It's funny, because everyone posting in this thread has probably never shot a gun before in their lives.
I've seen people argue about the early chinese muzzle loaders; are you kidding me? That would be useless. Muzzle loaders get ONE SHOT and then take over a minute and a half to load. Not only that, but for every shot fired, you would need gunpowder, a wad, and a projectile(three different objects) just to load it up again.
If you want guns in Minecraft, that's your decision. But trust me, if guns WERE added, SMP would be impossible. SSP would get boring. And overall, it just isn't a good idea.
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I've been a Minecraft player since Beta 1.7, still my favorite game!
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
To that I'd say you need to fathom a good deal deeper
Okay, let's ignore the fact that guns would destroy all semblance of verisimilitude for a moment.
Where would guns come into play, balance-wise? Bows are already the Minecraft analogue for guns.
Primitive rifles would be good, as in some of the first firearms that used percussion caps that were invented during the American Civil War. Accurate, decent range, but expensive and with a long reload time.
The crafting recipe for bullets could be 1 flint (or iron), 1 gunpowder, and 1 redstone to make 4 bullets. To load the rifle, you need to craft a bullet with the rifle in the crafting grid, then you can fire once.
Verisimilitude (or truthlikeness) is the quality of realism in something (such as film, literature, the arts, etc). According to the American Heritage Dictionary, it is "The quality of appearing to be true or real." Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary, 11th Edition defines VERISIMILAR as: 1 : having the appearance of truth : probable 2: depicting realism (as in art or literature).
Are we even using this word in the same sense? What in Minecraft do we have to worry about verisimilitude?
Where would guns come into play, balance-wise? Bows are already the Minecraft analogue for guns.
How about the real-life tradoffs: more punching power, more range, slower reload, more/less accuracy? How's that for versimilitude?
Are we even using this word in the same sense? What in Minecraft do we have to worry about verisimilitude?
I think that Minecraft has established the rules of its own universe pretty well, actually.
The devs have said that there will NOT be guns in Minecraft, for that very reason, okay?
Minecraft can have a "medieval" gun but it doesn't need to be realistic.
It could actually work as a bow alternative. Why would SMP be impossible ? It just needs balance, it doesn't even need to be stronger than the bow, but a different gameplay feel, a different balance. So any player can either prefer using a bow or a gun because it is different.
And it can be different on so many values :
-Aesthetic
-Reload time
-Critical hit frequency
-Basic Damage
-Difficulty on crafting recipe
-And so on
On the cat topic, while I don't mind the ocelot, do people really think the cute kitties you can tame really fit the otherworldly feel ?
I'm not suggesting to add guns in Minecraft, but people before screaming "oh noes don't touch my vanilla minecraft, it doesn't fit"
They should brainstorm a bit longer, maybe the idea isn't that aweful that it seems.
Not everyone who disagrees with you is close minded.
The only way to balance out a gun from a bow is to make it a near one-shot kill, because bows can fire much faster than any pre-1860s firearms. And, like I said, that would make SMP impossible. It would also make SSP gun kills redundant.
I just don't see how adding guns would be a good thing. Guns don't belong in every game.
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I've been a Minecraft player since Beta 1.7, still my favorite game!
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
I would like to see an adventure mode where some things, such as picks are not craft-able by the player, and many more things can be found in chests. Perhaps make tools no longer break, and increase the number of ruins that spawn in the world. Make some blocks breakable, but most blocks no longer editable. Such as making it where the player can break stone, but it takes a while, and it would drop no block (so you could get into caves and things, but make it very hard to even try to dig a mine.
I think that Minecraft has established the rules of its own universe pretty well, actually.
The devs have said that there will NOT be guns in Minecraft, for that very reason, okay?
I think that Minecraft has established the rules of its own universe pretty well, actually.
Right... and what would those rules be? Cobblestone can float but sand can't?
I know Notch said that long ago, but he's not the lead developer anymore. I haven't heard anything from Jeb about guns one way or another. But not everything the devs say comes true, and decisions that are made can be reversed, especially if a significant number of players ask for it.
And, as always, if someone feels as though an aspect doesn't fit the "feel" of Minecraft, they don't need to use it, and as we seem to be going with the new number of purely decorative alternative blocks, a bit of variation isn't a bad thing. Every update there's a storm of post threads going "Minecraft has lost its feel/touch" or "This new thing doesn't belong in the game!" And what happens in the end? Players learn to adapt.
Well, we already do have fireball shooters in Minecraft now, you realize. And fireballs that come from Blaze fists or Ghast mouths...
Blaze fists? What?
The point of those mobs having those abilities is to make them difficult. By bringing them up, you give me another reason why guns shouldn't be in MC; it makes these mobs too easy.
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I've been a Minecraft player since Beta 1.7, still my favorite game!
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
And that's why I said you're close minded. Not because you disagree, but the only thing you can think of is "Gun = OP".
No one said it should one shot kill everything.
It can even be underpowered, a musket gun that makes some "bang" noise, a cool particle effect and even a decent looking sprite, my bet people would use it for the fun of it.
There's just so many ways to balance things, make some mobs immune to this, make some mobs weaker to that. I've wrote other values to account for, 2 pages ago.
But even without talking about balance, there's so many other reasons people may want to have some kind of gun, that I've already listed a few before.
Without balance, it would be a USELESS addition to the game. And again, someone who doesn't agree with you isn't close minded. Honestly, learn how to debate; that's called an Ad Hominem, and it voids your argument.
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I've been a Minecraft player since Beta 1.7, still my favorite game!
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
By bringing them up, you give me another reason why guns shouldn't be in MC; it makes these mobs too easy.
And what, fully drawn back bows don't? You're calling guns "OP" despite there not really being any consensus or consistant idea on how they would be implemented and their relative usefulness/power; rather, you dismiss them immediately by saying they'll be OP. I believe this is why Riose is calling you closed minded.
Without balance, it would be a USELESS addition to the game.
Eh... the ability to rapid-click your mouse to create an uncrossable wall of fury when attacking enemy mobs with your sword should be enough for any player to realize that Minecraft has never been much of a competitive, balanced PVP or survival-combat experience.
I think this discussion is ridiculous.
We only can speculate on how guns could work. Guns done the wrong way could be really gamebreaking. On the other side, done right, they could be a nice addition. But that is something you can say about every feature and since we don't know how guns would work, it does not make sense to argue about balance and stuff like that.
So this breaks this discussion down to one central question: Do you think guns suit Minecraft? And this is just a matter of taste.
Just like the discussion about potions and enchantments: Some people like it others don't...
I agree, I personally don't feel that guns would fit in the game; but, if a gun were added in right I'm willing to change my position.
I do however remember a quote from Notch saying there would never be guns in the game, I cannot find the source for it though and it really wouldn't matter anyhow because they've changed their minds on other things before now.
Guns hardly equate to everything. We now have cats who have little purpose other than to be annoying and kind of scare away creepers. This was once in the domain of the mods too, just like pistons.
My point was, where does it stop? Let me put it another way.
I want lasers in minecraft.. and a spacestation to fire them from, since we're adding these it would only make sense to make the minecraft world the same size as Earth and spherical. How else will the spacestation maintain orbit? I want nukes too, and since we have nukes why don't we change the player character to Duke Nukem?
I've seen people argue about the early chinese muzzle loaders; are you kidding me? That would be useless. Muzzle loaders get ONE SHOT and then take over a minute and a half to load. Not only that, but for every shot fired, you would need gunpowder, a wad, and a projectile(three different objects) just to load it up again.
If you want guns in Minecraft, that's your decision. But trust me, if guns WERE added, SMP would be impossible. SSP would get boring. And overall, it just isn't a good idea.
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
Okay, let's ignore the fact that guns would destroy all semblance of verisimilitude for a moment.
Where would guns come into play, balance-wise? Bows are already the Minecraft analogue for guns.
The crafting recipe for bullets could be 1 flint (or iron), 1 gunpowder, and 1 redstone to make 4 bullets. To load the rifle, you need to craft a bullet with the rifle in the crafting grid, then you can fire once.
Are we even using this word in the same sense? What in Minecraft do we have to worry about verisimilitude?
How about the real-life tradoffs: more punching power, more range, slower reload, more/less accuracy? How's that for versimilitude?
I think that Minecraft has established the rules of its own universe pretty well, actually.
The devs have said that there will NOT be guns in Minecraft, for that very reason, okay?
Not everyone who disagrees with you is close minded.
The only way to balance out a gun from a bow is to make it a near one-shot kill, because bows can fire much faster than any pre-1860s firearms. And, like I said, that would make SMP impossible. It would also make SSP gun kills redundant.
I just don't see how adding guns would be a good thing. Guns don't belong in every game.
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Adventure
Right... and what would those rules be? Cobblestone can float but sand can't?
I know Notch said that long ago, but he's not the lead developer anymore. I haven't heard anything from Jeb about guns one way or another. But not everything the devs say comes true, and decisions that are made can be reversed, especially if a significant number of players ask for it.
And, as always, if someone feels as though an aspect doesn't fit the "feel" of Minecraft, they don't need to use it, and as we seem to be going with the new number of purely decorative alternative blocks, a bit of variation isn't a bad thing. Every update there's a storm of post threads going "Minecraft has lost its feel/touch" or "This new thing doesn't belong in the game!" And what happens in the end? Players learn to adapt.
SIKE! DAS DA WRONG NUMBAH!
Even if it isn't guns, it's lighting or fireballs coming out of someones fists.
We'll leave the projectile weapons here to a simple bow and an extremely complex resource-intensive TNT cannon.
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
Well, we already do have fireball shooters in Minecraft now, you realize. And fireballs that come from Blaze fists or Ghast mouths...
Blaze fists? What?
The point of those mobs having those abilities is to make them difficult. By bringing them up, you give me another reason why guns shouldn't be in MC; it makes these mobs too easy.
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
Which is especially funny because I do play CoD and other gun games.
Without balance, it would be a USELESS addition to the game. And again, someone who doesn't agree with you isn't close minded. Honestly, learn how to debate; that's called an Ad Hominem, and it voids your argument.
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
And what, fully drawn back bows don't? You're calling guns "OP" despite there not really being any consensus or consistant idea on how they would be implemented and their relative usefulness/power; rather, you dismiss them immediately by saying they'll be OP. I believe this is why Riose is calling you closed minded.
Eh... the ability to rapid-click your mouse to create an uncrossable wall of fury when attacking enemy mobs with your sword should be enough for any player to realize that Minecraft has never been much of a competitive, balanced PVP or survival-combat experience.
I don't see what's wrong with an ancient firearms in the game. There already is gunpowder.
I agree, I personally don't feel that guns would fit in the game; but, if a gun were added in right I'm willing to change my position.
I do however remember a quote from Notch saying there would never be guns in the game, I cannot find the source for it though and it really wouldn't matter anyhow because they've changed their minds on other things before now.
My point was, where does it stop? Let me put it another way.
I want lasers in minecraft.. and a spacestation to fire them from, since we're adding these it would only make sense to make the minecraft world the same size as Earth and spherical. How else will the spacestation maintain orbit? I want nukes too, and since we have nukes why don't we change the player character to Duke Nukem?
We can add these because guns are ok.