I see what you all are saying, and I do understand your point.
Going AFK at my XP farm isn't necceaarily fun, but it represents what I mean by getting good enchantments being a challenge.
A nice way to balance between these two different system would be like this:
Bump the max enchantment level up to 40 and make each bookcase worth a single level. No bookcases = 10 level max.
Having the maximum level always at the bottom actually is a very beneficial change, since clicking through an enchantment table for 10 minutes is more of a chore than a challenge :-).
If the system was restored to being non-linear (but not QUITE as curved as it was before), I would be much happier with the system. Having it be linear seems a little overboard.
And perhaps mining ore would deposit the XP directly into your bar, instead of generating an orb. No orb = no annoying tinkling sound when you are mining.
I think it's fine how it is now, people who play on peaceful can enchant and you don't have to spent forever to enchant. With the easier enchanting there's also a reason to enchant tools other then diamond stuff.
That simple fact that you needed a mob grinder to obtain the higher levels enchants shows just how broken the sytem is. Right now, using enchanting cost too much and is too random. Either we get to choose the enchants or their cost is lowered. Jeb is planing on lowering the cost, it's a good direction.
The problem with a linear scale is that it doesn't really work for anyone. A few people will think it's too slow, while most others will think it's too fast and consistently reach level 30 without even trying.
A curved scale causes everyone to lie in some middle region. In the old system, the idea was that nobody would reach level 50 (although people went to great lengths to reach it just to complain it wasn't worthwhile); instead you would cap somewhere around the 20s based on how many mobs you killed.
The real problem with the old system was that most good enchantments were at levels above 30. You could easily go through an entire diamond sword getting that much experience just so that your next sword is a bit better, but at that point a stronger sword is pretty much worthless.
While this new system does support more play styles, it makes it trivial to reach the max level for any of them. The system really just needs the quadratic growth back, since right now you can easily get more level 30s than you have tools to enchant.
First thing you have to keep in mind is that lvl 30 < lvl 50 enchantments, so lvl 30 enchs are less rewarding than lvl 50 whcih seems fair. So its not like you go for lvl 30 and its the same thing that 50, at least thats what you seem to say in the first post.
Second thing is the time vs reward. Takes more time to level to 50 than 30 so the reward is bigger which is good for me and the previous system was pure luck based, you can expend several nights and days WITHOUT dying (without using spawners) to get enough lvls for a good Diamond sword and all you get is Bane of Arthropods V.... Fair? I dont think so.
Third thing is the materials... I really rarely enchant iron tools/armor/sword and even bows, i generally use diamond to ges good and lasty stuff and to be objective, diamonds might not be abundant, or not enough to make an armor, tool set and weapon... you generally have to pick something and stick with it untill you can do better and get more stuff... Also remember that fortune picks for diamonds doesnt counts cuz first youll have to enchant your tool with lvl 50 ench (for more probability) on the previous random and luck based system.
I think thats enough by now... i might add more later.
Please people, stop these "don't like it, don't use it" arguments.
If on next snapshot Jeb puts a sword that makes you invincible, deals 20 hearts of damage, poison and slowness to enemies and allow you to fly, it just doesn't make sense to say "don't like it, don't use it".
Overpowered stuff is overpowered and makes the game boring.
It doesn't matter if you want the challenge and avoid the OP stuff, it's still there, waiting for other players to use and pwn you on SMP.
Even on SSP, godlike stuff is boring even if you don't use it.
Saying that you should stop using OP stuff to have a challenge is just like using only a pistol and a knife on a FPS game where you already have rocket launchers. It just doesn't feel good.
I don't think he changed it enough. Sure he eliminated the tedium of flipping through, looking for the max level, and the tedium of mob grinding, but it's still not a system you can learn to manipulate. It should be like potion brewing, or fuel efficiency, make the SGA word strings correspond to specific enchantments, and we're good.
Minecraft shouldnt be a grinde game...you forget that mob farms are not an intentional part of the game....they shouldnt be factored into how hard the game is...minecraft is a casual game...quit expecting it too be uber hard...if anything enchanting is too hard...Grinding isnt fun and fun is the point of a game....
I like the idea of getting XP from other things. Especially mining Coal. But I got from Lv1 to Lv14 mining one pocket in the side of a mountain. Then got to Lv20 the first night from walking around outside slaying things.
I'm not sure if this is what Jeb intended. But it could probably be toned down a slight bit. I feel like for the work I did I only deserve about Lv15. Not Lv20. But hey. I won't be complaining. I'll be mining every damned block of coal I find.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm usually not trying to be rude. So if a post comes across that way then sorry :]
The problem with a linear scale is that it doesn't really work for anyone. A few people will think it's too slow, while most others will think it's too fast and consistently reach level 30 without even trying.
A curved scale causes everyone to lie in some middle region. In the old system, the idea was that nobody would reach level 50 (although people went to great lengths to reach it just to complain it wasn't worthwhile); instead you would cap somewhere around the 20s based on how many mobs you killed.
The real problem with the old system was that most good enchantments were at levels above 30. You could easily go through an entire diamond sword getting that much experience just so that your next sword is a bit better, but at that point a stronger sword is pretty much worthless.
While this new system does support more play styles, it makes it trivial to reach the max level for any of them. The system really just needs the quadratic growth back, since right now you can easily get more level 30s than you have tools to enchant.
I think you nailed the problem with enchanting in this snapshot. Thanks for posting.
Um.. Just got from Lv20 to Lv32 from just mining some coal. I'm only halfway through the second day of this world. Haven't even found a cave to go into o.O I can't believe this is what was intended.
IAnd perhaps mining ore would deposit the XP directly into your bar, instead of generating an orb. No orb = no annoying tinkling sound when you are mining.
What I really love about mining is the constant sound of that "plop" sound you get from picking up an item, I don't really want to hear the XP "ting." Dunno, maybe I'll get used to it.
I dont mind the new enchantment system but holy crap does mojang ever need to scale back the amount of experience we get from doing things. LVL 30 max enchantment is easy enough, but getting lvl 60 in a half hour just from mining? Thats a bit excessive...also I just found out we get exp for cooking stuff now? xD...what the hell haha
You shouldn't have to grind to get enchantments. I know a lot of hardcore gamers consider it just part of video games but it's not intrinsically fun.Grinding, it's a grind. Even with the Superior Enchantment mod and a Endermen XP farm it's pretty laborious to get a nice axe or piece of armor. But I do think this snapshot makes it just a little too easy.
On the other hand maybe it's a good thing. As the Enchantment System stands in 1.2.5 I will never ever let myself die with a high enchanted pickaxe on me. I will find some cheaty way out of the lava. But if Enchantments are easier. . . eh, i don't know. Maybe I could let a high enchanted pickaxe go knowing I'm not looking at 20 minutes at the Enderfarm to replace it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Under no circumstances do I want villagers building ugly little houses in my world. That's my job. Link Removed
There is no challenge whatsoever to gain levels and get high level enchantments. Whereas I would previously have to stand at my Blaze XP farm for 45-60 minutes and then kill the resulting ~500 Blazes with a splash potion, safely make it back to my base, and then spend a few minutes cycling the enchanting table to get a level 50 enchantment, I can now stand there for 5 minutes, kill 25 Blazes, then go back to my base and instantly enchant something for level 30.
I hope you realize that logic makes no sense. Spending 60 minutes grinding at a spawner is virtually the same thing as spending half an hour grinding at that very same spawner. There is no substancial skill needed to exp grind in minecraft. There is no challenge, besides a headache, to grind for 60 minutes compared to half an hour. It's the same thing and concept, one simply takes more time than the other. If you want to grind for an hour, go ahead, but not everybody wants to do that. A 30 level cap on enchantments means that people who want to grind can still grind, but those who dislike grinding don't have to break their own playstyle in order to acheive higher enchantments.
Going AFK at my XP farm isn't necceaarily fun, but it represents what I mean by getting good enchantments being a challenge.
A nice way to balance between these two different system would be like this:
Bump the max enchantment level up to 40 and make each bookcase worth a single level. No bookcases = 10 level max.
Having the maximum level always at the bottom actually is a very beneficial change, since clicking through an enchantment table for 10 minutes is more of a chore than a challenge :-).
If the system was restored to being non-linear (but not QUITE as curved as it was before), I would be much happier with the system. Having it be linear seems a little overboard.
And perhaps mining ore would deposit the XP directly into your bar, instead of generating an orb. No orb = no annoying tinkling sound when you are mining.
A curved scale causes everyone to lie in some middle region. In the old system, the idea was that nobody would reach level 50 (although people went to great lengths to reach it just to complain it wasn't worthwhile); instead you would cap somewhere around the 20s based on how many mobs you killed.
The real problem with the old system was that most good enchantments were at levels above 30. You could easily go through an entire diamond sword getting that much experience just so that your next sword is a bit better, but at that point a stronger sword is pretty much worthless.
While this new system does support more play styles, it makes it trivial to reach the max level for any of them. The system really just needs the quadratic growth back, since right now you can easily get more level 30s than you have tools to enchant.
Second thing is the time vs reward. Takes more time to level to 50 than 30 so the reward is bigger which is good for me and the previous system was pure luck based, you can expend several nights and days WITHOUT dying (without using spawners) to get enough lvls for a good Diamond sword and all you get is Bane of Arthropods V.... Fair? I dont think so.
Third thing is the materials... I really rarely enchant iron tools/armor/sword and even bows, i generally use diamond to ges good and lasty stuff and to be objective, diamonds might not be abundant, or not enough to make an armor, tool set and weapon... you generally have to pick something and stick with it untill you can do better and get more stuff... Also remember that fortune picks for diamonds doesnt counts cuz first youll have to enchant your tool with lvl 50 ench (for more probability) on the previous random and luck based system.
I think thats enough by now... i might add more later.
If on next snapshot Jeb puts a sword that makes you invincible, deals 20 hearts of damage, poison and slowness to enemies and allow you to fly, it just doesn't make sense to say "don't like it, don't use it".
Overpowered stuff is overpowered and makes the game boring.
It doesn't matter if you want the challenge and avoid the OP stuff, it's still there, waiting for other players to use and pwn you on SMP.
Even on SSP, godlike stuff is boring even if you don't use it.
Saying that you should stop using OP stuff to have a challenge is just like using only a pistol and a knife on a FPS game where you already have rocket launchers. It just doesn't feel good.
I'm not sure if this is what Jeb intended. But it could probably be toned down a slight bit. I feel like for the work I did I only deserve about Lv15. Not Lv20. But hey. I won't be complaining. I'll be mining every damned block of coal I find.
I think you nailed the problem with enchanting in this snapshot. Thanks for posting.
What I really love about mining is the constant sound of that "plop" sound you get from picking up an item, I don't really want to hear the XP "ting." Dunno, maybe I'll get used to it.
On the other hand maybe it's a good thing. As the Enchantment System stands in 1.2.5 I will never ever let myself die with a high enchanted pickaxe on me. I will find some cheaty way out of the lava. But if Enchantments are easier. . . eh, i don't know. Maybe I could let a high enchanted pickaxe go knowing I'm not looking at 20 minutes at the Enderfarm to replace it.
Link Removed
Implying that going AFK at a spawner is challenging...
This topic should have ended here.
Regardless, I think Jeb should have given SP bonuses elsewhere instead of just lowering the level cap for enchantments.
I hope you realize that logic makes no sense. Spending 60 minutes grinding at a spawner is virtually the same thing as spending half an hour grinding at that very same spawner. There is no substancial skill needed to exp grind in minecraft. There is no challenge, besides a headache, to grind for 60 minutes compared to half an hour. It's the same thing and concept, one simply takes more time than the other. If you want to grind for an hour, go ahead, but not everybody wants to do that. A 30 level cap on enchantments means that people who want to grind can still grind, but those who dislike grinding don't have to break their own playstyle in order to acheive higher enchantments.