You mad? On a serious topic, keep in mind that not all the players have the freaking time to spend hours just to get one diamond(this is a casual game, after all) When some of my waterpolo buddies who play the game heard about this feature, they were ****ing giddy because they could cut down the time it takes for them to replace tools and spend more time building(Yes they know about creative, but that removes the fun challenges that everyone likes, such as mob interactions)
My point is that this feature is stretching out to the players who don't spend whole days playing the game. This makes the game more playable to those who only spend ~20 minutes playing per day so they can do other more important things like homework/play sports/watch tv/hangout with friends/work/etc. This is actually a really smart move on mojang's part as the game can fit both the playing style of hardcore players and casual players, thus expanding their potential player base. And honestly, isn't it a GOOD thing that we will be able to spend less time on this game to get the same results? I mean, why would you spend a day to make a castle on a new world when you can spend a few hours thanks to being able to get the resources quicker? This will give you more time to do other things in the game and in real life, and how can that be a bad thing? Well, aside from if you have nothing better to do in your life(which I hope isn't the case, but judging locklear's complaints I wouldn't be suprised. Prove me wrong)
Now here is your assignment Locklear: explain how my reasoning will negatively affect you and the community. Because from what it seems, spending less time playing video games with the same level of enjoyment sounds like a good deal, doesn't it?
Clearly you don't understand what games are. Minecraft is not a tool you use to achieve some real-life end result.
You even contradict yourself. First you say that playing survival is justified because it is more fun than creative, but then you say that spending more time playing is a bad thing. The challenges added by survival inevitably force you to play longer to build the same castle that you could build in an hour in creative mode.
I am a ****ing studying to be a game programmer, and I am a alright one as is. I think I would know what games are. Minecraft is a form of entertainment, but people are fighting so much just because the entertainment can be achieved in less time.
Also, my point flew right over your head... The point was that the game becomes less time consuming, thus making it more open to those who have tighter schedules and, you know, lives. And I was saying my friends' justification, not my own. Some people may want to play survival, but they don't have the time to play as long as what an average minecraft player plays for, so thus it takes them longer to get the same things as the average user. This feature allows them to get to do the same things as the average users without spending as much time as them. Who says that games have to be played for a long time to be fun?
Well, if it is quicker to get diamonds from villagers than mining, all you are really saying is how unbalanced it is, which means they should make it as even as possible. Some want to trade some want to mine, but why hinder one style over another?
I am a ****ing studying to be a game programmer, and I am a alright one as is. I think I would know what games are. Minecraft is a form of entertainment, but people are fighting so much just because the entertainment can be achieved in less time.
Also, my point flew right over your head... The point was that the game becomes less time consuming, thus making it more open to those who have tighter schedules and, you know, lives. And I was saying my friends' justification, not my own. Some people may want to play survival, but they don't have the time to play as long as what an average minecraft player plays for, so thus it takes them longer to get the same things as the average user. This feature allows them to get to do the same things as the average users without spending as much time as them. Who says that games have to be played for a long time to be fun?
I'm also studying game programming. The difference is that I'm earning a Computer Science degree and working on games as I go, so I actually write code. For example, I just this morning vastly improved my specialized 3-dimensional collision resolution system.
Your point of view represents one of the biggest threats to the game industry. You want games to be even shorter than they already are. We're already seeing an average of only 8-12 hours of gameplay in $60 games.
And what's this about "getting the same things as the average user?" You don't "get" anything by playing Minecraft.
To reiterate, I have gotten to diamonds within 5 minutes of gameplay. Is THAT unbalanced? And even if you trade raw diamonds to the villagers, you only get at most one seventh of the money it takes to make a tool. And if you trade wheat, that requires you to plant all the seeds and wait for them to grow, which using the amount of crops in the farm that would take about 360 minutes waiting for everything to grow to the point where you have enough emeralds to buy a shovel(assuming the village has 4 working wheat farms)
Either way, both methods are time consuming, one is just more catering towards hardcore players(mining) while the other is more catering towards casual gamers(trading)
You get false satisfaction, but I'm talking about getting "more" in-game stuff accomplished.
And you can get potentially hundreds of hours of gameplay in one $30 game(minecraft)
And in that respect, I believe buying diamonds should stay. This allows the player to play a different role in the game. Instead of just being the miner, you could be a farmer or book maker and exchange your goods for things miners would have.
And in that respect, I believe buying diamonds should stay. This allows the player to play a different role in the game. Instead of just being the miner, you could be a farmer or book maker and exchange your goods for things miners would have.
It adds more roles and perspectives to Minecraft. When was the last time you collected books to buy a gem to get diamonds? It's a side-quest, not a forced feature.
I would just say he has more time to program. "Better" is relative to the context of the conversation, which in his case was just trying to pull rank on me.
Precisely. I've always hoped Jeb or Notch would try and make SSP very much like SMP in terms of trading and such, this would allow players who can't play SMP for whatever reason to still have close to the same fun in SSP.
128 diamonds is ridiculous.. I am not a pro miner but I mine better than average. I could find about 8 diamonds in 30 minutes. 8 Emeralds are still alot... but some items like paper should defiantly be less expensive. Yes I do agree that trading needs to be revamped.
You mad? On a serious topic, keep in mind that not all the players have the freaking time to spend hours just to get one diamond(this is a casual game, after all) When some of my waterpolo buddies who play the game heard about this feature, they were ****ing giddy because they could cut down the time it takes for them to replace tools and spend more time building(Yes they know about creative, but that removes the fun challenges that everyone likes, such as mob interactions)
My point is that this feature is stretching out to the players who don't spend whole days playing the game. This makes the game more playable to those who only spend ~20 minutes playing per day so they can do other more important things like homework/play sports/watch tv/hangout with friends/work/etc. This is actually a really smart move on mojang's part as the game can fit both the playing style of hardcore players and casual players, thus expanding their potential player base. And honestly, isn't it a GOOD thing that we will be able to spend less time on this game to get the same results? I mean, why would you spend a day to make a castle on a new world when you can spend a few hours thanks to being able to get the resources quicker? This will give you more time to do other things in the game and in real life, and how can that be a bad thing? Well, aside from if you have nothing better to do in your life(which I hope isn't the case, but judging locklear's complaints I wouldn't be suprised. Prove me wrong)
Now here is your assignment Locklear: explain how my reasoning will negatively affect you and the community. Because from what it seems, spending less time playing video games with the same level of enjoyment sounds like a good deal, doesn't it?
that's why they add the difficult "easy" come on.... if you get late game stuff in little time you will get bored sooner and i dont belive Mojang want that is like an MMORPG....if you can get the best spells in your first day of playing you will get bored sooner...making the life of the game shorter is the worst thing they can make
....really? This topic devolved into THAT type of arguing? It being mostly on page 8, hopefully that's the END of it, since it accomplished absolutely nothing aside from wasting space.
We can argue all these things about this all day, and frankly, it's not going to get anywhere.
I think though, this issue can be summed up very easily: The trading system is NOT very balanced right now. Simple as that. We'll all just have to wait and see what Jeb does with this (and hopefully he DOES do something, I dont entirely care what, just SOMETHING).
At the same time, it's not unbalanced to the point of absurdity like the enchanting system is right now (7 levels from a few blocks of coal!), and in an overall sense, is a good addition to the game. The prices dont always make sense, both in comparison to each other (diamond VS iron), and sometimes in comparison to certain things you can do in the world to gain items. But for now.... it'll do.
Wow, are those the current prices? That's just a mess. I really hope Jeb has a plan
..........wait. You didnt actually LOOK at them before making this topic? Sigh.... Did anyone bother to look? This might explain why everyone kept mentioning the ability to buy diamonds (as in the actual diamonds, not the tools MADE of diamond) when you cannot, in fact, do that.
But yes, it rather is a bit of a mess, isnt it.
Also, a couple of things are actually wrong on that listing. Like the ender eyes, the Priest no longer buys them from you, as that list shows, he SELLS them for 7-10 emeralds each. You also cannot sell zombie flesh at all anymore. It's all on the Wiki site under "trading", all updated and all that. Also the wiki's listing is easier to read; THAT one up there gives me a headache just looking at it.
You get false satisfaction, but I'm talking about getting more in-game stuff accomplished than if you spend 20 minutes a day mining.
There is no such thing as false satisfaction. There is only satisfaction.
Getting more stuff in the same amount of time does not improve satisfaction. People will like the change for the first few hours, but then it becomes the new standard and over time just causes the game to be shorter.
Oh, that's cool. I'm getting all my coding knowledge from $40 books and my dad. That is at least when I'm not swimming, playing waterpolo, in highschool or doing homework. So I apologize if this 16 year old isn't as much of a coding genius as you are.
I'm not trying to say I'm a better coder than you. A degree gets you a job, but doing your own projects is what makes you a better programmer. Those books will probably teach you more than any class.
I think though, this issue can be summed up very easily: The trading system is NOT very balanced right now. Simple as that.
So let me get this straight.
You think the trading system is unbalanced because you can buy diamonds? As opposed to what? Mining down and digging in a straight line to find them that way?
You think the trading system is unbalanced because you can buy diamonds? As opposed to what? Mining down and digging in a straight line to find them that way?
I don't see your reasoning here.
*sigh*
It's because the numbers just dont make sense. It's not like it has to be bloody PERFECT or something. And I'm pretty sure I already explained my reasoning about 2 or 3 times in this topic, in detail. Diamond helm VS diamond shovel, for instance. These cost the exact same amount when you buy from villagers. Exactly seven emeralds. THIS MAKES NO SENSE. A diamond shovel is easier to craft; it requires ONE diamond, just one. A diamond HELM requires FIVE. But they cost exactly the same. This is just an example of a couple numbers that dont really make sense. There are many more examples, some more obvious than others; I'm not listing them all here. (also, for the millionth time: You CANNOT DIRECTLY BUY DIAMONDS. Only diamond EQUIPMENT. *look* at the listing on the wiki. Dunno how many times I've pointed this out. Some large number.)
Obviously, the player never HAS to use the trading system. That's part of why this game is so great, is all the different ways you can go about doing things. So sure, they can go mining, or caving, and find diamonds that way and craft those items, or hell, go onto a mountaintop, build a giant statue of a creeper sitting on a chicken, and then dance for an hour. Whatever. But, when players DO go to use the trading system..... it should at least be better balanced than it is right now. That's all I mean.
Then there you go. Trading is balanced out since it's more practical to find diamonds yourself.
Actually, at this point, in terms of sheer efficiency, it's more practical NOT to, aside from the very first few.
And I meant balanced out within the trading system itself (as in, pricing of one object compared to pricing of the next) a bit more than compared to running around with a pick.
And I meant balanced out within the trading system itself (as in, pricing of one object compared to pricing of the next) a bit more than compared to running around with a pick.
The trading system is specifically overpriced for people like you who complain about how "easy" it makes getting diamonds.
Either way, both methods are time consuming, one is just more catering towards hardcore players(mining) while the other is more catering towards casual gamers(trading)
I guess that makes sense, and it is true, a lot of us like to talk about diamonds taking a while to find but then we use our special methods and get them in droves.
Oh, that's cool. I'm getting all my coding knowledge from $40 books and my dad. That is at least when I'm not swimming, playing waterpolo, in highschool or doing homework. So I apologize if this 16 year old isn't as much of a coding genius as you are.
To both of you: Experience in programming is irrelevant to balancing the game, just with getting it done quickly, but I think that was already obvious. :/
The main problem I have is that diamond swords are more expensive than diamond pickaxes, even though diamond swords require less diamonds to craft. It is also like this with many other tools/armor. Another thing I don't like is how diamond stuff aren't that much more expensive than iron stuff.
Clearly you don't understand what games are. Minecraft is not a tool you use to achieve some real-life end result.
You even contradict yourself. First you say that playing survival is justified because it is more fun than creative, but then you say that spending more time playing is a bad thing. The challenges added by survival inevitably force you to play longer to build the same castle that you could build in an hour in creative mode.
I'm also studying game programming. The difference is that I'm earning a Computer Science degree and working on games as I go, so I actually write code. For example, I just this morning vastly improved my specialized 3-dimensional collision resolution system.
Your point of view represents one of the biggest threats to the game industry. You want games to be even shorter than they already are. We're already seeing an average of only 8-12 hours of gameplay in $60 games.
And what's this about "getting the same things as the average user?" You don't "get" anything by playing Minecraft.
And in that respect, I believe buying diamonds should stay. This allows the player to play a different role in the game. Instead of just being the miner, you could be a farmer or book maker and exchange your goods for things miners would have.
Edit your post as SOON as I quote it, won't ya.
:/
It adds more roles and perspectives to Minecraft. When was the last time you collected books to buy a gem to get diamonds? It's a side-quest, not a forced feature.
Is that a bad thing?
Sorry, I completely forgot your point after you were arguing with the guy earlier with who's better at programming.
Eh, forget what I was saying then.
Precisely. I've always hoped Jeb or Notch would try and make SSP very much like SMP in terms of trading and such, this would allow players who can't play SMP for whatever reason to still have close to the same fun in SSP.
Wow, are those the current prices? That's just a mess. I really hope Jeb has a plan
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
that's why they add the difficult "easy" come on.... if you get late game stuff in little time you will get bored sooner and i dont belive Mojang want that is like an MMORPG....if you can get the best spells in your first day of playing you will get bored sooner...making the life of the game shorter is the worst thing they can make
....really? This topic devolved into THAT type of arguing? It being mostly on page 8, hopefully that's the END of it, since it accomplished absolutely nothing aside from wasting space.
We can argue all these things about this all day, and frankly, it's not going to get anywhere.
I think though, this issue can be summed up very easily: The trading system is NOT very balanced right now. Simple as that. We'll all just have to wait and see what Jeb does with this (and hopefully he DOES do something, I dont entirely care what, just SOMETHING).
At the same time, it's not unbalanced to the point of absurdity like the enchanting system is right now (7 levels from a few blocks of coal!), and in an overall sense, is a good addition to the game. The prices dont always make sense, both in comparison to each other (diamond VS iron), and sometimes in comparison to certain things you can do in the world to gain items. But for now.... it'll do.
..........wait. You didnt actually LOOK at them before making this topic? Sigh.... Did anyone bother to look? This might explain why everyone kept mentioning the ability to buy diamonds (as in the actual diamonds, not the tools MADE of diamond) when you cannot, in fact, do that.
But yes, it rather is a bit of a mess, isnt it.
Also, a couple of things are actually wrong on that listing. Like the ender eyes, the Priest no longer buys them from you, as that list shows, he SELLS them for 7-10 emeralds each. You also cannot sell zombie flesh at all anymore. It's all on the Wiki site under "trading", all updated and all that. Also the wiki's listing is easier to read; THAT one up there gives me a headache just looking at it.
There is no such thing as false satisfaction. There is only satisfaction.
Getting more stuff in the same amount of time does not improve satisfaction. People will like the change for the first few hours, but then it becomes the new standard and over time just causes the game to be shorter.
And I would like for it to stay that way.
I'm not trying to say I'm a better coder than you. A degree gets you a job, but doing your own projects is what makes you a better programmer. Those books will probably teach you more than any class.
So let me get this straight.
You think the trading system is unbalanced because you can buy diamonds? As opposed to what? Mining down and digging in a straight line to find them that way?
I don't see your reasoning here.
*sigh*
It's because the numbers just dont make sense. It's not like it has to be bloody PERFECT or something. And I'm pretty sure I already explained my reasoning about 2 or 3 times in this topic, in detail. Diamond helm VS diamond shovel, for instance. These cost the exact same amount when you buy from villagers. Exactly seven emeralds. THIS MAKES NO SENSE. A diamond shovel is easier to craft; it requires ONE diamond, just one. A diamond HELM requires FIVE. But they cost exactly the same. This is just an example of a couple numbers that dont really make sense. There are many more examples, some more obvious than others; I'm not listing them all here. (also, for the millionth time: You CANNOT DIRECTLY BUY DIAMONDS. Only diamond EQUIPMENT. *look* at the listing on the wiki. Dunno how many times I've pointed this out. Some large number.)
Obviously, the player never HAS to use the trading system. That's part of why this game is so great, is all the different ways you can go about doing things. So sure, they can go mining, or caving, and find diamonds that way and craft those items, or hell, go onto a mountaintop, build a giant statue of a creeper sitting on a chicken, and then dance for an hour. Whatever. But, when players DO go to use the trading system..... it should at least be better balanced than it is right now. That's all I mean.
Actually, at this point, in terms of sheer efficiency, it's more practical NOT to, aside from the very first few.
And I meant balanced out within the trading system itself (as in, pricing of one object compared to pricing of the next) a bit more than compared to running around with a pick.
Start a new world. Play the game without trading and see how quickly you can find diamonds. Then start another new world. Trade for diamonds.
The trading system is specifically overpriced for people like you who complain about how "easy" it makes getting diamonds.
To both of you: Experience in programming is irrelevant to balancing the game, just with getting it done quickly, but I think that was already obvious. :/