Weapon Name Damage Range Speed Knockback Other Notes
Battleaxe 125 +1 -2 +1 Also chops wood
Caltrops 1/sec ---- ---- ---- Placed as Snow
Cestus 100 +0 +0 +3 Stun +1
Javelin 75 10-20 -1 +0 Thrown; 25% Break, Retrievable
Knife 50 +0 +3 +0 Very Fast!
Shuriken 75 12-25 +0 +0 Thrown; Consumed on Hit
Spear 75 +3 +0 +0 Throwable
Thrown 75 7-15 +0 +3 -3 Durability when thrown
Sword 100 +1 +0 +0 It's a sword.
Tomahawk 75 +0 +2 +0 +10% Move Speed
Thrown 75 10-20 +2 +2 -3 Durability when thrown
Trident Note Note +0 +0 Sea Weapon. On land, as Javelin.
In sea, 125% damage; 15-30 range.
Warhammer 200 +2 -5 +2 Sloooooow.
Yo-Yo 50 +5 -3 +1 Also slow, but with reach.
[/quote]
Now that i have steady internet I can type a real argument to this thread. I'll go down the list of weapons and explain how they work, or more often don't.
Battle axe- Ok cool. more damage, less range but more speed. The speed should be brought down to zero because for 25% more damage then a sword (assuming swords do 100) extra speed is very op.
caltrop- why not? cool trap idea.
Cestus- Really? stun? SO i hit someone, then while there stunned I move into position to attack again. Real fair right? and since when did punching someone (even with brass or wooden knuckles) hurt a person the same amount as a sword? Should do 50 damage and -5 range.
Javalin- Good idea. The crafting recipe should use flint instead of wood so when new arrow types are added there could be new javelin types similar to the arrow types.
knife- Why? when will i ever be in the situation where i have one wood instead of two? Never that's when. Bad pointless idea. No point weapon.
Shuriken- a Javelin fills this better. why use a consumable weapon when I have a non-consumable weapon? Pointless.
Spear- ok cool sounds good. should have less speed though.
Tomahawk- see Shuriken. same argument, and +ten move speed? really? How does a Tomahawk do that?
Trident- NO just no..... dumb stupid pointless weapon. Just use a sword for same damage out of water and in water!
Warhammer- To strong, should have less reach, and do 150 damage
Yo-yo- Wh- wh- why? why does this have more reach then a spear? Why is this a weapon? Why would this be suggested?
While i ,]may have seemed to like some of these ideas, I one have one argument that all of these are subject too (except the javelin that one was good).
Lets say hypothetically I suggested a food item called rye. you would find seeds by hoeing the dirt for them plant them then wait for them to grow, craft four together and get rye bread. It would heal 3 hearts. I would get internet slapped and people would say "This is just bread that heals .5 more hearts.". And they would be correct.
For multiple food items to work, they should all be completely different. If two were obtained in similar ways, the two items should each fill a necessary niche in the game. For example if corn was grown like wheat, there should be multiple crafting recipes that use corn that make wheat necessary instead of wheat.
SO now your saying, "lol bro this isn't the farmcraft topic!". Well all of these rules should apply to weapons.
Each weapon should be unique and fill a specific niche in combat. Most of these are just swords that do a little more damage or slash a bit faster. My challenge to you is make up a weapon idea that would feel and play COMPLETELY different then a sword or bow and arrow. And small tweaks in stats do not make it feel or play differently.
For those who wouldn't or couldn't read this wall of text here's my main point.
If a weapon is just a sword or bow and arrow with small stat tweaks, it has no right to be in the game. If a weapon has different balanced features that make it feel and play differently then a sword or bow and arrow it has a right to be in the game.
so that's it /rant.
Read it people.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
-_-'
I think we've gone over how these "slight" changes don't really add much to the game.. They don't have any weapon mechanics at all... Sure the minor tweaks might make some mobs easier to fight, but not enough to warrant adding them.
The only idea that I think is good here is the glove-slot, which could nomally be just an armor slot; but if you wanted you could swap out more armor for a stronger punch.
I agree. Though, spear definitely has a lot of potential imo, especially if it could be thrown. Would be able to create a near-totally new ranged playstyle (differing from the bow in that you have a weapon to use in melee which can be used decisively at range, rather than spammed.) They shouldn't stack at all, making the choices involved a lot more important.
But yes, cestus as a gloves equip is a really good idea. As I said before, make it boost your damage in total, or for non-tool/weapon items, like placable blocks.
Weapon Name Damage Range Speed Knockback Other Notes
Battleaxe 75* +1 -2 +1 Damage increase while falling
Caltrops 1* ---- ---- ---- 1/8 block; damage while walking
Cestus 75 +0 +0 +3 Short Stun
Knife 50 +0 +3 +0 Weak! Fast!
Javelin 75 0-15 +0 +0 Thrown, consumable. Stack @ 8
Spear 75 +3 +0 +0 Throwable
Thrown 75 0-15 +0 +3 -3 Durability when thrown
Sword 100 +1 +0 +0 It's a sword.
Warhammer 75* +2 +0 +* Charge attack, see description.
Battleaxe: Normally weaker than the sword, it gains its power from momentum. While running at full speed, does sword damage. While falling, can do up to 4 increments of damage more (25% increments.)
Caltrops: Placed on any normal block, these 1/8 blocks (snow size) deal damage when stepped on (walked over). Originally these were supposed to deal 1 damage (1 heart), but many people think it should be damage equal to a sword strike of that material's level and then the caltrops are gone. The debate continues!
Cestus: This is sort of a "cross" weapon. Half of us want it, half of us don't. More info required to balance and/or delete.
Knife: A fast weapon! Very fast! It does half as much damage as a sword, but can be made without a crafting table. Secondary idea: Same speed as sword, but deals cumulative damage based on how many times you've hit the target with the knife. For example, if a knife were 25% of the sword's damage, the first hit would be just that. The second would be 50%, third 75%, and fourth 100%. All other hits until the mob is killed or hit with something else would deal the full amount per hit.
Javelin: A consumable thrown item that works similar to the bow. Instead of firing arrows, you throw javelins. It has been suggested that, like the battleaxe, damage is increased through momentum. Regardless, each craft is 2 javelins, stacking to 8. The debate continues! I think. Also only deals full damage when thrown. Poking with it is like poking with bacon.
Spear: Most people are saying that the spear should ONLY hit for full damage at it's maximum range. The debate is still continuing, obviously. It can also be thrown just like a javelin.
Sword: The sword. Durr.
Warhammer: Most people said that it costed too much. I lowered the cost. They said 150 was a good amount for the power, so I gave it a "unique" Charge ability in which the user holds down the attack button and a gauge fills. There are 4 mini-gauges which denote damage increments. Inspiration for this ability came from the Earth Shaker weapon suggestion. Also, Knockback and Speed is based on the charge. Maximum charge is 4 square knockback. You can swing it like mad by clicking like mad (like with a sword). The true power is within the charge.
So yeah. Sound about right? Will edit if I forgot something.
I would appreciate it if everyone would stop saying the knife is pointless. It's very pointy, after all. Pun aside, contribute or shush. Seriously, it's annoying.
Javelin is a spear that can only be thrown due to flint, not a good pointy end.
The knife or dagger, incidentally, is actually one of the few new weapons that could stand alone on simply being a "slight variation" weapon, because it is cheaper than a sword and can be crafted in the 2x2 grid.
All the others still suffer from pattern-cost failure. Players are not going to want to spend 5 iron bars to make something that does the same thing that a sword accomplishes for only two, just because it does it "slightly different."
I think the inevitable problem with making these weapon variations is that you have a disconnect between balancing the cost vs the effectiveness of the weapon and balancing the weapon against other weapons. If you balance the weapons based on their material cost, the weapons that require more material than the sword will be overpowered. If you balance them against each other, the sword will always be the best because it requires only two pieces of durability material to get the job done.
If you're going to make a new weapon, it has to fill a completely different niche than the sword and bow or it will fail this cost-vs-effectiveness balance. For this reason, all "new" melee weapons will be bad additions to the game unless they have something to offer that's completely outside the combat system, like how we use flint and steel as a location-based weapon.
It runs on redstone,coal and wood. When its got power it will deal heavy damage with a click to turn it on and a click to turn it off. When it runs out of power( redstone last for about 10 minutes) You can use it as a sword.
troll? no no chainsaw.
Anyways the knife should be 50% damage of the sword and not faster. It should be a emergency weapon when your stuck without lots of materials. If you make it as good as the sword it is better because of less cost.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
It runs on redstone,coal and wood. When its got power it will deal heavy damage with a click to turn it on and a click to turn it off. When it runs out of power( redstone last for about 10 minutes) You can use it as a sword.
troll? no no chainsaw.
Anyways the knife should be 50% damage of the sword and not faster. It should be a emergency weapon when your stuck without lots of materials. If you make it as good as the sword it is better because of less cost.
It's just silly NOT to make it faster, it's a smaller, lighter blade. The disadvantages would be very low knockback and reach, keeping it from being as useful as a sword in some circumstances, like against creepers. However, it might make an excellent pvp weapon in ambushes.
I would appreciate it if everyone would stop saying the knife is pointless. It's very pointy, after all. Pun aside, contribute or shush. Seriously, it's annoying.
I completely agree with this an all of the knifes stats. It's the weapon that I personally would be most excited to see implemented. Unless the combat system was changed or a bunch of new monsters were added, then I would rather the warhammer.
SO first you say the knife isn't varied enough then you say the halberd and Tomahawk are varied? both of those are not varied at all.
The halberd is to replace the spear and sidestep its three problems it would have the same stats
First problem is cost
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VS
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The weapons cant cost more without being worth that spend but then how do you balance them against each other qlmmb2086 covered this well.
Second is the things a spear its intuitive that you can throw it but that would be horribly op
Third one which is a minor problem is it may become a little ambiguous with the javelin
Tomahawk is again conceived with cost in mind and its more unique than a battleaxe if we are going to have war-hammer and its a mele range hybrid that doesn't have reach.
I dont oppose the knife in that it wouldn't be game breaking but I dont see the use for it all it can do is be made cheaper and without a table which is sort of pointless, I haven't and dont dispute its unique though could be made a little more so if held in reverse grip (that's aesthetic but every little thing helps right).
War-hammer needs some justification for being so expensive double the cost of a sword.
Also no comments on obsidian tips for arrows/ javelins
I don't see how a tomahawk is more unique than a battleaxe.
Your idea for the tomahawk is that it can be throw and it costs more to make than a bow and arrow.... why do we need it? The only thing more unique about it is its name.
Comparatively the battleaxe requires you to be falling in order to deal sufficient damage, a concept far more original than just being able to throw your weapon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mankind a sespit of hatred and lies! - Castlevania quote
No offense Ed, but your sentences are really hard to read. Please use proper punctuation.
Knife would probably be best as muncher21 has described it, an emergency weapon. I was thinking that since knives are generally multi-purpose tools, we could have a battle version and a tool version. Maybe the tool version could be combined with meat to slice it or something. Instead of just having slabs of pork, it'd be nice to cook up some crispy bacon~
No offense Ed, but your sentences are really hard to read. Please use proper punctuation.
Knife would probably be best as muncher21 has described it, an emergency weapon. I was thinking that since knives are generally multi-purpose tools, we could have a battle version and a tool version. Maybe the tool version could be combined with meat to slice it or something. Instead of just having slabs of pork, it'd be nice to cook up some crispy bacon~
It'd be really nice if Notch would show us that it is possible to have crafting degrade a object, so if you mix a knife and mushrooms, for every mushroom the knife would degrade 1/15th, but in turn you get chopped mushrooms.
Otherwise we are kinda stumbling through the dark, hoping our ideas are possible.
But if that is possible, you could have knives work as a tool and a weapon without needing two different types of knife. (one for cutting and one for slashing mobs)
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Quote from boxturtle »
The hole the Creeper left in the earth is nothing compared to the hole it left in my heart.
I have to admit I like all the creative criticism. I do have one question for the OP why no guns? Obviously i can see why a machine gun is a bad idea but maybe a single shot rifle or musket like gun i mean it could fill the niche of long range weapon (sword being close and bow/arrows being med) i mean if we can build a block of Tnt with GUNpowder and have mine carts then a simple rifle should fit into the game.
Now on how to build said rifle/musket
ideally it would probably be built in pieces (i think someone posted an idea like this already)
such as barrel, and stock/butt
as for the specific recipe ill let someone more creative come up with one for each piece (for now)
Now the bullets would have to be crafted with something fairly simple
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or something like that and each craft = 8 bullets
Now for the "stats"
Range= at least double the range of the arrows and/or speed depending on how the coding for ranged/thrown things work
Damage id say equal or slightly more than arrows ie 4-5 arrow per skele kill to 3-4 bullets or around there.
Now I am sorry if there was a no guns in minecraft or for this topic but i only saw the no guns on the topic name and no reason for this (at least i didn't see it i might have missed 1 or 2 posts) and if you have a decent reason for no guns such as "Notch said never" then i guess ignore this :tongue.gif: otherwise i think its a valid "weapon" idea i mean its no powerglove(earthshaker) or chainsaw.
I have to admit I like all the creative criticism. I do have one question for the OP why no guns? Obviously i can see why a machine gun is a bad idea but maybe a single shot rifle or musket like gun i mean it could fill the niche of long range weapon (sword being close and bow/arrows being med) i mean if we can build a block of Tnt with GUNpowder and have mine carts then a simple rifle should fit into the game.
Now on how to build said rifle/musket
ideally it would probably be built in pieces (i think someone posted an idea like this already)
such as barrel, and stock/butt
as for the specific recipe ill let someone more creative come up with one for each piece (for now)
Now the bullets would have to be crafted with something fairly simple
[] []
[] []
[] [] []
or something like that and each craft = 8 bullets
Now for the "stats"
Range= at least double the range of the arrows and/or speed depending on how the coding for ranged/thrown things work
Damage id say equal or slightly more than arrows ie 4-5 arrow per skele kill to 3-4 bullets or around there.
Now I am sorry if there was a no guns in minecraft or for this topic but i only saw the no guns on the topic name and no reason for this (at least i didn't see it i might have missed 1 or 2 posts) and if you have a decent reason for no guns such as "Notch said never" then i guess ignore this :tongue.gif: otherwise i think its a valid "weapon" idea i mean its no powerglove(earthshaker) or chainsaw.
PPPPPEEEEEEERRRRRIIIIIIIOOOOOODDDDDDDSSSSS.
Also, I'm pretty sure that guns will forever be out of the question.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from jukeboxjosh »
Quote from YoFayceSux »
BLOCKS ONLY COUNT IF YOU CAN PLACE THEM. Ill give you pumkins, but YOU CAN NOT PICK UP AND PLACE PORTAL BLOCKS.
Air counts as a block, and unless I'm playing the game wrong, you cannot pick up and place those.
I said no guns because there's a giant topic dedicated to guns, so this topic doesn't need to deal with them. My original idea was to focus on Melee weapons anyways, as there can be a large variety of ways melee weapons work, whereas ranged weapons are all kind of the same. Then again, the same can be said about melee weapons, but that's why we need good, solid differences that make the weapons in question feel unique.
I have to agree that the battle axe is currently a flawed concept; double the cost of a sword in exchange for fall-based damage isn't worth it. Besides, if anything, the knife/dagger should be the weapon that gains additional damage when falling, for the purpose of performing ninja-style ambushes. Heavy weapons such as axes and hammers were designed to ignore armor through brute force, so it would make more sense to give axes the ability to ignore armor as a niche, but then all you'd have is a generic (and -still- over priced) alternative sword, since monsters don't have armor ratings at the moment.
There are two flaws with the tomahawk, currently. The first is that, it is a thrown weapon that requires two iron, making it an almost restrictively expensive projectile. Spend two iron to do a few points of damage, instead of spending it to make a sword that last for 128 hits at eight damage each? No thank you. The second is that, simply put, all it really is is a sword combined with a bow. While I'll accept that as being a valid "niche," It doesn't add anything to the combat at all.
[/quote]
Now that i have steady internet I can type a real argument to this thread. I'll go down the list of weapons and explain how they work, or more often don't.
Battle axe- Ok cool. more damage, less range but more speed. The speed should be brought down to zero because for 25% more damage then a sword (assuming swords do 100) extra speed is very op.
caltrop- why not? cool trap idea.
Cestus- Really? stun? SO i hit someone, then while there stunned I move into position to attack again. Real fair right? and since when did punching someone (even with brass or wooden knuckles) hurt a person the same amount as a sword? Should do 50 damage and -5 range.
Javalin- Good idea. The crafting recipe should use flint instead of wood so when new arrow types are added there could be new javelin types similar to the arrow types.
knife- Why? when will i ever be in the situation where i have one wood instead of two? Never that's when. Bad pointless idea. No point weapon.
Shuriken- a Javelin fills this better. why use a consumable weapon when I have a non-consumable weapon? Pointless.
Spear- ok cool sounds good. should have less speed though.
Tomahawk- see Shuriken. same argument, and +ten move speed? really? How does a Tomahawk do that?
Trident- NO just no..... dumb stupid pointless weapon. Just use a sword for same damage out of water and in water!
Warhammer- To strong, should have less reach, and do 150 damage
Yo-yo- Wh- wh- why? why does this have more reach then a spear? Why is this a weapon? Why would this be suggested?
While i ,]may have seemed to like some of these ideas, I one have one argument that all of these are subject too (except the javelin that one was good).
Lets say hypothetically I suggested a food item called rye. you would find seeds by hoeing the dirt for them plant them then wait for them to grow, craft four together and get rye bread. It would heal 3 hearts. I would get internet slapped and people would say "This is just bread that heals .5 more hearts.". And they would be correct.
For multiple food items to work, they should all be completely different. If two were obtained in similar ways, the two items should each fill a necessary niche in the game. For example if corn was grown like wheat, there should be multiple crafting recipes that use corn that make wheat necessary instead of wheat.
SO now your saying, "lol bro this isn't the farmcraft topic!". Well all of these rules should apply to weapons.
Each weapon should be unique and fill a specific niche in combat. Most of these are just swords that do a little more damage or slash a bit faster. My challenge to you is make up a weapon idea that would feel and play COMPLETELY different then a sword or bow and arrow. And small tweaks in stats do not make it feel or play differently.
For those who wouldn't or couldn't read this wall of text here's my main point.
If a weapon is just a sword or bow and arrow with small stat tweaks, it has no right to be in the game. If a weapon has different balanced features that make it feel and play differently then a sword or bow and arrow it has a right to be in the game.
so that's it /rant.
Read it people.
But yes, cestus as a gloves equip is a really good idea. As I said before, make it boost your damage in total, or for non-tool/weapon items, like placable blocks.
Battleaxe: Normally weaker than the sword, it gains its power from momentum. While running at full speed, does sword damage. While falling, can do up to 4 increments of damage more (25% increments.)
Caltrops: Placed on any normal block, these 1/8 blocks (snow size) deal damage when stepped on (walked over). Originally these were supposed to deal 1 damage (1 heart), but many people think it should be damage equal to a sword strike of that material's level and then the caltrops are gone. The debate continues!
Cestus: This is sort of a "cross" weapon. Half of us want it, half of us don't. More info required to balance and/or delete.
Knife: A fast weapon! Very fast! It does half as much damage as a sword, but can be made without a crafting table. Secondary idea: Same speed as sword, but deals cumulative damage based on how many times you've hit the target with the knife. For example, if a knife were 25% of the sword's damage, the first hit would be just that. The second would be 50%, third 75%, and fourth 100%. All other hits until the mob is killed or hit with something else would deal the full amount per hit.
Javelin: A consumable thrown item that works similar to the bow. Instead of firing arrows, you throw javelins. It has been suggested that, like the battleaxe, damage is increased through momentum. Regardless, each craft is 2 javelins, stacking to 8. The debate continues! I think. Also only deals full damage when thrown. Poking with it is like poking with bacon.
Spear: Most people are saying that the spear should ONLY hit for full damage at it's maximum range. The debate is still continuing, obviously. It can also be thrown just like a javelin.
Sword: The sword. Durr.
Warhammer: Most people said that it costed too much. I lowered the cost. They said 150 was a good amount for the power, so I gave it a "unique" Charge ability in which the user holds down the attack button and a gauge fills. There are 4 mini-gauges which denote damage increments. Inspiration for this ability came from the Earth Shaker weapon suggestion. Also, Knockback and Speed is based on the charge. Maximum charge is 4 square knockback. You can swing it like mad by clicking like mad (like with a sword). The true power is within the charge.
So yeah. Sound about right? Will edit if I forgot something.
Javelin is a spear that can only be thrown due to flint, not a good pointy end.
All the others still suffer from pattern-cost failure. Players are not going to want to spend 5 iron bars to make something that does the same thing that a sword accomplishes for only two, just because it does it "slightly different."
I think the inevitable problem with making these weapon variations is that you have a disconnect between balancing the cost vs the effectiveness of the weapon and balancing the weapon against other weapons. If you balance the weapons based on their material cost, the weapons that require more material than the sword will be overpowered. If you balance them against each other, the sword will always be the best because it requires only two pieces of durability material to get the job done.
If you're going to make a new weapon, it has to fill a completely different niche than the sword and bow or it will fail this cost-vs-effectiveness balance. For this reason, all "new" melee weapons will be bad additions to the game unless they have something to offer that's completely outside the combat system, like how we use flint and steel as a location-based weapon.
troll? no no chainsaw.
Anyways the knife should be 50% damage of the sword and not faster. It should be a emergency weapon when your stuck without lots of materials. If you make it as good as the sword it is better because of less cost.
It's just silly NOT to make it faster, it's a smaller, lighter blade. The disadvantages would be very low knockback and reach, keeping it from being as useful as a sword in some circumstances, like against creepers. However, it might make an excellent pvp weapon in ambushes.
I completely agree with this an all of the knifes stats. It's the weapon that I personally would be most excited to see implemented. Unless the combat system was changed or a bunch of new monsters were added, then I would rather the warhammer.
I don't see how a tomahawk is more unique than a battleaxe.
Your idea for the tomahawk is that it can be throw and it costs more to make than a bow and arrow.... why do we need it? The only thing more unique about it is its name.
Comparatively the battleaxe requires you to be falling in order to deal sufficient damage, a concept far more original than just being able to throw your weapon.
All hail the tail? I guess... I dunno, I just like S&W.
Suicune is awesome BTW.
Knife would probably be best as muncher21 has described it, an emergency weapon. I was thinking that since knives are generally multi-purpose tools, we could have a battle version and a tool version. Maybe the tool version could be combined with meat to slice it or something. Instead of just having slabs of pork, it'd be nice to cook up some crispy bacon~
It'd be really nice if Notch would show us that it is possible to have crafting degrade a object, so if you mix a knife and mushrooms, for every mushroom the knife would degrade 1/15th, but in turn you get chopped mushrooms.
Otherwise we are kinda stumbling through the dark, hoping our ideas are possible.
But if that is possible, you could have knives work as a tool and a weapon without needing two different types of knife. (one for cutting and one for slashing mobs)
Now on how to build said rifle/musket
ideally it would probably be built in pieces (i think someone posted an idea like this already)
such as barrel, and stock/butt
as for the specific recipe ill let someone more creative come up with one for each piece (for now)
Now the bullets would have to be crafted with something fairly simple
[] [] | | [] []
[] [] or
[] [] [] | | [] []
or something like that and each craft = 8 bullets
Now for the "stats"
Range= at least double the range of the arrows and/or speed depending on how the coding for ranged/thrown things work
Damage id say equal or slightly more than arrows ie 4-5 arrow per skele kill to 3-4 bullets or around there.
Now I am sorry if there was a no guns in minecraft or for this topic but i only saw the no guns on the topic name and no reason for this (at least i didn't see it i might have missed 1 or 2 posts) and if you have a decent reason for no guns such as "Notch said never" then i guess ignore this :tongue.gif: otherwise i think its a valid "weapon" idea i mean its no powerglove(earthshaker) or chainsaw.
*edit* added second bullet recipe
PPPPPEEEEEEERRRRRIIIIIIIOOOOOODDDDDDDSSSSS.
Also, I'm pretty sure that guns will forever be out of the question.
There are two flaws with the tomahawk, currently. The first is that, it is a thrown weapon that requires two iron, making it an almost restrictively expensive projectile. Spend two iron to do a few points of damage, instead of spending it to make a sword that last for 128 hits at eight damage each? No thank you. The second is that, simply put, all it really is is a sword combined with a bow. While I'll accept that as being a valid "niche," It doesn't add anything to the combat at all.
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dont eat the or the
my is lonely will you play with him?