For starters, I want to say this is not a mindless complaint made simply out of personal preference, I don't think I have ever complained about a new feature. The only thing I didn't like since I joined(which was in 1.2.5) was the bonemeal nerf but even that I got over realizing it was for simple balance reasons. So please don't mark me as the average complainer like leftypower which use nothing but personal preference as an argument and complain about literally everything.
As of 1.7, besides food going down faster regularly(yes this is true) this food nerf is amplified even further by only being able to regenerate lost health at the cost of saturation and eventually, food.
The problem with this is that you can't regenerate if you're above 9 full shanks, so you have to keep eating to properly regenerate. This basically encourages wasting hunger points on bigger foods like meats or basically anything that fills more than 3 hunger points(1.5 shanks).
Having to waste bigger foods to regenerate health in combat was already something you had to manage, and now it is basically encouraged and there's barely any point in waiting for your hunger to drop enough because if you even take chip damage while waiting to drop those shanks you'll be below the regeneration standard once you've even healed up a bit.
Along with the faster food loss in 1.7 you burn through food too fast and you spent too much time eating, which is a big pain.
My suggested changes are thus to lower the regeneration standard from 9 full shanks to 6. Another possible change is to completely remove the feature or atleast nerf it so that it doesn't take that much food to heal up.
Thoughts?
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Tbh, I like the concept of the food/hunger system, but I dislike how it was implemented. I find that I have to be constantly eating all the time especially when fighting. I think it is ridiculous that you need to keep your hunger bar topped off to heal.
Basically if you're hunger bar isn't constantly full you're putting yourself at risk because by the time you eat to top it off and wait for your heath to regenerate you're dead or about to die. This is even if you have the best food in your inventory.
I think it would be much better if you could also regenerate heath by eating when your hunger bar is full. This wouldn't negatively affect PvP since it takes so long to eat anything anyway.
The new feature makes you have to eat better food in order to heal. Before, you could have a stack of melons to last you forever. Now different kind of food with higher saturation counts as better.
The new feature makes you have to eat better food in order to heal. Before, you could have a stack of melons to last you forever. Now different kind of food with higher saturation counts as better.
Yes. The OP understands that. But he argues that this will further remove value from worse food types. I sort of see the problem, but I don't see a solution. This change doesn't introduce a new problem. It just confirms the already existing problem that better food makes other types of food obsolete. But I don't see how one could make them more interesting food sources.
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Yes. The OP understands that. But he argues that this will further remove value from worse food types. I sort of see the problem, but I don't see a solution. This change doesn't introduce a new problem. It just confirms the already existing problem that better food makes other types of food obsolete. But I don't see how one could make them more interesting food sources.
Worse food types are more abundant though. That's the difference between those and the better food. A meat farm is harder to manage a wheat farm, and a wheat farm is harder to manage that a melon farm.
I always thought it would be a lot less wasteful if you regenerated so long as you were above 8 shanks; keeping it 9 and above means that you're going to "waste" at least one piece of food every time you need to regenerate more than 4 hearts.
This is annoying in survival, I often will be fighting something like cave spiders, then get low health and carve myself a safehouse in the rock to regenerate. Just standing still I will have to eat one extra piece of food because of how quickly regeneration burns.
If regen burned the same amount but worked 8 shanks, it would make combat and recovery a lot more fluid
1.6 Health regeneration from food now increases the exhaustion level significantly, draining three points of food/saturation for every health point regenerated.
NB: "three points" refers to the food exhaustion level, which resets to 0 and takes away one hunger/saturation point when it reaches 4.
Also, there are no mentions of changes in 1.7 and haven't noticed any difference myself. I don't find it to be a problem either; if you are good in combat and wear good armor you will minimize the amount of health you lose.
Different foods for different purposes. If you keep getting hit in melee combat or take a swim in lava, you need high saturation food like cooked meat. If you're climbing hills, melons are fine.
If you're getting hit *so much* that you have to keep eating constantly you should probably rethink your fighting strategy.
That said, it's annoying that a filling food provides generally four times what you need to keep regenerating. Theoretically, 1 meal should keep you going until you're hungry enough for the next, so you should probably keep regenerating down to 6 or even 5.
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Different foods for different purposes. If you keep getting hit in melee combat or take a swim in lava, you need high saturation food like cooked meat. If you're climbing hills, melons are fine.
If you're getting hit *so much* that you have to keep eating constantly you should probably rethink your fighting strategy.
That said, it's annoying that a filling food provides generally four times what you need to keep regenerating. Theoretically, 1 meal should keep you going until you're hungry enough for the next, so you should probably keep regenerating down to 6 or even 5.
I rarely need to eat though until I am down far enough not to waste any food (I mainly eat baked potatoes, which are a good compromise between ease of farming and hunger/saturation), I often eat when I am down to 1 or 4 shanks (1 shank will waste a bit as 3 potatoes restores 21.6 saturation and it is capped at 20, but less than say, 2 steaks eaten at 2 shanks, 25.6 saturation, so there is no difference in how long I can go until getting hungry again). While not the best food, a stack of baked potatoes lasts longer than a stack of logs (2,048 torches) when caving, not including bread/wheat I find in chests (the only time I eat/make bread after the first few days, as wheat is terribly inefficient, 3 wheat for one bread and half the growth rate of carrots/potatoes, even if it does have decent hunger/saturation).
It really does come out to how you fight; sure, many people say the game is too easy when you can just run into a group of mobs and spam-click*, but that makes you receive a lot of damage. As I mentioned previously, armor also makes a difference; full diamond will reduce damage by 80% - meaning 80% less hunger depleted through healing (do note that damage that gives you less than half a heart of damage, which isn't visible on the health bar, will still remove the same amount of hunger when regenerated, so lots of minor damage sources will quickly deplete your hunger). Typically, only the rare direct creeper hit and poison from cave spiders and witches make me lose enough health to eat before I lose enough hunger to make full use of food ("enough health" is more than about 3 hearts).
*Definitely bad advice when you find a ravine 160 blocks below the surface with no other unlit caves nearby (so the mob cap is all in that ravine, even at night); I found such a ravine yesterday and the number of mobs in it was staggering, but not overwhelming for me.
I like it because I actually burn through food instead of having it pile up everywhere. I typically have two foods, the heavy and the snacky.
Near the beginning of the game I do apples/bread etc. etc. until I get to baked potato/steak. Even if some of the snacky is 'wasted', they don't waste that much and I have them in large quantity because they are easy to farm.
If you're getting hit *so much* that you have to keep eating constantly you should probably rethink your fighting strategy.
Sometimes you inadvertently get put into a bad, or unexpected situation, or you are fighting off many mobs at once. Then add to that running while fighting.
This is annoying in survival, I often will be fighting something like cave spiders, then get low health and carve myself a safehouse in the rock to regenerate. Just standing still I will have to eat one extra piece of food because of how quickly regeneration burns.
If regen burned the same amount but worked 8 shanks, it would make combat and recovery a lot more fluid
I just find having to keep the hunger bar topped off annoying. For combat it's really an all or nothing system (full, or not full). The rest of the hunger bar is completely pointless. The only time this isn't the case is when you are running.
So, a long hunger bar makes sense for stamina, but not for combat. You can still run if you're not full, but for combat all that matters is the 9th shank. The rest of the bar is irrelevant.
he argues that this will further remove value from worse food types. I sort of see the problem, but I don't see a solution. This change doesn't introduce a new problem. It just confirms the already existing problem that better food makes other types of food obsolete. But I don't see how one could make them more interesting food sources.
Really I think a lot of the problem is that they have combined two systems that shouldn't have been combined, stamina (running) and combat (health regen).
You could say that melons and cookies are for running and steaks, baked potatoes, etc. are meant for combat, but carrying around two food sources is kind of silly IMO. It isn't a horrible system, but I have just felt that there was always something off about it that I just cant put my finger on...
This is not about weaker foods becoming obsolete, they've been that for a long time.
It's that you have to spend so much freaking time farming to actually get a decent amount of food, and you actually have to waste bigger foods because before you could just wait till you've lost 4 shanks, eat it and regenerate fully and now you need to eat another one halfway because you dropped down 1 and a half shank.
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Honestly, I never minded the hunger bar at all at first, now it's just a irritation getting in the way of gameplay. Minecraft, even on hardmode is already an insanely easy game because of poor and easily manipulated enemy mechanics. Adding hunger just exacerbates the issue. Minecraft as it is today is essentially artificial difficulty: the game.
At this point, I'd agree with just removing hunger altogether and leave all the different types of food available for simple healing options/temporary boosts/recipes.
I don't mind the Hunger Bar at all, but I will admit I think it should be changed from having to be at 9 Hunger Bars to heal, to about ~7 Hunger Bars to heal. Maybe food that heals less hunger can heal half a heart, a heart maybe? That way, bigger food will be totally for getting your Hunger Bar up to max, and the lesser food could be for quicker healing in a pinch. Again, I'm not bothered by the system at all.
WHAT AM BOTHERED BY IS THAT ZOMIBES WENT FROM THE WORST ENEMY TO THE BEST D: (but that's another story for another time).
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I think its to satisfy the stupid people that say Minecraft is too easy and then Mojang accepts these stupid ideas, because we all somehow need the game to be even harder than it should have ever been. Minecraft is a sandbox, not an RPG why can't Mojang get that through their heads? We need to be able to get rid of all the 'hardcore' changes. I can't play Minecraft outside of peaceful because of the retardedness that is Minecraft 1.5.X+. The game has gotten out of hand and someone should do something about that. If you think I am wrong, please explain why. Otherwise I think you may have misinterpreted me as a complainer. But the game has been damaged to say to the least.
I'm going to have to agree with you on this one i personally find it quite annoying because i like to carry around bigger food bar refillers like meats and baked potatoes and now the go to saturation and have to eat more and more food is hard enough to get to me on a new world.
I think its to satisfy the stupid people that say Minecraft is too easy and then Mojang accepts these stupid ideas, because we all somehow need the game to be even harder than it should have ever been. Minecraft is a sandbox, not an RPG why can't Mojang get that through their heads? We need to be able to get rid of all the 'hardcore' changes. I can't play Minecraft outside of peaceful because of the retardedness that is Minecraft 1.5.X+. The game has gotten out of hand and someone should do something about that. If you think I am wrong, please explain why. Otherwise I think you may have misinterpreted me as a complainer. But the game has been damaged to say to the least.
i actually disagree with you not about stupid people influencing mojang but that the game is too hard ive been around since about 1.3 and i dont think the game is to hard but thats my preference. I guess i like the RPG aspect of it as well as the sandbox i think their just trying to satisfy both crowds.
I'm going to have to agree with you on this one i personally find it quite annoying because i like to carry around bigger food bar refillers like meats and baked potatoes and now the go to saturation and have to eat more and more food is hard enough to get to me on a new world.
i actually disagree with you not about stupid people influencing mojang but that the game is too hard ive been around since about 1.3 and i dont think the game is to hard but thats my preference. I guess i like the RPG aspect of it as well as the sandbox i think their just trying to satisfy both crowds.
It is a building game not something like Runescape, which is supposed to be hard. Notch probably dislikes all the new changes with difficulty.
It is a building game not something like Runescape, which is supposed to be hard. Notch probably dislikes all the new changes with difficulty.
LOL, notch is the one who made skeletons shoot really fast in the older versions, notch always likes a ramp up in difficulty because he is sometimes into roguelike games which are very hardcore.
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For starters, I want to say this is not a mindless complaint made simply out of personal preference, I don't think I have ever complained about a new feature. The only thing I didn't like since I joined(which was in 1.2.5) was the bonemeal nerf but even that I got over realizing it was for simple balance reasons. So please don't mark me as the average complainer like leftypower which use nothing but personal preference as an argument and complain about literally everything.
As of 1.7, besides food going down faster regularly(yes this is true) this food nerf is amplified even further by only being able to regenerate lost health at the cost of saturation and eventually, food.
The problem with this is that you can't regenerate if you're above 9 full shanks, so you have to keep eating to properly regenerate. This basically encourages wasting hunger points on bigger foods like meats or basically anything that fills more than 3 hunger points(1.5 shanks).
Having to waste bigger foods to regenerate health in combat was already something you had to manage, and now it is basically encouraged and there's barely any point in waiting for your hunger to drop enough because if you even take chip damage while waiting to drop those shanks you'll be below the regeneration standard once you've even healed up a bit.
Along with the faster food loss in 1.7 you burn through food too fast and you spent too much time eating, which is a big pain.
My suggested changes are thus to lower the regeneration standard from 9 full shanks to 6. Another possible change is to completely remove the feature or atleast nerf it so that it doesn't take that much food to heal up.
Thoughts?
Basically if you're hunger bar isn't constantly full you're putting yourself at risk because by the time you eat to top it off and wait for your heath to regenerate you're dead or about to die. This is even if you have the best food in your inventory.
I think it would be much better if you could also regenerate heath by eating when your hunger bar is full. This wouldn't negatively affect PvP since it takes so long to eat anything anyway.
Yes. The OP understands that. But he argues that this will further remove value from worse food types. I sort of see the problem, but I don't see a solution. This change doesn't introduce a new problem. It just confirms the already existing problem that better food makes other types of food obsolete. But I don't see how one could make them more interesting food sources.
This is annoying in survival, I often will be fighting something like cave spiders, then get low health and carve myself a safehouse in the rock to regenerate. Just standing still I will have to eat one extra piece of food because of how quickly regeneration burns.
If regen burned the same amount but worked 8 shanks, it would make combat and recovery a lot more fluid
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NB: "three points" refers to the food exhaustion level, which resets to 0 and takes away one hunger/saturation point when it reaches 4.
Also, there are no mentions of changes in 1.7 and haven't noticed any difference myself. I don't find it to be a problem either; if you are good in combat and wear good armor you will minimize the amount of health you lose.
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TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
If you're getting hit *so much* that you have to keep eating constantly you should probably rethink your fighting strategy.
That said, it's annoying that a filling food provides generally four times what you need to keep regenerating. Theoretically, 1 meal should keep you going until you're hungry enough for the next, so you should probably keep regenerating down to 6 or even 5.
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RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I rarely need to eat though until I am down far enough not to waste any food (I mainly eat baked potatoes, which are a good compromise between ease of farming and hunger/saturation), I often eat when I am down to 1 or 4 shanks (1 shank will waste a bit as 3 potatoes restores 21.6 saturation and it is capped at 20, but less than say, 2 steaks eaten at 2 shanks, 25.6 saturation, so there is no difference in how long I can go until getting hungry again). While not the best food, a stack of baked potatoes lasts longer than a stack of logs (2,048 torches) when caving, not including bread/wheat I find in chests (the only time I eat/make bread after the first few days, as wheat is terribly inefficient, 3 wheat for one bread and half the growth rate of carrots/potatoes, even if it does have decent hunger/saturation).
It really does come out to how you fight; sure, many people say the game is too easy when you can just run into a group of mobs and spam-click*, but that makes you receive a lot of damage. As I mentioned previously, armor also makes a difference; full diamond will reduce damage by 80% - meaning 80% less hunger depleted through healing (do note that damage that gives you less than half a heart of damage, which isn't visible on the health bar, will still remove the same amount of hunger when regenerated, so lots of minor damage sources will quickly deplete your hunger). Typically, only the rare direct creeper hit and poison from cave spiders and witches make me lose enough health to eat before I lose enough hunger to make full use of food ("enough health" is more than about 3 hearts).
*Definitely bad advice when you find a ravine 160 blocks below the surface with no other unlit caves nearby (so the mob cap is all in that ravine, even at night); I found such a ravine yesterday and the number of mobs in it was staggering, but not overwhelming for me.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Near the beginning of the game I do apples/bread etc. etc. until I get to baked potato/steak. Even if some of the snacky is 'wasted', they don't waste that much and I have them in large quantity because they are easy to farm.
Thanks for that hot tip Captain Obvious.
Sometimes you inadvertently get put into a bad, or unexpected situation, or you are fighting off many mobs at once. Then add to that running while fighting.
I just find having to keep the hunger bar topped off annoying. For combat it's really an all or nothing system (full, or not full). The rest of the hunger bar is completely pointless. The only time this isn't the case is when you are running.
So, a long hunger bar makes sense for stamina, but not for combat. You can still run if you're not full, but for combat all that matters is the 9th shank. The rest of the bar is irrelevant.
Really I think a lot of the problem is that they have combined two systems that shouldn't have been combined, stamina (running) and combat (health regen).
You could say that melons and cookies are for running and steaks, baked potatoes, etc. are meant for combat, but carrying around two food sources is kind of silly IMO. It isn't a horrible system, but I have just felt that there was always something off about it that I just cant put my finger on...
It's that you have to spend so much freaking time farming to actually get a decent amount of food, and you actually have to waste bigger foods because before you could just wait till you've lost 4 shanks, eat it and regenerate fully and now you need to eat another one halfway because you dropped down 1 and a half shank.
At this point, I'd agree with just removing hunger altogether and leave all the different types of food available for simple healing options/temporary boosts/recipes.
WHAT AM BOTHERED BY IS THAT ZOMIBES WENT FROM THE WORST ENEMY TO THE BEST D: (but that's another story for another time).
- BlackMageMario
It is a building game not something like Runescape, which is supposed to be hard. Notch probably dislikes all the new changes with difficulty.
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Message me yours if you want to trade in Animal Crossing: New Leaf or just need some friends to play with. I can also do Pokemon trades in Pokemon X(or Y), but I don't have any good stuff, and the only good stuff I have is not for trade so...send me requests anyway.
Quote of the Day:"It's Occam's Shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas."