Say what you want about diamonds, but the glowstone should not be changed, When playing in creative glowstone is a key item in almost all builds. The relative rarity and difficulty to obtain glowstone in the game pre-trading was a major hindrance to decent building. Glowstone is too useful aesthetically to be so hard to come by in bulk.
I feel like this trading system doesn't allow for enough OH YEAH moments.
You should be able to sell a music disc and make a fortune, then buy a load of cool junk.
Well considering emeralds are rarer than diamonds, and you not only needs to find one but a village to give it too (that just so happens to have a blacksmith, since not all of them generate with one), I think an emerald for 3-5 diamonds does seem like a good tradeoff.
But of course, that's assuming that you're mining for your emeralds. I can see why it might be an issue if you're getting emeralds by say, selling chickens and wheat or something, and then turning that profit into diamonds.Then yeah, diamonds should maybe be a little more expensive than that. But a whole stack of emeralds for just one diamond? That's freakin' insane. Diamonds are valuable, but they aren't that valuable. Hell now that they're somewhat renewable at all I might have a reason to use them more.
And again, not every village comes with a blacksmith. You could be traveling for a hell of a long time before you even find one. There's still a big luck factor involved in all of this.
Say what you want about diamonds, but the glowstone should not be changed, When playing in creative glowstone is a key item in almost all builds. The relative rarity and difficulty to obtain glowstone in the game pre-trading was a major hindrance to decent building. Glowstone is too useful aesthetically to be so hard to come by in bulk.
Well considering emeralds are rarer than diamonds, and you not only needs to find one but a village to give it too (that just so happens to have a blacksmith, since not all of them generate with one), I think an emerald for 3-5 diamonds does seem like a good tradeoff.
But of course, that's assuming that you're mining for your emeralds. I can see why it might be an issue if you're getting emeralds by say, selling chickens and wheat or something, and then turning that profit into diamonds.Then yeah, diamonds should maybe be a little more expensive than that. But a whole stack of emeralds for just one diamond? That's freakin' insane. Diamonds are valuable, but they aren't that valuable. Hell now that they're somewhat renewable at all I might have a reason to use them more.
And again, not every village comes with a blacksmith. You could be traveling for a hell of a long time before you even find one. There's still a big luck factor involved in all of this.
First off, them selling glowstone is nonsensical, but it definitely isn't overpowered. Second, there is no farming method in existence that will get you enough stuff to sell, in order to keep up with actual, normal mining for diamond.
Even an automatic sugarcane farm will take so many pistons to set up to be efficient that if you had all that iron, you should have enough diamonds to last a lifetime.
What it is useful for is versatility and renew-ability, as well as an excellent XP source.
Based on CURRENT values, I would place their value between 128 and 152 emeralds. (Maybe more?)
152 emeralds for one diamond? It costs ~20 wheat to trade for 1 emerald, so you are saying 1 diamond worth 3040 wheat? That is 15 stacks of bread, enough to fill your hunger bar up 240 times. Do you really think that's how expensive a piece of diamond is? It really sounds like you've never even spent time mining in this game before.
This is an absolutely fantastic point. Within a few hours of a server's first nether portal opening, it can be a ridiculous walk just to SEE glowstone, much less mine it.
I don't think it should be cheap, but it should be there. No, it doesn't make sense that villagers have it, but it doesn't matter because it fixes a really, really annoying problem. I'm willing to overlook it.
This sums up my feelings about diamonds, as well.
The thing that you haven't taken into account in this thread (which is, by the way, very well put together even if I don't agree with it, so kudos) is the factor of time. Even if you can trade for the valuable diamond, the amount of time it takes you to trade in the "useless" items and get one offsets the ease of acquisition. Put it this way; if it takes you an hour to grow enough food/shear enough wool to make a couple of diamond picks worth in emeralds, why not just, you know, mine it yourself? Yeah, it's more dangerous, but in the same time you can get way more diamonds AND other materials you pick up along the way. It may be easier, but it's still not cost efficient or fast.
That said, the last post I'm going to quote:
Is also totally correct. Even though I'm in support of diamond and glowstone sales, wheat is silly. They have wheat farms, and, more importantly, you can grow wheat instantly with bonemeal while simultaneously receiving seeds to grow more wheat. Not only are they buying something illogical, but the very act of harvesting insta-grown wheat gives you more wheat to plant, it's paying for itself!
My suggestion? If you're going to allow the sale of renewable resources (which I feel is important, and the only reason this system is worth it at all), consider melons and pumpkins. Why?
You can bonemeal stems, but that does NOT produce a crop. There is in fact no way to force spawn a sellable crop.
They don't drop seeds, or, more accurately, you have to sacrifice the crop to get the seed.
They take a really long time to grow if you don't bonemeal the stems to begin with.
The idea here is that they would buy whole pumpkins, or whole (not sliced) melons. You could still maintain a farm, but you wouldn't be able to right click spam with dead skeleton dust to quickly amass a fortune.
Anyway, nice thread.
I appreciate the analysis in combination with your complaint, rather than the usual thread-long whinefest with no attempt to quantify an argument that we tend to see around here. <3
I had enough sleep this time, haha. But yeah removing the wheat would REALLY help out!
152 emeralds for one diamond? It costs ~20 wheat to trade for 1 emerald, so you are saying 1 diamond worth 3040 wheat? That is 15 stacks of bread, enough to fill your hunger bar up 240 times. Do you really think that's how expensive a piece of diamond is? It really sounds like you've never even spent time mining in this game before.
I was going off the fact the wheat makes it pretty dang easy. I mean I got quite a bit just by doing that, and experimenting. Like I said, the values are not for sure yet, I was just speculating, no need to flip out man! XD
More balancing should help it out.
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"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
That's a very good idea, being able to sell pumpkins and melons, for the reasons you stated. It also makes sense because the villagers can use the pumpkins to make iron golems.
I had never even considered this, but you have a good point there, too!
Not that I think everything they sell has to make sense, but it's really cool when things work out like that. Makes the world feel more "alive" to be able to rationalize how they get them/ what they do with them.
Well, how about in singleplayer, it only appears after you sell it to a priest?
Sorry, didn't mean to ignore that suggestion, you must have posted while I was typing.
The problem with this is the lack of visual cues to the player. The only way anyone is EVER going to know that is through the wiki, they can't figure it out themselves in-game. Since towns are randomly generated, and since villagers professions are also randomly generated, AND since they are only named in game files and not explicitly during play, there's no way for a player to ever reason out "that is a priest, he will sell glowstone if I give it to him first", and if they do it on accident, they'll have no way of knowing they had any effect.
This could be solved with a visual cue like a speech bubble over their head that had a glowstone and a little pleading face, something like that, to let you know "maybe I should try this", but that system doesn't currently exist or fit with Minecraft very well.
Though, you have stumbled across an idea I like very much: the ability to affect villager economy with my actions.
Ooh a new complaint thread about the snapshot. I wonder who posted it. Locklear308? What a surprise.
Other people said this in your EnderChest complaint thread (By the way, this is your THIRD since 12w21a came out), and I'll say it here: Do your research before you complain. In the EnderChest thread you complained how the chests were too easy to craft, you thought it was with Ender Pearls and not Eyes of Ender. Now in this thread, you're saying that we shouldn't be able to get diamonds from villagers by trading with emeralds. Here's the thing - we can't. We can only trade our diamonds for emeralds. And even if we could... 64 emeralds for one diamond??? You can't be serious. Don't forget emeralds are not Lapis or Redstone. They only drop 1 gem. And being as rare as Lapis in an Extreme Hills biome, it would take ages to find all those veins. Maybe if it was as rare as iron that'd be OK. But it isn't. I think around 10 emeralds would be enough for 1 diamond.
One. You need to grow up.
Two. I've had, several, several people tell me you can trade for not only diamonds, but also diamond armor rarely. If they are wrong, then I assume no responsibility for their errors.
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"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Okay now that everything is all analyzed Can't we just agree that the system needs to be better balanced and settle around A nice big plate of (Hickory/apple smoked) bacon?
Okay now that everything is all analyzed Can't we just agree that the system needs to be better balanced and settle around A nice big plate of (Hickory/apple smoked) bacon?
Haha, I posted in the OP that we all know this is not final, my point, is that we need to remember the kind of things that can be affected by trading, like the value of diamonds.
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"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
NO! This villager trading is chipping away at my new Renewable Resources Mod even more now...
I agree with the price you have suggested.
So you are saying because your mod is being replaced by a much more efficient way to receive the same materials in the vanilla game, the other millions of players who do not use your modifications should be forced to pay sky high prices as a way keep up with your competition?
Way to be.
So you are saying because your mod is being replaced by a much more efficient way to receive the same materials in the vanilla game, the other millions of players who do not use your modifications should be forced to pay sky high prices as a way keep up with your competition?
Way to be.
While I don't know anything about that mod, the prices I posted, were just based on my initial reactions, I believe removing the ability to sell wheat would balance that out.
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"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
I don't think I'm going to read through this thread in it's entirety since I don't care that much, but someone point this out to me if this has been brought up before.
Being able to trade for diamonds and glowstone can be considered compensation for people who want to play a certain style, a challenge of sorts. Now you have a goal of sorts to play the game without going underground or into the Nether. It's for people who want a different way to obtain materials, kind of like being able to find apples and cocoa beans in chests and in trees. One is more efficient, but the other is more challenging.
Two. I've had, several, several people tell me you can trade for not only diamonds, but also diamond armor rarely. If they are wrong, then I assume no responsibility for their errors.
You can't trade for actual diamonds, but you can trade for diamond tools/swords/armor.
I don't think I'm going to read through this thread in it's entirety since I don't care that much, but someone point this out to me if this has been brought up before.
Being able to trade for diamonds and glowstone can be considered compensation for people who want to play a certain style, a challenge of sorts. Now you have a goal of sorts to play the game without going underground or into the Nether. It's for people who want a different way to obtain materials, kind of like being able to find apples and cocoa beans in chests and in trees. One is more efficient, but the other is more challenging.
While...to a certian point this can be acceptable. It also can go to far. In this case, this is a value issue.
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"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Now see...that makes me happy. I never thought about that kind of stuff. Very interesting to think about. Maybe the priests could be interesting in buying glowstone?
Dude...Nether villages. They would be the same, but the blacksmith has better items, and there is a wall around the village with 4 doors to get in.
You should be able to sell a music disc and make a fortune, then buy a load of cool junk.
But of course, that's assuming that you're mining for your emeralds. I can see why it might be an issue if you're getting emeralds by say, selling chickens and wheat or something, and then turning that profit into diamonds.Then yeah, diamonds should maybe be a little more expensive than that. But a whole stack of emeralds for just one diamond? That's freakin' insane. Diamonds are valuable, but they aren't that valuable. Hell now that they're somewhat renewable at all I might have a reason to use them more.
And again, not every village comes with a blacksmith. You could be traveling for a hell of a long time before you even find one. There's still a big luck factor involved in all of this.
Also, this.
I agree with the price you have suggested.
Even an automatic sugarcane farm will take so many pistons to set up to be efficient that if you had all that iron, you should have enough diamonds to last a lifetime.
What it is useful for is versatility and renew-ability, as well as an excellent XP source.
152 emeralds for one diamond? It costs ~20 wheat to trade for 1 emerald, so you are saying 1 diamond worth 3040 wheat? That is 15 stacks of bread, enough to fill your hunger bar up 240 times. Do you really think that's how expensive a piece of diamond is? It really sounds like you've never even spent time mining in this game before.
I had enough sleep this time, haha. But yeah removing the wheat would REALLY help out!
I was going off the fact the wheat makes it pretty dang easy. I mean I got quite a bit just by doing that, and experimenting. Like I said, the values are not for sure yet, I was just speculating, no need to flip out man! XD
More balancing should help it out.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
You CAN'T buy diamonds, just sell them.
Well, how about in singleplayer, it only appears after you sell it to a priest?
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
I had never even considered this, but you have a good point there, too!
Not that I think everything they sell has to make sense, but it's really cool when things work out like that. Makes the world feel more "alive" to be able to rationalize how they get them/ what they do with them.
Sorry, didn't mean to ignore that suggestion, you must have posted while I was typing.
The problem with this is the lack of visual cues to the player. The only way anyone is EVER going to know that is through the wiki, they can't figure it out themselves in-game. Since towns are randomly generated, and since villagers professions are also randomly generated, AND since they are only named in game files and not explicitly during play, there's no way for a player to ever reason out "that is a priest, he will sell glowstone if I give it to him first", and if they do it on accident, they'll have no way of knowing they had any effect.
This could be solved with a visual cue like a speech bubble over their head that had a glowstone and a little pleading face, something like that, to let you know "maybe I should try this", but that system doesn't currently exist or fit with Minecraft very well.
Though, you have stumbled across an idea I like very much: the ability to affect villager economy with my actions.
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
One. You need to grow up.
Two. I've had, several, several people tell me you can trade for not only diamonds, but also diamond armor rarely. If they are wrong, then I assume no responsibility for their errors.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Haha, I posted in the OP that we all know this is not final, my point, is that we need to remember the kind of things that can be affected by trading, like the value of diamonds.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
I see what you did there
So you are saying because your mod is being replaced by a much more efficient way to receive the same materials in the vanilla game, the other millions of players who do not use your modifications should be forced to pay sky high prices as a way keep up with your competition?
Way to be.
While I don't know anything about that mod, the prices I posted, were just based on my initial reactions, I believe removing the ability to sell wheat would balance that out.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Being able to trade for diamonds and glowstone can be considered compensation for people who want to play a certain style, a challenge of sorts. Now you have a goal of sorts to play the game without going underground or into the Nether. It's for people who want a different way to obtain materials, kind of like being able to find apples and cocoa beans in chests and in trees. One is more efficient, but the other is more challenging.
You can't trade for actual diamonds, but you can trade for diamond tools/swords/armor.
Well, that is even worse.
While...to a certian point this can be acceptable. It also can go to far. In this case, this is a value issue.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
Dude...Nether villages. They would be the same, but the blacksmith has better items, and there is a wall around the village with 4 doors to get in.
http://www.youtube.c...ng?feature=mhee