Jeb is working on creating a trading system based on recipes. This is not a suggestion thread. It is a discussion and question thread, hopefully some people can clear things up or offer some alternate routes to this new feature.
How trading currently works:
- Jeb has sets of recipes based on villager class, for example; Farmer Villager sells 3-4 bread for an emerald, the value of the bread is apparant by the emeralds, and the random value lets you either get lucky or unlucky with your set recipe.
- Problems with this system: Emeralds are a new block type and item, people will regenerate their worlds or leave their old base to have these emeralds. You can ALWAYS just trade to get them, even then its not very useful if most of the time you are rushing around getting items that wouldn't interest you otherwise (like paper?) to hopefully get a good recipe for something you might actually want.
- I have found that the more skilled players tend to have a goal of automation, this system is incredibly expensive to automate in a reliable manor. Paper is the only recipe I've seen thusfar that can be even remotely automated according to the wiki (June 23).
This is NOT the best way of doing it, in fact there is no best way of doing anything as far as game design goes, theres really good ways, but there are other really good ways that no one thinks of.
Jeb has in the past redone many things, like brewing and crying obsidian.
An alternate way might be: Jeb just adds a bartering system, no money, so no new block type and no new generating to use this feature ( you can always just sell your random crap to get emeralds though in his system of course ). With a value system, he only has to give an item a value of importance and rarity. This system will be much less buggy and easier to accomplish.
With this system though, not all items can have values, for instance: Cactus would never work this way, people have made cactus farms that gain more than 50000 cacti an hour, this might break balance. Cactus would have a value that sets it around 1 diamond pick for 10000 cactus, which is 2 and a half double chests full. Around 20 minutes, more or less.
This will also aid modders to adjust the trading system in ways that would otherwise take them twice as long with jeb's system of recipes.
If anyone can come up with a logical explanation for such a restrictive trading system, or an alternate route that will let the system be flexible but balanced, please post. -LaVoddel
This is a $20 game with free updates and lost it's replayability a very long time ago.
At this point, I don't really think trading is going to negatively affect the game..
Hi PurpleTopHat. " lost it's replayability". This isn't a typo? I have to disagree because I have a blast with new worlds. I can only speak for my self and of course IMHO.
Hi PurpleTopHat. " lost it's replayability". This isn't a typo? I have to disagree because I have a blast with new worlds. I can only speak for my self and of course IMHO.
Marv
I cannot play this game without the girlfriend or playing with heavy mod usage that entirely revamps how the game even plays now.
1. Make a wheat farm Steal a village's wheat farm, trade it for emeralds. There, you got some without having to explore new region
2. A mayor flaw is, your expecting the player to know how to make a cactus farm with 50k produce an hour. Not everyone knows it, you shouldn't design a system based on the performance of the best players, it should be based on the average players.
3. Just because its a rare item, it doesn't mean I have a use for said item and would accept it.
It's the only way I can play now lol. Just the spending time playing together factor is much better. And actually, because of her i'v been able to dedicate myself to actual real building structures, and not just getting bored after 6 hours.
But I used to like exploring worlds, but then the generation went to ass, now everything looks like craaaap.
Honestly i like the trading system they just need to make emerald more common its rearity is rediculous(maybe atmost 5X rearer than diamond)
Also i agree PurpleTopHat minecraft have made major mystakes that does overshadows all the new content (Heck the new content is part of the problem, to much content in one biome, Optimizing and Ton and Tons of Fixes would be great for a one update, just like beta1.6)
But I used to like exploring worlds, but then the generation went to ass, now everything looks like craaaap.
You got that right PurpleTopHat. Just the color makes it seems you should find barbed wire fences. I don't remember so many caves open to the surface and etc either.
What you say makes a lot of sense. Having set values on things would make a lot of sense, and would open the doors for mods/plugins to tweak the settings (using bread as an example, a mod could be made where the more bread you sell, the less it is worth to where you are selling 64 bread for a single emerald or even making it worthless at some point) It also removes some of the current balance issues on certain items.
Also, moving this to Recent Updates.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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- Problems with this system: Emeralds are a new block type and item, people will regenerate their worlds or leave their old base to have these emeralds.
Jeb has already stated several times that the primary method for getting emeralds is by trading for them. The generated ore blocks are just there as a bonus when you're already mining.
In other words, if you spend your time looking for the ore, or regenerate your entire map just to maybe find some, then you're wasting your time.
Honestly i like the trading system they just need to make emerald more common its rearity is rediculous(maybe atmost 5X rearer than diamond)
Also i agree PurpleTopHat minecraft have made major mystakes that does overshadows all the new content (Heck the new content is part of the problem, to much content in one biome, Optimizing and Ton and Tons of Fixes would be great for a one update, just like beta1.6)
Eh, I don't think the rarity is that bad. I had like 40+ emeralds before I finally found a village in my world.
If anyone can come up with a logical explanation for such a restrictive trading system, or an alternate route that will let the system be flexible but balanced, please post. -LaVoddel
Funny that you mention suggesting an alternate trading system, as I've been trying to come up with a specific system that I simply plan on implementing as a mod on the assumption that Jeb simply won't fix this horribly broken trading system with the village:
While it isn't perfect and perhaps a bit too complex in the eyes of some, it is an alternative. Where Jeb's "fix" to the problem is to simply remove trades after they have been used a few times seems even more weird and going backward on an already broken system making it even worse. I've seen some players set up "markets" that at least group villagers together and then banish/kill villagers who have unfavorable trades. The idea that the only way to get good trades is to kill off villagers should demonstrate just how broken the system is.
I cannot play this game without the girlfriend or playing with heavy mod usage that entirely revamps how the game even plays now.
I play this game with my wife and kids, which does seem to add some real fun and flavor to playing. One of these days when I'm feeling inspired I want to set up a multi-player world that my extended family (a brother plus a couple nephews and nieces) can play on as well, since they are all Minecraft fans.
Jeb has already stated several times that the primary method for getting emeralds is by trading for them. The generated ore blocks are just there as a bonus when you're already mining.
In other words, if you spend your time looking for the ore, or regenerate your entire map just to maybe find some, then you're wasting your time.
I would say I get about a 1/4 the return in emeralds from mining than trading.(if you count the coal mined as traded and not mined as ore)
Every trip to my village I get about 22 emeralds selling wool, pages, coal (sell raw meat/gold/iron occasionally) and like 5 from mining emerald ore w/o fortune pick.
About 7 or so of those emeralds from trading are from coal, so the real difference:
Trading: 15
Mining: 12
About the same but is the same when I sell gold and iron. Not only that, but I go to my farms, sell that stuff, then mine while waiting for all my farms to grow again.
1. Make a wheat farm Steal a village's wheat farm, trade it for emeralds. There, you got some without having to explore new region
2. A mayor flaw is, your expecting the player to know how to make a cactus farm with 50k produce an hour. Not everyone knows it, you shouldn't design a system based on the performance of the best players, it should be based on the average players.
3. Just because its a rare item, it doesn't mean I have a use for said item and would accept it.
I prefer the trading system as it is.
There has been many successful games that design around the best, I.E competitive games, minecraft is a sandbox game, you cannot make it a non-competitive or a competitive game since its either both or neither, simply because its anything you want it to be other than a non-sandbox game.
OT: Its quite simple, I don't think people who can gather enough ender eyes or paper to get enough money to do anything with the current trading system don't know how to make a cactus farm. A bit of a stretch.
How trading currently works:
- Jeb has sets of recipes based on villager class, for example; Farmer Villager sells 3-4 bread for an emerald, the value of the bread is apparant by the emeralds, and the random value lets you either get lucky or unlucky with your set recipe.
- Problems with this system: Emeralds are a new block type and item, people will regenerate their worlds or leave their old base to have these emeralds. You can ALWAYS just trade to get them, even then its not very useful if most of the time you are rushing around getting items that wouldn't interest you otherwise (like paper?) to hopefully get a good recipe for something you might actually want.
- I have found that the more skilled players tend to have a goal of automation, this system is incredibly expensive to automate in a reliable manor. Paper is the only recipe I've seen thusfar that can be even remotely automated according to the wiki (June 23).
This is NOT the best way of doing it, in fact there is no best way of doing anything as far as game design goes, theres really good ways, but there are other really good ways that no one thinks of.
Jeb has in the past redone many things, like brewing and crying obsidian.
An alternate way might be: Jeb just adds a bartering system, no money, so no new block type and no new generating to use this feature ( you can always just sell your random crap to get emeralds though in his system of course ). With a value system, he only has to give an item a value of importance and rarity. This system will be much less buggy and easier to accomplish.
With this system though, not all items can have values, for instance: Cactus would never work this way, people have made cactus farms that gain more than 50000 cacti an hour, this might break balance. Cactus would have a value that sets it around 1 diamond pick for 10000 cactus, which is 2 and a half double chests full. Around 20 minutes, more or less.
This will also aid modders to adjust the trading system in ways that would otherwise take them twice as long with jeb's system of recipes.
If anyone can come up with a logical explanation for such a restrictive trading system, or an alternate route that will let the system be flexible but balanced, please post. -LaVoddel
http://www.minecraft...t-a-fan-theory/
At this point, I don't really think trading is going to negatively affect the game..
Hi PurpleTopHat. " lost it's replayability". This isn't a typo? I have to disagree because I have a blast with new worlds. I can only speak for my self and of course IMHO.
Marv
I cannot play this game without the girlfriend or playing with heavy mod usage that entirely revamps how the game even plays now.
Make a wheat farmSteal a village's wheat farm, trade it for emeralds. There, you got some without having to explore new region2. A mayor flaw is, your expecting the player to know how to make a cactus farm with 50k produce an hour. Not everyone knows it, you shouldn't design a system based on the performance of the best players, it should be based on the average players.
3. Just because its a rare item, it doesn't mean I have a use for said item and would accept it.
I prefer the trading system as it is.
Replaying with a girlfriend is a winner. LOL
I just love exploring new worlds.
Marv
It's the only way I can play now lol. Just the spending time playing together factor is much better. And actually, because of her i'v been able to dedicate myself to actual real building structures, and not just getting bored after 6 hours.
But I used to like exploring worlds, but then the generation went to ass, now everything looks like craaaap.
Honestly i like the trading system they just need to make emerald more common its rearity is rediculous(maybe atmost 5X rearer than diamond)
Also i agree PurpleTopHat minecraft have made major mystakes that does overshadows all the new content (Heck the new content is part of the problem, to much content in one biome, Optimizing and Ton and Tons of Fixes would be great for a one update, just like beta1.6)
You got that right PurpleTopHat. Just the color makes it seems you should find barbed wire fences. I don't remember so many caves open to the surface and etc either.
Marv
Also, moving this to Recent Updates.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Jeb has already stated several times that the primary method for getting emeralds is by trading for them. The generated ore blocks are just there as a bonus when you're already mining.
In other words, if you spend your time looking for the ore, or regenerate your entire map just to maybe find some, then you're wasting your time.
Funny that you mention suggesting an alternate trading system, as I've been trying to come up with a specific system that I simply plan on implementing as a mod on the assumption that Jeb simply won't fix this horribly broken trading system with the village:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1307762-wip-village-economics-plus/
While it isn't perfect and perhaps a bit too complex in the eyes of some, it is an alternative. Where Jeb's "fix" to the problem is to simply remove trades after they have been used a few times seems even more weird and going backward on an already broken system making it even worse. I've seen some players set up "markets" that at least group villagers together and then banish/kill villagers who have unfavorable trades. The idea that the only way to get good trades is to kill off villagers should demonstrate just how broken the system is.
I play this game with my wife and kids, which does seem to add some real fun and flavor to playing. One of these days when I'm feeling inspired I want to set up a multi-player world that my extended family (a brother plus a couple nephews and nieces) can play on as well, since they are all Minecraft fans.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
And yet you keep on playing.
Funny how that works, eh?
Every trip to my village I get about 22 emeralds selling wool, pages, coal (sell raw meat/gold/iron occasionally) and like 5 from mining emerald ore w/o fortune pick.
About 7 or so of those emeralds from trading are from coal, so the real difference:
Trading: 15
Mining: 12
About the same but is the same when I sell gold and iron. Not only that, but I go to my farms, sell that stuff, then mine while waiting for all my farms to grow again.
There has been many successful games that design around the best, I.E competitive games, minecraft is a sandbox game, you cannot make it a non-competitive or a competitive game since its either both or neither, simply because its anything you want it to be other than a non-sandbox game.
OT: Its quite simple, I don't think people who can gather enough ender eyes or paper to get enough money to do anything with the current trading system don't know how to make a cactus farm. A bit of a stretch.