The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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9/22/2010
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Ok, in default world generation how big are biomes suppose to get? especially the new biomes.
in my test world I've managed to find a mesa biome about 1400 blocks long and averaging 800-1000 wide.I'm not complaining mind you, I love having Insanely massive amounts of hardened clay.
I'm actually wondering if this normal or a quirk in generation that might change in the full release and if others have found massive biomes in the new, default generation.
I've been playing around a LOT with the map viewer Amidst this past week in order to find THE map I want to play in with all the new changes. I play only in large biomes, because I like the reality of it and being forced to travel.
However, I've also been checking out many of the maps in default as well so I can get rough estimates of the surrounding area of spawn.
I've learned quite a bit. The relevant aspect of this is that the new mapping seems to create certain zones larger than the standard biomes. While you can find a huge forest, desert or taiga, the jungle, winter, mega taiga and mesa biomes seem to be considerably larger than the others. That's not set in stone and you can find smaller biomes of each, but generally those 4 biomes are going to be much larger than others. I have seen maps with insanely large mesa areas spanning 6000 blocks in default and the wintery ones just always seem to be that large. While sunflower plains is often a tiny biome in a plains area, I've seen those stretch out over 1000 as well.
I honestly feel that the ocean is too small now, with the continents being massively large if not all outright connected at some point. But, as you'll never need the majority of the map, that's hardly an issue really.
I advise checking out Amidst to look at a few hundred maps (it's addictive). Mostly because, with the new temperature aspect of the biome generation, it's tougher to find maps where everything is within a decent range of spawn. For example, you might be in that mesa, but jungle could be WAY far away from your spawn. And some of the maps I've seen spawn you in a place far away from all the large biomes I mention above. (In default everything SHOULD be attainable within 10,000 blocks though)
but on the other hand it could/would reduce the fun of exploring.
I think overland exploration in this game is grossly overrated. Not to mention the fact that stuff in your home area will stop updating if you travel too far away from it (e.g. farmland will stop growing, etc). And going back and forth for thousands of blocks every time you need something from that biome, could be tiresome over time.
In 1.7 biomes will be much bigger compared to the one we had before, they also made it more realistic, for example Snow Biomes won't generate right next to Desert Biomes
I've been playing around a LOT with the map viewer Amidst this past week in order to find THE map I want to play in with all the new changes. I play only in large biomes, because I like the reality of it and being forced to travel.
However, I've also been checking out many of the maps in default as well so I can get rough estimates of the surrounding area of spawn.
I've learned quite a bit. The relevant aspect of this is that the new mapping seems to create certain zones larger than the standard biomes. While you can find a huge forest, desert or taiga, the jungle, winter, mega taiga and mesa biomes seem to be considerably larger than the others. That's not set in stone and you can find smaller biomes of each, but generally those 4 biomes are going to be much larger than others. I have seen maps with insanely large mesa areas spanning 6000 blocks in default and the wintery ones just always seem to be that large. While sunflower plains is often a tiny biome in a plains area, I've seen those stretch out over 1000 as well.
I honestly feel that the ocean is too small now, with the continents being massively large if not all outright connected at some point. But, as you'll never need the majority of the map, that's hardly an issue really.
I advise checking out Amidst to look at a few hundred maps (it's addictive). Mostly because, with the new temperature aspect of the biome generation, it's tougher to find maps where everything is within a decent range of spawn. For example, you might be in that mesa, but jungle could be WAY far away from your spawn. And some of the maps I've seen spawn you in a place far away from all the large biomes I mention above. (In default everything SHOULD be attainable within 10,000 blocks though)
That is addicting. ><
And yes it is quite difficult to find many of what I want near spawn or at least within roughly a 1k-2k radius. Did however find a Mega taiga/Jungle/Mesa one all streaming together that is not too far of a walk from spawn. about within the range above. The jungle being the closest, but once you find the jungle the other two are connected to that on one of the borders.:D (10101101 if you are wondering)
OP:
Biomes seem to vary quite a bit. I have seen the special biomes small as 100 blocks to over 3k with my search. I use to think savannah/plains was taking over, but that is false, as it just varies greatly from seed to seed. Amidst really shows this quite well. I have no problem with the oceans themselves, minus the ocean floor, it is the many islands that are in it that is bothering. Way too many, which makes it more of a Florida keys type style or Philippines island chain. Really it is just luck of the draw I guess...
In 1.7 biomes will be much bigger compared to the one we had before, they also made it more realistic, for example Snow Biomes won't generate right next to Desert Biomes
Not exactly, but for the most part this is the case, I have seen a mesa that is usually bordered by that desert sand bordering a cold taiga and snow plains (or is it ice plains, don't remember the name). That still happens to some degree, but it is quite rare, and usually will be separated by a river (dry one included) or some other smaller biome...
I started a multiplayer world last night with my friends and started out in a jungle biome. I've gone about 3,000 blocks in one direction with no end of jungle in sight. I've gone about another 1,000 blocks in another direction with no end in sight. From looking out in the last two directions, I see nothing but jungle. I don't know if I'm just at a spot in the world where two jungle biomes or 8 have all joined up side by side or what, but after my last 5 worlds and not being able to find a jungle biome, it was initially nice to see a jungle. Now I just hate it.
I started a multiplayer world last night with my friends and started out in a jungle biome. I've gone about 3,000 blocks in one direction with no end of jungle in sight. I've gone about another 1,000 blocks in another direction with no end in sight. From looking out in the last two directions, I see nothing but jungle. I don't know if I'm just at a spot in the world where two jungle biomes or 8 have all joined up side by side or what, but after my last 5 worlds and not being able to find a jungle biome, it was initially nice to see a jungle. Now I just hate it.
Maybe the server was on large/amplified biomes? Or it could just a bunch of jungle biomes generated together lol
Maybe the server was on large/amplified biomes? Or it could just a bunch of jungle biomes generated together lol
I'm thinking it's just a bunch clumped together. LOL. I checked my .serverproperties file and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Every now and then these freak things happen and I can live with that.
I started a multiplayer world last night with my friends and started out in a jungle biome. I've gone about 3,000 blocks in one direction with no end of jungle in sight. I've gone about another 1,000 blocks in another direction with no end in sight. From looking out in the last two directions, I see nothing but jungle. I don't know if I'm just at a spot in the world where two jungle biomes or 8 have all joined up side by side or what, but after my last 5 worlds and not being able to find a jungle biome, it was initially nice to see a jungle. Now I just hate it.
I also wonder if you picked large biomes by accident. I've looked at a lot of maps on AMIDST and I've never seen any biome even close to that big except ice plains (where individual biomes are oversized, just like before) and mesa, which i think is treated as its own climate and super-clumped. If it's real, it's pretty interesting. What's the seed?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I also wonder if you picked large biomes by accident. I've looked at a lot of maps on AMIDST and I've never seen any biome even close to that big except ice plains (where individual biomes are oversized, just like before) and mesa, which i think is treated as its own climate and super-clumped. If it's real, it's pretty interesting. What's the seed?
I'll get the seed tonight when I get home. It will be interesting if I did somehow have large biomes defined in the properties, because I always let it create a new world on the server with default properties. With the large number of different servers I have setup though, it wouldn't be out of the question for me to have done something stupid at one point and copied it over. I always copy my serverproperties file over to another folder so I don't have to setup anything over again.
I very much like the new generation. Gives me a feeling that when I'm in a desert, I'm really in a desert. Keeps the immersion I guess.
Down side is if you run into a biome you don't like. Your goanna see a lot of it.
I'm using the amplified terrain, so I realized that it's most likely large biomes. So this has nothing to do with the OP.
ON topic.
I would wager to speculate that because they made biomes spawn in groups (or more likely to) that you hit the jackpot and got several Jungles clumped together. It is possible it would seem. Kinda kool if you ask me. Remember the seed.
Also keep in mind were dealing with snapshot (beta) code and perhaps some of the new generator needs some tweeks. I've been reading about some super tall hills in the middle of planes that have people asking what happened.
I'm going to assume that the terrain generator is incomplete. I created a new world under the 13w39b snapshot and bounced around looking for the mesa biome. Either it's not in that snapshot, or I have bad luck. I explored (flying and teleporting) from the origin and it was an EVENT when I finally found desert. Mostly it was the different forest types and extreme hills. I mostly covered everything within 2000m of the origin , and the ones that seemed "unusual" were savanna, Mega Taiga, and (rarest) desert. Jungle was nowhere to be found. To be fair, i did manage to find some pretty big savannas and the Mega taiga went on for what seems like a kilometer once I found it.
I'm the kind of guy who wants to be able to find everything within 1000m of the origin. As the number of biomes increases, packing them all into that area could become tough.
The one other comment I have is that some biomes appear to have special trees. Roofed Forest has spruce logs and oak leaves. Savanna has jungle wood and oak leaves. It seems you can't plant a sapling and create one of those trees (I experimented with bone meal). I hope that eventually gets fixed. Maybe they'll add the right kind of saplings that drop from the leaves later on.
(Edit: i finally found jungle out at x=2500, z=2500, and the "mesa" biome at x=3000 z=3000. Am i the only one who thinks "Mesa Plateau" is redundant?)
(Edit: i finally found jungle out at x=2500, z=2500, and the "mesa" biome at x=3000 z=3000. Am i the only one who thinks "Mesa Plateau" is redundant?)
Those are unremarkable discovery distances with the new system. It's basically a design goal of the changes that you *can't* find every climate, never mind every biome, within 1000 of spawn.
Lots of people will be upset if the acacia trees can't be grown. Not as many want the roofed forest trees but it would still be nice. Given that after over a year we're still waiting to grow swamp cypresses, I'm nervous.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
in my test world I've managed to find a mesa biome about 1400 blocks long and averaging 800-1000 wide.I'm not complaining mind you, I love having Insanely massive amounts of hardened clay.
I'm actually wondering if this normal or a quirk in generation that might change in the full release and if others have found massive biomes in the new, default generation.
However, I've also been checking out many of the maps in default as well so I can get rough estimates of the surrounding area of spawn.
I've learned quite a bit. The relevant aspect of this is that the new mapping seems to create certain zones larger than the standard biomes. While you can find a huge forest, desert or taiga, the jungle, winter, mega taiga and mesa biomes seem to be considerably larger than the others. That's not set in stone and you can find smaller biomes of each, but generally those 4 biomes are going to be much larger than others. I have seen maps with insanely large mesa areas spanning 6000 blocks in default and the wintery ones just always seem to be that large. While sunflower plains is often a tiny biome in a plains area, I've seen those stretch out over 1000 as well.
I honestly feel that the ocean is too small now, with the continents being massively large if not all outright connected at some point. But, as you'll never need the majority of the map, that's hardly an issue really.
I advise checking out Amidst to look at a few hundred maps (it's addictive). Mostly because, with the new temperature aspect of the biome generation, it's tougher to find maps where everything is within a decent range of spawn. For example, you might be in that mesa, but jungle could be WAY far away from your spawn. And some of the maps I've seen spawn you in a place far away from all the large biomes I mention above. (In default everything SHOULD be attainable within 10,000 blocks though)
I think overland exploration in this game is grossly overrated. Not to mention the fact that stuff in your home area will stop updating if you travel too far away from it (e.g. farmland will stop growing, etc). And going back and forth for thousands of blocks every time you need something from that biome, could be tiresome over time.
May the force be without you.
That is addicting. ><
And yes it is quite difficult to find many of what I want near spawn or at least within roughly a 1k-2k radius. Did however find a Mega taiga/Jungle/Mesa one all streaming together that is not too far of a walk from spawn. about within the range above. The jungle being the closest, but once you find the jungle the other two are connected to that on one of the borders.:D (10101101 if you are wondering)
OP:
Biomes seem to vary quite a bit. I have seen the special biomes small as 100 blocks to over 3k with my search. I use to think savannah/plains was taking over, but that is false, as it just varies greatly from seed to seed. Amidst really shows this quite well. I have no problem with the oceans themselves, minus the ocean floor, it is the many islands that are in it that is bothering. Way too many, which makes it more of a Florida keys type style or Philippines island chain. Really it is just luck of the draw I guess...
Not exactly, but for the most part this is the case, I have seen a mesa that is usually bordered by that desert sand bordering a cold taiga and snow plains (or is it ice plains, don't remember the name). That still happens to some degree, but it is quite rare, and usually will be separated by a river (dry one included) or some other smaller biome...
Maybe the server was on large/amplified biomes? Or it could just a bunch of jungle biomes generated together lol
I'm thinking it's just a bunch clumped together. LOL. I checked my .serverproperties file and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Every now and then these freak things happen and I can live with that.
I also wonder if you picked large biomes by accident. I've looked at a lot of maps on AMIDST and I've never seen any biome even close to that big except ice plains (where individual biomes are oversized, just like before) and mesa, which i think is treated as its own climate and super-clumped. If it's real, it's pretty interesting. What's the seed?
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I'll get the seed tonight when I get home. It will be interesting if I did somehow have large biomes defined in the properties, because I always let it create a new world on the server with default properties. With the large number of different servers I have setup though, it wouldn't be out of the question for me to have done something stupid at one point and copied it over. I always copy my serverproperties file over to another folder so I don't have to setup anything over again.
Down side is if you run into a biome you don't like. Your goanna see a lot of it.
I'm using the amplified terrain, so I realized that it's most likely large biomes. So this has nothing to do with the OP.
ON topic.
I would wager to speculate that because they made biomes spawn in groups (or more likely to) that you hit the jackpot and got several Jungles clumped together. It is possible it would seem. Kinda kool if you ask me. Remember the seed.
Also keep in mind were dealing with snapshot (beta) code and perhaps some of the new generator needs some tweeks. I've been reading about some super tall hills in the middle of planes that have people asking what happened.
I'm the kind of guy who wants to be able to find everything within 1000m of the origin. As the number of biomes increases, packing them all into that area could become tough.
The one other comment I have is that some biomes appear to have special trees. Roofed Forest has spruce logs and oak leaves. Savanna has jungle wood and oak leaves. It seems you can't plant a sapling and create one of those trees (I experimented with bone meal). I hope that eventually gets fixed. Maybe they'll add the right kind of saplings that drop from the leaves later on.
(Edit: i finally found jungle out at x=2500, z=2500, and the "mesa" biome at x=3000 z=3000. Am i the only one who thinks "Mesa Plateau" is redundant?)
Those are unremarkable discovery distances with the new system. It's basically a design goal of the changes that you *can't* find every climate, never mind every biome, within 1000 of spawn.
Lots of people will be upset if the acacia trees can't be grown. Not as many want the roofed forest trees but it would still be nice. Given that after over a year we're still waiting to grow swamp cypresses, I'm nervous.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.