. These are 2 wildly different game modes and there isn't any real comparison between the two. You could've, more accurately, said that Peaceful is like Creative with resource gathering but that still totally ignores that creative players fly and have access to an unmatched bank of resources and take no damage from anything beyond commands and the Void.
With the release of 1.13 several other people any myself started a new vanilla server after years of playing semi-vanilla, we ALL died. While it is true that attaining the best equipment in the game makes PVE a simple thing mobs need to be considered in all manifestations of the game which includes being encountered by players who haven't even made a crafting table yet. Now of course we play on Hard difficulty which makes things a little more difficult but less than a week ago I was warning someone who hadn't played MC since 1.11 to avoid trident-wielding drowned unless they have something more than iron to bring to the party when he became like the 6th of us to die on their first couple days from impaling. I even keep seeing people talk about how they never see phantoms and think they're useless additions while I've seen 18 of them flying over island, clustered and waiting for me to show my face. I really like these additions and as someone who's played them on Hard from bare fist to Smite5 I don't see a need for either of them to be nerfed or buffed, they're niche predators that do their jobs well and maintain the game balance for mobs.
While I can understand wanting more of a challenge from the game and PVE that's exactly what commands, functions and mods are designed to give you and not a good reason to make mobs so hard only the best equipped players can handle them. Saying "This game's too easy we need harder stuff" is a perfectly valid opinion and reason not to support this suggestion but saying "survival is just like creative with resource gathering" is a false statement that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Maybe if PVE is so easy for you you could give the OP some tips to avoid dying from trident throwing drowned while frshly spawned into the world since that's what this suggestion is about.
lol- What? Creative mode players are immortal, don't draw the attention of mobs, can spawn in blocks infinity (including items unobtainable in survival), and have the ability to fly with total control over player position. Survival mode players have a set health that is effected by mobs and in-game events, have a hunger status to effect health regeneration, are targeted by any hostile mobs in proximity to them, can only placed mined blocks that are in their inventory, and have only limited flight capabilities provided by a late-game item that's pretty much useless for building. These are 2 wildly different game modes and there isn't any real comparison between the two. You could've, more accurately, said that Peaceful is like Creative with resource gathering but that still totally ignores that creative players fly and have access to an unmatched bank of resources and take no damage from anything beyond commands and the Void.
By creative I'm mainly referring to the building aspect. Survival focuses more on building than surviving and exploring. Building is what peaceful and creative are for while survival should be more about surviving and exploring.
With the release of 1.13 several other people any myself started a new vanilla server after years of playing semi-vanilla, we ALL died. While it is true that attaining the best equipment in the game makes PVE a simple thing mobs need to be considered in all manifestations of the game which includes being encountered by players who haven't even made a crafting table yet. Now of course we play on Hard difficulty which makes things a little more difficult but less than a week ago I was warning someone who hadn't played MC since 1.11 to avoid trident-wielding drowned unless they have something more than iron to bring to the party when he became like the 6th of us to die on their first couple days from impaling. I even keep seeing people talk about how they never see phantoms and think they're useless additions while I've seen 18 of them flying over island, clustered and waiting for me to show my face. I really like these additions and as someone who's played them on Hard from bare fist to Smite5 I don't see a need for either of them to be nerfed or buffed, they're niche predators that do their jobs well and maintain the game balance for mobs.
You're probably just inexperienced. Building a shelter basically removes any difficulty from outside mobs with the exception of creepers, and there is basically no reason to go out once you're settled. And the power creep of items is a huge issue. It doesn't become challenging any more once you have enchanted diamond armor. Tiers should be different, not strictly better.
While I can understand wanting more of a challenge from the game and PVE that's exactly what commands, functions and mods are designed to give you and not a good reason to make mobs so hard only the best equipped players can handle them. Saying "This game's too easy we need harder stuff" is a perfectly valid opinion and reason not to support this suggestion but saying "survival is just like creative with resource gathering" is a false statement that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Maybe if PVE is so easy for you you could give the OP some tips to avoid dying from trident throwing drowned while frshly spawned into the world since that's what this suggestion is about.
That's part of the problem though. Survival should be hard on its own without add-ons. The progression is way too linear and early-game is a joke.
By creative I'm mainly referring to the building aspect. Survival focuses more on building than surviving and exploring. Building is what peaceful and creative are for while survival should be more about surviving and exploring.
What makes you think survival focuses on building rather than exploring? Exploring is the vast majority of how I play the game and until 1.13 I never used a bed or built a building to hold one. There is no need to build any sort of permanent structure the game beyond a storage facility if all you want to do is explore.
You're probably just inexperienced. Building a shelter basically removes any difficulty from outside mobs with the exception of creepers, and there is basically no reason to go out once you're settled. And the power creep of items is a huge issue. It doesn't become challenging any more once you have enchanted diamond armor. Tiers should be different, not strictly better.
So first you start by complaining that the game doesn't encourage exploring enough and then call me inexperienced because when I load a world I'd rather hunt for a good place to build and mine then just building a shelter at the global spawn and staying there until the game poses no more challenge. If that's the way you choose to play the game then maybe that's why you think the game is too easy and assume survival isn't for exploring. You don't really seem to have a solid stance because you're complaining about survival favoring building while also suggesting more difficult mobs be added to natural overworld spawning which would only further encourage people to hunker down in 1 location until the game stops being challenging. Again, maybe you like that but I prefer being able to explore the world without needing to acquire all the best the game has to offer first. So which is it? Are the mobs too easy and you need more of a challenge or do you think the game should encourage more free exploration of the world (which would be an argument for easier mobs)? If your beef is with how easy it is once you have full diamond everything then I'd suggest making a new suggestion regarding balancing armor rather than going off on that tangent in someone else's suggestion. At any rate you could increase your own game difficulty just by removing a piece of armor.
That's part of the problem though. Survival should be hard on its own without add-ons. The progression is way too linear and early-game is a joke.
Again it's looking like your issue is caused by the way you choose to play the game. Saying early-game is a joke implies your spending early game below ground in a relatively safe position grinding out what you need to effectively bypass early game play. As someone who plays the game by wandering off into it I can tell you that early game is as hard as it gets. Early game you have no food, no resources, no weapon, no defense and if you play on Hard even just digging down and starting to mine instead of collecting valuable food assures you will die of starvation. I think seeing someone call a 3D sandbox game 'linear' is probably the strangest part for me. Minecraft has no objective or any real way to 'conquer' the game so it defies a title like 'linear' which would mean one thing needs done before another. Even the Enderdragon can be ignored in favor of bridging out into the End if that is what someone wants to do and I've never met someone who said "I did everything I can do in that world so I'm done with it" which leads me to believe you just have a very linear play style.
What makes you think survival focuses on building rather than exploring? Exploring is the vast majority of how I play the game and until 1.13 I never used a bed or built a building to hold one. There is no need to build any sort of permanent structure the game beyond a storage facility if all you want to do is explore.
But exploring is still limited. There needs to be more structures and unique loot. The structures we do have are too easy and don't offer any loot that we can't get already. And if you do just build a structure then it becomes too easy. There's nothing preventing you from just staying in a certain spot the entire game, which shouldn't happen.
So first you start by complaining that the game doesn't encourage exploring enough and then call me inexperienced because when I load a world I'd rather hunt for a good place to build and mine then just building a shelter at the global spawn and staying there until the game poses no more challenge. If that's the way you choose to play the game then maybe that's why you think the game is too easy and assume survival isn't for exploring. You don't really seem to have a solid stance because you're complaining about survival favoring building while also suggesting more difficult mobs be added to natural overworld spawning which would only further encourage people to hunker down in 1 location until the game stops being challenging. Again, maybe you like that but I prefer being able to explore the world without needing to acquire all the best the game has to offer first. So which is it? Are the mobs too easy and you need more of a challenge or do you think the game should encourage more free exploration of the world (which would be an argument for easier mobs)? If your beef is with how easy it is once you have full diamond everything then I'd suggest making a new suggestion regarding balancing armor rather than going off on that tangent in someone else's suggestion. At any rate you could increase your own game difficulty just by removing a piece of armor.
I'm suggesting both harder mobs and more reasoning too explore. Mobs are easily avoided by just building a structure, and there is little real incentive to explore other than just wanting too. And removing the piece of armor doesn't help it at all. Early game mobs can remain as is, but mobs should become more difficult as the game passes
Again it's looking like your issue is caused by the way you choose to play the game. Saying early-game is a joke implies your spending early game below ground in a relatively safe position grinding out what you need to effectively bypass early game play. As someone who plays the game by wandering off into it I can tell you that early game is as hard as it gets. Early game you have no food, no resources, no weapon, no defense and if you play on Hard even just digging down and starting to mine instead of collecting valuable food assures you will die of starvation. I think seeing someone call a 3D sandbox game 'linear' is probably the strangest part for me. Minecraft has no objective or any real way to 'conquer' the game so it defies a title like 'linear' which would mean one thing needs done before another. Even the Enderdragon can be ignored in favor of bridging out into the End if that is what someone wants to do and I've never met someone who said "I did everything I can do in that world so I'm done with it" which leads me to believe you just have a very linear play style.
Sure, it can be hard if you go out. But at the same time you shouldn't be able to bypass the difficulty by just building a structure and grinding. I'm referring to the progression when I call it linear. The underground needs a complete overhaul since iron is relatively easy to find, and each armor piece is strictly better than the previous. And once you have diamond gear mobs become a joke.
…Mobs are easily avoided by just building a structure, and there is little real incentive to explore other than just wanting too…BINGO
…you shouldn't be able to bypass the difficulty by just building a structure and grinding.
spoke too soon…
Interpolated comments
The 2nd half of the first quoted bit ["there is little real incentive to explore other than just wanting too…"] neatly and concisely emplains why so many people enjoy exploring MC worlds: its because that is something they WANT to do (not something that is required of them).
This is largely because of the 1st half of the first quoted bit ["Mobs are easily avoided by just building a structure…"] .
While this is a bit of an overstatement very early-game, the idea that players are not required (or forced/coerced/compelled/"encouraged" nor bullied/bulldozed) to avoid a certain playstyle (one that that emphasises hunkering down and building resources/capabilities until exploration can be done well equipped and with a strong logistics 'tail') is the great strength of the game.
That a certain playstyle may not suit a specific person's interests is unimportant, provided there is available to them their preferred playstyle.
To use two examples that should sound familiar:
TheMasterCaver and InfiniteCorners have both described preferred playstyles that not only (appear to) differ greatly from each other, but both of which are sufficiently far from my preferences that it seems unlikely that any two of us would enjoy playing under the same constrained style…
— yet we all enjoy the same product.
That this occurs is precisely because MC does so little to define what we "shouldn't be able to [do]".
The objects to MobB/Drowned I have raised (here and previously) are based on both being implemented in a ways that actively pushe players away from one range of playstyles; essentially by creating mobs without providing a torch&fence equivalent.
[In this, the new mobs are very different from many previous changes. Redstone, for instance, offers great advantages in resource accumulation to those who chose to use it, but does nothing to impede the play of those who do not. {Jungle Temple traps being a sufficiently trivial intrusion that I think they may be ignored.}]
Taking this back to the OP:
The contention does not seem to be that the new mobs (Drowned specifically) are too tough [PERIOD], but that they are too dangerous under certain specific circumstances (the OP cites "newly spawned players" & those that "in rivers, swamps, and oceans" ).
I would extend this to those players who want to be able to create safe areas (ie. areas where mobs are positively prevented from spawning) without wrapping every build in an elaborate defensive 'box'.
That difficult combat challenges are put into the game is desirable only provided these do not become required.
(Consider the furor if 'something else' was substituted for 'difficult combat challenge' requirement:
how loud would be the wailing if something as simple as a basic item sorter/storage system was required to permit zombies to spawn…
or an iron farm producing 20 ingots an hour to spawn skeletons?)
Particularly with regards to playing games "I do not enjoy" is not (and should not be used as) an agrument that "you must not do".
Far better [for both individual players and MS/Mj's bottom line] if the game makes as little attempt to prevent BadWrongFun™ as possible…
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"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
The drowned mob is very easy to take down in my opinion. I've never encountered one with a trident before, but just hitting them with a stone sword 4 times is pretty easy if you ask me.
I agree with the idea of making the drowned mob carry a trident when your farther in the game because the drowned mob has the same stats as a zombie because its a drowned zombie, and you usually encounter zombies on your first night depending on your difficulty. I do understand that they spawn in the water, but they don't spawn very much.
I suggest trident-wielding Drowned and other harder versions of common mobs only appear past a certain regional or global difficulty. It has been said before and will be said again by many: regional difficulty and global difficulty are vastly underused.
The drowned mob is too dangerous currently to players who has recently created their world and commonly spawns in rivers, swamps, and oceans, i here suggest ideas to change the mob behaivour to make so the mob will be less dangerous to newly spawned players. What should we change with the mob?
The poll can you vote in to make suggestions, or you can reply please.
I Like Minecraft! and I hate being killed by mobs or by the Minecraft environment.
-Psl85
Are you joking? The Drowned isn't hard at all, it's only the ones who bear tridents that are OP - they need to make those have to run back and grab the trident they threw instead of having infinitely many of them or something. Normal ones can rise and fall fast but they more float than swim to you. I can kill them with my bare hands without breaking a sweat. Also, it would be nice if the ones with fishing rods could throw the hooks to try and pull you in to them, but I doubt that's happening.
Neutralizing the trident-throwers doesn't make much sense to me, they just need to be nerfed a little. The other types (nautilus, empty, fishing) need to be made more powerful. Baby drowned and drown jockeys are okay difficulty.
Play on an easier difficulty? I'm not disagreeing at all that drowned (specifically trident throwers) are a very tough mob to take on early in the game but they are pretty easy to avoid. I only ever play on hard and I had an incident with a trident wielding drowned at the start of my world but that was largely a failure to understand the importance of using the new swimming method. While swimming or traveling in a boat I've never been hit by a trident unless I stopped to look around and see where the sound was coming from. Similarly on land, if you encounter a trident thrower with stock iron armor and sword he would be a tough target to kill but easy enough to turn around and run away from it. I've read that drowned can spawn in rivers but since the release of 1.13 I haven't personally seen one and given the low number of water blocks in a river compared to the surface blocks of the ground and caves loaded below them it makes sense they wouldn't spawn very often. I definitely don't think the number of trident wielding drowned should be lowered especially since the only manner we have of repairing them is through mending or using another drowned-dropped trident. I killed so many trident-trowing drowned with looting 3 before I got my first trident (ironically while building a drowned farm) that I thought there was a bug with the drop rates, so I really don't like the thought of cutting the number of them to 1/3.
Before 1.13 there were 2 simple things players could do to avoid mobs while exploring over night, either a 20-block-high pillar or a door at the bottom of a body of water. The addition of the Drowned and the Phantom seem to be specifically aimed at removing the security those positions used to provide so I really don't foresee Mojang nerfing them at all. It really does suck to be exploring several thousands of blocks from your home only to die from a trident but it really doesn't seem any different to me than dying from a creeper in the woods or a shulker in the end. I'd wouldn't mind at all if they worked with a chunk's day difficulty to control spawning so they only reach infestation levels in chunks you spent a lot of time in but that would significantly decrease their effectiveness in deterring people from staying still to pass the night in water so I doubt it'd be added.
The bad with the mob is that it commonly spawn in the river and when i going the water the drowned spawn and starts attack me directly, and the drowned that spawns with trident is more dangerous and takes 4 ½ hearts from my health and therefore i want to reduce the spawning.
I Like Minecraft! and I hate being killed by mobs or by the Minecraft environment.
-Psl85
I get what you're saying but since trident wielders only account for 15% of spawned drowned and the best drop rate is about 11% with looting 3 which means you already need to go through about 100 drowned before you get one to drop a trident. That trident will have a random durability and unless you have a mending book handy the only way to repair the trident will be after working your way through another 100 drowned to get another trident. To drop the spawn rates to 5%, as you suggested, would increase that to nearly 300 drowned needing spawned in order to get the number of trident throwers needed to successfully drop a trident and 300 more to repair it and so on. The suggestion would make getting a trident FAR more difficult and annoying to do then dealing with an occasional land walking drowned. Have you considered just lighting the river up with sea pickles or another light-emitting block to disable their spawning (like every other mob)? Like I said, I play exclusively on Hard and I haven't experienced any issue with drowned spawning from random rivers so if this is a river you live near I would suggest just lighting it up to prevent any drowned from spawning.
Maybe a delay between trident throws (like a player using loyalty) or trident wielders only throwing the trident if they can't path-find to you or only when the distance between mob and target player is increasing (indicating you're running away) would we workable nerfs but I definitely don't favor reduced spawn rates and don't really think they need nerfed at all.
Something missing from the poll is correcting the spawn conditions so that Drowned only spawn on solid non-transparent blocks (like every hostile except MS/Mj's other problem child: MobB).
The mid water spawns are currently marked as a bug: https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-135660 (Drowned can spawn any height in water without floor.)
Marked as REOPENED / Unresolved / last updated 07Nov18
While this bug being fixed would not change the difficulty if individual examples, it would:
Having occasional tough mobs in the game (for which designation enchanted trident armed drowned may qualify) strikes me as a good thing...
provided there exist reasonable techniques by which one's bases may be secured against them.
Actually the mid-water spawns were defended as works-as-intended and the issue was closed as resolved. It was only re-opened as relating to https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC-138939 which is about mobs spawning in water above sea level which they shouldn't be able to.
Yeah, Drowned spawning anywhere in water is intentional and logical - you don't drown yourself only on the seafloor, do you now? The only time I'd really think Drowned would be an issue in rivers is when you're digging out clay, though, in which case, why not find a lake or swamp instead? Less depth means lower spawn rates.
Presuming that is indeed the case [I see only a single WAI comment made after (and not by a mod) the issue was reopened on 06Aug18 the timeline is
Even assuming MS/Mj does (currently) intend this aberant spawning behavior, my comments as to the advantages of regularising drowned spawning remain valid. [Hope, the great vice of mankind, does spring eternal.]
I disagree with this. The ones with Tridents are kind of annoying but doable, and the regular ones are easier than regular Zombies, even when there are a ton of them. And I say that who has been playing exclusively in ocean areas since 1.13.
The most I would want is to slow the throw speed of the ones holding Tridents. They currently throw every 1.5 seconds no matter what, but it would be better if it behaved like Loyalty I. Then it would return only after it hits an entity or block, and would generally add a couple seconds between each throw.
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Sure, that's a good compromise.
No. We need to be making PvE harder, not easier. Survival at this point is literally just creative with gathering resources, which is what peaceful is for. Not survival
lol- What? Creative mode players are immortal, don't draw the attention of mobs, can spawn in blocks infinity (including items unobtainable in survival), and have the ability to fly with total control over player position. Survival mode players have a set health that is effected by mobs and in-game events, have a hunger status to effect health regeneration, are targeted by any hostile mobs in proximity to them, can only placed mined blocks that are in their inventory, and have only limited flight capabilities provided by a late-game item that's pretty much useless for building. These are 2 wildly different game modes and there isn't any real comparison between the two. You could've, more accurately, said that Peaceful is like Creative with resource gathering but that still totally ignores that creative players fly and have access to an unmatched bank of resources and take no damage from anything beyond commands and the Void.
With the release of 1.13 several other people any myself started a new vanilla server after years of playing semi-vanilla, we ALL died. While it is true that attaining the best equipment in the game makes PVE a simple thing mobs need to be considered in all manifestations of the game which includes being encountered by players who haven't even made a crafting table yet. Now of course we play on Hard difficulty which makes things a little more difficult but less than a week ago I was warning someone who hadn't played MC since 1.11 to avoid trident-wielding drowned unless they have something more than iron to bring to the party when he became like the 6th of us to die on their first couple days from impaling. I even keep seeing people talk about how they never see phantoms and think they're useless additions while I've seen 18 of them flying over island, clustered and waiting for me to show my face. I really like these additions and as someone who's played them on Hard from bare fist to Smite5 I don't see a need for either of them to be nerfed or buffed, they're niche predators that do their jobs well and maintain the game balance for mobs.
While I can understand wanting more of a challenge from the game and PVE that's exactly what commands, functions and mods are designed to give you and not a good reason to make mobs so hard only the best equipped players can handle them. Saying "This game's too easy we need harder stuff" is a perfectly valid opinion and reason not to support this suggestion but saying "survival is just like creative with resource gathering" is a false statement that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Maybe if PVE is so easy for you you could give the OP some tips to avoid dying from trident throwing drowned while frshly spawned into the world since that's what this suggestion is about.
By creative I'm mainly referring to the building aspect. Survival focuses more on building than surviving and exploring. Building is what peaceful and creative are for while survival should be more about surviving and exploring.
You're probably just inexperienced. Building a shelter basically removes any difficulty from outside mobs with the exception of creepers, and there is basically no reason to go out once you're settled. And the power creep of items is a huge issue. It doesn't become challenging any more once you have enchanted diamond armor. Tiers should be different, not strictly better.
That's part of the problem though. Survival should be hard on its own without add-ons. The progression is way too linear and early-game is a joke.
What makes you think survival focuses on building rather than exploring? Exploring is the vast majority of how I play the game and until 1.13 I never used a bed or built a building to hold one. There is no need to build any sort of permanent structure the game beyond a storage facility if all you want to do is explore.
So first you start by complaining that the game doesn't encourage exploring enough and then call me inexperienced because when I load a world I'd rather hunt for a good place to build and mine then just building a shelter at the global spawn and staying there until the game poses no more challenge. If that's the way you choose to play the game then maybe that's why you think the game is too easy and assume survival isn't for exploring. You don't really seem to have a solid stance because you're complaining about survival favoring building while also suggesting more difficult mobs be added to natural overworld spawning which would only further encourage people to hunker down in 1 location until the game stops being challenging. Again, maybe you like that but I prefer being able to explore the world without needing to acquire all the best the game has to offer first. So which is it? Are the mobs too easy and you need more of a challenge or do you think the game should encourage more free exploration of the world (which would be an argument for easier mobs)? If your beef is with how easy it is once you have full diamond everything then I'd suggest making a new suggestion regarding balancing armor rather than going off on that tangent in someone else's suggestion. At any rate you could increase your own game difficulty just by removing a piece of armor.
Again it's looking like your issue is caused by the way you choose to play the game. Saying early-game is a joke implies your spending early game below ground in a relatively safe position grinding out what you need to effectively bypass early game play. As someone who plays the game by wandering off into it I can tell you that early game is as hard as it gets. Early game you have no food, no resources, no weapon, no defense and if you play on Hard even just digging down and starting to mine instead of collecting valuable food assures you will die of starvation. I think seeing someone call a 3D sandbox game 'linear' is probably the strangest part for me. Minecraft has no objective or any real way to 'conquer' the game so it defies a title like 'linear' which would mean one thing needs done before another. Even the Enderdragon can be ignored in favor of bridging out into the End if that is what someone wants to do and I've never met someone who said "I did everything I can do in that world so I'm done with it" which leads me to believe you just have a very linear play style.
But exploring is still limited. There needs to be more structures and unique loot. The structures we do have are too easy and don't offer any loot that we can't get already. And if you do just build a structure then it becomes too easy. There's nothing preventing you from just staying in a certain spot the entire game, which shouldn't happen.
I'm suggesting both harder mobs and more reasoning too explore. Mobs are easily avoided by just building a structure, and there is little real incentive to explore other than just wanting too. And removing the piece of armor doesn't help it at all. Early game mobs can remain as is, but mobs should become more difficult as the game passes
Sure, it can be hard if you go out. But at the same time you shouldn't be able to bypass the difficulty by just building a structure and grinding. I'm referring to the progression when I call it linear. The underground needs a complete overhaul since iron is relatively easy to find, and each armor piece is strictly better than the previous. And once you have diamond gear mobs become a joke.
Interpolated comments
The 2nd half of the first quoted bit ["there is little real incentive to explore other than just wanting too…"] neatly and concisely emplains why so many people enjoy exploring MC worlds: its because that is something they WANT to do (not something that is required of them).
This is largely because of the 1st half of the first quoted bit ["Mobs are easily avoided by just building a structure…"] .
While this is a bit of an overstatement very early-game, the idea that players are not required (or forced/coerced/compelled/"encouraged" nor bullied/bulldozed) to avoid a certain playstyle (one that that emphasises hunkering down and building resources/capabilities until exploration can be done well equipped and with a strong logistics 'tail') is the great strength of the game.
That a certain playstyle may not suit a specific person's interests is unimportant, provided there is available to them their preferred playstyle.
To use two examples that should sound familiar:
TheMasterCaver and InfiniteCorners have both described preferred playstyles that not only (appear to) differ greatly from each other, but both of which are sufficiently far from my preferences that it seems unlikely that any two of us would enjoy playing under the same constrained style…
— yet we all enjoy the same product.
That this occurs is precisely because MC does so little to define what we "shouldn't be able to [do]".
The objects to MobB/Drowned I have raised (here and previously) are based on both being implemented in a ways that actively pushe players away from one range of playstyles; essentially by creating mobs without providing a torch&fence equivalent.
[In this, the new mobs are very different from many previous changes. Redstone, for instance, offers great advantages in resource accumulation to those who chose to use it, but does nothing to impede the play of those who do not. {Jungle Temple traps being a sufficiently trivial intrusion that I think they may be ignored.}]
Taking this back to the OP:
The contention does not seem to be that the new mobs (Drowned specifically) are too tough [PERIOD], but that they are too dangerous under certain specific circumstances (the OP cites "newly spawned players" & those that "in rivers, swamps, and oceans" ).
I would extend this to those players who want to be able to create safe areas (ie. areas where mobs are positively prevented from spawning) without wrapping every build in an elaborate defensive 'box'.
That difficult combat challenges are put into the game is desirable only provided these do not become required.
(Consider the furor if 'something else' was substituted for 'difficult combat challenge' requirement:
how loud would be the wailing if something as simple as a basic item sorter/storage system was required to permit zombies to spawn…
or an iron farm producing 20 ingots an hour to spawn skeletons?)
Particularly with regards to playing games "I do not enjoy" is not (and should not be used as) an agrument that "you must not do".
Far better [for both individual players and MS/Mj's bottom line] if the game makes as little attempt to prevent BadWrongFun™ as possible…
The drowned mob is very easy to take down in my opinion. I've never encountered one with a trident before, but just hitting them with a stone sword 4 times is pretty easy if you ask me.
I agree with the idea of making the drowned mob carry a trident when your farther in the game because the drowned mob has the same stats as a zombie because its a drowned zombie, and you usually encounter zombies on your first night depending on your difficulty. I do understand that they spawn in the water, but they don't spawn very much.
", monospace">AND THIS...IS TO GO...EVEN FURTHER BEYOND!
I suggest trident-wielding Drowned and other harder versions of common mobs only appear past a certain regional or global difficulty. It has been said before and will be said again by many: regional difficulty and global difficulty are vastly underused.
Allyourbasearegone's suggestion seems the most logical. I support it.