It does make enchanting more balanced although it make it much harder and more tedious to build a library or use them as decor for your base, that's my problem with it.
It seems that many people are mostly concerned about the general scarcity of cows on most servers, which is indeed a problem. Perhaps the solution lies in fixing the passive mob spawning?
Once upon a time, passive mobs spawned and despawned randomly, like monsters still do. This was changed in order to make survival more of a challenge, but perhaps a minor tweak should be made. I would suggest the server randomly spawning passive mobs every couple of days if it detects that there are none in an area. The maximum population density would be low, say 1 cow per 50 chunks or so (numbers would need adjusting).
While effectively eliminating the issue of livestock extinction on servers, this would also add realism to the system by roughly simulating the animals' migratory travel and natural reproduction rates.
This only makes sense because some mobs, sheep and chickens, actually have natural predators now. If you are unfortunate enough to have the only real sheep herd in your area spawn next to a pack of wolves, you can forget about breeding sheep for a while. Chickens are in less danger, but their initial population will drop on even the most cared for of vegan SSP world as ocelots pick them off. It is my understanding that wolves and ocelots spawn at random, making them effectively infinite while their prey is not.
I don't think I've seen anyone suggest this solution, so I just thought I put in my two bits.
Tarra!
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That is a good idea Cadika but I'm afraid with the current work being done to merge SMP and SSP they probably wouldn't do that unless they added it on single player as well. Which I would not mind but they would probably would not do that because they have enough to work on.
KyoShinda, I don't feel that I should have to go on a quest to find bookshelves I should be able to make them with little trouble.
I wish that Jeb and Mojang wouldn't change things that have been in the game for a long time. I am always excited when a new snapshot comes out so I can see what will be in it. I don't like how after so long, they are changing the crafting recipe. Why fix something that isn't broken?
I wish that Jeb and Mojang wouldn't change things that have been in the game for a long time. I am always excited when a new snapshot comes out so I can see what will be in it. I don't like how after so long, they are changing the crafting recipe. Why fix something that isn't broken?
He probably should have considered a putting out a poll so he could get the community opinion before just changing it though. Maybe he could change the recipe so that when making a bookshelf you use 2 books and 1 leather sandwiched between wood, because I'm sure 1 whole cowhide can provide enough material to cover all the books.
I suppose they could always allow you to break down leather hides into a handful of "leather strips," and use those for the book bindings instead. they could control this in such a way that you could easily get 3 books from a single hide of leather...
The leather acts as a binding and cover. Without these, you just have a stack of paper, not a book. I suppose if you had a way to craft brass brads or paperclips, you could make a manuscript...
The leather acts as a binding and cover. Without these, you just have a stack of paper, not a book. I suppose if you had a way to craft brass brads or paperclips, you could make a manuscript...
I realize what the leather is for and I know it makes sense, I just don't think that adding it is really necessary, I would be fine if they made it so you get 3 or 4 books from the recipe. Which also make sense because considering the amount of leather you could get from a cow, you could easily make many books. Also being able to break it down leather like the guy 2 posts above said is a good idea.
I just want to throw onto the table of this discussion that a lot of peoples fears about rarity of cows and thus leather in SMP, are based on an older buggier SMP that had animals phasing into blocks and smothering to death when chunks loaded. Peoples farms were being decimated by this. Plus there may be some general spawning issues in the 1.2.5 build. Lets try to restrain our fears and see how it plays out in the new build once we get some 1.3 servers going and then address the real issues that are making it difficult to get leather and not focus on the fact that leather is now required. Because the reality is that as long as you can acquire and keep two cows and wheat you should have an unlimited supply of cows and thus leather.
I realize there is another group of players who have a vegetarian/PETA oriented play style who dislike this change because they are being forced to slaughter animals, but that's a minority and shouldn't be catered to in this case. The leather change makes sense and reflects how books have commonly been bound for a long time.
I'm still inclined to wish we could convert zombie flesh to leather somehow. I know it doesn't make a lot of real-world sense (comparable to making both sugar and paper from reeds?), but it'd make leather more readily available and add an extra use for zombie flesh. And as a minority vegetarian/PETA player, I'd appreciate being catered to.
I'm still inclined to wish we could convert zombie flesh to leather somehow. I know it doesn't make a lot of real-world sense (comparable to making both sugar and paper from reeds?), but it'd make leather more readily available and add an extra use for zombie flesh. And as a minority vegetarian/PETA player, I'd appreciate being catered to.
I feel for you guys and I didn't mean to come across as apathetic. However the game at least initially needs to be designed to meet a mainstream dynamic. I'm not against a non-animal derived alternative being added, but I think it should be more difficult than just using leather, otherwise everyone would use it.
Personally, I'm fine with mods being required to indulge in a lifestyle that doesn't harm any virtual animals whatsoever. ShiftSix and I are in the minority, and it's not hard to imagine the game becoming too easy for those without our preferences. At the same time, I think the leather issue could be solved in a way that alleviates the scarcity problem and appeases us wacky animal lovers.
But oh well, a mod will probably be required anyway, given the other goods that require killing (ink, feathers, and so forth).
I'm still inclined to wish we could convert zombie flesh to leather somehow. I know it doesn't make a lot of real-world sense (comparable to making both sugar and paper from reeds?), but it'd make leather more readily available and add an extra use for zombie flesh. And as a minority vegetarian/PETA player, I'd appreciate being catered to.
I'd support this. I mean, as a omnivore, I have zero qualms about cow-murder for leather and beef. However, zombie flesh into leather would be great. Like 3 zombie flesh to one leather. Would make zombie flesh not be so.. useless.
This post has some interresting reading. Just for the fun allowe me to throwe this in your mids....
Say zombie meat is used instead of leather... we can have another problem in the sense that a zombie is supposed to be someone/person that has died , but has got up from the grave. Right, now this is the problem... it would mean that we will be using human flesh to bind our books with....... !!???
maybe they could let you make books with normal leather, and you could make "evil" books with rotting flesh. you could make evil book cases, and you could get an entirely new subset of "evil" enchantments.
It seems that many people are mostly concerned about the general scarcity of cows on most servers, which is indeed a problem. Perhaps the solution lies in fixing the passive mob spawning?
Once upon a time, passive mobs spawned and despawned randomly, like monsters still do. This was changed in order to make survival more of a challenge, but perhaps a minor tweak should be made. I would suggest the server randomly spawning passive mobs every couple of days if it detects that there are none in an area. The maximum population density would be low, say 1 cow per 50 chunks or so (numbers would need adjusting).
While effectively eliminating the issue of livestock extinction on servers, this would also add realism to the system by roughly simulating the animals' migratory travel and natural reproduction rates.
This only makes sense because some mobs, sheep and chickens, actually have natural predators now. If you are unfortunate enough to have the only real sheep herd in your area spawn next to a pack of wolves, you can forget about breeding sheep for a while. Chickens are in less danger, but their initial population will drop on even the most cared for of vegan SSP world as ocelots pick them off. It is my understanding that wolves and ocelots spawn at random, making them effectively infinite while their prey is not.
I don't think I've seen anyone suggest this solution, so I just thought I put in my two bits.
Tarra!
KyoShinda, I don't feel that I should have to go on a quest to find bookshelves I should be able to make them with little trouble.
This
Stealing from the Schnozkin isn't very nice either.
I suppose they could always allow you to break down leather hides into a handful of "leather strips," and use those for the book bindings instead. they could control this in such a way that you could easily get 3 books from a single hide of leather...
I realize what the leather is for and I know it makes sense, I just don't think that adding it is really necessary, I would be fine if they made it so you get 3 or 4 books from the recipe. Which also make sense because considering the amount of leather you could get from a cow, you could easily make many books. Also being able to break it down leather like the guy 2 posts above said is a good idea.
I realize there is another group of players who have a vegetarian/PETA oriented play style who dislike this change because they are being forced to slaughter animals, but that's a minority and shouldn't be catered to in this case. The leather change makes sense and reflects how books have commonly been bound for a long time.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Amen. Good to know I'm not completely alone.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
But oh well, a mod will probably be required anyway, given the other goods that require killing (ink, feathers, and so forth).
Say zombie meat is used instead of leather... we can have another problem in the sense that a zombie is supposed to be someone/person that has died , but has got up from the grave. Right, now this is the problem... it would mean that we will be using human flesh to bind our books with....... !!???