Whoa!! In this week's snapshot, the world generates from -64 to 320! 64 extra blocks both up and down! This is a *big deal*! I've always felt that Minecraft's underground is pathetically shallow, and now it's doubled just like that!
I can easily see how this change is going to need massive rebalancing of ores, caves, and mountain generation, so some of the delays make a lot of sense in retrospect.
...I wonder if the Nether will be getting taller too? But then, the upper half has never been used as it is. (I've thought for a while it could be used for another dimension.)
I've got my self a little snapshot world going, and the caves are just stupendous now! I haven't even found any dripstone caves yet but just the vastness is much better, much much better. It seems strannge getting round to level 0 and still having plenty of cave underneath (I'm sure I'll get used to it); I had a whole ravine still below level 0.
I may have a slight obsession with collecting copper, i'm sure it's just where it's new and the novelty will wear off.
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To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
Whoa!! In this week's snapshot, the world generates from -64 to 320! 64 extra blocks both up and down! This is a *big deal*! I've always felt that Minecraft's underground is pathetically shallow, and now it's doubled just like that!
I can easily see how this change is going to need massive rebalancing of ores, caves, and mountain generation, so some of the delays make a lot of sense in retrospect.
...I wonder if the Nether will be getting taller too? But then, the upper half has never been used as it is. (I've thought for a while it could be used for another dimension.)
That's nothing. They actually raised the height MC can do several snapshots ago, but it was just hidden pretty deep in the notes. Lots and lots of people missed it. ( Doubly so because you had to raise it manually. The main thing this update did was just change the default. )
Not a little raised either. You can go to approx. -2,000 to +2,000. ( The exact specifics are a bit weird due to the way it works, and there are some minor issues here and there. ) Yes, you read that right. Over 4k of total height. I tested out 2k, and even that was insane.
That being said, there's a sizable performance hit very fast. It's mainly dependent on how much height you can see at once, so if most of your added height is down it's nowhere near as bad. That being said, if you split the up and down, most peoples computers will probably handle 512 total height just fine, with decent computers managing 1k well. 2k+ will take a quite powerful rig to not have a slide show.
That being said, there's a sizable performance hit very fast. It's mainly dependent on how much height you can see at once, so if most of your added height is down it's nowhere near as bad. That being said, if you split the up and down, most peoples computers will probably handle 512 total height just fine, with decent computers managing 1k well. 2k+ will take a quite powerful rig to not have a slide show.
I would be definitely inclined to make the depths even deeper... but I worry that could throw off the balance for ores and the like.
I would be definitely inclined to make the depths even deeper... but I worry that could throw off the balance for ores and the like.
Changing depths doesn't have to change the balance really. If generation used more relative vs. specific numbers, that would pretty much solve the problem.
Even so I'm sure they are looking at ore balance as they tweak things. Also, anyone making custom datapacks/etc. should take that into consideration as well.
I should also make a slight update to my post:
Unfortunately it seems that this new snapshot is bugged. I haven't tested actual full custom dimensions, but at least the overworld ignores setting the max height over 320, and crashes with min_y beyond -64. So, for 21w_06a at least, it looks like larger worlds are a no go. So, you can either have really big worlds ( by using one of the previous snapshots ), or new cave generation/etc. Not both.
Hopefully they fix that up to allow much higher worlds again, and ideally they add a simple world setting in game to change the height / Min_y on creation.
I absolutely love the look of the new caves with the last snapshot and I really can't wait to get in there and start building some nice cave dwellings and dwarf halls. I scrolled through the whole thread and a couple predictions have come true: Stronghold generation from what I've seen is pretty messed up. There's definitely gonna have to be an overhaul to get that all sorted out. I really wonder if they aren't gonna revamp and move strongholds to the deep dark and let the wardens be the single guardian of the portal. I know Mojang said they weren't end-related, but that kinda counts, right? Also actually loving the way mineshafts look now. So many of them have bridges that just pass from one wall of the cave, over a giant chasm, and then right back. It's gonna be so much fun exploring those now.
As for my other thoughts: I'm glad the glowsquid won, it was one I originally voted for. I figured it was gonna drop some kind of glowing ink. It's a squid after all so that was pretty much a given. I really didn't want another hostile, I feel like the game is just littered with those at this point. And the moobloom sounded pretty boring. I just hope that the glow sac gets fully implemented as a dye in the future, making it possible to use with anything that can be dyed like armor, sheep, wool, and maybe glass and concrete and all that. Having a structure that you can see in the dark would be so cool.
And finally, I'm with a lot of people when it comes to archeology. I don't mind it overall but don't really feel like the purpose of making clay pots is worth it. The brush texture will also really need to be changed. If it looked a little more basic I might be a little more inclined to it
Changing depths doesn't have to change the balance really. If generation used more relative vs. specific numbers, that would pretty much solve the problem.
Even so I'm sure they are looking at ore balance as they tweak things. Also, anyone making custom datapacks/etc. should take that into consideration as well.
I should also make a slight update to my post:
Unfortunately it seems that this new snapshot is bugged. I haven't tested actual full custom dimensions, but at least the overworld ignores setting the max height over 320, and crashes with min_y beyond -64. So, for 21w_06a at least, it looks like larger worlds are a no go. So, you can either have really big worlds ( by using one of the previous snapshots ), or new cave generation/etc. Not both.
Hopefully they fix that up to allow much higher worlds again, and ideally they add a simple world setting in game to change the height / Min_y on creation.
Those changes were mostly remnants of when Mojang was toying with the world height to find a balance as to what would work with average pc hardware and current gen consoles. They are either no longer needed or they may bring it back. Bear in mind you originally had to mod the game to have those fluid numbers even work.
A lot of people are crazy for this update. And understandably so. But i think the gravity of this update is way bigger than people even understand.
A lot of people seem to think Minecraft is some perfectly designed game. And don't get me wrong- the PSYCHOLOGY behind it is perfect. But in Beta 1.8 we found out Notch's vision of Minecraft as an RPG never really died, but given his leave around the 1.4-1.5 era, his vision was left incomplete.
As a result, i feel like Minecraft has been left with two clashing philosophies- a community-created one where the game is driven by a need to grow and improve and constantly be making more stuff to feel accomplished, and a more literal, rigid, even numbers-based sense of progression, driven by clear goals almost defined by the game itself, leaving both ideas feeling almost incomplete.
And while i think the former philosophy is incredibly respectable, it'd be hard to truly get down without reverting to Pre- Beta 1.8 mechanics, without the Hunger and Experience. It's not that it HAS to be that way, it's just that a lot of the mechanics are built around the idea of exploring and fighting for progression, like EXP and drops and stuff- something that's only given a bandaid solution by farms and grinders. The finite-ness of Passive mobs for food left people needing to explore and find more to have food, but people chose to start breeding animals. EXP is needed to keep gear at decent durability often, and to make better gear, encouraging exploration, but people have chosen to replace that with EXP farms.
And while i think there is some kind of beauty in exploiting the game's mechanics to solve that issue your own way, i don't feel like, back when these concepts were introduced, that this was the intent. You were meant to explore and fight for progression because Notch's vision of the game as an RPG never really died.
There might be other ways of solving this issue- but how i see it, Mojang is beginning to lean into that more rules-based sense of progression. With the way Ore generation has changed in 21w07, and the tougher layer with Grimstone hiding some of the most valuable things, it creates a clear idea of where to go and when- find diamonds at the bottom of stone, go to the Nether, find Netherite, upgrade to Netherite, and move down into the Grimstone layer, where you'll likely find the Deep Dark towards the bottom, hiding the Warden and whatever valuables lie in the depths of the world. Perhaps even Strongholds will appear exclusively/more frequently down there.
At the same time though, it doesn't make one area obsolete immediately. Iron, Gold, Redstone and Copper still appear far more frequently in other areas, and if you want Emeralds, now, Mining for them in Mountains is going to be a much more efficient way to find them, meaning it isn't just left to the RNG of exploiting villager trading.
And on top of that, just consider the scale of the mountains and caves. It's never going to get tiring to look at and explore, in the way Pre- Beta 1.8's mountains/hills wouldn't because of how strange and quirky the generation could be. It really is going to give the world itself way more impact than it's had in almost a decade, to me. Sure some neat biomes exist, but with miles and miles of flat, identical land in between- even some of the cooler, special biomes feel uninspired and unimportant, they lack scale, their entire draw is their rarity, not their awe- aside from MAYBE the shattered savannahs.
We're now finally reaching a point where there is genuine satisfaction to be had in exploring and progressing linearly, whereas before we were stuck with a flat world designed merely as a canvas, with caves and ore generation where nothing really changed because it was a means to an end, instead of that journey being the ends itself, and it hasn't come at an expense to the rest of the game and the philosophy of building and expanding yourself because there is always a correct, efficient way to do things in the sake of making building and growing less tedious if that's how you wish to play.
I've been under the assumption Minecraft is undergoing a renaissance since 1.13, but- if you'll excuse the pun- this update is really where it's hitting its peak. And you have no idea how excited i am to see what comes next.
New ore texture is so weird and unnecessary. Grimstone texture doesn't tile correctly and say good bye to the good old meta of Y level 13.
New blocks are cool but I don't think that's a good indication for a good snapshot.
Just my opinion.
I presume you're thinking of diamond mining?
Y=13 was and is too high!
The top few layers of the diamond range have less ore (since there are no veins higher up that can protrude into them.)
Y=10 was much better, borderline too high but right at the top of the lava layer.
As of snapshot 21w06a you should still mine for diamonds at around Y=4 to Y=10 because, like netherite, there are now two groups of diamond veins, one vein per chunk attempts to spawn from Y=0 to Y=15 and a second vein per chunk attempts to spawn from Y=-63 to Y=15.
And there's much less lava underground and no pronounced layer for lava pools so no reason not to mine where the most diamonds are.
I didn't like the "new" textures that were added way back in 1.14 so I'm using the included Programmer Art texture pack so I haven't actually seen the 1.17 textures except for the new blocks.
Its alright I guess. I kinda wish another new ore would be added because diamond is gonna be not so hard to find but they've confirmed that isn't happening. I hate to hate change but the world being lowered below 0 makes things like strip mining irrelevant. Unfortunate but I guess its gotta happen.
Strip mining is the most boring thing in Minecraft and anything that makes caving better than shafting is good in my book. However I do find it odd that 1.16 did the exact opposite. 1.16 added ancient debris which is mostly found encased in netherack. It encourages shaft mining. Once you understand ancient debris and the best method to get it it goes from boring to even more boring. You look at 1.17 and the purposed new ore distribution system and you see that levels the playing field for both methods. If you want to shaft there is now optimal layers for each ore, but caving will grant a higher variety or yield even more ore than a shaft would since the large caves cover so much surface area for exposed ores. Both have their advantages. Something they could do to the Nether to at least give an alternative method to get ancient debris would be to have exposed debris occur within the basalt delta biome which currently has nothing in it to warrant its treacherous terrain. Perhaps make it generate in a way that would be able to compete with shafting while not making too common to make shafting pointless. This would mimic 1.17 in how caving is no longer just worse than shaft mining.
Strip mining is the most boring thing in Minecraft and anything that makes caving better than shafting is good in my book. However I do find it odd that 1.16 did the exact opposite. 1.16 added ancient debris which is mostly found encased in netherack. It encourages shaft mining. Once you understand ancient debris and the best method to get it it goes from boring to even more boring. You look at 1.17 and the purposed new ore distribution system and you see that levels the playing field for both methods. If you want to shaft there is now optimal layers for each ore, but caving will grant a higher variety or yield even more ore than a shaft would since the large caves cover so much surface area for exposed ores. Both have their advantages. Something they could do to the Nether to at least give an alternative method to get ancient debris would be to have exposed debris occur within the basalt delta biome which currently has nothing in it to warrant its treacherous terrain. Perhaps make it generate in a way that would be able to compete with shafting while not making too common to make shafting pointless. This would mimic 1.17 in how caving is no longer just worse than shaft mining.
I think ancient debris are for those endgame player which kind of explains why the monotonous way of obtaining it. It gates midgame player from just obtaining it since it needs a lot of resource to obtain ancient debris in an efficient way (i.e either TnT or bed bombing). There's also the danger of occasional lava if you use the traditional strip mining method although another threat to spice up ancient debris gathering is welcome.
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Whoa!! In this week's snapshot, the world generates from -64 to 320! 64 extra blocks both up and down! This is a *big deal*! I've always felt that Minecraft's underground is pathetically shallow, and now it's doubled just like that!
I can easily see how this change is going to need massive rebalancing of ores, caves, and mountain generation, so some of the delays make a lot of sense in retrospect.
...I wonder if the Nether will be getting taller too? But then, the upper half has never been used as it is. (I've thought for a while it could be used for another dimension.)
I've got my self a little snapshot world going, and the caves are just stupendous now! I haven't even found any dripstone caves yet but just the vastness is much better, much much better. It seems strannge getting round to level 0 and still having plenty of cave underneath (I'm sure I'll get used to it); I had a whole ravine still below level 0.
I may have a slight obsession with collecting copper, i'm sure it's just where it's new and the novelty will wear off.
Closed old thread
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Dripstone caves don't naturally generate yet.
Remember those versions that minecraft pranked us with? Specifically:
Those are still downloadable! Watch this video for 2.0:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQdu9LKAdIU
To download the other ones you need to make a folder in the versions folder for minecraft and put the client and JSON file for the versions in there. They all need to be named the same aside from file extensions. Once you do that, you will be able to choose that version when making a new profile with the minecraft launcher.
15w14a is on this link:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/15w14a
1.RV-Pre1 is here:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/1.RV-Pre1
Minecraft 3D is here:
https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Java_Edition_3D_Shareware_v1.34
What would you guys think of some sort of infected, "Sculk Bat" for the Deep Dark that would attack you and perhaps drop something?
That's nothing. They actually raised the height MC can do several snapshots ago, but it was just hidden pretty deep in the notes. Lots and lots of people missed it. ( Doubly so because you had to raise it manually. The main thing this update did was just change the default. )
Not a little raised either. You can go to approx. -2,000 to +2,000. ( The exact specifics are a bit weird due to the way it works, and there are some minor issues here and there. ) Yes, you read that right. Over 4k of total height. I tested out 2k, and even that was insane.
That being said, there's a sizable performance hit very fast. It's mainly dependent on how much height you can see at once, so if most of your added height is down it's nowhere near as bad. That being said, if you split the up and down, most peoples computers will probably handle 512 total height just fine, with decent computers managing 1k well. 2k+ will take a quite powerful rig to not have a slide show.
I would be definitely inclined to make the depths even deeper... but I worry that could throw off the balance for ores and the like.
Changing depths doesn't have to change the balance really. If generation used more relative vs. specific numbers, that would pretty much solve the problem.
Even so I'm sure they are looking at ore balance as they tweak things. Also, anyone making custom datapacks/etc. should take that into consideration as well.
I should also make a slight update to my post:
Unfortunately it seems that this new snapshot is bugged. I haven't tested actual full custom dimensions, but at least the overworld ignores setting the max height over 320, and crashes with min_y beyond -64. So, for 21w_06a at least, it looks like larger worlds are a no go. So, you can either have really big worlds ( by using one of the previous snapshots ), or new cave generation/etc. Not both.
Hopefully they fix that up to allow much higher worlds again, and ideally they add a simple world setting in game to change the height / Min_y on creation.
If caves can have their own water levels it makes me confident real water falls could be a thing when they work on the mountains.
I absolutely love the look of the new caves with the last snapshot and I really can't wait to get in there and start building some nice cave dwellings and dwarf halls. I scrolled through the whole thread and a couple predictions have come true: Stronghold generation from what I've seen is pretty messed up. There's definitely gonna have to be an overhaul to get that all sorted out. I really wonder if they aren't gonna revamp and move strongholds to the deep dark and let the wardens be the single guardian of the portal. I know Mojang said they weren't end-related, but that kinda counts, right? Also actually loving the way mineshafts look now. So many of them have bridges that just pass from one wall of the cave, over a giant chasm, and then right back. It's gonna be so much fun exploring those now.
As for my other thoughts: I'm glad the glowsquid won, it was one I originally voted for. I figured it was gonna drop some kind of glowing ink. It's a squid after all so that was pretty much a given. I really didn't want another hostile, I feel like the game is just littered with those at this point. And the moobloom sounded pretty boring. I just hope that the glow sac gets fully implemented as a dye in the future, making it possible to use with anything that can be dyed like armor, sheep, wool, and maybe glass and concrete and all that. Having a structure that you can see in the dark would be so cool.
And finally, I'm with a lot of people when it comes to archeology. I don't mind it overall but don't really feel like the purpose of making clay pots is worth it. The brush texture will also really need to be changed. If it looked a little more basic I might be a little more inclined to it
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Curse PremiumThose changes were mostly remnants of when Mojang was toying with the world height to find a balance as to what would work with average pc hardware and current gen consoles. They are either no longer needed or they may bring it back. Bear in mind you originally had to mod the game to have those fluid numbers even work.
Praise be to Spode.
Ilmango made a video a few months ago about expanding the space the nether takes up by having the nether ceiling at y 256
Since the build height is larger, having a 256 high open nether and a 128 nether roof seems like the perfect compromise
I hope glow squids will be able to spawn in water caves, they'd look so cool.
I honestly believe the new update can do #alot better just saying.
A taller Nether would be even easier to get lost in. Thank goodness for lodestones!
A lot of people are crazy for this update. And understandably so. But i think the gravity of this update is way bigger than people even understand.
A lot of people seem to think Minecraft is some perfectly designed game. And don't get me wrong- the PSYCHOLOGY behind it is perfect. But in Beta 1.8 we found out Notch's vision of Minecraft as an RPG never really died, but given his leave around the 1.4-1.5 era, his vision was left incomplete.
As a result, i feel like Minecraft has been left with two clashing philosophies- a community-created one where the game is driven by a need to grow and improve and constantly be making more stuff to feel accomplished, and a more literal, rigid, even numbers-based sense of progression, driven by clear goals almost defined by the game itself, leaving both ideas feeling almost incomplete.
And while i think the former philosophy is incredibly respectable, it'd be hard to truly get down without reverting to Pre- Beta 1.8 mechanics, without the Hunger and Experience. It's not that it HAS to be that way, it's just that a lot of the mechanics are built around the idea of exploring and fighting for progression, like EXP and drops and stuff- something that's only given a bandaid solution by farms and grinders. The finite-ness of Passive mobs for food left people needing to explore and find more to have food, but people chose to start breeding animals. EXP is needed to keep gear at decent durability often, and to make better gear, encouraging exploration, but people have chosen to replace that with EXP farms.
And while i think there is some kind of beauty in exploiting the game's mechanics to solve that issue your own way, i don't feel like, back when these concepts were introduced, that this was the intent. You were meant to explore and fight for progression because Notch's vision of the game as an RPG never really died.
There might be other ways of solving this issue- but how i see it, Mojang is beginning to lean into that more rules-based sense of progression. With the way Ore generation has changed in 21w07, and the tougher layer with Grimstone hiding some of the most valuable things, it creates a clear idea of where to go and when- find diamonds at the bottom of stone, go to the Nether, find Netherite, upgrade to Netherite, and move down into the Grimstone layer, where you'll likely find the Deep Dark towards the bottom, hiding the Warden and whatever valuables lie in the depths of the world. Perhaps even Strongholds will appear exclusively/more frequently down there.
At the same time though, it doesn't make one area obsolete immediately. Iron, Gold, Redstone and Copper still appear far more frequently in other areas, and if you want Emeralds, now, Mining for them in Mountains is going to be a much more efficient way to find them, meaning it isn't just left to the RNG of exploiting villager trading.
And on top of that, just consider the scale of the mountains and caves. It's never going to get tiring to look at and explore, in the way Pre- Beta 1.8's mountains/hills wouldn't because of how strange and quirky the generation could be. It really is going to give the world itself way more impact than it's had in almost a decade, to me. Sure some neat biomes exist, but with miles and miles of flat, identical land in between- even some of the cooler, special biomes feel uninspired and unimportant, they lack scale, their entire draw is their rarity, not their awe- aside from MAYBE the shattered savannahs.
We're now finally reaching a point where there is genuine satisfaction to be had in exploring and progressing linearly, whereas before we were stuck with a flat world designed merely as a canvas, with caves and ore generation where nothing really changed because it was a means to an end, instead of that journey being the ends itself, and it hasn't come at an expense to the rest of the game and the philosophy of building and expanding yourself because there is always a correct, efficient way to do things in the sake of making building and growing less tedious if that's how you wish to play.
I've been under the assumption Minecraft is undergoing a renaissance since 1.13, but- if you'll excuse the pun- this update is really where it's hitting its peak. And you have no idea how excited i am to see what comes next.
New ore texture is so weird and unnecessary. Grimstone texture doesn't tile correctly and say good bye to the good old meta of Y level 13.
New blocks are cool but I don't think that's a good indication for a good snapshot.
Just my opinion.
I presume you're thinking of diamond mining?
Y=13 was and is too high!
The top few layers of the diamond range have less ore (since there are no veins higher up that can protrude into them.)
Y=10 was much better, borderline too high but right at the top of the lava layer.
As of snapshot 21w06a you should still mine for diamonds at around Y=4 to Y=10 because, like netherite, there are now two groups of diamond veins, one vein per chunk attempts to spawn from Y=0 to Y=15 and a second vein per chunk attempts to spawn from Y=-63 to Y=15.
And there's much less lava underground and no pronounced layer for lava pools so no reason not to mine where the most diamonds are.
I didn't like the "new" textures that were added way back in 1.14 so I'm using the included Programmer Art texture pack so I haven't actually seen the 1.17 textures except for the new blocks.
Just testing.
Its alright I guess. I kinda wish another new ore would be added because diamond is gonna be not so hard to find but they've confirmed that isn't happening. I hate to hate change but the world being lowered below 0 makes things like strip mining irrelevant. Unfortunate but I guess its gotta happen.
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Curse PremiumStrip mining is the most boring thing in Minecraft and anything that makes caving better than shafting is good in my book. However I do find it odd that 1.16 did the exact opposite. 1.16 added ancient debris which is mostly found encased in netherack. It encourages shaft mining. Once you understand ancient debris and the best method to get it it goes from boring to even more boring. You look at 1.17 and the purposed new ore distribution system and you see that levels the playing field for both methods. If you want to shaft there is now optimal layers for each ore, but caving will grant a higher variety or yield even more ore than a shaft would since the large caves cover so much surface area for exposed ores. Both have their advantages. Something they could do to the Nether to at least give an alternative method to get ancient debris would be to have exposed debris occur within the basalt delta biome which currently has nothing in it to warrant its treacherous terrain. Perhaps make it generate in a way that would be able to compete with shafting while not making too common to make shafting pointless. This would mimic 1.17 in how caving is no longer just worse than shaft mining.
Praise be to Spode.
I think ancient debris are for those endgame player which kind of explains why the monotonous way of obtaining it. It gates midgame player from just obtaining it since it needs a lot of resource to obtain ancient debris in an efficient way (i.e either TnT or bed bombing). There's also the danger of occasional lava if you use the traditional strip mining method although another threat to spice up ancient debris gathering is welcome.