The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
2/3/2016
Posts:
118
Member Details
Hello Bartin here with another epic Minecraft "idea"
I'll preface by saying that I know the current technology allowing for such a suggestion is limited at best... but there is always Minecraft 2.0 :2
The current state of villagers is mediocre... however it's not just the depth of design and generality of the villagers that is flawed, it is also the spawn mechanics and lack of background (does anyone remember when they were called "testificates"?)
Ideally: If I were to implement an actually good "villager" system, I would instead design it around being a replacement for players in single-player/low-populated servers...
AKA, dynamically generated npcs that perform similar tasks to other players in the overworld... so rather than merely spawning villagers in villages randomly in key biomes, they would actually walk around the map, doing tasks specific to whatever their spawn "class" was... of course they would return to their village as well...
They would have a few new features in order to make them decent "substitutes" for players:
Randomized avatars (their skin perhaps has an emblem matching a banner at their home village**), randomized names... these would serve the purpose of making the world look more populated... Interestingly, these villagers have "skills" that they themselves can train (No, this is not a suggestion for skills in Minecraft... these are merely variables inherent to the villager that determine the equipment it uses as they change over time)... there is also permadeath for these villagers thus emulating a "rise-to-fame" situation where each world could have well-known villagers who've managed to survive all the way to max skill levels (perhaps they now carry enchanted diamond gear and run around with the effects of speed potion or on horses)
Also, killing a high-skilled villager should not drop its armor as the anatomy of villagers is different from the player :2 and so wouldn't fit the player-character...
However as I said previously, this is a very technologically demanding idea and is perhaps infeasible... well regardless...
**I didn't want to make this a standalone suggestion because of how small and trivial it is, but I do think villages should spawn with "randomized" banners that are unique to their village (perhaps depending on the biome, the banner is chosen from a different "class" of banners... a desert village could never have the same banner as a plains village, etc)... this would grant villages a greater feeling of "life" :2
I am going to ignore how technically complicated such villagers would be and talk about just your idea.
Minecraft is a game that revolves around your ability to decide how things go. Making villagers do things that manipulate the world is a nuisance, at best, and deeply exploitable, at worst.
In most other games, these extremely complex villagers would be a welcome addition, filling the world with intelligent and busy life. In Minecraft, players would turn them into machines.
And even if the above were not true, your suggestion lacks details. What kinds of villagers are there? What skills can they train in? What are their functions, and how do they fulfill it? How do they interact with each other? Do they drop anything? How do different villages react to each other? Do villages spread according to what you envision? How does any of this change how you interact with them?
In most other games, these extremely complex villagers would be a welcome addition, filling the world with intelligent and busy life. In Minecraft, players would turn them into machines.
I'd like to point out that I originally thought, "This might work, but only as a mod." Now, with your statement, I can only reiterate that; this kind of thing could only ever be acceptable as a mod.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
2/3/2016
Posts:
118
Member Details
"I am going to ignore how technically complicated such villagers would be and talk about just your idea."
Such lines of comment were addressed in the 2nd and last sentences of my post
"Making villagers do things that manipulate the world is a nuisance, at best, and deeply exploitable, at worst"
Villagers in the current version of the game can already manipulate the world by planting crops if you admit here that this is, as you claim, deeply exploitable, I won't hold you to any doublespeak :2 but I do not believe that such manipulations are a nuisance... elaborate
"In Minecraft, players would turn them into machines"
So the problem isn't with the idea, it is with the players of Minecraft?
"What kinds of villagers are there? What skills can they train in? What are their functions, and how do they fulfill it? How do they interact with each other? Do they drop anything? How do different villages react to each other? Do villages spread according to what you envision? How does any of this change how you interact with them?"
I didn't go into great detail because, as I explain in my "original post" (OP), it is a very technically demanding concept and further details are perhaps just more "dreams in a cloud"... that is to say, I am more curious about the community response to such a type of suggestion...
Regardless... I could sell a few hypotheticals to you;
Types... the standard villager types still exist (farmer, blacksmith, etc) but their depth is better explored... a new type would perhaps be the "player replacement" I describe in the "original post" (OP)... I am not sure if this should be a new type or just a "subclass" of one of the preexisting types :2
Skills... I talk about "skills" here as perhaps a variable inherit to the villager's "code"... for example, a villager with a high "woodcutting" skill may be found with a diamond axe, etc
Interaction... the goal is to make them feel like they are a part of a "living" world and feeling a sense of progress when you return to a village and see a familiar villager wearing a set of higher-tier gear :2
Drops... well, villagers currently do not drop the stock of their trades :2 and I don't think they should drop armor due to anatomy differences... perhaps tools then?
I also added a small footnote to the "original post" (OP) of the thread
Unless you're talking about the Minecraft Forums moderators :2 heh, we're all good friends
That's what he was talking about, I'm also looking around for them.
I already know what this thread is trying to do, but I'm just gonna give a good ol' 'no support' since there should never be an NPC mob that plays the game for you. Something strange tells me you knew that beforehand? But uhh, yeah.
A very epicly epic no support -__-
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
"I am going to ignore how technically complicated such villagers would be and talk about just your idea."
Such lines of comment were addressed in the 2nd and last sentences of my post
"Making villagers do things that manipulate the world is a nuisance, at best, and deeply exploitable, at worst"
Villagers in the current version of the game can already manipulate the world by planting crops if you admit here that this is, as you claim, deeply exploitable, I won't hold you to any doublespeak :2 but I do not believe that such manipulations are a nuisance... elaborate
"In Minecraft, players would turn them into machines"
So the problem isn't with the idea, it is with the players of Minecraft?
"What kinds of villagers are there? What skills can they train in? What are their functions, and how do they fulfill it? How do they interact with each other? Do they drop anything? How do different villages react to each other? Do villages spread according to what you envision? How does any of this change how you interact with them?"
I didn't go into great detail because, as I explain in my "original post" (OP), it is a very technically demanding concept and further details are perhaps just more "dreams in a cloud"... that is to say, I am more curious about the community response to such a type of suggestion...
Regardless ... I could sell a few hypotheticals to you;
Types... the standard villager types still exist (farmer, blacksmith, etc) but their depth is better explored... a new type would perhaps be the "player replacement" I describe in the "original post" (OP)... I am not sure if this should be a new type or just a "subclass" of one of the preexisting types :2
Skills... I talk about "skills" here as perhaps a variable inherit to the villager's "code"... for example, a villager with a high "woodcutting" skill may be found with a diamond axe, etc
Interaction... the goal is to make them feel like they are a part of a "living" world and feeling a sense of progress when you return to a village and see a familiar villager wearing a set of higher-tier gear :2
Drops... well, villagers currently do not drop the stock of their trades :2 and I don't think they should drop armor due to anatomy differences... perhaps tools then?
I also added a small footnote to the "original post" (OP) of the thread -__-
The manipulations are not a nuisance, but the villagers altering the world would be.
You have to keep your audience in mind.
I don't think you'd feel any progression from seeing a villager wearing diamond armor. It's something that happens independently, and even with a few alterations of stats one villager is much the same as any other. They don't have personality enough that I can treat them as independent people.
Look, the point of these forums is to submit a complete idea so that you can get good criticism on them before posting them places that the Minecraft developers actually look, like Reddit. Hence the focus on critics. There is an assumption that you're actually trying to get your suggestion in the game. Submitting incomplete pipe dreams defeats the point of this forum altogether. It's the suggestions forum, not the speculations/daydreams forum.
As this suggestion is specifically designed to be speculative/imaginary only, it does not have my support. It is better than your previous suggestions in that it actually seems like it has a point and demonstrates an improvement in the way you communicate, but that only makes it as good as average first-time suggestions. My own first suggestion was rather like this, in fact.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
2/3/2016
Posts:
118
Member Details
"The manipulations are not a nuisance, but the villagers altering the world would be."
Manipulation and alteration here feel like they could be used interchangeable could you at least elaborate on what you're trying to say? Perhaps with concrete examples as I have done (villagers sowing seeds, etc)
"there should never be an NPC mob that plays the game for you"
How is the NPC "playing the game for you"? There should be nothing in my line of comment that lends one to such a conclusion nor is it the intention behind the concept... do your eyes deceive you?
"I don't think you'd feel any progression from seeing a villager wearing diamond armor."
Maybe not a villager... but if it was one you had seen before on your explorations, one whose name you were familiar with... in this case you would feel like the npc, despite being a barbaric AI, had accomplished something within the game
"They don't have personality enough that I can treat them as independent people."
Look... the goal is not believable artificial intelligence... the goal is that, as you play the game and progress your own character in the world, so do the villagers improve their own standing in the world...
"it is better than your previous suggestions in that it actually seems like it has a point"
If you weigh my previous suggestions on their own merit, you will see that they are epic ideas... that is all I will say on that matter
"The manipulations are not a nuisance, but the villagers altering the world would be."
Manipulation and alteration here feel like they could be used interchangeable could you at least elaborate on what you're trying to say? Perhaps with concrete examples as I have done (villagers sowing seeds, etc)
"there should never be an NPC mob that plays the game for you"
How is the NPC "playing the game for you"? There should be nothing in my line of comment that lends one to such a conclusion nor is it the intention behind the concept... do your eyes deceive you?
"I don't think you'd feel any progression from seeing a villager wearing diamond armor."
Maybe not a villager... but if it was one you had seen before on your explorations, one whose name you were familiar with... in this case you would feel like the npc, despite being a barbaric AI, had accomplished something within the game
"They don't have personality enough that I can treat them as independent people."
Look... the goal is not believable artificial intelligence... the goal is that, as you play the game and progress your own character in the world, so do the villagers improve their own standing in the world...
"it is better than your previous suggestions in that it actually seems like it has a point"
If you weigh my previous suggestions on their own merit, you will see that they are epic ideas... that is all I will say on that matter
I'm sorry, but unless you plan to complete the suggestion with details there's no point in trying to reason it out.
I do weigh your suggestions for their own merit. They're less epic than someone accidentally falling down the stairs to the Benny Hill theme.
There is really no point to this, if someone is playing Singleplayer, I'd assume they want to play by themselves, not with a bunch of things that strive to imitate players. If you want to play with other people, just do it. NO SUPPORT.
I'm sorry, but unless you plan to complete the suggestion with details there's no point in trying to reason it out.
I do weigh your suggestions for their own merit. They're less epic than someone accidentally falling down the stairs to the Benny Hill theme.
Yikes.
Villagers are NOT important in this game, and they never should be. All they should be is just things to trade with, and things to steal from. When they added the feature of villagers farming and replanting, that was the absolute limit, because people abuse that. Anything that can be abused will be abused. This would completely destroy villagers. People could make so many farms, and get so much more resources than before.
Hello Bartin here with another epic Minecraft "idea"
I'll preface by saying that I know the current technology allowing for such a suggestion is limited at best... but there is always Minecraft 2.0 :2
The current state of villagers is mediocre... however it's not just the depth of design and generality of the villagers that is flawed, it is also the spawn mechanics and lack of background (does anyone remember when they were called "testificates"?)
Ideally: If I were to implement an actually good "villager" system, I would instead design it around being a replacement for players in single-player/low-populated servers...
AKA, dynamically generated npcs that perform similar tasks to other players in the overworld... so rather than merely spawning villagers in villages randomly in key biomes, they would actually walk around the map, doing tasks specific to whatever their spawn "class" was... of course they would return to their village as well...
They would have a few new features in order to make them decent "substitutes" for players:
Randomized avatars (their skin perhaps has an emblem matching a banner at their home village**), randomized names... these would serve the purpose of making the world look more populated... Interestingly, these villagers have "skills" that they themselves can train (No, this is not a suggestion for skills in Minecraft... these are merely variables inherent to the villager that determine the equipment it uses as they change over time)... there is also permadeath for these villagers thus emulating a "rise-to-fame" situation where each world could have well-known villagers who've managed to survive all the way to max skill levels (perhaps they now carry enchanted diamond gear and run around with the effects of speed potion or on horses)
Also, killing a high-skilled villager should not drop its armor as the anatomy of villagers is different from the player :2 and so wouldn't fit the player-character...
However as I said previously, this is a very technologically demanding idea and is perhaps infeasible... well regardless...
**I didn't want to make this a standalone suggestion because of how small and trivial it is, but I do think villages should spawn with "randomized" banners that are unique to their village (perhaps depending on the biome, the banner is chosen from a different "class" of banners... a desert village could never have the same banner as a plains village, etc)... this would grant villages a greater feeling of "life" :2
I am going to ignore how technically complicated such villagers would be and talk about just your idea.
Minecraft is a game that revolves around your ability to decide how things go. Making villagers do things that manipulate the world is a nuisance, at best, and deeply exploitable, at worst.
In most other games, these extremely complex villagers would be a welcome addition, filling the world with intelligent and busy life. In Minecraft, players would turn them into machines.
And even if the above were not true, your suggestion lacks details. What kinds of villagers are there? What skills can they train in? What are their functions, and how do they fulfill it? How do they interact with each other? Do they drop anything? How do different villages react to each other? Do villages spread according to what you envision? How does any of this change how you interact with them?
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
I'd like to point out that I originally thought, "This might work, but only as a mod." Now, with your statement, I can only reiterate that; this kind of thing could only ever be acceptable as a mod.
I support this, this, and this. And this now. Also this.
"I am going to ignore how technically complicated such villagers would be and talk about just your idea."
Such lines of comment were addressed in the 2nd and last sentences of my post
"Making villagers do things that manipulate the world is a nuisance, at best, and deeply exploitable, at worst"
Villagers in the current version of the game can already manipulate the world by planting crops if you admit here that this is, as you claim, deeply exploitable, I won't hold you to any doublespeak :2 but I do not believe that such manipulations are a nuisance... elaborate
"In Minecraft, players would turn them into machines"
So the problem isn't with the idea, it is with the players of Minecraft?
"What kinds of villagers are there? What skills can they train in? What are their functions, and how do they fulfill it? How do they interact with each other? Do they drop anything? How do different villages react to each other? Do villages spread according to what you envision? How does any of this change how you interact with them?"
I didn't go into great detail because, as I explain in my "original post" (OP), it is a very technically demanding concept and further details are perhaps just more "dreams in a cloud"... that is to say, I am more curious about the community response to such a type of suggestion...
Regardless... I could sell a few hypotheticals to you;
Types... the standard villager types still exist (farmer, blacksmith, etc) but their depth is better explored... a new type would perhaps be the "player replacement" I describe in the "original post" (OP)... I am not sure if this should be a new type or just a "subclass" of one of the preexisting types :2
Skills... I talk about "skills" here as perhaps a variable inherit to the villager's "code"... for example, a villager with a high "woodcutting" skill may be found with a diamond axe, etc
Interaction... the goal is to make them feel like they are a part of a "living" world and feeling a sense of progress when you return to a village and see a familiar villager wearing a set of higher-tier gear :2
Drops... well, villagers currently do not drop the stock of their trades :2 and I don't think they should drop armor due to anatomy differences... perhaps tools then?
I also added a small footnote to the "original post" (OP) of the thread
That's what he was talking about, I'm also looking around for them.
I already know what this thread is trying to do, but I'm just gonna give a good ol' 'no support' since there should never be an NPC mob that plays the game for you. Something strange tells me you knew that beforehand? But uhh, yeah.
A very epicly epic no support -__-
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
The manipulations are not a nuisance, but the villagers altering the world would be.
You have to keep your audience in mind.
I don't think you'd feel any progression from seeing a villager wearing diamond armor. It's something that happens independently, and even with a few alterations of stats one villager is much the same as any other. They don't have personality enough that I can treat them as independent people.
Look, the point of these forums is to submit a complete idea so that you can get good criticism on them before posting them places that the Minecraft developers actually look, like Reddit. Hence the focus on critics. There is an assumption that you're actually trying to get your suggestion in the game. Submitting incomplete pipe dreams defeats the point of this forum altogether. It's the suggestions forum, not the speculations/daydreams forum.
As this suggestion is specifically designed to be speculative/imaginary only, it does not have my support. It is better than your previous suggestions in that it actually seems like it has a point and demonstrates an improvement in the way you communicate, but that only makes it as good as average first-time suggestions. My own first suggestion was rather like this, in fact.
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
"The manipulations are not a nuisance, but the villagers altering the world would be."
Manipulation and alteration here feel like they could be used interchangeable could you at least elaborate on what you're trying to say? Perhaps with concrete examples as I have done (villagers sowing seeds, etc)
"there should never be an NPC mob that plays the game for you"
How is the NPC "playing the game for you"? There should be nothing in my line of comment that lends one to such a conclusion nor is it the intention behind the concept... do your eyes deceive you?
"I don't think you'd feel any progression from seeing a villager wearing diamond armor."
Maybe not a villager... but if it was one you had seen before on your explorations, one whose name you were familiar with... in this case you would feel like the npc, despite being a barbaric AI, had accomplished something within the game
"They don't have personality enough that I can treat them as independent people."
Look... the goal is not believable artificial intelligence... the goal is that, as you play the game and progress your own character in the world, so do the villagers improve their own standing in the world...
"it is better than your previous suggestions in that it actually seems like it has a point"
If you weigh my previous suggestions on their own merit, you will see that they are epic ideas... that is all I will say on that matter
I'm sorry, but unless you plan to complete the suggestion with details there's no point in trying to reason it out.
I do weigh your suggestions for their own merit. They're less epic than someone accidentally falling down the stairs to the Benny Hill theme.
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
There is really no point to this, if someone is playing Singleplayer, I'd assume they want to play by themselves, not with a bunch of things that strive to imitate players. If you want to play with other people, just do it. NO SUPPORT.
It's called singleplayer not multiplayer. Plus this could be abusable, as you can easily just steal from these guys.
No Support
Yikes.
Villagers are NOT important in this game, and they never should be. All they should be is just things to trade with, and things to steal from. When they added the feature of villagers farming and replanting, that was the absolute limit, because people abuse that. Anything that can be abused will be abused. This would completely destroy villagers. People could make so many farms, and get so much more resources than before.
I'm white. Not asian.