I think we can all essentially agree that we disagree.... we break down into essentially two groups when it comes to farming and there is little either group is going to do to persuade the other.
this is why both groups should be able to do as they like. i personally do not see how having the ability to farm iron interferes with mining iron.
This kind of posts tend to be an everlasting and neverending battlefield where no one is "going to win".
Solution: report the thread and make it delete.
Why would you do that? this is a legitimate discussion and i didn't make it to "win" or fight against anyone. there are forum trolls on every thread in this section because when something new is implemented certain individuals do not like change, or believe that there should be only one way to play the game - their way.
i just wanted to make the point that farming is a legitimate way of playing the game that a lot of players enjoy.
this is why both groups should be able to do as they like. i personally do not see how having the ability to farm iron interferes with mining iron.
Why would you do that? this is a legitimate discussion and i didn't make it to "win" or fight against anyone. there are forum trolls on every thread in this section because when something new is implemented certain individuals do not like change, or believe that there should be only one way to play the game - their way.
i just wanted to make the point that farming is a legitimate way of playing the game that a lot of players enjoy.
Lets face it, one of the groups solution creeples the other people from playing how they want while the other group lets everyone play the way their want. Nobody will understand each other opinions and arguments and we will never get to an agreement, we are going to discuss forever and solve nothing. So... whats the point? Discussing? No, for me this looks more like arguing.
Its nothing personal RedstoneVet, and you can ready my opinion about the "problem" along the post i posted, but i still hold that this is going to get to nothing but disagreement and grief.
You took me wrong. I don't have anything against cool mechanisms producing bonus items, but they must be balanced! I will repeat my example of IC+BC:
I was more aiming towards Mob farming in general, which is a valid alternative to sword-&-board(if we had shields).
The golems are a whole other kettle of fish, I think most people myself included will agree wholeheartedly that golems as they are now are fairly broken. Their reward would be fine if they didn't insta-spawn to their deaths. Its fairly obvious that they need and will be receiving some revisions.
Where I'm taking any issue is more from people coming out rabidly denouncing farming as a whole because of an obvious glitch in a pre-release of an upcoming patch like its canon. which to some extend I understand but on the other hand they sorta jumped the gun in updating their SMP to a pre-release. Its one thing to run a pre-release SMP specifically to test things out and see how things are going to go, its another thing to jump in live and hope that nothing is going to irrevocably bork your world.
There's been a lot of debate on here about mob farming and how its and "exploit," however I would disagree and here's why...
Mob farmers mine, explore, chop wood, fight and kill mobs, and collect resources just as everyone else does. How else do you think they get the materials for their traps?
Mobs should drop items whether or not they are killed by the player. (you already miss out on the xp)
This is the main argument that I see against mob traps:
i disagree.
a grinder is more inventive and requires a vast knowledge of the game, to manipulate the game environment using the resources you collected/explored for and discovered. you need to knowledge of how redstone works, how mobs work, where to explore to find the resources you need, how to craft your materials, and constructing the mob trap.
and what's your point? say for argument sake what your saying is true - then people are only allowed to play the game, the way YOU play the game?
that doesn't sound very fun and doesn't fit with the model of a sandbox game.
Now take iron farming for example:
(Jeb is looking at nerfing the spawn rate, which i agree with - Jeb's Twitter)
1) you must 1st find a npc village, a water source, and a lava source
2) get the npcs to the proper population to spawn several golems.
3) collect/mine/make materials
4) then build it
5) get the npcs inside it (probably with rails and rail cars/you can also have them mate and drop into your trap)
6) there's a fair bit of ingenuity involved in making a farm and knowledge about how mobs and redstone works.
That being said, think about how many arrows, spider eyes, string, etc. you could get if you spent all of that time killing mobs instead of making a mob trap - in the same amount of time you would have gotten roughly the same amount of items. (they are low grade items anyway)
the only difference is that to build a mob trap it requires a lot of ingenuity and collecting lots of resources. it isn't easy - it is inventive and challenging.
Now imagine trying to build and defend a mob trap on a survival pvp/server!
Please make all mob drops farmable.
(Mobs don't have to be killed by the player to drop items)
I don't know how i feel about it being an exploit or not BUT i do farm from time to time for exp because i have no problem breaking rules i don't agree with... because rules aren't always morally correct and i believe that exp is way too hard to get at the moment so i have no problem exploiting to get it...You disagree with this state of mind? Than i guess you disagree with the Boston tea party or what rosa park did because they broke the law...and it was just an unjust law so its ok to break unjust laws...laws don't always mean morals so its not always wrong to break them...yeah how is that for an analogy...and please don't turn this into a political discussion...its was just an analogy...
I don't know how i feel about it being an exploit or not BUT i do farm from time to time for exp because i have no problem breaking rules i don't agree with... because rules aren't always morally correct and i believe that exp is way too hard to get at the moment so i have no problem exploiting to get it...You disagree with this state of mind? Than i guess you disagree with the Boston tea party or what rosa park did because they broke the law...and it was just an unjust law so its ok to break unjust laws...laws don't always mean morals so its not always wrong to break them...yeah how is that for an analogy...and please don't turn this into a political discussion...its was just an analogy...
Dude, freaking rosa parks didn't like mob grinders..
I really wonder what they will nerf in the process of iron golems. If they nerf their respawn it would be kind of dangerous for the villagers. Besides, if someone doesn't like the outcome, they can always mod.
Lets face it, one of the groups solution creeples the other people from playing how they want while the other group lets everyone play the way their want.
but this is the problem. MC is a sandbox game meaning you can play it however you choose.
so why take away choices? This is what makes MC great.
the problem is simply stubbornness and the desire to force people to play a sandbox game one way. which defeats the purpose of a sandbox game... ironically.
really wonder what they will nerf in the process of iron golems. If they nerf their respawn it would be kind of dangerous for the villagers.
not necessarily. villagers really only need golems at night, so Jeb might make it so golems only spawn at night instead of all day long and all night long.
of course there are many other possibilities and im not going to speculate. this is just an example.
there is always a solution.
Maybe there could be a cap on the number of iron golems that would spawn in an area at once (like 3 or something.) Making golems immune to lava would make them harder to kill.
This would slow down the insane rate that you can gather iron.
but this is the problem. MC is a sandbox game meaning you can play it however you choose.
so why take away choices? This is what makes MC great.
the problem is simply stubbornness and the desire to force people to play a sandbox game one way. which defeats the purpose of a sandbox game... ironically.
not necessarily. villagers really only need golems at night, so Jeb might make it so golems only spawn at night instead of all day long and all night long.
of course there are many other possibilities and im not going to speculate. this is just an example.
there is always a solution.
Maybe there could be a cap on the number of iron golems that would spawn in an area at once (like 3 or something.) Making golems immune to lava would make them harder to kill.
This would slow down the insane rate that you can gather iron.
Those are both very good ideas.
I think they should EXTEND the area for them. Right now the same amount spawn back unless they fall out of this zone. They should keep this zone 256 high and 40x40 wide(same size as a village according to villagers).
That would slow down the spawn rate simply because the first would have to die before the next one spawns. Then, if you made it player-kill, it would be essentially just like killing it normally.
making golems player-kill only isn't necessary. slowing the spawn rate should fix the problem and balance golems out and its already being looked into.
making golems player-kill only isn't necessary. slowing the spawn rate should fix the problem and balance golems out and its already being looked into.
i dont see what difference it makes if you farm iron, or mine it.
iron is easy to find.
in the time it would take you to collect your materials for the iron farm, then build it, you could have mined a life time supply of iron already.
Let's get this straight... If you are a reasonable player who plays on normal or hard, you should be able to mine and smelt somewhere around 100 iron ingots in the time it takes to construct a golem farm. I don't know in what universe you would time to mine an infinite amount of iron (not literally) but 100 is certainly far from infinity...
And as far as other mob grinders, everything else is ok because it's not beating around the hard way to obtain the drops, it's just a different way of getting them. With golem farms, it's a broken system because iron is so important for so many things, not like how string us important for bows and fishing poles.
Let's get this straight... If you are a reasonable player who plays on normal or hard, you should be able to mine and smelt ?somewhere around 100 iron ingots in the time it takes to construct a golem farm. I don't know in what universe you would time to mine an infinite amount of iron (not literally) but 100 is certainly far from infinity...
And as far as other mob grinders, everything else is ok because it's not beating around the hard way to obtain the drops, it's just a different way of getting them. With golem farms, it's a broken system because iron is so important for so many things, not like how string us important for bows and fishing poles.
You want to know what's interesting? Iron ingots are used in more recipes than sticks.
Stick recipes: 15
Iron ingot recipes: 21
On one side, I would say iron is always useless to me after one stack. On the other, I would say that farming golems grants you easy access to 21 recipes and it is more cost efficient then all other farms.
How long would that take? They've got a lot of health.
If the rate at which you can kill golems (and the number of golems you can be killing at once) is dropped then iron farms become less ruinous to game balance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
I don't know how i feel about it being an exploit or not BUT i do farm from time to time for exp because i have no problem breaking rules i don't agree with... because rules aren't always morally correct and i believe that exp is way too hard to get at the moment so i have no problem exploiting to get it...You disagree with this state of mind? Than i guess you disagree with the Boston tea party or what rosa park did because they broke the law...and it was just an unjust law so its ok to break unjust laws...laws don't always mean morals so its not always wrong to break them...yeah how is that for an analogy...and please don't turn this into a political discussion...its was just an analogy...
I'm right there with you on the whole EXP thing. The nice thing about mob farms is that they're generally optional but if you want to have fun with any decent enchants and stay sane it's either server commands or Mob farms for you or you're pretty much out of luck. It's too bad everyone is focused on this whole iron thing as getting a decent amount of EXP is what detracts from the fun of this game for me.
this is why both groups should be able to do as they like. i personally do not see how having the ability to farm iron interferes with mining iron.
Why would you do that? this is a legitimate discussion and i didn't make it to "win" or fight against anyone. there are forum trolls on every thread in this section because when something new is implemented certain individuals do not like change, or believe that there should be only one way to play the game - their way.
i just wanted to make the point that farming is a legitimate way of playing the game that a lot of players enjoy.
Lets face it, one of the groups solution creeples the other people from playing how they want while the other group lets everyone play the way their want. Nobody will understand each other opinions and arguments and we will never get to an agreement, we are going to discuss forever and solve nothing. So... whats the point? Discussing? No, for me this looks more like arguing.
Its nothing personal RedstoneVet, and you can ready my opinion about the "problem" along the post i posted, but i still hold that this is going to get to nothing but disagreement and grief.
Sorry.
I was more aiming towards Mob farming in general, which is a valid alternative to sword-&-board(if we had shields).
The golems are a whole other kettle of fish, I think most people myself included will agree wholeheartedly that golems as they are now are fairly broken. Their reward would be fine if they didn't insta-spawn to their deaths. Its fairly obvious that they need and will be receiving some revisions.
Where I'm taking any issue is more from people coming out rabidly denouncing farming as a whole because of an obvious glitch in a pre-release of an upcoming patch like its canon. which to some extend I understand but on the other hand they sorta jumped the gun in updating their SMP to a pre-release. Its one thing to run a pre-release SMP specifically to test things out and see how things are going to go, its another thing to jump in live and hope that nothing is going to irrevocably bork your world.
I don't know how i feel about it being an exploit or not BUT i do farm from time to time for exp because i have no problem breaking rules i don't agree with... because rules aren't always morally correct and i believe that exp is way too hard to get at the moment so i have no problem exploiting to get it...You disagree with this state of mind? Than i guess you disagree with the Boston tea party or what rosa park did because they broke the law...and it was just an unjust law so its ok to break unjust laws...laws don't always mean morals so its not always wrong to break them...yeah how is that for an analogy...and please don't turn this into a political discussion...its was just an analogy...
I really wonder what they will nerf in the process of iron golems. If they nerf their respawn it would be kind of dangerous for the villagers. Besides, if someone doesn't like the outcome, they can always mod.
but this is the problem. MC is a sandbox game meaning you can play it however you choose.
so why take away choices? This is what makes MC great.
the problem is simply stubbornness and the desire to force people to play a sandbox game one way. which defeats the purpose of a sandbox game... ironically.
not necessarily. villagers really only need golems at night, so Jeb might make it so golems only spawn at night instead of all day long and all night long.
of course there are many other possibilities and im not going to speculate. this is just an example.
there is always a solution.
This would slow down the insane rate that you can gather iron.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
I think they should EXTEND the area for them. Right now the same amount spawn back unless they fall out of this zone. They should keep this zone 256 high and 40x40 wide(same size as a village according to villagers).
That would slow down the spawn rate simply because the first would have to die before the next one spawns. Then, if you made it player-kill, it would be essentially just like killing it normally.
slowing the spawn rate should fix the problem and balance golems out and its already being looked into.
making them player-kill only isn't going to eliminate farming and it will hardly slow down the rate of drops.
altering the spawn rate will be most effective for balancing golems out.
a player can kill a golem in probably a couple seconds.
once you spawn a map you get infinite iron forever.
Anyways, I used to use farms. Farms are okay as long as they aren't super crazy. I guess spawn rate of golems would help with that too.
225,000,000... lol its still more than you could ever use.
and yes i agree. a good balance is needed.
Pretty much.
Let's get this straight... If you are a reasonable player who plays on normal or hard, you should be able to mine and smelt somewhere around 100 iron ingots in the time it takes to construct a golem farm. I don't know in what universe you would time to mine an infinite amount of iron (not literally) but 100 is certainly far from infinity...
And as far as other mob grinders, everything else is ok because it's not beating around the hard way to obtain the drops, it's just a different way of getting them. With golem farms, it's a broken system because iron is so important for so many things, not like how string us important for bows and fishing poles.
Stick recipes: 15
Iron ingot recipes: 21
On one side, I would say iron is always useless to me after one stack. On the other, I would say that farming golems grants you easy access to 21 recipes and it is more cost efficient then all other farms.
If the rate at which you can kill golems (and the number of golems you can be killing at once) is dropped then iron farms become less ruinous to game balance.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
I'm right there with you on the whole EXP thing. The nice thing about mob farms is that they're generally optional but if you want to have fun with any decent enchants and stay sane it's either server commands or Mob farms for you or you're pretty much out of luck. It's too bad everyone is focused on this whole iron thing as getting a decent amount of EXP is what detracts from the fun of this game for me.