Yeah, I was way off with my maths, and even my prediction because I had used a really wrong formula. I totally understand what you mean, but because the OP wasn't really detailed, I had assumed that "more complex recipes" implied "not enough recipes" or "running out of unique recipes". It was a fault on my part for assuming that, but the OP should have been more specific on what his idea actually was. Anyways, the number you suggested IS large enough that yeah there will be a majority of 'irregular' recipes, but large numbers like those also constitute a large number of 'regular' recipes as well, most likely way more than we ever need.
Besides the point of "running out of recipes", I still do not support this suggestion because I see no need for an expanded crafting table for the reasons I've already mentioned. We can already make really complex recipes if we want, and we can also already have tiered crafting such that you must craft some things to make one item that go into making a final product. The crafting is already complicated enough and the variations of what patterns you can make is large is all my point was as to why I did not support this suggestion.
Ok, So That would be like a memory boost practice and would speed up the mind of an average minecraft player. And i can easily think of a 5x5 grid. Super Advanced!
I love this idea! It would be a great way to craft new colored stone. Such as cobblestone with a wide variety of colors!
Colorful cobblestones yeah many players really think about that!
Advance crafting is too futuristic u would rather settle for the Mods no more crafting juz /give @player
all u need no more crafting,brewing,cookin'.
Ok, So That would be like a memory boost practice and would speed up the mind of an average minecraft player. And i can easily think of a 5x5 grid. Super Advanced!
[sees another thread from you about adding missions]
Hmmmmmmm...
because the OP wasn't really detailed, I had assumed that "more complex recipes" implied "not enough recipes" or "running out of unique recipes". It was a fault on my part for assuming that, but the OP should have been more specific on what his idea actually was.
"But What For New Blocks, Which would be more complex, like banner shapes?" is fairly specific.
Anyways, the number you suggested IS large enough that yeah there will be a majority of 'irregular' recipes, but large numbers like those also constitute a large number of 'regular' recipes as well, most likely way more than we ever need.
That's irrelevant.
Besides the point of "running out of recipes", I still do not support this suggestion because I see no need for an expanded crafting table for the reasons I've already mentioned.
Hold on. You open with "besides the point of running out of recipes" - so what are these "reasons I've already mentioned" you speak of? You mentioned not one other reason.
We can already make really complex recipes if we want, and we can also already have tiered crafting such that you must craft some things to make one item that go into making a final product. The crafting is already complicated enough and the variations of what patterns you can make is large is all my point was as to why I did not support this suggestion.
Tiered crafting doesn't work for more complex banner patterns, which was the specific example the OP gave.
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"But What For New Blocks, Which would be more complex, like banner shapes?" is fairly specific.
I don't see the point of that argument. That isn't really specific at all actually because we can already do banner shapes with our current crafting table and I don't see it as that much of a hassle. Maybe he meant more banner shapes? Who knows? By speculation, maybe he means "new" banner shapes, but he never mentions anything about new banner shapes. This just seems like it would make banner shapes and patterns a lot more difficult to do and make banners more resource intensive. As I said before, our crafting system is already complex enough yet the OP wants to make it even more complex.
That's irrelevant.
No, not really. It was a rebuttal to your claim that the majority of the permutations would be 'irregular', which in some sense, I did agree with you, but in another sense I stated that there is enough 'regular' recipes for us to not run out of 'regular' recipes any time soon. All in all, I think this is a valid claim to not support this suggestion considering I rather not have that amount of possible crafting recipes increase. It just makes everything way to hard to manage in which crafting will just because very tedious trying to arrange a massive grid.
Hold on. You open with "besides the point of running out of recipes" - so what are these "reasons I've already mentioned" you speak of? You mentioned not one other reason.
Have you been reading my replies? I've been providing multiple reasons for not supporting this suggestion in all of my posts as of right now. I don't think I need to list them out for you for you to see. I may have stuck to a primary reason to not support this suggestion, but I have backed up my reasoning with other examples.
Tiered crafting doesn't work for more complex banner patterns, which was the specific example the OP gave.
I do not consider that to be a "specific example", or rather it is not a strong enough point for me to want to support this suggestion. We can already make banner shapes in our current 3x3 crafting grid and it is already complicated enough to remember all of the crafting patterns for all of the banner patterns. If the OP wants more complex crafting recipes by expanding the grid, he is making it WAY too complex than it needs to be. I, myself, always have to look at the wiki to remember the crafting recipes for the banner patterns. Oh. . . and banner patterns was the ONLY example the OP gave. That isn't enough supporting detail to his claim for me to want to support this. If I saw some actual use for this and it actually appealed to me, then yes, I'd support it.
Eh, this suggestion is redundant. If something needed an increased crafting table size; it'd be better accomplished by rendering the recipe into 2+ components.
If you have a recipe that needs 12 ingredients; it's better to make 1/2 with 6 ingredients, 1/2 with the other 6, then craft both together into a super-craft. We already do this when baking a cake; just extend it out to whatever needs it.
No, not really. It was a rebuttal to your claim that the majority of the permutations would be 'irregular',
Which they would be. Think of it this way: every time you add a new item to the game, the number of permutations more than doubles. That means if there is just one item that will never be used in a recipe (say, a villager spawn egg), more than half of the possible permutations will never happen. Now extend that to all of the items that will never be included in crafting recipes. All spawn eggs, barrier blocks, mob spawners, lit redstone lamps, extended pistons, need I continue?
which in some sense, I did agree with you, but in another sense I stated that there is enough 'regular' recipes for us to not run out of 'regular' recipes any time soon. All in all, I think this is a valid claim to not support this suggestion considering I rather not have that amount of possible crafting recipes increase. It just makes everything way to hard to manage in which crafting will just because very tedious trying to arrange a massive grid.
The reason why I said the point is irrelevant is because plausible recipes make up such a vastly minute percentage of all possible permutations that citing the number of permutations is entirely pointless. Yes, there are enough 'regular recipes' that we won't run out. We went over this a hundred times, but allow me to reiterate the one hundred and first time: this suggestion has nothing to do with running out of recipes. It never did and it never will. Nobody is making the point you are rebutting. There are a whole set of other reasons why people support this which you need to consider to make any kind of judgement.
Have you been reading my replies? I've been providing multiple reasons for not supporting this suggestion in all of my posts as of right now. I don't think I need to list them out for you for you to see. I may have stuck to a primary reason to not support this suggestion, but I have backed up my reasoning with other examples.
I'll check again.
Your first post: we'll never run out of recipes.
Your second post: replying to me to say that there are thousands of plausible recipes even with the bulk being implausible.
Your third post: "Besides the point of "running out of recipes", I still do not support this suggestion because I see no need for an expanded crafting table for the reasons I've already mentioned."
No, I can't find them. Yes, I read your replies. Help if you can.
I do not consider that to be a "specific example",
Whether you would agree with my precise wording isn't really a concern of mine. You're nitpicking. Would you like it if I don't use the word 'specific'? If I just called it an example, would that somehow be more agreeable?
or rather it is not a strong enough point for me to want to support this suggestion.
Fine, but you didn't address it, you just repeated how we won't run out of recipes any time soon. Which isn't what anybody was saying.
We can already make banner shapes in our current 3x3 crafting grid and it is already complicated enough to remember all of the crafting patterns for all of the banner patterns. If the OP wants more complex crafting recipes by expanding the grid, he is making it WAY too complex than it needs to be. I, myself, always have to look at the wiki to remember the crafting recipes for the banner patterns.
The implication is that new banner patterns would require a larger grid to be less confusing, because the shapes they imprint on the banners are more complex.
Oh. . . and banner patterns was the ONLY example the OP gave. That isn't enough supporting detail to his claim for me to want to support this. If I saw some actual use for this and it actually appealed to me, then yes, I'd support it.
Honestly, it's not my concern whether or not you support this. That's not what we're talking about. What I'm talking about is you addressing a completely different point than the one that was made.
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Lets stay on topic please. We're getting too sidetracked quibbling over each other's feedback and not discussing the idea.
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Sounds like something that could be super tedious. This would just bring painful memorization to these blown up crafting grids... The 3x3 works perfectly because it allows more recipes and is simple enough all at the same time as to not make crafting more work than it needs to be. Adding anything higher to that just makes thing awkward and burdens the player with more recipes to think about.
Having "tiers" of crafting tables is way way way way way worse. Why would you want that?
I agree. I was just thinking about this a while ago.
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I want to make a metallurgy mod that contains ratios and percentages of metal to make an alloy. A bigger crafting grid would allow for percentage based crafting.
The mod uses a 5x5 crafting grid for many of it's recipes, and it is very painful to use. It doesn't help that the items in most of the crafting recipes are from the mod itself, but it gets worse when almost every slot is a different item. Minecraft has only a few non-symmetrical recipes, and none with 9 different items within the same recipe.
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If you wanted a better crafting interface, the console verison supprisingly has a really good one for banners and fireworks. You just select what you want rather than having to memorise everything and the interface does it for you. You could just have a clickable tab on the side of the UI which changes it between standard, banner or fireworks crafting. But who needs bigger crafting interfaces, theres aready mods which have giant crafting interfaces for high leveled items.
Yeah, I was way off with my maths, and even my prediction because I had used a really wrong formula. I totally understand what you mean, but because the OP wasn't really detailed, I had assumed that "more complex recipes" implied "not enough recipes" or "running out of unique recipes". It was a fault on my part for assuming that, but the OP should have been more specific on what his idea actually was. Anyways, the number you suggested IS large enough that yeah there will be a majority of 'irregular' recipes, but large numbers like those also constitute a large number of 'regular' recipes as well, most likely way more than we ever need.
Besides the point of "running out of recipes", I still do not support this suggestion because I see no need for an expanded crafting table for the reasons I've already mentioned. We can already make really complex recipes if we want, and we can also already have tiered crafting such that you must craft some things to make one item that go into making a final product. The crafting is already complicated enough and the variations of what patterns you can make is large is all my point was as to why I did not support this suggestion.
Ok, So That would be like a memory boost practice and would speed up the mind of an average minecraft player. And i can easily think of a 5x5 grid. Super Advanced!
Colorful cobblestones yeah many players really think about that!
Advance crafting is too futuristic u would rather settle for the Mods no more crafting juz /give @player
all u need no more crafting,brewing,cookin'.
[sees another thread from you about adding missions]
Hmmmmmmm...
Please explain how this can be so advanced.
"But What For New Blocks, Which would be more complex, like banner shapes?" is fairly specific.
That's irrelevant.
Hold on. You open with "besides the point of running out of recipes" - so what are these "reasons I've already mentioned" you speak of? You mentioned not one other reason.
Tiered crafting doesn't work for more complex banner patterns, which was the specific example the OP gave.
I don't see the point of that argument. That isn't really specific at all actually because we can already do banner shapes with our current crafting table and I don't see it as that much of a hassle. Maybe he meant more banner shapes? Who knows? By speculation, maybe he means "new" banner shapes, but he never mentions anything about new banner shapes. This just seems like it would make banner shapes and patterns a lot more difficult to do and make banners more resource intensive. As I said before, our crafting system is already complex enough yet the OP wants to make it even more complex.
No, not really. It was a rebuttal to your claim that the majority of the permutations would be 'irregular', which in some sense, I did agree with you, but in another sense I stated that there is enough 'regular' recipes for us to not run out of 'regular' recipes any time soon. All in all, I think this is a valid claim to not support this suggestion considering I rather not have that amount of possible crafting recipes increase. It just makes everything way to hard to manage in which crafting will just because very tedious trying to arrange a massive grid.
Have you been reading my replies? I've been providing multiple reasons for not supporting this suggestion in all of my posts as of right now. I don't think I need to list them out for you for you to see. I may have stuck to a primary reason to not support this suggestion, but I have backed up my reasoning with other examples.
I do not consider that to be a "specific example", or rather it is not a strong enough point for me to want to support this suggestion. We can already make banner shapes in our current 3x3 crafting grid and it is already complicated enough to remember all of the crafting patterns for all of the banner patterns. If the OP wants more complex crafting recipes by expanding the grid, he is making it WAY too complex than it needs to be. I, myself, always have to look at the wiki to remember the crafting recipes for the banner patterns. Oh. . . and banner patterns was the ONLY example the OP gave. That isn't enough supporting detail to his claim for me to want to support this. If I saw some actual use for this and it actually appealed to me, then yes, I'd support it.
Eh, this suggestion is redundant. If something needed an increased crafting table size; it'd be better accomplished by rendering the recipe into 2+ components.
If you have a recipe that needs 12 ingredients; it's better to make 1/2 with 6 ingredients, 1/2 with the other 6, then craft both together into a super-craft. We already do this when baking a cake; just extend it out to whatever needs it.
No support.
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Which they would be. Think of it this way: every time you add a new item to the game, the number of permutations more than doubles. That means if there is just one item that will never be used in a recipe (say, a villager spawn egg), more than half of the possible permutations will never happen. Now extend that to all of the items that will never be included in crafting recipes. All spawn eggs, barrier blocks, mob spawners, lit redstone lamps, extended pistons, need I continue?
The reason why I said the point is irrelevant is because plausible recipes make up such a vastly minute percentage of all possible permutations that citing the number of permutations is entirely pointless. Yes, there are enough 'regular recipes' that we won't run out. We went over this a hundred times, but allow me to reiterate the one hundred and first time: this suggestion has nothing to do with running out of recipes. It never did and it never will. Nobody is making the point you are rebutting. There are a whole set of other reasons why people support this which you need to consider to make any kind of judgement.
I'll check again.
Your first post: we'll never run out of recipes.
Your second post: replying to me to say that there are thousands of plausible recipes even with the bulk being implausible.
Your third post: "Besides the point of "running out of recipes", I still do not support this suggestion because I see no need for an expanded crafting table for the reasons I've already mentioned."
No, I can't find them. Yes, I read your replies. Help if you can.
Whether you would agree with my precise wording isn't really a concern of mine. You're nitpicking. Would you like it if I don't use the word 'specific'? If I just called it an example, would that somehow be more agreeable?
Fine, but you didn't address it, you just repeated how we won't run out of recipes any time soon. Which isn't what anybody was saying.
The implication is that new banner patterns would require a larger grid to be less confusing, because the shapes they imprint on the banners are more complex.
Honestly, it's not my concern whether or not you support this. That's not what we're talking about. What I'm talking about is you addressing a completely different point than the one that was made.
Lets stay on topic please. We're getting too sidetracked quibbling over each other's feedback and not discussing the idea.
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I agree. I was just thinking about this a while ago.
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I want to make a metallurgy mod that contains ratios and percentages of metal to make an alloy. A bigger crafting grid would allow for percentage based crafting.
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Have you ever played with the mod, NuclearCraft?
The mod uses a 5x5 crafting grid for many of it's recipes, and it is very painful to use. It doesn't help that the items in most of the crafting recipes are from the mod itself, but it gets worse when almost every slot is a different item. Minecraft has only a few non-symmetrical recipes, and none with 9 different items within the same recipe.
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
If you wanted a better crafting interface, the console verison supprisingly has a really good one for banners and fireworks. You just select what you want rather than having to memorise everything and the interface does it for you. You could just have a clickable tab on the side of the UI which changes it between standard, banner or fireworks crafting. But who needs bigger crafting interfaces, theres aready mods which have giant crafting interfaces for high leveled items.
Sadly, no support.