A thought occurred to me for a method of generating ruins in an Alpha single player (though nothing to stop from multiplayer) is to take a chunk of map from a saved game and "ruin" it.
Take a chunk of the map, throw it in and make a few automated changes. Extinguish all torches, turn the lava to coblestone 75% of the time, say 50% of all wooden objects or glass cubes should be destroyed, remove all crops, turn 10% of all cobblestone bricks to gravel, randomly bury over a portion with a new dirt hill, then plant a bunch of trees on exposed dirt. Perhaps place a few monster spawners in there as well.
And make this area start far away from the spawn point.
Instant logical dungeon that is eerily familiar and yet still very dangerous.
A thought occurred to me for a method of generating ruins in an Alpha single player (though nothing to stop from multiplayer) is to take a chunk of map from a saved game and "ruin" it.
Take a chunk of the map, throw it in and make a few automated changes. Extinguish all torches, turn the lava to coblestone 75% of the time, say 50% of all wooden objects or glass cubes should be destroyed, remove all crops, turn 10% of all cobblestone bricks to gravel, randomly bury over a portion with a new dirt hill, then plant a bunch of trees on exposed dirt. Perhaps place a few monster spawners in there as well.
And make this area start far away from the spawn point.
Instant logical dungeon that is eerily familiar and yet still very dangerous.
I like this idea, thou how would game know which parts art player structure?
A thought occurred to me for a method of generating ruins in an Alpha single player (though nothing to stop from multiplayer) is to take a chunk of map from a saved game and "ruin" it.
Take a chunk of the map, throw it in and make a few automated changes. Extinguish all torches, turn the lava to coblestone 75% of the time, say 50% of all wooden objects or glass cubes should be destroyed, remove all crops, turn 10% of all cobblestone bricks to gravel, randomly bury over a portion with a new dirt hill, then plant a bunch of trees on exposed dirt. Perhaps place a few monster spawners in there as well.
And make this area start far away from the spawn point.
Instant logical dungeon that is eerily familiar and yet still very dangerous.
I like this idea, thou how would game know which parts art player structure?
You wouldn't have to. He's just saying take an Entire Chunk (probably near the spawn point) of another map, make it possible to be generated in another map, then apply the passing time effect.
That is a neat idea! I like it mucho. You could have a lot of nifty things going on there.
Yeah, it's irrelevant whether the player built it or not when you're taking a chunk of map and tweaking it. It's really just blockswaps and some dirt layering at the "work involved" level. The editing is just done on a piece of map that's already had something cool on it you built (or someone else, there's basically billions of chunks you could use). I think this would be relatively easy to do just with some time in one of the editors floating around here. If you were super bored you could take some huge SMP map and ruin one of those cities that are out there. Ooooo ruined city.... imagine cresting a hill and seeing that! Oboy. :biggrin.gif:
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Quote from will_holmes »
Quote from anon »
Every time I come to these forums, I think more and more that I'm the only person who plays Minecraft normally.
Every time I come to these forums, I think more and more that there is no such thing as playing Minecraft normally.
Transition between old chunk and new chunk = bane of Notch. He said stuff like this is the reason we don't have biomes yet. :tongue.gif: I doubt it's as simple as you think.
Transition between old chunk and new chunk = bane of Notch. He said stuff like this is the reason we don't have biomes yet. :tongue.gif: I doubt it's as simple as you think.
I was thinking mostly of doing the edit manually, because my brain said "RUINS YAAAAAY". But yeah, I can see that being a ***** to implement into the actual coding. Which is what the OP was probably about... >_____>
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Quote from will_holmes »
Quote from anon »
Every time I come to these forums, I think more and more that I'm the only person who plays Minecraft normally.
Every time I come to these forums, I think more and more that there is no such thing as playing Minecraft normally.
"Lalalala.... Holy crap it's a building! Wait... That look familiar... I'll go explore. Hmm, this looks like my other map... Hey why are there only two chests in the storage room? And what's this cage thing? OH GOD SPIDER DIE DIE DIE"
Yep, I'd love that, Especially if dungeons were more common in ruins. Also, another percentage of cobblestone should be turned to mossy cobblestone.
Strictly speaking the transition is the hard part, the actual determining of new chunk is comparatively easy, this would just be swapping out the pre-existing randomly generated chunk for a systemically-ruined existing chunk at a given point.
I think the system could be broken down into portions really, for example:
[*:3bby521v]Remove blocks next to blocks significantly full of water at, say, a 35% chance each (Creating interior flooding)
[*:3bby521v]Replace stone blocks near cobblestone with cobblestone blocks at 20% chance each
[*:3bby521v]Replace cobblestone blocks with mossy cobblestone based on proximity to water, grass, and mossy cobblestone at a 60% chance each (Creates overgrown building look)
[*:3bby521v]Remove blocks with nothing underneath them at 35% chance each, +5% per empty block around them on the same level (Causes roofs to collapse)
[*:3bby521v]From the vertical, add dirt and sand as appropriate to the surrounding terrain to an similarly appropriate depth. (Fills in collapsed roofs and disguises ruined building in with the landscape
[*:3bby521v]Extinguish 60% of remaining torches in the area (Could cause airlocks to activate as well, but also creates patchy lighting inside)
[*:3bby521v]Insert monster spawners in areas of appropriate darkness and space In theory using this method you could be mining and stumble upon a seemingly-ancient structure with intelligent architecture, perhaps barely recognisable to something you once built yourself, until it was too late at least.
Still, imagine coming upon something that looks like a ruined version of, say, one of your biggest fortresses. That would be some psychological hurt long before the monsters turned up.
I can see it now. Your walking along and you end up finding some ruins, first you think nothing of them but then it dawns on you, this was your first base that you lost when the save file got corrupted and you had to delete it. you tear up slightly on reunion with this nostalgic place when you reminisce about your first diamond pickaxe or when you found your first dungeon.
its a good idea but im wondering how minecraft would be able to detect your base.
It doesn't specifically need to know where your base ends or doesn't. It could get a chunk of no base (in which case you would never know), it could grab only part of your base (and have some gaping holes that was once a covered skywalk that now leads nowhere).
If it doesn't mesh up with the ground..just smooth it into a sloping hill/pit.
One way to solve the "meshing" problem may be as followed.
First, it determine if it wants to generate a ruin.
If so, then it first place the ruin where it is (with a gradual transition, as less and less block further out from the actual ruin).
Damage said ruin.
Generate the terrain around it (and if there's a cave, carve into it somewhat).
That way, the ruin looks like it has been left there for a while, and is being weathered/buried (this would also be an interesting storyline, as every player's old saves are essentially still there, but slowly get buried).
An even better one is to grab a large section of your old map, and simply erode/subside the whole map and generate the new world on top of it (erode mean that your old structure is likely part of the mountain, subside means its likely buried).
What would also be interesting if some ruins could be buried. If the original base is low enough in respect to the surrounding terrain, it gets covered in dirt. Then you might accidentally dig into it, find the cobblestone, and excavate the ancient structure.
As I haven't played enough to measure, is "ground level" always the same distance from bedrock? If not then ruins might bury themselves automatically
The "water-level" is always 64 tiles from bed-rock, the issue is that MOST flat ground aren't at water level (from what I see they're mostly 2~5 tiles above water-level).
Extra awesome: if this decay percent was actually a sliding scale rather than just 'destroy 50% of the glass', so you could slide up the age bar to determine just how ruined it was. At 100% nearly everything woudl be gone but a few chunks of gravel and mossy cobblestone. At 10% it would be mostly intact with a few mob spawners and broken windows/rotten wood.
Then, for triple awesome, allow a serverside variable to be activated that tracks how long a chunk has gone without being visited by a player. After server-set "x" time, the decay percentage rachets up 5%. Imagine leaving, starting a new megaproject, and returning to find a nest of spiders residing in your throne room and one of your walls collapsed. Note that this would have to be optional: I know I wouldn't want this on all my maps.
It sounds like you are envisioning a system where your existing map degrades without you, which is not what I am suggesting. Personally I would find that annoying.
What I am suggesting is that when a brand new map is generated (a new game), it will look through your own games and pull out a chunk (Say the chunk near the spawn in that game) and dump it in this new one as a degraded ruin.
This does not mean something you are building will degrade, it means that something you built in another game will be available for you to re-explore.
It would be also neat (depending on feasability) if it was able to grab save files from other people for truly unique and unexplored ruins , but that may be a far more technically difficult challenge.
This method I describe would be easier to program (though it may be a resource hog when degrading)
If it didn't scan for "man made" it wouldn't harm anything, it would just reduce the chance of a ruin (since some of the time the "ruin" would turn out to be just mush, or a mine etc. Making it more epic when you found one.
Make it an option that is tucked away in the respawn screen when you die. You have the option of respawning, exiting, or in this case; Regenerate Map.
I don't really see why it would be so hard to track player changes. Just make sure that when a map generates, it generates to 2 files: one goes to the file that the player actually accesses and changes, and the other file is kept separate and only ever retains the information that section of the map initially generated with. When the player chooses to regenerate the map, the two maps will be compared to determine what changes the player made, and weather down sections where appropriate, to allow the terrain to feel unfamiliar at first and the deja vu to slowly sink in as you play further.
It sounds like you are envisioning a system where your existing map degrades without you, which is not what I am suggesting. Personally I would find that annoying.
What I am suggesting is that when a brand new map is generated (a new game), it will look through your own games and pull out a chunk (Say the chunk near the spawn in that game) and dump it in this new one as a degraded ruin.
This does not mean something you are building will degrade, it means that something you built in another game will be available for you to re-explore.
It would be also neat (depending on feasability) if it was able to grab save files from other people for truly unique and unexplored ruins , but that may be a far more technically difficult challenge.
This method I describe would be easier to program (though it may be a resource hog when degrading)
I know what you were suggesting. My 'triple awesome' addon was that I'd like the serverside settable option to cause structures to degrade if you left them unattended. It wouldn't be activated by default, except perhaps in Adventure mode.
Note that this would have to be optional: I know I wouldn't want this on all my maps.
The other thing I was describing was the ability to specifically import maps, as described above, and then adjust decay sliders to determine how ruined they were, from very ruined to just a little ruined. I thought it was phrased fairly clearly...
Take a chunk of the map, throw it in and make a few automated changes. Extinguish all torches, turn the lava to coblestone 75% of the time, say 50% of all wooden objects or glass cubes should be destroyed, remove all crops, turn 10% of all cobblestone bricks to gravel, randomly bury over a portion with a new dirt hill, then plant a bunch of trees on exposed dirt. Perhaps place a few monster spawners in there as well.
And make this area start far away from the spawn point.
Instant logical dungeon that is eerily familiar and yet still very dangerous.
I like this idea, thou how would game know which parts art player structure?
You wouldn't have to. He's just saying take an Entire Chunk (probably near the spawn point) of another map, make it possible to be generated in another map, then apply the passing time effect.
Yeah, it's irrelevant whether the player built it or not when you're taking a chunk of map and tweaking it. It's really just blockswaps and some dirt layering at the "work involved" level. The editing is just done on a piece of map that's already had something cool on it you built (or someone else, there's basically billions of chunks you could use). I think this would be relatively easy to do just with some time in one of the editors floating around here. If you were super bored you could take some huge SMP map and ruin one of those cities that are out there. Ooooo ruined city.... imagine cresting a hill and seeing that! Oboy. :biggrin.gif:
You heard that, green and red.
I was thinking mostly of doing the edit manually, because my brain said "RUINS YAAAAAY". But yeah, I can see that being a ***** to implement into the actual coding. Which is what the OP was probably about... >_____>
Yep, I'd love that, Especially if dungeons were more common in ruins. Also, another percentage of cobblestone should be turned to mossy cobblestone.
I think the system could be broken down into portions really, for example:
[*:3bby521v]Remove blocks next to blocks significantly full of water at, say, a 35% chance each (Creating interior flooding)
In theory using this method you could be mining and stumble upon a seemingly-ancient structure with intelligent architecture, perhaps barely recognisable to something you once built yourself, until it was too late at least.[*:3bby521v]Replace stone blocks near cobblestone with cobblestone blocks at 20% chance each
[*:3bby521v]Replace cobblestone blocks with mossy cobblestone based on proximity to water, grass, and mossy cobblestone at a 60% chance each (Creates overgrown building look)
[*:3bby521v]Remove blocks with nothing underneath them at 35% chance each, +5% per empty block around them on the same level (Causes roofs to collapse)
[*:3bby521v]From the vertical, add dirt and sand as appropriate to the surrounding terrain to an similarly appropriate depth. (Fills in collapsed roofs and disguises ruined building in with the landscape
[*:3bby521v]Extinguish 60% of remaining torches in the area (Could cause airlocks to activate as well, but also creates patchy lighting inside)
[*:3bby521v]Insert monster spawners in areas of appropriate darkness and space
Still, imagine coming upon something that looks like a ruined version of, say, one of your biggest fortresses. That would be some psychological hurt long before the monsters turned up.
its a good idea but im wondering how minecraft would be able to detect your base.
If it doesn't mesh up with the ground..just smooth it into a sloping hill/pit.
First, it determine if it wants to generate a ruin.
If so, then it first place the ruin where it is (with a gradual transition, as less and less block further out from the actual ruin).
Damage said ruin.
Generate the terrain around it (and if there's a cave, carve into it somewhat).
That way, the ruin looks like it has been left there for a while, and is being weathered/buried (this would also be an interesting storyline, as every player's old saves are essentially still there, but slowly get buried).
An even better one is to grab a large section of your old map, and simply erode/subside the whole map and generate the new world on top of it (erode mean that your old structure is likely part of the mountain, subside means its likely buried).
The "water-level" is always 64 tiles from bed-rock, the issue is that MOST flat ground aren't at water level (from what I see they're mostly 2~5 tiles above water-level).
Then, for triple awesome, allow a serverside variable to be activated that tracks how long a chunk has gone without being visited by a player. After server-set "x" time, the decay percentage rachets up 5%. Imagine leaving, starting a new megaproject, and returning to find a nest of spiders residing in your throne room and one of your walls collapsed. Note that this would have to be optional: I know I wouldn't want this on all my maps.
It sounds like you are envisioning a system where your existing map degrades without you, which is not what I am suggesting. Personally I would find that annoying.
What I am suggesting is that when a brand new map is generated (a new game), it will look through your own games and pull out a chunk (Say the chunk near the spawn in that game) and dump it in this new one as a degraded ruin.
This does not mean something you are building will degrade, it means that something you built in another game will be available for you to re-explore.
It would be also neat (depending on feasability) if it was able to grab save files from other people for truly unique and unexplored ruins , but that may be a far more technically difficult challenge.
This method I describe would be easier to program (though it may be a resource hog when degrading)
I don't really see why it would be so hard to track player changes. Just make sure that when a map generates, it generates to 2 files: one goes to the file that the player actually accesses and changes, and the other file is kept separate and only ever retains the information that section of the map initially generated with. When the player chooses to regenerate the map, the two maps will be compared to determine what changes the player made, and weather down sections where appropriate, to allow the terrain to feel unfamiliar at first and the deja vu to slowly sink in as you play further.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
I know what you were suggesting. My 'triple awesome' addon was that I'd like the serverside settable option to cause structures to degrade if you left them unattended. It wouldn't be activated by default, except perhaps in Adventure mode.
The other thing I was describing was the ability to specifically import maps, as described above, and then adjust decay sliders to determine how ruined they were, from very ruined to just a little ruined. I thought it was phrased fairly clearly...