================================================
At present I would like to refocus our efforts on reducing the number of actions a player must take to move forward using piston engines (MPB, or "Moves Per Block"). Some guidelines:
*Pointing from one direction to another counts as an action.
*Scrolling a space in the inventory counts as an action.
*Each click counts as an action.
*Pressing a single key to move in a direction counts as an action. pressing two keys to move in a specific action will be counted as two actions.
*Actions are counted on a per-blocks moved basis, so a machine that moves two blocks every 4 actions is worth 2 actions per move.
*"Refueling", as in adding more blocks to the inventory or something similar, is counted separately, as a sort of tie breaker.
*In general, any keypresses count as actions. Opening the inventory, for example.
*Finally, placing a lever counts as an action, while holding down the mouse button and flicking it in order to move counts as an additional half an action, or .5
================================================
I am effectively looking for something akin to the following monstrosity (which isn't my design):
Except self contained... and in the air! I would kill for some sort of piston powered flying machine, and I'm here to see it happen - even if only in the form of inefficient proof of concept.
Rules:
*It must be, as mentioned, completely self contained It must not need any form of track to be built, unless the device places the track semi automatically.
*It may be semi-automatic, and thus require some form of constant player input to operate. However, said input must be extremely simple. More than 5 steps in unhelpful.
*No mods, obviously. Mods and/or bugging Notch for an update would kinda defeat the purpose. However, a practical glitch that enables perpetual flight is definitely welcome.
*If you have an idea, post it! :happy.gif: Even if it doesn't fly, all related discoveries and close calls are a beautiful ballad of progress. Never hold back!
*No snail trails, unless the machine makes up for it somehow.
Why this is a challenge: As far as I know, there are no redstone power sources which can remain on a block as it is moved. Many, many reasons.
Best design *Any design* wins a place in the Minecraft hall of fame forever!
There actually is one power source that can be moved: detector rail. Pistons can move detector rail to another suitable block. And the detector rail will stay in place if a piston moves the block its on, as long as it's replaced with another suitable block.
So you'd need some kind of system that has at least two layers of pistons, one set of pistons moving the detector rail and the other layer moving the blocks its on. As the vehicle moves the detector rail would alternate which block it's on, and a minecart to trigger it would be carried along for the ride.
Then you'd have to figure out how to actually wire that detector rail so it controls the pistons. Which would probably require using even more pistons, to trigger other minecarts with powered rail and more detector rail.
"Impossible much? How are we supposed to make something move with redstone if there is nothing to place the redstone on? Also, that monorail is pretty slow. "
*cough* Wright Brothers *cough*
A design where the "pilot" places a pressure plate or something to that effect would be acceptable, even if it reeks of inefficiency. Rule of cool and the like are key here, although a slow semi auto flying machine could have possible applications.
"does a redstone (unmined) block power a piston when its activated? "
It doesn't seem so, no.
"There actually is one power source that can be moved: detector rail. Pistons can move detector rail to another suitable block. And the detector rail will stay in place if a piston moves the block its on, as long as it's replaced with another suitable block.
So you'd need some kind of system that has at least two layers of pistons, one set of pistons moving the detector rail and the other layer moving the blocks its on. As the vehicle moves the detector rail would alternate which block it's on, and a minecart to trigger it would be carried along for the ride.
Then you'd have to figure out how to actually wire that detector rail so it controls the pistons. Which would probably require using even more pistons, to trigger other minecarts with powered rail and more detector rail. "
Holy shart, I summoned genuis inventor regular Hexahedron!
I didn't even think of detector rails!
I need to get to work! Imma build a slow-moving monstrosity which incinerates the land below with lava! :biggrin.gif:
At present, the only truly automatic design would indeed require every part of the machine to be placed in front of an engine. This is impossible, as mentioned, due the the impossibility of transmitting current through a piston. However, the door is still open for exploitation of Hexahedron's point, which is that rails CAN be pushed. Of course, this could be a bit messy and complicated, hence it would also be difficult to make useful.
Thus, I reconstruct my goals to the present mechanism:
*The device built should require only one simple movement to operate on the part of the pilot. Case in point, the device which uses levers and easily broken blocks is very difficult to pilot until one gets the hang of it.
*The device is allowed to waste some form of easily attainable "fuel", such as dirt or cobble.
A design where the "pilot" places a pressure plate or something to that effect would be acceptable, even if it reeks of inefficiency. Rule of cool and the like are key here, although a slow semi auto flying machine could have possible applications.
It doesn't seem so, no.
Holy shart, I summoned genuis inventor regular Hexahedron!
I didn't even think of detector rails!
I need to get to work! Imma build a slow-moving monstrosity which incinerates the land below with lava! :biggrin.gif:
BRILLIANT! AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!
*ahem*
This is my greatest thread.
Sethbling made a video on how to create redstone circuitry only using rail and pistons. Maybe that could provide some inspiration.
Woah, that design is awesome! It's very compact, but it works. Although it's slow. Is this the only flying machine? This would be hilarious to show the guys on the server I play on. Good job
I've really been looking for some kind of place to discuss piston monorails, looks like this topic is suitable. Anyway, placing minecarts on detector rails works for a power source. Dunno if they can power appliances (i.e. pistons) though. I'll get to work on a concept.
EDIT: Came up with a movable clock! One component possibly, depending on what method is used. Appliances directly next to detector rails are powered.
In order for the device to be self contained, everything would need to be in front of the pistons; however, this is impossible, as the twin piston style engine must receive power on the far end. Therefore, a new type of engine must be devised for a self contained machine, or else power must be applied in a manner that touches the pistons.
*Can anything other than the two piston system be created? I doubt it, considering that pistons can't push themselves backwards, but maybe I'm wrong?
*A possible simple design would involve placing a redstone torch over and over again, which would get knocked off and the engine would reset. If a such a design could be made, then the device would be an effective form of travel over oceans, as well as a useful platform for pvp.
As far as I can tell, only detector rails are a power source that can be moved by pistons.
i like ur original design that is enough for me to add some kind of monorail system to one of my maps just for the heck of it lol good job even if it doesnt fly
Anyone know a design for a two way piston monorail? That is, you flip a lever or press a button and it travels one way. Press a button at the other end of the line and it travels in the reverse direction? Bonus points if you can reverse direction mid-travel.
Oh, and I discovered something that could be very useful for the flying machine earlier in the thread with this shape:
Players fall through blocks when they're moved by a piston, unless they're standing on the seam between two blocks, which is hard to always line up perfectly. However I found that if the pistons are pushing a row of stairs then the player will not fall through those. Instead they'll sink half-way through the stair. You have to jump up or move before triggering the pistons again because you will fall through the step if already half sunk from the previous piston extension.
I am effectively looking for something akin to this:
Except self contained... and in the air! I would kill for some sort of piston powered flying machine, and I'm here to see it happen - even if only in the form of inefficient proof of concept.
Rules:
*It must be, as mentioned, completely self contained It must not need any form of track to be built, unless the device places the track semi automatically.
*It may be semi-automatic, and thus require some form of constant player input to operate.
Why this is a challenge: As far as I know, there are no redstone power sources which can remain on a block as it is moved.
Best design wins a place in the minecraft hall of fame forever!
Nice design, however slow it is. Still, we walk faster then that monorail.
Anyone know a design for a two way piston monorail? That is, you flip a lever or press a button and it travels one way. Press a button at the other end of the line and it travels in the reverse direction? Bonus points if you can reverse direction mid-travel.
Sticky pistons let go of blocks if you extend and retract them within the right amount of time (one tick?), which could in theory be used to power a pair of sticky pistons.
Oh, and I discovered something that could be very useful for the flying machine earlier in the thread with this shape:
Players fall through blocks when they're moved by a piston, unless they're standing on the seam between two blocks, which is hard to always line up perfectly. However I found that if the pistons are pushing a row of stairs then the player will not fall through those. Instead they'll sink half-way through the stair. You have to jump up or move before triggering the pistons again because you will fall through the step if already half sunk from the previous piston extension.
Very nice; I suspected that one would have to resort to a minecart or something in order to stay aloft, but the stairs present a simple solution.
Accidentally found something that would help while playing around:
Where the stick is a lever and the stone can be any block. --You may skip to the summary at the bottom if you find the below boring--
If the higher piston is sticky, the below MUST be a normal piston.
It the higher piston is normal, the below MUST be a sticky piston.
In both cases, both pistons will activate.
The higher piston can face ANY direction EXCEPT the block with the lever on it, or the below piston will not activate.
The lower piston can face ANY direction EXCEPT above, or it will not activate unless there is no piston above it.
The air block can be replaced with a piston of the same type as the higher piston. Otherwise the lower piston will not activate.
This is the only way so far that I can find to make redstone power pass through pistons. Since the power passes through, redstone dust and powered rails WILL be powered if placed on the position of the lower piston.
Example:
Combined with some more concepts, this can be used for the flying machine.
Also, you can remove the higher piston, and the lower piston will still work.
Note:
If there are more than 1 lower pistons placed diagonally, there MUST be a piston with the same rule as above to activate the lower pistons.
Example:
The left lower piston will activate because there is a higher piston above it. The right lower piston will not activate because there is no higher piston above it.
Example:
All pistons will activate because the lower pistons have a piston above them.
Summary: Rules:
If there is a higher piston placed above a lower piston, it must be of a different type, otherwise the lower piston will not be powered.
A lower piston will activate without a higher piston, unless there are more than 1 lower pistons.
Lower pistons can be replaced with redstone dust and powered rails. Rule 2 does not apply. Rule 1 also does not apply because redstone dust and powered rails are not pistons.
Higher pistons (if any) must not face the powering block.
Higher pistons facing down will activate if there is no obstruction, but will cause the lower piston to not activate.
Lower pistons facing up will not activate, unless there is no higher block. This is because the higher block is activated first, although the difference is not visible.
A piston right below the powered block will be faster than the lower block, but slower than the higher block.
Placing a piston, redstone dust or powered rail below the powered block will cause the effect of rule 2, meaning you will have to place a higher piston above the lower piston.
Any speed differences are not noticeable, they are the result of Minecraft Programming.
Thank you for reading this overly long post, I hope it helps the development of flying machines! :wink.gif:
At present I would like to refocus our efforts on reducing the number of actions a player must take to move forward using piston engines (MPB, or "Moves Per Block"). Some guidelines:
*Pointing from one direction to another counts as an action.
*Scrolling a space in the inventory counts as an action.
*Each click counts as an action.
*Pressing a single key to move in a direction counts as an action. pressing two keys to move in a specific action will be counted as two actions.
*Actions are counted on a per-blocks moved basis, so a machine that moves two blocks every 4 actions is worth 2 actions per move.
*"Refueling", as in adding more blocks to the inventory or something similar, is counted separately, as a sort of tie breaker.
*In general, any keypresses count as actions. Opening the inventory, for example.
*Finally, placing a lever counts as an action, while holding down the mouse button and flicking it in order to move counts as an additional half an action, or .5
================================================
I am effectively looking for something akin to the following monstrosity (which isn't my design):
Except self contained... and in the air! I would kill for some sort of piston powered flying machine, and I'm here to see it happen - even if only in the form of inefficient proof of concept.
Rules:
*It must be, as mentioned, completely self contained It must not need any form of track to be built, unless the device places the track semi automatically.
*It may be semi-automatic, and thus require some form of constant player input to operate. However, said input must be extremely simple. More than 5 steps in unhelpful.
*No mods, obviously. Mods and/or bugging Notch for an update would kinda defeat the purpose. However, a practical glitch that enables perpetual flight is definitely welcome.
*If you have an idea, post it! :happy.gif: Even if it doesn't fly, all related discoveries and close calls are a beautiful ballad of progress. Never hold back!
*No snail trails, unless the machine makes up for it somehow.
Why this is a challenge:
As far as I know, there are no redstone power sources which can remain on a block as it is moved.Many, many reasons.Best design*Any design* wins a place in the Minecraft hall of fame forever!Also, check out this: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/793189-minestadium-version-01-2/ and this: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/793088-flying-barge-race-time-race-and-combat-mode/
Note: I'll update the MPB for these in due time. Patience please :happy.gif:
Abdiel's capsule machine: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10209403
Note that it can have another pair of pistons in the bottom center, as using redstone torches to power the machine will power them as well (12 MPB): http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__11795463
Skyshark_'s moveable clock: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10210028
There is a fairly fast monorail proof of concept here: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10221473
Some weird piston physics discovered here: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10223970
The sky barge is born: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10231387
The updated sky barge, with headlights, a cargo hold, and a crafting table: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10247939
My sky barge, using minecarts as player carrying containers or cargo holds: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10252998
Abdiel's slightly larger sky barge: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10345022
Vertical transportation (doesn't work sideways; pressure plates aren't the only things that can work): http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__11269525
Owl24's sideways elevator thingamajig: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__11282624
drone13's rapid lever flicking system (: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__11805652
Eibenholz's battleship: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10850042
Ready? Now let's do this thing! But first, an inspirational quote:
Prove 'em wrong!
Prove that guy wrong too.
|
V
So you'd need some kind of system that has at least two layers of pistons, one set of pistons moving the detector rail and the other layer moving the blocks its on. As the vehicle moves the detector rail would alternate which block it's on, and a minecart to trigger it would be carried along for the ride.
Then you'd have to figure out how to actually wire that detector rail so it controls the pistons. Which would probably require using even more pistons, to trigger other minecarts with powered rail and more detector rail.
*cough* Wright Brothers *cough*
A design where the "pilot" places a pressure plate or something to that effect would be acceptable, even if it reeks of inefficiency. Rule of cool and the like are key here, although a slow semi auto flying machine could have possible applications.
It doesn't seem so, no.
Holy shart, I summoned genuis inventor regular Hexahedron!
I didn't even think of detector rails!
I need to get to work! Imma build a slow-moving monstrosity which incinerates the land below with lava! :biggrin.gif:
BRILLIANT! AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!
*ahem*
This is my greatest thread.
It would be hilarious crossing the sea with one of these, and shooting players in pvp
Thus, I reconstruct my goals to the present mechanism:
*The device built should require only one simple movement to operate on the part of the pilot. Case in point, the device which uses levers and easily broken blocks is very difficult to pilot until one gets the hang of it.
*The device is allowed to waste some form of easily attainable "fuel", such as dirt or cobble.
Sethbling made a video on how to create redstone circuitry only using rail and pistons. Maybe that could provide some inspiration.
EDIT: Came up with a movable clock! One component possibly, depending on what method is used. Appliances directly next to detector rails are powered.
Point taken; leaving a snail trail would be dumb.
Oh, and I discovered something that could be very useful for the flying machine earlier in the thread with this shape:
Players fall through blocks when they're moved by a piston, unless they're standing on the seam between two blocks, which is hard to always line up perfectly. However I found that if the pistons are pushing a row of stairs then the player will not fall through those. Instead they'll sink half-way through the stair. You have to jump up or move before triggering the pistons again because you will fall through the step if already half sunk from the previous piston extension.
Nice design, however slow it is. Still, we walk faster then that monorail.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent
- Salvor Hardin (Foundation - Isaac Asimov)
Sticky pistons let go of blocks if you extend and retract them within the right amount of time (one tick?), which could in theory be used to power a pair of sticky pistons.
Very nice; I suspected that one would have to resort to a minecart or something in order to stay aloft, but the stairs present a simple solution.
Crazy creation, and a seemingly impossible challenge without a mod of some sort.
Where the stick is a lever and the stone can be any block.
--You may skip to the summary at the bottom if you find the below boring--
If the higher piston is sticky, the below MUST be a normal piston.
It the higher piston is normal, the below MUST be a sticky piston.
In both cases, both pistons will activate.
The higher piston can face ANY direction EXCEPT the block with the lever on it, or the below piston will not activate.
The lower piston can face ANY direction EXCEPT above, or it will not activate unless there is no piston above it.
The air block can be replaced with a piston of the same type as the higher piston. Otherwise the lower piston will not activate.
This is the only way so far that I can find to make redstone power pass through pistons. Since the power passes through, redstone dust and powered rails WILL be powered if placed on the position of the lower piston.
Example:
Combined with some more concepts, this can be used for the flying machine.
Also, you can remove the higher piston, and the lower piston will still work.
Note:
If there are more than 1 lower pistons placed diagonally, there MUST be a piston with the same rule as above to activate the lower pistons.
Example:
The left lower piston will activate because there is a higher piston above it. The right lower piston will not activate because there is no higher piston above it.
Example:
All pistons will activate because the lower pistons have a piston above them.
Summary:
Rules:
- If there is a higher piston placed above a lower piston, it must be of a different type, otherwise the lower piston will not be powered.
- A lower piston will activate without a higher piston, unless there are more than 1 lower pistons.
- Lower pistons can be replaced with redstone dust and powered rails. Rule 2 does not apply. Rule 1 also does not apply because redstone dust and powered rails are not pistons.
- Higher pistons (if any) must not face the powering block.
- Higher pistons facing down will activate if there is no obstruction, but will cause the lower piston to not activate.
- Lower pistons facing up will not activate, unless there is no higher block. This is because the higher block is activated first, although the difference is not visible.
- A piston right below the powered block will be faster than the lower block, but slower than the higher block.
- Placing a piston, redstone dust or powered rail below the powered block will cause the effect of rule 2, meaning you will have to place a higher piston above the lower piston.
- Any speed differences are not noticeable, they are the result of Minecraft Programming.
Thank you for reading this overly long post, I hope it helps the development of flying machines! :wink.gif:
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