We don't need to divide Survival into two Gamemodes, World Types, or Gamerules. We just need to be smart enough to balance the game to fit both styles of play.
As I've already said, there are many resources which can be farmed that have very little effect on balance or progression. Even Iron is practically pointless to collect after getting Diamond Tools. The only thing that iron ingots are really useful for are Beacons, and they require a laughably tiny amount of Iron compared to large construction projects. (Sure, Buckets, Compasses, Rails, and Anvils exist, but there's already enough Iron for those things without farms.)
What harm does farming for Quartz, Iron or Lapis do to the game's progression? Does having chests upon chests of Iron Blocks magically grant you Diamonds, Enchanted books, the Elytra or loads of TNT? Removing farms from the game just means that people interested in building on large scales have to work for extra playtime, because someone thought the game needed to have more "survival". You still need to kill the Ender Dragon with Diamonds that you find.
This game, to me, is the game that lets you choose another activity if you get bored of what you are currently doing. If you get tired of building, go on an adventure. If you get tired of adventuring, try designing some redstone. I don't want to spend endless time mining in order to build something worth my time, because then I'll just get bored and I'll stop playing.
I also feel like adding that this suggestion doesn't deal with farms that actually do cause harm to progression:
AFK Fish Farms can get you lots of experience on top of very useful enchantments like Mending very early into the game. (Although your success with these farms may depend on how your computer deals with power saving.)
Villager Crop Farms can quickly remove the need for food. Now, you can't exactly farm for Golden Apples, but you can easily remove the need for hunger, and this will earn you a lot of emeralds from Farmer Villagers. Of course, the hunger system is easily overpowered by...
Automatic Chicken Farms which take Eggs from a hopper placed underneath some Chickens. The Eggs are thrown onto a slab with lava placed over it. When the chickens grow up, their hitboxes collide with the lava and they drop their meat and feathers into a hopper below the slab. This farm will get you more than enough food to obsolete the hunger system altogether.
First I am going to address the farms mentioned at the bottom.
- AFK Fish Farms are a given; plus, it's not that related to constructive mode, as it's a complete exploit that a lot of players agree needs to be fixed.
- Villager Crop Farms. Food isn't hard to get at all. All you need to do is make a tiny wheat farm, put a fence around it, then lead some cows in it, and boom, you have infinite food.
- The same thing applies for the Chicken Farms.
I really think these farms should be fixed, but they aren't things that are solved by Constructive Mode. They are things that just need to be fixed and shouldn't be kept in any form, which is why they haven't been included in the post.
What harm does farming for Quartz, Iron or Lapis do to the game's progression? Does having chests upon chests of Iron Blocks magically grant you Diamonds, Enchanted books, the Elytra or loads of TNT? Removing farms from the game just means that people interested in building on large scales have to work for extra playtime, because someone thought the game needed to have more "survival". You still need to kill the Ender Dragon with Diamonds that you find.
That's what make the resources valuable. That's what makes it impressive when you make a big building out of them.
This game, to me, is the game that lets you choose another activity if you get bored of what you are currently doing. If you get tired of building, go on an adventure. If you get tired of adventuring, try designing some redstone.
Fair enough.
I don't want to spend endless time mining in order to build something worth my time, because then I'll just get bored and I'll stop playing.
Well, that's not what survival mode is about. Survival mode is about surviving and collecting resources in order to do whatever you want. That's why it's a separate gamemode from creative mode. The reason I am suggesting this new gamemode is that people like you try to play both survival and creative, while others just want to play either survival or creative. Adding features for the people who really enjoy survival and what it's meant to be like would make people that enjoy your mixed playstyle mad, and that's why we need the division. If there was a new gamemode, both playstyles could be satisfied.
That's what make the resources valuable. That's what makes it impressive when you make a big building out of them.
This isn't a competition or a race. If you want to impress people, you could just say "and I did it without farms".
Well, that's not what survival mode is about. Survival mode is about surviving and collecting resources in order to do whatever you want.
This is subjective. I don't care what a tiny piece of in-game text says, I play Survival the way I want.
That's why it's a separate gamemode from creative mode. The reason I am suggesting this new gamemode is that people like you try to play both survival and creative, while others just want to play either survival or creative. Adding features for the people who really enjoy survival and what it's meant to be like would make people that enjoy your mixed playstyle mad, and that's why we need the division. If there was a new gamemode, both playstyles could be satisfied.
No, it just adds more division within the community. Probably a worse division than the combat change. I've stated this at least twice now, and I'll state it again: We don't need a split.
Collect resources as you please. Are you playing singleplayer? You can enjoy playing the game without building a single farm, and nobody will force you to change. Are you on a server where lots of people build farms and it annoys you? Leave and join a new server. A server is all about the community, and if you don't like the community, find one that suits you.
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My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
I really don't see the point of this and I never use farms, at least not besides something that automatically throws chicken eggs into a pen.
The way I see it is that farms and grinders are completely optional, and can in some ways be considered a natural part of the progression system. Once you have gotten Iron and Redstone you can make a Piston Cobblestone generator. If you find a good design and get the materials/Villagers you can make an Iron farm. If you are willing to build the giant structure needed you can make a mob grinder. At a certain point of the game Iron/mob drops become easy to obtain because you have super strong armor and tools that all have Mending on it, but tedious to get in amounts for large scale projects.
The only farm I would want to "fix" is the fishing farm, but that is more because I think it is silly to not have durability lower on a Fishing Rod with repeated casts. I'd rather there be like a 33% chance of losing durability on unsuccessful casts before Unbreaking is calculated. It doesn't have anything to do with those farms specifically, but they would be fixed as a side effect.
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Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
Then why don't we just keep in duplication glitches?
There is a difference between fixing broken code and people finding creative ways to exploit game mechanics functioning how they were supposed to.
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Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
There is a difference between fixing broken code and people finding creative ways to exploit game mechanics functioning how they were supposed to.
This.
All farms are based on combinations of game mechanics that are supposed to exist for a reason. Duplication glitches are, well, glitches.
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My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
Whether you choose to believe this or not. Your reasons are very subjective. What if I want these new mobs but still want the same survival? This is why doing a weird gamemode split thing would be a real dumb choice on Mojang's part. It complicates things for no reason and leaves Mojang to now balance two types of survival. Just no.
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Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
The thing that bothers me most about this post is you seem to think people exploiting the game's physics and exploiting bugs/glitches in the code are the same thing. They aren't. A duplication bug needs to be fixed. That has nothing to do with creative. Even if creative never existed, duplication bugs would still be fixed. Doing things like studying how mob spawns work and making factories to profit off their drops is simply being creative. "But this is survival you're not supposed to be creative". No, you are perfectly allowed to be creative in survival mode. Just because you think that survival mode shouldn't allow automation doesn't mean others do, survival mode is all about earning the stuff instead of having it be given to you via creative mode, and dividing it up because a small portion of the players, you included, think this shouldn't be like that is not okay or reasonable.
Just because you think that survival mode shouldn't allow automation doesn't mean others do, survival mode is all about earning the stuff instead of having it be given to you via creative mode, and dividing it up because a small portion of the players, you included, think this shouldn't be like that is not okay or reasonable.
I don't think all automation should be removed. Just the automation that goes against the game balance. For example, part of the challenge of getting a full beacon is getting all the ores so you can make the blocks. That is completely eliminated if you build a simple iron farm.
1. Survival mode is focused on survival elements, while this mode would be more focused on constructive elements. But how are these elements constructive?Since there would be official farming methods, it would be in-between creative and survival, Farming is far from the only difference between creative and survival mode.2. Farming vs Surviving are (as I explained in earlier responses) two playstyles that are so contrary and conflicting with one another that I think they should be separate. Farming shouldn't exist at all. If it were up to me, I would make all farming impossible. Seperating them would make farming more of an "ok" thing to do in peoples minds, when the opposite should happen.
You're right on the 10% thing- I'll remove that. However, I don't think these would be balanced at all in normal survival, as they would just officialize (I'm going to pretend that that's a word) farming in normal survival. If it is added at all, it would break the game much more if it was seperated into another game mode. Also, the extra mode would be really easy. but, since I completely hate farming, I have come to the conclusion that this shouldn't really be added in the first place. I did say that they were balanced, but I was saying that as if these idols were inevitably going to happen, and we were just deciding what they should be.Oh, and the drop rates aren't really that rare. It would just mean you won't get the idols within the first few days of a world. They are extremely rare for what they do. For example, do you really need a 0.5% chance for a drop from a zombie, which won't even give you many useful things?
Answers in red.
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Remember those versions that minecraft pranked us with? Specifically:
Minecraft 2.0
Minecraft 1.VR-Pre1
Snapshot 15w14a
Minecraft 3D
Those are still downloadable! Watch this video for 2.0:
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
I don't think all automation should be removed. Just the automation that goes against the game balance. For example, part of the challenge of getting a full beacon is getting all the ores so you can make the blocks. That is completely eliminated if you build a simple iron farm.
There's a difference between challenge and chore. Nothing but the Beacon requires that much grind. (Usually you already have about 75% of the iron you need for a full Beacon, and that's because you spent your time caving for Diamonds rather than constantly branch-mining in an attempt to fulfill a quota.)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
There's a difference between challenge and chore. Nothing but the Beacon requires that much grind. (Usually you already have about 75% of the iron you need for a full Beacon, and that's because you spent your time caving for Diamonds rather than constantly branch-mining in an attempt to fulfill a quota.)
Farming shouldn't exist at all. If it were up
to me, I would make all farming impossible. Seperating them would make
farming more of an "ok" thing to do in peoples minds, when the opposite
should happen.
See how there is a split in the community? The only way to satisfy both kinds of people are to have two different modes, or at least some other method of division.
See how there is a split in the community? The only way to satisfy both kinds of people are to have two different modes, or at least some other method of division.
Are you even implying that there is some kind of struggle between farmers and non-farmers? Because I don't see this split outside of this suggestion and any other suggestions relevant to farming. We don't need to fix something that isn't broken. You act like this is a struggle similar to 1.9 Combat. Oh, and speaking of which, does this suggestion really differ from suggestions that add a "1.8 Combat Gamerule"?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
See how there is a split in the community? The only way to satisfy both kinds of people are to have two different modes, or at least some other method of division.
If this new way of farming were added, it would not satisfy most current farmers, since they would have to work A LOT more to get their farms working, and it only works once. I guess they could create a mob farm that gives them these idols, but that really defeats the purpose of the feature in the first place.
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
Some people like mining and some people like exploring, we should make a gamemode for just mining and just exploring and remove them both from survival. Of course people in the community like doing different things, that doesn't mean we separate them in the actual games code
How would this work as a game mode? If you started in constructive, got a resource farm going, and then switched to survival? Would it disappear?
This is just one of the many problems with this new "game mode". I would rather this be a feature added fully to survival mode, disabled via game rule.
I challenge you to name one good reason this needs an entirely different gamemode. Gamemodes change the client, not the server. Let me explain:
--Survival: player has health and limited resources
--Creative: player has no health and unlimited reasources
--Adventure: player has health and no reasources
--Spectator: player acts like a ghost, cannot affect the world or be seen
--Constructive: you can grind reasources now
The world is exactly the same in all the other game modes, but constructive affects the world instead of the player. This isn't a gamemode.
As a result, the focus of the discussion isn't on the actual features (reasources grinding), but the fact that this little thing would get a whole new gamemode.
How would this work as a game mode? If you started in constructive, got a resource farm going, and then switched to survival? Would it disappear?
This is just one of the many problems with this new "game mode". I would rather this be a feature added fully to survival mode, disabled via game rule.
I challenge you to name one good reason this needs an entirely different gamemode. Gamemodes change the client, not the server. Let me explain:
--Survival: player has health and limited resources
--Creative: player has no health and unlimited reasources
--Adventure: player has health and no reasources
--Spectator: player acts like a ghost, cannot affect the world or be seen
--Constructive: you can grind reasources now
The world is exactly the same in all the other game modes, but constructive affects the world instead of the player. This isn't a gamemode.
As a result, the focus of the discussion isn't on the actual features (reasources grinding), but the fact that this little thing would get a whole new gamemode.
The Totems are intended to be like how there is a creative menu. I have even thought about integrating the totems in the player inventory. I am 100% open to better ways of doing all this, though.
I was thinking maybe totems (instead of being an item) could be a little icon in the inventory with a number next to it. You would click on it, and the different totems you have would pop up. You would be able to place a totem this way.
The Totems are intended to be like how there is a creative menu. I have even thought about integrating the totems in the player inventory. I am 100% open to better ways of doing all this, though.
I was thinking maybe totems (instead of being an item) could be a little icon in the inventory with a number next to it. You would click on it, and the different totems you have would pop up. You would be able to place a totem this way.
You should honestly just make it a world type, it'd be so much better and easier and fit much more with what you're going for.
See how there is a split in the community? The only way to satisfy both kinds of people are to have two different modes, or at least some other method of division.
-____-
Satisfy the community or satisfy you? I've never heard anyone else have this problem. Not a single other person. Ever.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
First I am going to address the farms mentioned at the bottom.
- AFK Fish Farms are a given; plus, it's not that related to constructive mode, as it's a complete exploit that a lot of players agree needs to be fixed.
- Villager Crop Farms. Food isn't hard to get at all. All you need to do is make a tiny wheat farm, put a fence around it, then lead some cows in it, and boom, you have infinite food.
- The same thing applies for the Chicken Farms.
I really think these farms should be fixed, but they aren't things that are solved by Constructive Mode. They are things that just need to be fixed and shouldn't be kept in any form, which is why they haven't been included in the post.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
That's what make the resources valuable. That's what makes it impressive when you make a big building out of them.
Fair enough.
Well, that's not what survival mode is about. Survival mode is about surviving and collecting resources in order to do whatever you want. That's why it's a separate gamemode from creative mode. The reason I am suggesting this new gamemode is that people like you try to play both survival and creative, while others just want to play either survival or creative. Adding features for the people who really enjoy survival and what it's meant to be like would make people that enjoy your mixed playstyle mad, and that's why we need the division. If there was a new gamemode, both playstyles could be satisfied.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
This isn't a competition or a race. If you want to impress people, you could just say "and I did it without farms".
This is subjective. I don't care what a tiny piece of in-game text says, I play Survival the way I want.
No, it just adds more division within the community. Probably a worse division than the combat change. I've stated this at least twice now, and I'll state it again: We don't need a split.
Collect resources as you please. Are you playing singleplayer? You can enjoy playing the game without building a single farm, and nobody will force you to change. Are you on a server where lots of people build farms and it annoys you? Leave and join a new server. A server is all about the community, and if you don't like the community, find one that suits you.
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
I really don't see the point of this and I never use farms, at least not besides something that automatically throws chicken eggs into a pen.
The way I see it is that farms and grinders are completely optional, and can in some ways be considered a natural part of the progression system. Once you have gotten Iron and Redstone you can make a Piston Cobblestone generator. If you find a good design and get the materials/Villagers you can make an Iron farm. If you are willing to build the giant structure needed you can make a mob grinder. At a certain point of the game Iron/mob drops become easy to obtain because you have super strong armor and tools that all have Mending on it, but tedious to get in amounts for large scale projects.
The only farm I would want to "fix" is the fishing farm, but that is more because I think it is silly to not have durability lower on a Fishing Rod with repeated casts. I'd rather there be like a 33% chance of losing durability on unsuccessful casts before Unbreaking is calculated. It doesn't have anything to do with those farms specifically, but they would be fixed as a side effect.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Then why don't we just keep in duplication glitches?
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
There is a difference between fixing broken code and people finding creative ways to exploit game mechanics functioning how they were supposed to.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
This.
All farms are based on combinations of game mechanics that are supposed to exist for a reason. Duplication glitches are, well, glitches.
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
Whether you choose to believe this or not. Your reasons are very subjective. What if I want these new mobs but still want the same survival? This is why doing a weird gamemode split thing would be a real dumb choice on Mojang's part. It complicates things for no reason and leaves Mojang to now balance two types of survival. Just no.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
The thing that bothers me most about this post is you seem to think people exploiting the game's physics and exploiting bugs/glitches in the code are the same thing. They aren't. A duplication bug needs to be fixed. That has nothing to do with creative. Even if creative never existed, duplication bugs would still be fixed. Doing things like studying how mob spawns work and making factories to profit off their drops is simply being creative. "But this is survival you're not supposed to be creative". No, you are perfectly allowed to be creative in survival mode. Just because you think that survival mode shouldn't allow automation doesn't mean others do, survival mode is all about earning the stuff instead of having it be given to you via creative mode, and dividing it up because a small portion of the players, you included, think this shouldn't be like that is not okay or reasonable.
I don't think all automation should be removed. Just the automation that goes against the game balance. For example, part of the challenge of getting a full beacon is getting all the ores so you can make the blocks. That is completely eliminated if you build a simple iron farm.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Answers in red.
Remember those versions that minecraft pranked us with? Specifically:
Those are still downloadable! Watch this video for 2.0:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQdu9LKAdIU
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
15w14a is on this link:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/15w14a
1.RV-Pre1 is here:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/1.RV-Pre1
Minecraft 3D is here:
https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Java_Edition_3D_Shareware_v1.34
There's a difference between challenge and chore. Nothing but the Beacon requires that much grind. (Usually you already have about 75% of the iron you need for a full Beacon, and that's because you spent your time caving for Diamonds rather than constantly branch-mining in an attempt to fulfill a quota.)
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
See how there is a split in the community? The only way to satisfy both kinds of people are to have two different modes, or at least some other method of division.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Are you even implying that there is some kind of struggle between farmers and non-farmers? Because I don't see this split outside of this suggestion and any other suggestions relevant to farming. We don't need to fix something that isn't broken. You act like this is a struggle similar to 1.9 Combat. Oh, and speaking of which, does this suggestion really differ from suggestions that add a "1.8 Combat Gamerule"?
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
If this new way of farming were added, it would not satisfy most current farmers, since they would have to work A LOT more to get their farms working, and it only works once. I guess they could create a mob farm that gives them these idols, but that really defeats the purpose of the feature in the first place.
Remember those versions that minecraft pranked us with? Specifically:
Those are still downloadable! Watch this video for 2.0:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQdu9LKAdIU
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
15w14a is on this link:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/15w14a
1.RV-Pre1 is here:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/1.RV-Pre1
Minecraft 3D is here:
https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Java_Edition_3D_Shareware_v1.34
Some people like mining and some people like exploring, we should make a gamemode for just mining and just exploring and remove them both from survival. Of course people in the community like doing different things, that doesn't mean we separate them in the actual games code
How would this work as a game mode? If you started in constructive, got a resource farm going, and then switched to survival? Would it disappear?
This is just one of the many problems with this new "game mode". I would rather this be a feature added fully to survival mode, disabled via game rule.
I challenge you to name one good reason this needs an entirely different gamemode. Gamemodes change the client, not the server. Let me explain:
--Survival: player has health and limited resources
--Creative: player has no health and unlimited reasources
--Adventure: player has health and no reasources
--Spectator: player acts like a ghost, cannot affect the world or be seen
--Constructive: you can grind reasources now
The world is exactly the same in all the other game modes, but constructive affects the world instead of the player. This isn't a gamemode.
As a result, the focus of the discussion isn't on the actual features (reasources grinding), but the fact that this little thing would get a whole new gamemode.
The Totems are intended to be like how there is a creative menu. I have even thought about integrating the totems in the player inventory. I am 100% open to better ways of doing all this, though.
I was thinking maybe totems (instead of being an item) could be a little icon in the inventory with a number next to it. You would click on it, and the different totems you have would pop up. You would be able to place a totem this way.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
You should honestly just make it a world type, it'd be so much better and easier and fit much more with what you're going for.
-____-
Satisfy the community or satisfy you? I've never heard anyone else have this problem. Not a single other person. Ever.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048