Well, exactly. What if. If people don't like cave exploring, and people love strip mining, it's a bad idea. Granted. Feedback, however, on that specific point, is required.
There are surely people who do not wish to go cave exploring. I know a lot of people come close to shitting their pants when they explore caves. And even if the number of people that like cave exploring (which I must say, is probably higher), how does this idea add to their gameplay at all? As shown, it only takes away, as far as I can see.
And there is something you may have overlooked. You need cobblestone to make furnaces.
Edit: Wow, those last two sentences...
That was me with the casual gamer angle. I don't mean casual in regards to monsters at all. I was mostly referring to your plan to increase the length of mining, in terms of people with time-based restrictions on their gaming; casual as in "not investing countless hours into a game". Adding extra time to basic mining cuts drastically into the amount of things that could be done by someone who only has X amount of time to spend on a game. Anyone who could only spend say, an hour or so for a Minecraft session would be forced to either explore caves, live on the surface with poor tools, or not bother playing. That restricts the type of experiences they could get out of the game, much moreso than others who have time to burn. Suggesting that they play on peaceful is further restricting their game experience to "look in a cave for a rock".
That was also me with the assertion that the extra time would be damaging to the game as a whole, which is not a false assertion; it's based on my comments above about casual gamers, and also the fact that the game is much more than a linear progression to acquire diamonds. Quite apart from strip-mining, this ruins people's ability to build underground or with mass amounts of stone with any kind of real progress. If you're not interested in finding diamonds then much of your game has become an exercise in holding a mouse button.
As fun as cave-diving is, it's not the whole focus of the game. That's why you're getting so much flak and commentary about choice. It goes beyond a debate about the benefits of cave-diving over stripmines; their relative benefits/drawbacks are irrelevant compared to having the choice of which one you would like to use at any given time. The game is built to offer many different people a game that they can enjoy, whether it's PvP, exploration, building, monster-fighting, something else, or a taste of everything. Your suggestions at their heart are based almost entirely around removing strip-mining in favour of spelunking, when currently both of those options are available already.
I like your ideas on making caves more interesting, but not at the expense of someone else's gameplay. That's really not a necessary thing. If caving is more fun, then cave-oriented people will like them even more, and it may draw other people to check them out when they may not currently; but there's no need to force people who aren't into it to go there.
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Every time I come to these forums, I think more and more that I'm the only person who plays Minecraft normally.
Every time I come to these forums, I think more and more that there is no such thing as playing Minecraft normally.
Well, exactly. What if. If people don't like cave exploring, and people love strip mining, it's a bad idea. Granted. Feedback, however, on that specific point, is required.
There are surely people who do not wish to go cave exploring. I know a lot of people come close to shitting their pants when they explore caves. And even if the number of people that like cave exploring (which I must say, is probably higher), how does this idea add to their gameplay at all? As shown, it only takes away, as far as I can see.
Let those that don't like cave exploring speak. I don't want to presume for anyone.
To your question, the stone aspect doesn't add to the enjoyment, the intertwining caves from the surface do. The point of the stone aspect is to guide players to that fun goal. The 9 points I wrote in the OP were part of the reaction to the stone proposal which I thought could be positive things.
And there is something you may have missed. You need cobblestone to make furnaces.
Well, exactly. What if. If people don't like cave exploring, and people love strip mining, it's a bad idea. Granted. Feedback, however, on that specific point, is required.
There are surely people who do not wish to go cave exploring. I know a lot of people come close to shitting their pants when they explore caves. And even if the number of people that like cave exploring (which I must say, is probably higher), how does this idea add to their gameplay at all? As shown, it only takes away, as far as I can see.
Let those that don't like cave exploring speak. I don't want to presume for anyone.
To your question, the stone aspect doesn't add to the enjoyment, the intertwining caves from the surface do. The point of the stone aspect is to guide players to that fun goal. The 9 points I wrote in the OP were part of the reaction to the stone proposal which I thought could be positive things.
And there is something you may have missed. You need cobblestone to make furnaces.
Pleeease be trolling.
1. Many of those people are not in suggestions, because they don't need to suggest ideas that could ruin the game for some people.
2. Wish not granted. Furnaces will then become rare and useful for defence.
Also, you would ruin raider's lives, 30 seconds for one smoothstone wall piece? That's 120 seconds for a 2 layer thick wall. That's 2 minutes. Are you crazy?
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Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle - So many ways to die, so few times to do so.
Currently, the only natural cobblestone is in dungeons. If you put cobblestone in cave entrances and etc., it would be harder to find dungeons than it is now.
That was me with the casual gamer angle. I don't mean casual in regards to monsters at all. I was mostly referring to your plan to increase the length of mining, in terms of people with time-based restrictions on their gaming; casual as in "not investing countless hours into a game". Adding extra time to basic mining cuts drastically into the amount of things that could be done by someone who only has X amount of time to spend on a game. Anyone who could only spend say, an hour or so for a Minecraft session would be forced to either explore caves, live on the surface with poor tools, or not bother playing. That restricts the type of experiences they could get out of the game, much moreso than others who have time to burn. Suggesting that they play on peaceful is further restricting their game experience to "look in a cave for a rock".
That was also me with the assertion that the extra time would be damaging to the game as a whole, which is not a false assertion; it's based on my comments above about casual gamers, and also the fact that the game is much more than a linear progression to acquire diamonds. Quite apart from strip-mining, this ruins people's ability to build underground or with mass amounts of stone with any kind of real progress. If you're not interested in finding diamonds then much of your game has become an exercise in holding a mouse button.
Ok, I can take this on a limited time gamer angle.
The assertion I think you were making, was that a lot of my suggestions drastically slow the speed of the game, which I think is untrue. I do agree, caving would take longer, but not by a large amount. Base cobblestone/wood/dirt can all be cleared away at the same pace it always has, and building takes the same amount of time.
It is unfair to say I am making basic mining impossible, where as it is more accurate to say I am making base mining different. I would say, my suggestion makes redstone/diamond take longer than the current flow of the game, but coal/iron at relatively the same pace.
I also don't buy it as a fact that any change to Minecraft that would slow the pace is automatically a bad thing. It is or it isn't, on its own merits.
I don't understand why anyone is forced to have poor tools when anyone can go into a cave and get iron relatively quickly, and basically at the same flow as the game stands now. Perhaps 5 minutes more preparation (weapons/armor/pig steaks), which I don't think is game changing or unfun.
Suggesting that they play on peaceful is further restricting their game experience to "look in a cave for a rock".
I specifically have issue with this statement. Not because it is untrue, but because you are making it sound like it is a bad result. If you want to play without conflict, and you were someone who plays on peaceful, is it so bad to go through a cave and grab minerals off of the walls and not be able to drill into random wall sections looking for minerals?
As fun as cave-diving is, it's not the whole focus of the game.
I know what you are trying to say, but don't blanket statement it. You know for a fact I'm not asserting it's the whole focus of the game. Everything I've ever built in the world I have now could be done with this proposed change with the same difficulty.
Actually no, that is not 100% true. I built a water tunnel through a mountain, and I would have needed a diamond pick. Which I already had when I made it, but regardless, I would have been forced to need one.
That's why you're getting so much flak and commentary about choice. It goes beyond a debate about the benefits of cave-diving over stripmines; their relative benefits/drawbacks are irrelevant compared to having the choice of which one you would like to use at any given time. The game is built to offer many different people a game that they can enjoy, whether it's PvP, exploration, building, monster-fighting, something else, or a taste of everything. Your suggestions at their heart are based almost entirely around removing strip-mining in favour of spelunking, when currently both of those options are available already.
I agree, and as I've said, if people tell me they love strip mining and want to keep it in because it is fun for them, I'd drop the stone idea and declare it bad. I don't however feel bad for making a suggestion of removing an aspect of game play if people don't actually find it fun.
I like your ideas on making caves more interesting, but not at the expense of someone else's gameplay. That's really not a necessary thing. If caving is more fun, then cave-oriented people will like them even more, and it may draw other people to check them out when they may not currently; but there's no need to force people who aren't into it to go there.
I agree, if there is people who dont want to cave and want to strip mine only, then just refining the proposal to making caves more fun is better.
Currently, the only natural cobblestone is in dungeons. If you put cobblestone in cave entrances and etc., it would be harder to find dungeons than it is now.
Seriously? Read proposal 3. Same as the last guy I responded to, there is no excuse for only reading half of what I wrote and objecting to it.
I agree, and as I've said, if people tell me they love strip mining and want to keep it in because it is fun for them, I'd drop the stone idea and declare it bad. I don't however feel bad for making a suggestion of removing an aspect of game play if people don't actually find it fun.
I myself strip mine. You ask, why? I use it to gather resources. Why, when cave exploring is so much more fun? Because exploring caves can be a huge pain in the ass sometimes. Its nice to have an alternative to spelunking so that you can take a break and do something other than constantly placing torches down and putting your life on the line. Even though I may not be having that much fun while strip-mining, I am sure having more than fun I would be exploring caves after an hour or so. And at the same time, I am getting something accomplished. I am getting those resources so I can prepare myself better for the next time I do go exploring and I am getting resources for my house.
I agree, and as I've said, if people tell me they love strip mining and want to keep it in because it is fun for them, I'd drop the stone idea and declare it bad. I don't however feel bad for making a suggestion of removing an aspect of game play if people don't actually find it fun.
I myself strip mine. You ask, why? I use it to gather resources. Why, when cave exploring is so much more fun? Because exploring caves can be a huge pain in the ass sometimes. Its nice to have an alternative to spelunking so that you can take a break and do something other than constantly placing torches down and putting your life on the line. Even though I may not be having that much fun while strip-mining, I am sure having more than fun I would be exploring caves after an hour or so. And at the same time, I am getting something accomplished. I am getting those resources so I can prepare myself better for the next time I do go exploring and I am getting resources for my house.
Ok, just to make sure I have a feel of where you are coming from, could I paraphrase this as:
"It is nice to have an easier alternative of acquiring minerals that also progresses the game, rather than the only option being stressful and difficult."
As it stands, I play the same way you do. I do think the unfunness is certainly addressable, and perhaps better addressed by making caving better rather than making strip mining impossible. The original reason for that proposals existence would be for players who strip mine because it is there and easy, while simultaneously not enjoying it. You may ask "Well, why the hell would they do it then?". It's just the psychology of gamers. If you've ever played an Xbox game with a tedious achievement that says "collect 100 of whatever" and done it or know of others who have done it, you'd understand how it is in human nature to simply do what is available, whether or not you liked it. I'm, personally, one of those idiots. I hated Farcry 2 because I felt the need to collect the diamonds (diamonds again, ironic) which was a time consuming and boring process, and if the choice was removed from that game and my only choice was to go through the game with slightly inferior weaponry, the game would have strangely been better. So all in all, I think its a fair question to ask "Is strip mining fun" when making suggestions that may circumvent it.
Well let me sum up what I want to say. I love exploration. I love natural caves and I love being able to explore infinitely. What you suggest here ShadowStarshine is to remove the emphasis of strip mining to obtain resources in the game. While I'm not a Minecrafter who strip mines, I'd like to make it a point that many do use the process. They may not enjoy the strip mining, but they enjoy the rewards they obtain from strip mining. It's kind of like the ideology that the means justify the (LONG and BORING) process.
A worthy compromise in my opinion would be to keep the mining times the same as they are, but increase the number of caves. So people who don't want to strip mine don't have to and people who want to strip mine can if they want to. I really like exploring natural caves and I see the validity of your statements. However, rather than taking away one aspect of the game (mining), I think it would be a better idea to emphasize another aspect (exploring).
Furthermore, I find building to be the most fun aspect of Minecraft. You seem to suggest that exploration gives the most fun, but I think that I am most satisfied when I am finished building an extremely complex/large building out of natural resources. Not only did I take the time to mine out all of the resources I needed to create my building, but I also created a nice work of architecture, which is incredibly satisfying to me. This is the reason why creative mode is not as fun as survival in my opinion. I like to show some effort into my work: some proof that I spent a long time creating my work of art. Your suggestion for longer mining times only prolongs the process of gathering materials and frustrates those who want to build quicker.
Now at this point I can see the counterargument: that longer build times would only increase the happiness when one builds a giant building because more time is spent building it. However, at what point does spending time become wasting time? I believe that Minecraft is a good way to spend time right now. With prolonged mining times I think it would become close to the point of wasting time.
I hope you enjoyed reading my arguments and I hope that you take them into serious consideration. I tried to refrain from being like some of the other forum goers here because I understand how frustrating it is when people troll your ideas.
Well let me sum up what I want to say. I love exploration. I love natural caves and I love being able to explore infinitely. What you suggest here ShadowStarshine is to remove the emphasis of strip mining to obtain resources in the game. While I'm not a Minecrafter who strip mines, I'd like to make it a point that many do use the process. They may not enjoy the strip mining, but they enjoy the rewards they obtain from strip mining. It's kind of like the ideology that the means justify the (LONG and BORING) process.
A worthy compromise in my opinion would be to keep the mining times the same as they are, but increase the number of caves. So people who don't want to strip mine don't have to and people who want to strip mine can if they want to. I really like exploring natural caves and I see the validity of your statements. However, rather than taking away one aspect of the game (mining), I think it would be a better idea to emphasize another aspect (exploring).
Furthermore, I find building to be the most fun aspect of Minecraft. You seem to suggest that exploration gives the most fun, but I think that I am most satisfied when I am finished building an extremely complex/large building out of natural resources. Not only did I take the time to mine out all of the resources I needed to create my building, but I also created a nice work of architecture, which is incredibly satisfying to me. This is the reason why creative mode is not as fun as survival in my opinion. I like to show some effort into my work: some proof that I spent a long time creating my work of art. Your suggestion for longer mining times only prolongs the process of gathering materials and frustrates those who want to build quicker.
Now at this point I can see the counterargument: that longer build times would only increase the happiness when one builds a giant building because more time is spent building it. However, at what point does spending time become wasting time? I believe that Minecraft is a good way to spend time right now. With prolonged mining times I think it would become close to the point of wasting time.
I hope you enjoyed reading my arguments and I hope that you take them into serious consideration. I tried to refrain from being like some of the other forum goers here because I understand how frustrating it is when people troll your ideas.
I'll address your last statement first, yeah, it's nice you're not being a troll. I do appropriate thought out criticism. I do think though, that a few of your statements were addressed in the thread already, but I'll be nice and restate them.
They may not enjoy the strip mining, but they enjoy the rewards they obtain from strip mining. It's kind of like the ideology that the means justify the (LONG and BORING) process.
I understand that, but if I can offer an alternative that makes the rewards the same and the process more fun, I think it's a worthy suggestion.
A worthy compromise in my opinion would be to keep the mining times the same as they are, but increase the number of caves. So people who don't want to strip mine don't have to and people who want to strip mine can if they want to. I really like exploring natural caves and I see the validity of your statements. However, rather than taking away one aspect of the game (mining), I think it would be a better idea to emphasize another aspect (exploring).
I've stated that if people truly enjoy strip mining, the stone idea should be removed and only the expansion of cave ideas should be considered. I'd only want the stone idea in place so that people who would do it while simultaneously not enjoying it, would have a push into a direction they enjoy more.
Furthermore, I find building to be the most fun aspect of Minecraft. You seem to suggest that exploration gives the most fun
No I didn't. I suggested its more fun than strip mining. I LOVE building.
but I think that I am most satisfied when I am finished building an extremely complex/large building out of natural resources. Not only did I take the time to mine out all of the resources I needed to create my building, but I also created a nice work of architecture, which is incredibly satisfying to me. This is the reason why creative mode is not as fun as survival in my opinion. I like to show some effort into my work: some proof that I spent a long time creating my work of art. Your suggestion for longer mining times only prolongs the process of gathering materials and frustrates those who want to build quicker.
Now at this point I can see the counterargument: that longer build times would only increase the happiness when one builds a giant building because more time is spent building it. However, at what point does spending time become wasting time? I believe that Minecraft is a good way to spend time right now. With prolonged mining times I think it would become close to the point of wasting time.
In what way is there prolonged mining times. I need you to be specific because a lot of people replying are showing only part comprehension for some of the ideas. I don't actually think there is too long an increased time to do any building, except in the case of making large underground caverns which require diamond. Everything else is basically unaffected.
I feel the same way about building in Survival. It has enhanced meaning.
Sorry if I restated some ideas... I didn't read some of your replies to what other people said. Anyways I think you should edit your first post to reflect some of the ideas that have been circulated in this thread so that people aren't confused. Also to clarify, I meant that building time is increased because it takes more time to gather the required materials in order to start building. Giant cobblestone castles aren't made out of thin air; it takes time to collect cobblestone. And what you are proposing is that it should take longer to mine things for everything but diamond.
"1) Make clean stone take a long time to mine, specifically with stone picks (30 seconds, estimate), noticeably with iron picks(10 seconds, estimate) and only a slight increase in difficulty with diamond picks(1 second estimate, or just keep it like it is)."
Diamond is obviously very rare so I'm assuming that most people will have to deal with the extended mining times you propose if your plans are implemented. But, you have already stated that you are willing to rescind the longer stone time idea so I guess that part of the question has already been answered. I'm only connecting the longer stone mining to the building aspect of the game.
Sorry if I restated some ideas... I didn't read some of your replies to what other people said. Anyways I think you should edit your first post to reflect some of the ideas that have been circulated in this thread so that people aren't confused. Also to clarify, I meant that building time is increased because it takes more time to gather the required materials in order to start building. Giant cobblestone castles aren't made out of thin air; it takes time to collect cobblestone. And what you are proposing is that it should take longer to mine things for everything but diamond.
"1) Make clean stone take a long time to mine, specifically with stone picks (30 seconds, estimate), noticeably with iron picks(10 seconds, estimate) and only a slight increase in difficulty with diamond picks(1 second estimate, or just keep it like it is)."
Diamond is obviously very rare so I'm assuming that most people will have to deal with the extended mining times you propose if your plans are implemented. But, you have already stated that you are willing to rescind the longer stone time idea so I guess that part of the question has already been answered. I'm only connecting the longer stone mining to the building aspect of the game.
I'm probably going to make a second post with a sum up of the ideas and well presented arguments of this thread.
By the way, clean stone and ONLY clean stone takes longer to mine in my suggestion. So "takes longer to mine things" is not accurate. Every other resource in the game mines at the same time, and is found in caves.
Secondly, proposal 3 specifically addresses the need to collect cobblestone.
Increase natural cave formation and make it so they actually last further than a few meters /thread
The other ideas only serve to ruin the way some people enjoy the game and artificially extend play by slowing down the game. It would be like removing all the sniper rifles from an FPS because running and gunning is more fun for some people - it just wouldn't be cool - especially if you already have people who paid for the game and enjoy sniping.
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"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
-Arthur C. Clark
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology"
-Larry Niven
Increase natural cave formation and make it so they actually last further than a few meters /thread
The other ideas only serve to ruin the way some people enjoy the game and artificially extend play by slowing down the game. It would be like removing all the sniper rifles from an FPS because running and gunning is more fun for some people - it just wouldn't be cool - especially if you already have people who paid for the game and enjoy sniping.
A fair analogy ONLY if people enjoy strip mining. Read the rest of the thread, this argument has already been made.
Wow I definitely did not read the first post carefully at all... lol but if we're going to go through all this trouble just to get rid of strip mining what's the point? I don't think people are being forced to strip mine at all and that's just one minor annoyance that players can choose to ignore if they want. Notch didn't invent strip mining, the Minecraft community did. I still find diamond and other valuable resources all the time while I'm in natural caves. However, if people really do desire diamond so much I think your idea of larger natural caves is a much better alternative to strip mining. Not only would people be able to acquire the diamond they so highly covet, they would also have fun exploring new parts of the world as well.
I think I finally get what your saying and its an excellent idea. People just need to think about it some more. I think the initial shock value of your proposed stone mining time distracts people from understanding the true point of what you're saying.
There are surely people who do not wish to go cave exploring. I know a lot of people come close to shitting their pants when they explore caves. And even if the number of people that like cave exploring (which I must say, is probably higher), how does this idea add to their gameplay at all? As shown, it only takes away, as far as I can see.
And there is something you may have overlooked. You need cobblestone to make furnaces.Edit: Wow, those last two sentences...
"Just because you can doesn't mean you should."
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That was also me with the assertion that the extra time would be damaging to the game as a whole, which is not a false assertion; it's based on my comments above about casual gamers, and also the fact that the game is much more than a linear progression to acquire diamonds. Quite apart from strip-mining, this ruins people's ability to build underground or with mass amounts of stone with any kind of real progress. If you're not interested in finding diamonds then much of your game has become an exercise in holding a mouse button.
As fun as cave-diving is, it's not the whole focus of the game. That's why you're getting so much flak and commentary about choice. It goes beyond a debate about the benefits of cave-diving over stripmines; their relative benefits/drawbacks are irrelevant compared to having the choice of which one you would like to use at any given time. The game is built to offer many different people a game that they can enjoy, whether it's PvP, exploration, building, monster-fighting, something else, or a taste of everything. Your suggestions at their heart are based almost entirely around removing strip-mining in favour of spelunking, when currently both of those options are available already.
I like your ideas on making caves more interesting, but not at the expense of someone else's gameplay. That's really not a necessary thing. If caving is more fun, then cave-oriented people will like them even more, and it may draw other people to check them out when they may not currently; but there's no need to force people who aren't into it to go there.
Let those that don't like cave exploring speak. I don't want to presume for anyone.
To your question, the stone aspect doesn't add to the enjoyment, the intertwining caves from the surface do. The point of the stone aspect is to guide players to that fun goal. The 9 points I wrote in the OP were part of the reaction to the stone proposal which I thought could be positive things.
Pleeease be trolling.
1. Many of those people are not in suggestions, because they don't need to suggest ideas that could ruin the game for some people.
2. Wish not granted. Furnaces will then become rare and useful for defence.
Also, you would ruin raider's lives, 30 seconds for one smoothstone wall piece? That's 120 seconds for a 2 layer thick wall. That's 2 minutes. Are you crazy?
Warriors of Chaos!!!
Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle - So many ways to die, so few times to do so.
Ok, I can take this on a limited time gamer angle.
The assertion I think you were making, was that a lot of my suggestions drastically slow the speed of the game, which I think is untrue. I do agree, caving would take longer, but not by a large amount. Base cobblestone/wood/dirt can all be cleared away at the same pace it always has, and building takes the same amount of time.
It is unfair to say I am making basic mining impossible, where as it is more accurate to say I am making base mining different. I would say, my suggestion makes redstone/diamond take longer than the current flow of the game, but coal/iron at relatively the same pace.
I also don't buy it as a fact that any change to Minecraft that would slow the pace is automatically a bad thing. It is or it isn't, on its own merits.
I don't understand why anyone is forced to have poor tools when anyone can go into a cave and get iron relatively quickly, and basically at the same flow as the game stands now. Perhaps 5 minutes more preparation (weapons/armor/pig steaks), which I don't think is game changing or unfun.
I specifically have issue with this statement. Not because it is untrue, but because you are making it sound like it is a bad result. If you want to play without conflict, and you were someone who plays on peaceful, is it so bad to go through a cave and grab minerals off of the walls and not be able to drill into random wall sections looking for minerals?
I know what you are trying to say, but don't blanket statement it. You know for a fact I'm not asserting it's the whole focus of the game. Everything I've ever built in the world I have now could be done with this proposed change with the same difficulty.
Actually no, that is not 100% true. I built a water tunnel through a mountain, and I would have needed a diamond pick. Which I already had when I made it, but regardless, I would have been forced to need one.
I agree, and as I've said, if people tell me they love strip mining and want to keep it in because it is fun for them, I'd drop the stone idea and declare it bad. I don't however feel bad for making a suggestion of removing an aspect of game play if people don't actually find it fun.
I agree, if there is people who dont want to cave and want to strip mine only, then just refining the proposal to making caves more fun is better.
Read the original post. Again. Read proposal 3 specifically. This is a display of TERRIBLE comprehension.
Seriously? Read proposal 3. Same as the last guy I responded to, there is no excuse for only reading half of what I wrote and objecting to it.
Warriors of Chaos!!!
Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle - So many ways to die, so few times to do so.
I myself strip mine. You ask, why? I use it to gather resources. Why, when cave exploring is so much more fun? Because exploring caves can be a huge pain in the ass sometimes. Its nice to have an alternative to spelunking so that you can take a break and do something other than constantly placing torches down and putting your life on the line. Even though I may not be having that much fun while strip-mining, I am sure having more than fun I would be exploring caves after an hour or so. And at the same time, I am getting something accomplished. I am getting those resources so I can prepare myself better for the next time I do go exploring and I am getting resources for my house.
"Just because you can doesn't mean you should."
Click here for an awsome game
Ok, just to make sure I have a feel of where you are coming from, could I paraphrase this as:
"It is nice to have an easier alternative of acquiring minerals that also progresses the game, rather than the only option being stressful and difficult."
As it stands, I play the same way you do. I do think the unfunness is certainly addressable, and perhaps better addressed by making caving better rather than making strip mining impossible. The original reason for that proposals existence would be for players who strip mine because it is there and easy, while simultaneously not enjoying it. You may ask "Well, why the hell would they do it then?". It's just the psychology of gamers. If you've ever played an Xbox game with a tedious achievement that says "collect 100 of whatever" and done it or know of others who have done it, you'd understand how it is in human nature to simply do what is available, whether or not you liked it. I'm, personally, one of those idiots. I hated Farcry 2 because I felt the need to collect the diamonds (diamonds again, ironic) which was a time consuming and boring process, and if the choice was removed from that game and my only choice was to go through the game with slightly inferior weaponry, the game would have strangely been better. So all in all, I think its a fair question to ask "Is strip mining fun" when making suggestions that may circumvent it.
Well let me sum up what I want to say. I love exploration. I love natural caves and I love being able to explore infinitely. What you suggest here ShadowStarshine is to remove the emphasis of strip mining to obtain resources in the game. While I'm not a Minecrafter who strip mines, I'd like to make it a point that many do use the process. They may not enjoy the strip mining, but they enjoy the rewards they obtain from strip mining. It's kind of like the ideology that the means justify the (LONG and BORING) process.
A worthy compromise in my opinion would be to keep the mining times the same as they are, but increase the number of caves. So people who don't want to strip mine don't have to and people who want to strip mine can if they want to. I really like exploring natural caves and I see the validity of your statements. However, rather than taking away one aspect of the game (mining), I think it would be a better idea to emphasize another aspect (exploring).
Furthermore, I find building to be the most fun aspect of Minecraft. You seem to suggest that exploration gives the most fun, but I think that I am most satisfied when I am finished building an extremely complex/large building out of natural resources. Not only did I take the time to mine out all of the resources I needed to create my building, but I also created a nice work of architecture, which is incredibly satisfying to me. This is the reason why creative mode is not as fun as survival in my opinion. I like to show some effort into my work: some proof that I spent a long time creating my work of art. Your suggestion for longer mining times only prolongs the process of gathering materials and frustrates those who want to build quicker.
Now at this point I can see the counterargument: that longer build times would only increase the happiness when one builds a giant building because more time is spent building it. However, at what point does spending time become wasting time? I believe that Minecraft is a good way to spend time right now. With prolonged mining times I think it would become close to the point of wasting time.
I hope you enjoyed reading my arguments and I hope that you take them into serious consideration. I tried to refrain from being like some of the other forum goers here because I understand how frustrating it is when people troll your ideas.
I'll address your last statement first, yeah, it's nice you're not being a troll. I do appropriate thought out criticism. I do think though, that a few of your statements were addressed in the thread already, but I'll be nice and restate them.
I understand that, but if I can offer an alternative that makes the rewards the same and the process more fun, I think it's a worthy suggestion.
I've stated that if people truly enjoy strip mining, the stone idea should be removed and only the expansion of cave ideas should be considered. I'd only want the stone idea in place so that people who would do it while simultaneously not enjoying it, would have a push into a direction they enjoy more.
No I didn't. I suggested its more fun than strip mining. I LOVE building.
In what way is there prolonged mining times. I need you to be specific because a lot of people replying are showing only part comprehension for some of the ideas. I don't actually think there is too long an increased time to do any building, except in the case of making large underground caverns which require diamond. Everything else is basically unaffected.
I feel the same way about building in Survival. It has enhanced meaning.
I know, and if it wasn't for the fact that your avatar gave me 20 seconds of amusement I'd think your presence on this thread was useless.
"1) Make clean stone take a long time to mine, specifically with stone picks (30 seconds, estimate), noticeably with iron picks(10 seconds, estimate) and only a slight increase in difficulty with diamond picks(1 second estimate, or just keep it like it is)."
Diamond is obviously very rare so I'm assuming that most people will have to deal with the extended mining times you propose if your plans are implemented. But, you have already stated that you are willing to rescind the longer stone time idea so I guess that part of the question has already been answered. I'm only connecting the longer stone mining to the building aspect of the game.
I'm probably going to make a second post with a sum up of the ideas and well presented arguments of this thread.
By the way, clean stone and ONLY clean stone takes longer to mine in my suggestion. So "takes longer to mine things" is not accurate. Every other resource in the game mines at the same time, and is found in caves.
Secondly, proposal 3 specifically addresses the need to collect cobblestone.
The other ideas only serve to ruin the way some people enjoy the game and artificially extend play by slowing down the game. It would be like removing all the sniper rifles from an FPS because running and gunning is more fun for some people - it just wouldn't be cool - especially if you already have people who paid for the game and enjoy sniping.
-Arthur C. Clark
"Any sufficiently rigorously defined magic is indistinguishable from technology"
-Larry Niven
A fair analogy ONLY if people enjoy strip mining. Read the rest of the thread, this argument has already been made.
I think I finally get what your saying and its an excellent idea. People just need to think about it some more. I think the initial shock value of your proposed stone mining time distracts people from understanding the true point of what you're saying.