Y'know..... muskets actually didn't have anything in the barrel to keep the bullet away from going wherever it wanted once it left the barrel, so a musket would actually be quite inaccurate.
but the idea of having a little extra range on the baddies out there would be good once i can get fully rid of java to reinstall it.
Muskets are meant to be loaded manually, so maybe you must go into your inventory and drag and drop 1 bullet into your musket in order to reload?
Bows obviously works differently, but because Muskets are greatly at a disadvantage in speed, it gains an advantage in power and range (not accuracy, it strays after some distance, but it flies straighter and further than an arrow).
Musket's damage can be power over range, so the further it flies, the weaker it gets. Using it to snipe isn't as good as a bow.
Personally, I'd rather get a crossbow before a musket should exist.
But all these new weapons are much better off being mods (for roleplaying servers, towns, defenses etc.), while notch focuses on main components.
Muskets are meant to be loaded manually, so maybe you must go into your inventory and drag and drop 1 bullet into your musket in order to reload?
Maybe.... but what would be less annoying? Having to wait 'till a reloading animation is finished in order to fire again, or having to drag and drop a bullet?
But we do have a thread just for guns like this that you should find.
But yea I would love this in game.
HOLY ****! HELL JUST FROZE OVER! muncher likes something! :tongue.gif: There is a whole big thread somewhere out there that encompasses all the gun ideas. Couldn't find it in the search though. . .
I think that the bullet should move about 5x faster than the arrow. Maybe faster, but you should sorta be able to see the bullet travel from the gun to the target. Just like you see an arrow fly.
I'm for the idea of a musket. Take a look at this crafting recipe:
Makes 1 UNLOADED Musket:
[] [] []
Makes 4 "Musket Bullets:"
[] []
[] []
This way, each shot costs 1 iron ingot, which is plenty expensive in my opinion.
To fire the musket:
1) Put the UNLOADED MUSKET + MUSKET BULLET into the 2x2 crafting pane, press craft, and it makes a LOADED MUSKET.
2) Put LOADED MUSKET to the quick bar and select.
3) Click once to cock the musket (takes between 1-2 seconds).
4) Click again to fire (makes the sssssss BOOM creeper sound effect [1-2 seconds delay between click and fire])
Game Mechanics:
-Even with 10 LOADED MUSKETS in the quick bar, delay would still be between 2-4 seconds per shot (the cocking action and the fuse delay), then the player would have to reload some/all of their muskets to be able to fire another salvo.
-The "musket bullet" would exit the firearm at a speed of 40m/s (the max speed in Minecraft) and follow a flat trajectory.
-Optimal range for the musket would be up to 70 tiles (meters), and the falloff would be another 20 tiles.
a) At Optimal + Falloff (90 tiles/meters) the musket would do 0 damage.
:cool.gif: At Optimal (<=70 tiles/meters) the musket would do 6 hearts damage to unarmored and 5 hearts + 1.5-2 armor damage to armored targets (still perfectly "tankable" by a melee character with a few cooked pork in the inventory).
c) In Falloff (not Fallout :tongue.gif:), musket damage would drop by a percentage until reaching 0 at Optimal (70) + Falloff (20).
d) At 90 tiles/meters, the "musket bullet" would simply disappear, unrecoverable.
-Once fired, the LOADED MUSKET would disappear and an UNLOADED MUSKET would be placed in players inventory.
-Once fired, a quick flash and several smoke blocks would spawn in the trajectory of the shot near the player, slightly hindering vision for a few seconds.
These suggestions make a perfectly reasonable weapon addition to the game. The musket has enough positives (longer range, more damage, flat trajectory) and enough reasonable negatives to balance the firearm in with other aspects of the game. The key to comparing it with the Bow is to keep in mind that it is different not better. Further, the mechanic of placing the unloaded musket in the crafting bar with a bullet is a cool little way of doing it that is more involving than simply waiting to shoot again.
I agree with removing the gun powder from the lock part of the lock stock and barrel.
This is an expensive item at best, so I would say that you would need to have some advantage over a bow for this. Lets not call it a musket lets call it a flint lock ( and they were quite accurate) it would take down a monster in one shot but it would have a very large reload time, also it would attract the attention of monsters to you. So one shot then you better get a sword or a bow ready or hope you got one all by its self.
For this you would have to use a gun powder and an iron bar to make the bullet to help balance out this power with such a strong weapon. I would give it the same drop speed as the arrow but make it much faster that would be, in a ballistic sense, accurate.
Also, how does it reload, an animation that needs finished before shooting, a simple delay, or other?
No, muskets didn't fire contained ammunition cartridges. Those weren't invented yet. A modern cartridge is a metal shell that contains the powder and bullet. When the firing pin hits the back of the bullet, mercury fulminate, which is very sensitive, ignites. That in turn ignites the powder, producing a large amount of gas, expelling the bullet with great force. The first guns where loaded manually by pouring the powder down the barrel and then the bullet, perhaps with a wad to keep everything from rolling out. It was rammed down to make everything nice and compact. Then, a smoldering match was lowered through a touch hole to ignite the powder. Putting a small pan at the touch hole that could hold priming powder made igniting the charge more reliable. Later, the muskets had flintlock mechanisms. An arm holding a piece of flint would snap down onto a piece of metal creating a shower of sparks. Since there is a flint and iron I see no reason why there shouldn't be flintlocks.
A big improvement in reloading firearms long before the invention of the integrated metallic cartridge was the paper cartridge.
It combines the powder, wadding and bullet into a single package. Instead of carrying a powder horn, bag of bullets and wadding, you just carry a bunch of cartridges together. You bite open the cartridge, pour a bit of powder into the pan, pour the rest down the barrel, then the bullet, ram it down, cock the musket, aim and fire.
There are a few steps but it could be simplified for an animation.
I'm for the idea of a musket. Take a look at this crafting recipe:
Makes 1 UNLOADED Musket:
[] [] []
Makes 4 "Musket Bullets:"
[] []
[] []
This way, each shot costs 1 iron ingot, which is plenty expensive in my opinion.
To fire the musket:
1) Put the UNLOADED MUSKET + MUSKET BULLET into the 2x2 crafting pane, press craft, and it makes a LOADED MUSKET.
2) Put LOADED MUSKET to the quick bar and select.
3) Click once to cock the musket (takes between 1-2 seconds).
4) Click again to fire (makes the sssssss BOOM creeper sound effect [1-2 seconds delay between click and fire])
Game Mechanics:
-Even with 10 LOADED MUSKETS in the quick bar, delay would still be between 2-4 seconds per shot (the cocking action and the fuse delay), then the player would have to reload some/all of their muskets to be able to fire another salvo.
-The "musket bullet" would exit the firearm at a speed of 40m/s (the max speed in Minecraft) and follow a flat trajectory.
-Once fired, the LOADED MUSKET would disappear and an UNLOADED MUSKET would be placed in players inventory.
-Once fired, a quick flash and several smoke blocks would spawn in the trajectory of the shot near the player, slightly hindering vision for a few seconds.
These suggestions make a perfectly reasonable weapon addition to the game. The musket has enough positives (longer range, more damage, flat trajectory) and enough reasonable negatives to balance the firearm in with other aspects of the game. The key to comparing it with the Bow is to keep in mind that it is different not better. Further, the mechanic of placing the unloaded musket in the crafting bar with a bullet is a cool little way of doing it that is more involving than simply waiting to shoot again.
Well, i was thinking, to make it more convenient yet still balanced, that it could be something to where you could have 1 slot in your inventory with Musket Balls, and 1 slot in your Hotbar with the actual Musket. When you fire, there could be either an animation or just plainly a delay between shots. And as for the suggested ammo, it was actually like that originally, but i changed it (we don't want this to take TOO many recourses, now do we?)
Muskets are meant to be loaded manually, so maybe you must go into your inventory and drag and drop 1 bullet into your musket in order to reload?
Maybe.... but what would be less annoying? Having to wait 'till a reloading animation is finished in order to fire again, or having to drag and drop a bullet?
I played a hunting game that had a black powder, muzzle loading rifle. It took about six seconds to reload but it wasn't as bad as you'd think. Really fun too. Sometimes it would misfire. You have a deer infront of you, you pull the trigger and there's just a click. Then you frantically reload. Misfires when there's a creeper coming at you would be no fun but blowing away a zombie and then reloading while another one is coming at you would be fun.
Also, how does it reload, an animation that needs finished before shooting, a simple delay, or other?
No, muskets didn't fire contained ammunition cartridges. Those weren't invented yet. A modern cartridge is a metal shell that contains the powder and bullet. When the firing pin hits the back of the bullet, mercury fulminate, which is very sensitive, ignites. That in turn ignites the powder, producing a large amount of gas, expelling the bullet with great force. The first guns where loaded manually by pouring the powder down the barrel and then the bullet, perhaps with a wad to keep everything from rolling out. It was rammed down to make everything nice and compact. Then, a smoldering match was lowered through a touch hole to ignite the powder. Putting a small pan at the touch hole that could hold priming powder made igniting the charge more reliable.
A big improvement in reloading firearms long before the invention of the integrated metallic cartridge was the paper cartridge.
It combines the powder, wadding and bullet into a single package. Instead of carrying a powder horn, bag of bullets and wadding, you just carry a bunch of cartridges together. You bite open the cartridge, pour a bit of powder into the pan, pour the rest down the barrel, then the bullet, ram it down, cock the musket, aim and fire.
There are a few steps but it could be simplified for an animation.
I like this, maybe insted of bullets in your inventory you could have these things? And you could craft the bullet and some powder along with paper in the Workbench?
Somewhat like this:
I like this, maybe insted of bullets in your inventory you could have these things? And you could craft the bullet and some powder along with paper in the Workbench?
Somewhat like this:
Exactly. You prepare your cartridges yourself, the firearm is reloaded from the cartridges in your inventory. I think that going into your inventory to reload would be very bad. It would suck the fun out of it completely. You should just have to press R or something. You see your hand drop something down the barrel, you see it ram, six seconds after you start to reload you can fire another shot. Click once, you cock the musket. Click once more, you pull the trigger. *snap ssss bang!* Dead zombie/spider/creeper/skeleton. Will that make things too easy? No, you can already fire 10 arrows a second. Killing a single mob will not be easier, just faster. Fighting five regular mobs with the musket would be near suicidal though. And remember, there are going to be boss mobs later.
The main problem with muskets is that they aren't really medieval, particularly flintlocks with paper cartridges. Basically muskets and arquebuses are what made bows completely obsolete.
going directly from this
to this
Compared to bows they would have insane range, insane damage, and insane accuracy, not to mention that are likely to be cheaper to maintain and use.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, after enjoying Minecraft for a long time I finally broke down and contributed back: exactly one adventure map. TRY IT NOW! YAY! Fall of Kingdoms
The main problem with muskets is that they aren't really medieval, particularly flintlocks with paper cartridges. Basically muskets and arquebuses are what made bows completely obsolete.
going directly from this
to this
Compared to bows they would have insane range, insane damage, and insane accuracy, not to mention that are likely to be cheaper to maintain and use.
The Musket is going to be VEERY expensive to make and to maintain compared to the bow
Your average player is not gonna get enough recourses for the Musket until later. Plus, the Bow is all rapid fire and spits out around 10 arrows per second, and is muuuuch more economic, requiring only 3 sticticks and 2 string for the bow and 1 flint, 1 stick, and 1 feather for the arrow. The Musket will take 3 Steel for the Barrel, 6 Steel and 1 Flint for the trigger, and 4 Wood and 3 Sticks for the Stock. Also, The musket does 1 bullet and needs to be reloaded, compared to the 10 arrow/second of the bow. Besides, When did anyone say minecraft was midievil? I doubt Minecarts and Zombie Pigs and Floating-Fire-Spitting-Jelyfish and Portals to hell were mideivel(somebody sig that).
The Musket is going to be VEERY expensive to make and to maintain compared to the bow
Your average player is not gonna get enough recourses for the Musket until later. Plus, the Bow is all rapid fire and spits out around 10 arrows per second, and is muuuuch more economic, requiring only 3 sticticks and 2 string for the bow and 1 flint, 1 stick, and 1 feather for the arrow. The Musket will take 3 Steel for the Barrel, 6 Steel and 1 Flint for the trigger, and 4 Wood and 3 Sticks for the Stock. Also, The musket does 1 bullet and needs to be reloaded, compared to the 10 arrow/second of the bow. Besides, When did anyone say minecraft was midievil? I dobt Minecarts and Zombie Pigs and Floating-Fire-Spitting-Jelyfish and Portals to hell were mideivel(somebody sig that).
For this game the cost of items is a very poor balancing. Within a few hours good players are already going to have all their tools and armor made out of diamonds along with tons of iron and gunpowder stored away. All that does is deny a vital factor of the game to the players that aren't hard-core.
Currently the swords, armor, and bows designate the game's combat as a medieval theme. If you didn't care about role-playing that to some degree you wouldn't be arguing for old-timey firearms in the first place. Might as well add modern assault rifles that cost 50 diamonds to make and are nerfed to the level of airsoft guns.
Quote from muncher21 »
Muskets had insane accuracy? who knew.
Compared to bows yes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, after enjoying Minecraft for a long time I finally broke down and contributed back: exactly one adventure map. TRY IT NOW! YAY! Fall of Kingdoms
The Musket is going to be VEERY expensive to make and to maintain compared to the bow
Your average player is not gonna get enough recourses for the Musket until later. Plus, the Bow is all rapid fire and spits out around 10 arrows per second, and is muuuuch more economic, requiring only 3 sticticks and 2 string for the bow and 1 flint, 1 stick, and 1 feather for the arrow. The Musket will take 3 Steel for the Barrel, 6 Steel and 1 Flint for the trigger, and 4 Wood and 3 Sticks for the Stock. Also, The musket does 1 bullet and needs to be reloaded, compared to the 10 arrow/second of the bow. Besides, When did anyone say minecraft was midievil? I dobt Minecarts and Zombie Pigs and Floating-Fire-Spitting-Jelyfish and Portals to hell were mideivel(somebody sig that).
For this game the cost of items is a very poor balancing. Within a few hours good players are already going to have all their tools and armor made out of diamonds along with tons of iron and gunpowder stored away. All that does is deny a vital factor of the game to the players that aren't hard-core.
Currently the swords, armor, and bows designate the game's combat as a medieval theme. If you didn't care about role-playing that to some degree you wouldn't be arguing for old-timey firearms in the first place. Might as well add modern assault rifles that cost 50 diamonds to make and are nerfed to the level of airsoft guns.
Quote from muncher21 »
Muskets had insane accuracy? who knew.
Compared to bows yes.
I don't understand your logic, cause not everyone is so beastly to have a full set of diamond armor in 1 hour. And what does role playing have to do with this? I am suggesting this because it would fit perfectly into Minecraft and be a balanced weapon. Minecraft really isn't that mideivil, it's more of a survival-type theme. Would you make an Assault Rifle or a bow if it was YOUR first night on an island filled with mobs?
Oh and for the record, the Muskets only gonna be a LITTLE BIT more accurate than the bow, for damage reasons. Though I admit I'm not too hot on the idea of 1-hit kills
Currently the swords, armor, and bows designate the game's combat as a medieval theme. If you didn't care about role-playing that to some degree you wouldn't be arguing for old-timey firearms in the first place. Might as well add modern assault rifles that cost 50 diamonds to make and are nerfed to the level of airsoft guns.
Quote from muncher21 »
Muskets had insane accuracy? who knew.
Compared to bows yes.
1) The game already has an assault rifle, its the called the Bow and Arrows, or "Mac-10 and Arrows" as I call it. It fires at a rate of 300 rounds per minute, and does 10 DPS. When SMP adds damage to the game, players are going to be circle strafing with it and all you guys who scream Modern Warfare at any slight mention of a gun are going to be getting laughed at by me.
2) The medieval argument doesn't hold water. TNT and mine carts weren't around in medieval times, neither were blue jeans and teal t-shirts (what your character wears by default). Further, Minecraft is a fantasy game with a fantasy setting, it does not comply with any specific time period. Even if the game was set in medieval times, arquebus's were in fact around during that time period, so the medieval argument still doesn't hold water.
3) Again, I'll repeat myself, the Musket does not need to be overly expensive to either build, or make ammo for in order to make it balanced. The balance comes in the fact that it is a slow firing, high damage, long ranged weapon instead of a rapid firing, low damage, medium ranged weapon like the Bow. If you notice, the reloading procedure, the cocking procedure, and the slight delay between click and fire make this weapon finely balanced on their own. DIFFERENT, NOT BETTER OR WORSE.
4) The bow and arrows are not inaccurate at all, they simply have a parabolic trajectory. They do not shoot off in random directions when you fire them, even if you fire them at the max rate. They always go right where they should given the angle of the shot and where the player is aiming.
I think a lot of you anti-gun people are afraid that somehow if there's a musket in the game then EVERYONE will use nothing but muskets and you'll be outmatched with your precious bow. Nothing could be further from the truth. If Notch added a minigun to the game that was cheap to build and bullets were plentiful, I could understand your fears, both on the balance and theme side of the argument. However, these various musket/arquebus/flint lock designs are far from being anything like that, so quit worrying so much and support us. Nobody with any sense at all wants to add some overpowered monstrosity to the game.
PS: That argument about the assault rifles is a slippery slope argument and as such is a fallacy. Just because one thing happens does not mean it necessarily leads to other more extreme things.
Currently the swords, armor, and bows designate the game's combat as a medieval theme. If you didn't care about role-playing that to some degree you wouldn't be arguing for old-timey firearms in the first place. Might as well add modern assault rifles that cost 50 diamonds to make and are nerfed to the level of airsoft guns.
Quote from muncher21 »
Muskets had insane accuracy? who knew.
Compared to bows yes.
1) The game already has an assault rifle, its the called the Bow and Arrows, or "Mac-10 and Arrows" as I call it. It fires at a rate of 300 rounds per minute, and does 10 DPS. When SMP adds damage to the game, players are going to be circle strafing with it and all you guys who scream Modern Warfare at any slight mention of a gun are going to be getting laughed at by me.
2) The medieval argument doesn't hold water. TNT and mine carts weren't around in medieval times, neither were blue jeans and teal t-shirts (what your character wears by default). Further, Minecraft is a fantasy game with a fantasy setting, it does not comply with any specific time period. Even if the game was set in medieval times, arquebus's were in fact around during that time period, so the medieval argument still doesn't hold water.
3) Again, I'll repeat myself, the Musket does not need to be overly expensive to either build, or make ammo for in order to make it balanced. The balance comes in the fact that it is a slow firing, high damage, long ranged weapon instead of a rapid firing, low damage, medium ranged weapon like the Bow. If you notice, the reloading procedure, the cocking procedure, and the slight delay between click and fire make this weapon finely balanced on their own. DIFFERENT, NOT BETTER OR WORSE.
4) The bow and arrows are not inaccurate at all, they simply have a parabolic trajectory. They do not shoot off in random directions when you fire them, even if you fire them at the max rate. They always go right where they should given the angle of the shot and where the player is aiming.
I think a lot of you anti-gun people are afraid that somehow if there's a musket in the game then EVERYONE will use nothing but muskets and you'll be outmatched with your precious bow. Nothing could be further from the truth. If Notch added a minigun to the game that was cheap to build and bullets were plentiful, I could understand your fears, both on the balance and theme side of the argument. However, these various musket/arquebus/flint lock designs are far from being anything like that, so quit worrying so much and support us. Nobody with any sense at all wants to add some overpowered monstrosity to the game.
PS: That argument about the assault rifles is a slippery slope argument and as such is a fallacy. Just because one thing happens does not mean it necessarily leads to other more extreme things.
Gentlemen, we already have a thread for just about all things relating to guns. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21507
It would be acceptable to post your ideas and thoughts in there, but it would also be great if you read what has been said in the thread already as well. Folks have poured over game balance issues and such many times over. The issue is not so much the crafting combinations, but rather the effects guns have on game balance.
but the idea of having a little extra range on the baddies out there would be good once i can get fully rid of java to reinstall it.
Bows obviously works differently, but because Muskets are greatly at a disadvantage in speed, it gains an advantage in power and range (not accuracy, it strays after some distance, but it flies straighter and further than an arrow).
Musket's damage can be power over range, so the further it flies, the weaker it gets. Using it to snipe isn't as good as a bow.
Personally, I'd rather get a crossbow before a musket should exist.
But all these new weapons are much better off being mods (for roleplaying servers, towns, defenses etc.), while notch focuses on main components.
Maybe.... but what would be less annoying? Having to wait 'till a reloading animation is finished in order to fire again, or having to drag and drop a bullet?
HOLY ****! HELL JUST FROZE OVER! muncher likes something! :tongue.gif: There is a whole big thread somewhere out there that encompasses all the gun ideas. Couldn't find it in the search though. . .
I think that the bullet should move about 5x faster than the arrow. Maybe faster, but you should sorta be able to see the bullet travel from the gun to the target. Just like you see an arrow fly.
Makes 1 UNLOADED Musket:
[] [] []
Makes 4 "Musket Bullets:"
[] []
[] []
This way, each shot costs 1 iron ingot, which is plenty expensive in my opinion.
To fire the musket:
1) Put the UNLOADED MUSKET + MUSKET BULLET into the 2x2 crafting pane, press craft, and it makes a LOADED MUSKET.
2) Put LOADED MUSKET to the quick bar and select.
3) Click once to cock the musket (takes between 1-2 seconds).
4) Click again to fire (makes the sssssss BOOM creeper sound effect [1-2 seconds delay between click and fire])
Game Mechanics:
-Even with 10 LOADED MUSKETS in the quick bar, delay would still be between 2-4 seconds per shot (the cocking action and the fuse delay), then the player would have to reload some/all of their muskets to be able to fire another salvo.
-The "musket bullet" would exit the firearm at a speed of 40m/s (the max speed in Minecraft) and follow a flat trajectory.
-Optimal range for the musket would be up to 70 tiles (meters), and the falloff would be another 20 tiles.
a) At Optimal + Falloff (90 tiles/meters) the musket would do 0 damage.
:cool.gif: At Optimal (<=70 tiles/meters) the musket would do 6 hearts damage to unarmored and 5 hearts + 1.5-2 armor damage to armored targets (still perfectly "tankable" by a melee character with a few cooked pork in the inventory).
c) In Falloff (not Fallout :tongue.gif:), musket damage would drop by a percentage until reaching 0 at Optimal (70) + Falloff (20).
d) At 90 tiles/meters, the "musket bullet" would simply disappear, unrecoverable.
-Once fired, the LOADED MUSKET would disappear and an UNLOADED MUSKET would be placed in players inventory.
-Once fired, a quick flash and several smoke blocks would spawn in the trajectory of the shot near the player, slightly hindering vision for a few seconds.
These suggestions make a perfectly reasonable weapon addition to the game. The musket has enough positives (longer range, more damage, flat trajectory) and enough reasonable negatives to balance the firearm in with other aspects of the game. The key to comparing it with the Bow is to keep in mind that it is different not better. Further, the mechanic of placing the unloaded musket in the crafting bar with a bullet is a cool little way of doing it that is more involving than simply waiting to shoot again.
This is an expensive item at best, so I would say that you would need to have some advantage over a bow for this. Lets not call it a musket lets call it a flint lock ( and they were quite accurate) it would take down a monster in one shot but it would have a very large reload time, also it would attract the attention of monsters to you. So one shot then you better get a sword or a bow ready or hope you got one all by its self.
For this you would have to use a gun powder and an iron bar to make the bullet to help balance out this power with such a strong weapon. I would give it the same drop speed as the arrow but make it much faster that would be, in a ballistic sense, accurate.
No, muskets didn't fire contained ammunition cartridges. Those weren't invented yet. A modern cartridge is a metal shell that contains the powder and bullet. When the firing pin hits the back of the bullet, mercury fulminate, which is very sensitive, ignites. That in turn ignites the powder, producing a large amount of gas, expelling the bullet with great force. The first guns where loaded manually by pouring the powder down the barrel and then the bullet, perhaps with a wad to keep everything from rolling out. It was rammed down to make everything nice and compact. Then, a smoldering match was lowered through a touch hole to ignite the powder. Putting a small pan at the touch hole that could hold priming powder made igniting the charge more reliable. Later, the muskets had flintlock mechanisms. An arm holding a piece of flint would snap down onto a piece of metal creating a shower of sparks. Since there is a flint and iron I see no reason why there shouldn't be flintlocks.
A big improvement in reloading firearms long before the invention of the integrated metallic cartridge was the paper cartridge.
It combines the powder, wadding and bullet into a single package. Instead of carrying a powder horn, bag of bullets and wadding, you just carry a bunch of cartridges together. You bite open the cartridge, pour a bit of powder into the pan, pour the rest down the barrel, then the bullet, ram it down, cock the musket, aim and fire.
There are a few steps but it could be simplified for an animation.
Well, i was thinking, to make it more convenient yet still balanced, that it could be something to where you could have 1 slot in your inventory with Musket Balls, and 1 slot in your Hotbar with the actual Musket. When you fire, there could be either an animation or just plainly a delay between shots. And as for the suggested ammo, it was actually like that originally, but i changed it (we don't want this to take TOO many recourses, now do we?)
I played a hunting game that had a black powder, muzzle loading rifle. It took about six seconds to reload but it wasn't as bad as you'd think. Really fun too. Sometimes it would misfire. You have a deer infront of you, you pull the trigger and there's just a click. Then you frantically reload. Misfires when there's a creeper coming at you would be no fun but blowing away a zombie and then reloading while another one is coming at you would be fun.
Frantic reloading is really fun in games.
I like this, maybe insted of bullets in your inventory you could have these things? And you could craft the bullet and some powder along with paper in the Workbench?
Somewhat like this:
]" title="-<->" /> = Paper
= Bullet
]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" />
]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" />
]" title="-<->" /> ]" title="-<->" />
Exactly. You prepare your cartridges yourself, the firearm is reloaded from the cartridges in your inventory. I think that going into your inventory to reload would be very bad. It would suck the fun out of it completely. You should just have to press R or something. You see your hand drop something down the barrel, you see it ram, six seconds after you start to reload you can fire another shot. Click once, you cock the musket. Click once more, you pull the trigger. *snap ssss bang!* Dead zombie/spider/creeper/skeleton. Will that make things too easy? No, you can already fire 10 arrows a second. Killing a single mob will not be easier, just faster. Fighting five regular mobs with the musket would be near suicidal though. And remember, there are going to be boss mobs later.
going directly from this
to this
Compared to bows they would have insane range, insane damage, and insane accuracy, not to mention that are likely to be cheaper to maintain and use.
The Musket is going to be VEERY expensive to make and to maintain compared to the bow
Your average player is not gonna get enough recourses for the Musket until later. Plus, the Bow is all rapid fire and spits out around 10 arrows per second, and is muuuuch more economic, requiring only 3 sticticks and 2 string for the bow and 1 flint, 1 stick, and 1 feather for the arrow. The Musket will take 3 Steel for the Barrel, 6 Steel and 1 Flint for the trigger, and 4 Wood and 3 Sticks for the Stock. Also, The musket does 1 bullet and needs to be reloaded, compared to the 10 arrow/second of the bow. Besides, When did anyone say minecraft was midievil? I doubt Minecarts and Zombie Pigs and Floating-Fire-Spitting-Jelyfish and Portals to hell were mideivel(somebody sig that).
For this game the cost of items is a very poor balancing. Within a few hours good players are already going to have all their tools and armor made out of diamonds along with tons of iron and gunpowder stored away. All that does is deny a vital factor of the game to the players that aren't hard-core.
Currently the swords, armor, and bows designate the game's combat as a medieval theme. If you didn't care about role-playing that to some degree you wouldn't be arguing for old-timey firearms in the first place. Might as well add modern assault rifles that cost 50 diamonds to make and are nerfed to the level of airsoft guns.
Compared to bows yes.
I don't understand your logic, cause not everyone is so beastly to have a full set of diamond armor in 1 hour. And what does role playing have to do with this? I am suggesting this because it would fit perfectly into Minecraft and be a balanced weapon. Minecraft really isn't that mideivil, it's more of a survival-type theme. Would you make an Assault Rifle or a bow if it was YOUR first night on an island filled with mobs?
Oh and for the record, the Muskets only gonna be a LITTLE BIT more accurate than the bow, for damage reasons. Though I admit I'm not too hot on the idea of 1-hit kills
1) The game already has an assault rifle, its the called the Bow and Arrows, or "Mac-10 and Arrows" as I call it. It fires at a rate of 300 rounds per minute, and does 10 DPS. When SMP adds damage to the game, players are going to be circle strafing with it and all you guys who scream Modern Warfare at any slight mention of a gun are going to be getting laughed at by me.
2) The medieval argument doesn't hold water. TNT and mine carts weren't around in medieval times, neither were blue jeans and teal t-shirts (what your character wears by default). Further, Minecraft is a fantasy game with a fantasy setting, it does not comply with any specific time period. Even if the game was set in medieval times, arquebus's were in fact around during that time period, so the medieval argument still doesn't hold water.
3) Again, I'll repeat myself, the Musket does not need to be overly expensive to either build, or make ammo for in order to make it balanced. The balance comes in the fact that it is a slow firing, high damage, long ranged weapon instead of a rapid firing, low damage, medium ranged weapon like the Bow. If you notice, the reloading procedure, the cocking procedure, and the slight delay between click and fire make this weapon finely balanced on their own. DIFFERENT, NOT BETTER OR WORSE.
4) The bow and arrows are not inaccurate at all, they simply have a parabolic trajectory. They do not shoot off in random directions when you fire them, even if you fire them at the max rate. They always go right where they should given the angle of the shot and where the player is aiming.
I think a lot of you anti-gun people are afraid that somehow if there's a musket in the game then EVERYONE will use nothing but muskets and you'll be outmatched with your precious bow. Nothing could be further from the truth. If Notch added a minigun to the game that was cheap to build and bullets were plentiful, I could understand your fears, both on the balance and theme side of the argument. However, these various musket/arquebus/flint lock designs are far from being anything like that, so quit worrying so much and support us. Nobody with any sense at all wants to add some overpowered monstrosity to the game.
PS: That argument about the assault rifles is a slippery slope argument and as such is a fallacy. Just because one thing happens does not mean it necessarily leads to other more extreme things.
(1) I wholly agree
(2) I agree even more
(3) It won't be THAT expensive, either
(4) I think i agree :tongue.gif:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21507
It would be acceptable to post your ideas and thoughts in there, but it would also be great if you read what has been said in the thread already as well. Folks have poured over game balance issues and such many times over. The issue is not so much the crafting combinations, but rather the effects guns have on game balance.