The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
10/25/2012
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Shields were a great introduction in the game.
It gave the players a chance to explore more expansively with lesser danger to themselves.
In fact, it was the only reason I began playing Minecraft survival (ever since my purchase back in 2011, I've been playing creative. I'm guilty about it).
I was afraid of projectiles flying everywhere, and the dangers of CQC when exploring caves.
Now, survival is much more easy thanks to the shield. And by much more, I mean too much.
Shields nullify all kinds of damage, even explosions. And explosions barely damage the shields, too.
I think the best thing to do is to introduce a system in the shields, just like the weapons themselves.
Maybe have them enchantable? Such as having more knockback when enemies attack, have greater explosive resistance, unbreakable X, etc.
Or maybe have a 50% chance of nullifying damage and the other 50% reducing the damage to 1/3 of the original damage?
Or maybe have the shields break much (much) more easily?
Or maybe parrying? Engage the shield right before enemies attack, and guarantee damage nullification, as well as avoiding shield damage (and maybe pushing enemies away further). Maybe projectile reflection can be a feature of parrying as well.
Being overall bulky, slowing your movement, blocking 1/4 of your view, and taking up your offhand make up for their tactility in my opinion. Also taking up iron, which is pretty valuable. The ability to negate the projectile/explosion damage relies on your own reaction speed, so it's not a guaranteed block & there's always a chance you could miss.
I would really, really like to see them be made enchantable though. I know knockback and flame can be added manually, but those enchantments and maybe thorns would be really useful on a shield. but THENNNNN it could get overpowered.
Also, like most games, Minecraft is meant to be played on hardmode. Anything less is just giving yourself a break.
Being overall bulky, slowing your movement, blocking 1/4 of your view, and taking up your offhand make up for their tactility in my opinion. Also taking up iron, which is pretty valuable. The ability to negate the projectile/explosion damage relies on your own reaction speed, so it's not a guaranteed block & there's always a chance you could miss.
I would really, really like to see them be made enchantable though. I know knockback and flame can be added manually, but those enchantments and maybe thorns would be really useful on a shield. but THENNNNN it could get overpowered.
Also, like most games, Minecraft is meant to be played on hardmode. Anything less is just giving yourself a break.
Slowing your movement is already a very basic form of shielding. And it's not even disadvantageous, since you can stay in a corner forever and block all enemy attacks with ease until your shield breaks (which is a very, very long time).
Blocking 1/4 of the view is not even that much compared to real shields. In fact, shields block your entire view irl.
And there is no viable use for the offhand besides the shield, anyways.
With all this in mind, I still think it's very unbalanced.
And Minecraft in survival seems hard enough. Like Dark Souls, you lose everything (especially XP) until go back to where you died.
To add to that, if you don't go back in time, your items disappear. Your souls in Dark Souls never disappear.
I wholeheartedly agree that a shield's durability is far too great, but otherwise, no, I don't believe shields are "over powered." In fact, once one progresses to the point where one wears enchanted diamond gear at all times, shields become unnecessary at best. At that point, most players use a bow in the off hand instead since damage from mobs isn't much of a threat at all.
Without a shield and with only iron armor or less, skeleton are extremely dangerous.
I will grant that I don't think arrows should ricochet off shields—and they didn't until 15w37a.
Instead of just iron, I'd like to see wood, gold, iron and diamond shields, the only difference in each being durability. I think the current (iron) shield's durability is appropriate for a diamond shield. Shields can be enchanted with Mending and Unbreaking, but I never do. One iron ingot and a few wood planks for extreme longevity make them disposable.
1.9-pre1 Increased shield durability from 181 to 337. If iron shields return to a durability of 181 and diamond is given 337, that would mean gold would have a durability of 97 and wood, 51. Such a progression by material type would be comparable to boots.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My short story-like journals; quick-and-easy reads:
Iron is so easy to get it is nearly worthless; in a recent world I mined an average of more than 200 iron per hour over 466 hours (a total of 93,786 ore mined, and even more iron was collected from chests; I used so little that the iron I stored in blocks is greater than the iron I mined) - and while I have not really played in newer versions I've found it is even easier to collect (ores are more common in newer versions, largely due to an increase in the size of all veins by 1 in 1.8, and the changes to caves in 1.7 made them easier to explore since they are less complex). In fact, I don't even see anvils in villages (replacing the double stone slab in blacksmiths) as being unbalanced - and that's 31 times more iron than a shield requires (plus iron ingots are more useful since you can make whatever you need with them).
As for shields, they are totally unnecessary to me; while I play on Normal difficulty in 1.6.4 I could play on Hard in 1.9+ and by upgrading my armor, which is far from maxed-out, more than offset not just the 50% increase in damage but the addition of armor penetration - even from creeper explosions (other damage sources are much less significant; a skeleton arrow only penetrates one armor point when in full diamond, 2 in other armor, with only a slight increase in damage between Easy and Hard). I've always carried a bow just for skeletons (I rarely use them on other mobs) and even then I often melee attack them around a corner or other barrier, such that a bow lasts for more than a month between repairs (I would not have any problem if Mending did not work on them at all). Note that since 1.9 they no longer shoot faster as you get closer, though they also no longer deal less damage, but it can be easier to get right up to them and you can even see them charging their bows.
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
There are many viable uses for the offhand besides the shield.
Totem of undying. You can't call saving your life an "unviable use".
Sword bow tactic. You can shoot a bow while holding a sword, and you don't have to fumble with the scroll wheel or number keys.
Food weapon tactic. If you are low on health in the middle of a fight, having a golden apple in offhand could be very useful.
Build Mine tactic. If you are mining, and you fall or something, it can be very helpful to be able to place a block that could break your fall.
Build Build tactic. Having 2 types of blocks in your hand at once can decrease building times by a lot.
You can compare the shield to elytra in this way. The shield is balanced just as well as elytra.
Using multiple types of arrows: Holding the Bow in the offhand and selecting arrows in the hotbar (or vice versa) will prioritize those arrows over others in your inventory, allowing you to switch arrow types on the fly.
Mining Torch tactic: particularly if all you're doing is digging 1x2 tunnels.
Plus the offhand is a pretty good spot to keep a stack of rockets when you're flying. (unless you're using the bow)
That all sounds skill based, your ability to dodge attacks and scout for iron negate your need for a shield.
I've seen many YouTube videos where even beginners get a load of iron within minutes of entering a cave; for example, here somebody gets 39 iron ore in just 6 minutes (starting at 8:00; this is also from the time they started a new world) from the sort of small cave you commonly find near the surface - that's close to double my average hourly rate and half the rate at which I collect all ores and without any of the enchanted diamond gear (Eff V pickaxe, etc) that I use (the amount of iron in any cave is partly down to luck but the point is that it is too easy to get - and you need just one for a shield):
This guys already playing way harder than most people do, the way he immediately starts looking for seeds in the grass. I play pretty leisurely, and most of my iron ends up going to armor and an anvil.
I really liked Sharpe103's ideas about durability!
Shields were a great introduction in the game.
It gave the players a chance to explore more expansively with lesser danger to themselves.
In fact, it was the only reason I began playing Minecraft survival (ever since my purchase back in 2011, I've been playing creative. I'm guilty about it).
I was afraid of projectiles flying everywhere, and the dangers of CQC when exploring caves.
Now, survival is much more easy thanks to the shield. And by much more, I mean too much.
Shields nullify all kinds of damage, even explosions. And explosions barely damage the shields, too.
I think the best thing to do is to introduce a system in the shields, just like the weapons themselves.
Maybe have them enchantable? Such as having more knockback when enemies attack, have greater explosive resistance, unbreakable X, etc.
Or maybe have a 50% chance of nullifying damage and the other 50% reducing the damage to 1/3 of the original damage?
Or maybe have the shields break much (much) more easily?
Or maybe parrying? Engage the shield right before enemies attack, and guarantee damage nullification, as well as avoiding shield damage (and maybe pushing enemies away further). Maybe projectile reflection can be a feature of parrying as well.
Being overall bulky, slowing your movement, blocking 1/4 of your view, and taking up your offhand make up for their tactility in my opinion. Also taking up iron, which is pretty valuable. The ability to negate the projectile/explosion damage relies on your own reaction speed, so it's not a guaranteed block & there's always a chance you could miss.
I would really, really like to see them be made enchantable though. I know knockback and flame can be added manually, but those enchantments and maybe thorns would be really useful on a shield. but THENNNNN it could get overpowered.
Also, like most games, Minecraft is meant to be played on hardmode. Anything less is just giving yourself a break.
Slowing your movement is already a very basic form of shielding. And it's not even disadvantageous, since you can stay in a corner forever and block all enemy attacks with ease until your shield breaks (which is a very, very long time).
Blocking 1/4 of the view is not even that much compared to real shields. In fact, shields block your entire view irl.
And there is no viable use for the offhand besides the shield, anyways.
With all this in mind, I still think it's very unbalanced.
And Minecraft in survival seems hard enough. Like Dark Souls, you lose everything (especially XP) until go back to where you died.
To add to that, if you don't go back in time, your items disappear. Your souls in Dark Souls never disappear.
I wholeheartedly agree that a shield's durability is far too great, but otherwise, no, I don't believe shields are "over powered." In fact, once one progresses to the point where one wears enchanted diamond gear at all times, shields become unnecessary at best. At that point, most players use a bow in the off hand instead since damage from mobs isn't much of a threat at all.
Without a shield and with only iron armor or less, skeleton are extremely dangerous.
I will grant that I don't think arrows should ricochet off shields—and they didn't until 15w37a.
Instead of just iron, I'd like to see wood, gold, iron and diamond shields, the only difference in each being durability. I think the current (iron) shield's durability is appropriate for a diamond shield. Shields can be enchanted with Mending and Unbreaking, but I never do. One iron ingot and a few wood planks for extreme longevity make them disposable.
1.9-pre1 Increased shield durability from 181 to 337. If iron shields return to a durability of 181 and diamond is given 337, that would mean gold would have a durability of 97 and wood, 51. Such a progression by material type would be comparable to boots.
My short story-like journals; quick-and-easy reads:
My Quest for Elytra Complete! (Pic Intense, End-Game Spoilers)
[Journal & Pics] After a Year and a Half, I Finally Found a Jungle
FrozenCore: Hardcore Death; 3/20/15 to 5/3/15; Eight Weeks on a Frozen World in Pictures
Iron is so easy to get it is nearly worthless; in a recent world I mined an average of more than 200 iron per hour over 466 hours (a total of 93,786 ore mined, and even more iron was collected from chests; I used so little that the iron I stored in blocks is greater than the iron I mined) - and while I have not really played in newer versions I've found it is even easier to collect (ores are more common in newer versions, largely due to an increase in the size of all veins by 1 in 1.8, and the changes to caves in 1.7 made them easier to explore since they are less complex). In fact, I don't even see anvils in villages (replacing the double stone slab in blacksmiths) as being unbalanced - and that's 31 times more iron than a shield requires (plus iron ingots are more useful since you can make whatever you need with them).
As for shields, they are totally unnecessary to me; while I play on Normal difficulty in 1.6.4 I could play on Hard in 1.9+ and by upgrading my armor, which is far from maxed-out, more than offset not just the 50% increase in damage but the addition of armor penetration - even from creeper explosions (other damage sources are much less significant; a skeleton arrow only penetrates one armor point when in full diamond, 2 in other armor, with only a slight increase in damage between Easy and Hard). I've always carried a bow just for skeletons (I rarely use them on other mobs) and even then I often melee attack them around a corner or other barrier, such that a bow lasts for more than a month between repairs (I would not have any problem if Mending did not work on them at all). Note that since 1.9 they no longer shoot faster as you get closer, though they also no longer deal less damage, but it can be easier to get right up to them and you can even see them charging their bows.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
There are many viable uses for the offhand besides the shield.
You can compare the shield to elytra in this way. The shield is balanced just as well as elytra.
Remember those versions that minecraft pranked us with? Specifically:
Those are still downloadable! Watch this video for 2.0:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQdu9LKAdIU
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
15w14a is on this link:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/15w14a
1.RV-Pre1 is here:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/1.RV-Pre1
Minecraft 3D is here:
https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Java_Edition_3D_Shareware_v1.34
Using multiple types of arrows: Holding the Bow in the offhand and selecting arrows in the hotbar (or vice versa) will prioritize those arrows over others in your inventory, allowing you to switch arrow types on the fly.
Mining Torch tactic: particularly if all you're doing is digging 1x2 tunnels.
Plus the offhand is a pretty good spot to keep a stack of rockets when you're flying. (unless you're using the bow)
@TheMasterCaver
That all sounds skill based, your ability to dodge attacks and scout for iron negate your need for a shield.
I've seen many YouTube videos where even beginners get a load of iron within minutes of entering a cave; for example, here somebody gets 39 iron ore in just 6 minutes (starting at 8:00; this is also from the time they started a new world) from the sort of small cave you commonly find near the surface - that's close to double my average hourly rate and half the rate at which I collect all ores and without any of the enchanted diamond gear (Eff V pickaxe, etc) that I use (the amount of iron in any cave is partly down to luck but the point is that it is too easy to get - and you need just one for a shield):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
This guys already playing way harder than most people do, the way he immediately starts looking for seeds in the grass. I play pretty leisurely, and most of my iron ends up going to armor and an anvil.
I really liked Sharpe103's ideas about durability!