Bungee somehow manages this. Beyond that, "Parity" is a goal for Bedrock and Java Edition to behave and appear the same. I would presume they would have the same block and entity list at that point. Don't think just in terms of "how is this today" but *long term*. Thus, it would be *possible*, but the issues of stability in the game design, not to mention contracts with Nintendo and so on or various legal hazards would be significantly more a roadblock than anything Bungee somehow manages to do to support different client and server versions of Minecraft.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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When you had the fire-breathing ender dragons update, it became clear that the original version was going to stay separate.
However, I always suspected that they would stay separate since you can make your own skins and the fact that there are so many client-side mods available to the Java version. Client-side mods don't port; you're never going to play modded classics like the Aether, the Twilight Forest, Agrarian Skies, or Tekkit on your console because the mods would have to be recoded, which isn't going to happen both because Microsoft doesn't want their proprietary code to be susceptible to hacking and because the modding community is entirely voluntary. Mod authors have no obligation to write their code all over again in a different language on top of a different framework just for you, and Microsoft is under no obligation to share its code, especially when there's already a semi-open-source version available.
I mean, why do you think they're flirting with the idea of a "community version" of Minecraft? The vast majority of Minecraft Java's content was created by the players. That includes not just mods, but also readily portable save files/maps, re-textures, server management tools, graphic & audio overhauls, skins, development API suites, command-block chains, all created voluntarily and at no cost to the user or the creator.
Microsoft official will not put nearly as much work into the game as the players did because the sheer volume of content is far too much for them to provide without hiking the prices way up. The Java version may not be the one selling right now, but it has a treasure trove of community-made content that Microsoft just can't support.
1) You can make your own skins and use them on the Bedrock platform.
2) You can make your own client-side command blocks and changes to .JSON files and such.
3) You can make your own maps. The creators that charge for maps in Marketplace are, in fact, using Minecraft Java Edition tools and porting those over to the Bedrock edition, then doing the finishing tweaks. But nothing prevents you from doing the same and distributing those.
What the Bedrock edition does NOT do is make it simple and obvious this is even a possibility. This information should be widely discussed and promoted, and people should be encouraged to develop their own custom content for Bedrock Editions without worrying about Marketplace mechanics. It can be done.
But back to "no cross-play", the fact you *CAN* exchange some things such as skins and resource packs, and convert maps should be promoted, and that would be a clear signal to Mojang that Minecraft content is *still* community driven, even on the Bedrock platform. I don't think it would change Microsoft's policy on cross-platform, but it will keep the Minecraft community in the loop as part of the design process.
Minecraft Java Edition will never get cross-platform play for one very simple reason, there is absolutely no benefit to Microsoft.
On the other hand, there is a great benefit for MS if we all switch to the Win10 version, because then they could kill off Java Edition and all of its free content. Why do you think they are giving Java Edition players a free copy of Win10 Minecraft? They want us to voluntarily switch so that there will be less drama when they do eventually kill it off. Java Edition is safe for the immediate future, but it is living on borrowed time.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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This is quite the topic these days... Minecraft: Java Edition, "Will it die?" Heh. I just sit back and watch these crazy opinions pop out. But, I decided to at least reply with a good note. There will be an answer. From Microsoft. Eventually..
There was a topic about flash dying once, but It still exists for certain reasons. I'm sure MC Java has a reason for existing still. [It's obvious, or, maybe it's not.]
Java has this technique, embrace, extend, & extinguish. They are doing this here. They are making pocket edition, console, etc. bigger, they did this on the pc, now they extended, dlc, etc, now they will extinguish (discontinue) Java edition, thats why the renamed it Java edition. Microsoft doesn't like Java a whole lot as far as I know.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
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Developer, server management, system admin. You want it, I do it!
Excellent. Did you miss the part about Sun and Microsoft settling the lawsuit over Java? And why would Microsoft care about the specifics of the platform (Java, in this case) when they own the IP and it sells? Mojang will... what, sue Microsoft for selling more bedrock edition units than Minecraft JE sales?
Sorry, it is far easier to believe Minecraft JE has far too much baggage as it currently stands for cross play than nefarious plans by the Evil Microsoft Empire.
Whilst Microsoft handled Banjo and Kazooie and other things badly, their previous scummy business tactics aren't necessarily solid proof that Microsoft intends to do it again.
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My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
Whilst Microsoft handled Banjo and Kazooie and other things badly, their previous scummy business tactics aren't necessarily solid proof that Microsoft intends to do it again.
True, but I just have a feeling, only time can tell.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Developer, server management, system admin. You want it, I do it!
True, but I just have a feeling, only time can tell.
"A feeling" is exactly what FoxTails had.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
As I said before, basically booting Java Edition in favor of the "M$" editions will cost them way more than it worth at this point in time.
Will it hit the fans? Yes every single game always and WILL hit the fan. It just WHEN they do. But I highly doubt it will be M$ just cutting the cord while it steaming hot.
The cross isn't happening because M$ just looking to cash in MC while they can. If that doesn't means shutting down Java Edition it means putting it on other platforms and using Java Edition as a loss leader.
"I play 1.8 Forever, have no intention of using the Marketplace ever, and I still want to have a say in having Microsoft always support Java only!"
Uhm... that's not how life works. Since the OP is "No Crossplay for Java", I'm going to stick with "Java has WAY too much "Forge, LiteLoader, Optifine" mod baggage, Redstone quirk baggage, and community cultural "Micro$oft is Da Ebil!" baggage, not to mention "much easier to decompile and hack a Java client than a C++ client" baggage.
None of the "Microsoft is just putting the screws to us Java players/ making a cash grab" noise stacks up with me compared to all the OTHER baggage mentioned. I suppose it's possible once Bedrock Edition and Java Edition finally meet parity. But I'm pretty comfortable stating that people who refuse to participate in the process with their wallet will have pretty much the same say in the matter as they ever did: about nothing.
Meanwhile, Marketplace is turning cash. That funds further development along that line. Since that is how business and life in general actually works, I don't have a problem with that. Want to fix the Java problem? Figure out a way to turn it into ongoing cash for the people who actually produce the work on it.
I agree with most of what Romac just said. Except "Bedrock Edition" and Java Edition will never meet parity, because Microsoft has no incentive to do so. They simply can't impose the level of control they need on Java Edition.
Microsoft paid 2.4 BILLION dollars for Minecraft. Most people can't truly comprehend how much money that is. Here is some perspective on how much money a billion dollars is. If you had just one billion dollars, with no interest or other income, just one billion dollars ($1,000,000,000.00), you could spend a thousand dollars an hour for a hundred years, and you'd still have more than 123 million left. That's $24,000 a day for an entire century, and you'd still be stupid rich.
In order to get a good return on their investment, Microsoft will have to monetise every aspect of Minecraft so that it generates tens of thousands of dollars per hour of income. They simply can't afford to keep Java Edition around with all its free content.
But they also don't want to upset the core Minecraft community that made it the success it is today, so they will play nice for a time, while they try to entice us Java players over to other versions, and when enough of us have switched, or their shareholders start demanding more of a return from the Minecraft investment, it will be the end of the line for Java Minecraft.
So no, we won't get cross-platform play. Microsoft needs us to switch to another platform they have more control over.
It's cool we disagree, but I think the disagreement is more on "priority of evil intent". The question on how "evil" Microsoft is merits its own thread. And you may be right long term.
Short term? Minecraft JE code has lots of "ugly" that makes it unfit for "Better Together". If that is to change, JE users will need to explore how to make BE do the things that make JE "special". How do we make content that works on all editions? How do we keep JE sales hot and relevant?
Many JE players seem to lead the conversation with, "I won't touch 1.9+, and let me tell you what Bedrock and Java should be doing." That conversation is definitely a non-starter for having JE integrated with "Better Together."
Instead of looking at the discontinuation of Java Edition as a dystopian future, why don't we look at some of the more positive possible outcomes? (For your information, I have used the Java Edition for 99% of my Minecraft experience, and a lot of the time with mods, so I'm not making this whilst being biased towards the Win10 Edition or Console Editions.)
If the C version of Minecraft gets ported to Linux and Mac, and we're still allowed to download our own free resource packs, maps and skins, as well as still being able to host realms, then the Vanilla experience that Java Edition provides has already been put in the C Edition. (Plus the extra feature of being able to play the game with phones and consoles, and the possibility of code improvement.)
As for mods, obviously the same mods that worked in Java Edition won't work in the C Edition. But, the thing is: mods never worked between versions anyway. You couldn't make a mod for both 1.7.10 and 1.8, because of huge rendering engine changes and such.
If Minecraft gets a modding API in Lua, Python or another non-compliling language, that means it will be easy for new coders to port mods over or make new ones. Sure, we'll probably lose functionality, but Microsoft can't really develop an API to please everyone. (Of course, it's also possible a Mojang employee will repeat history by making a similar mod API like Forge, so that we can edit Minecraft internals and such.)
A big fear here is that we won't be able to play the old Java versions, but this all depends on what Mojang has in mind for the old Java version. They could open-source it, but even if they don't, you'll still have the old .jar for your launcher, and it should work just fine unless Microsoft wants to send an update to all Java launchers that opens an intrusive window saying: "GET THE C EDITION NOW!". In which case, you just have to back up your current launcher file and turn off your internet connection every time you want to play the game in the future. Annoying, but this is what you can do if you're desperate.
Mojangcrosoft, now with the Java Edition out of it's way, can commit it's full efforts on the edition meant for all versions, which means that more time and work can go into the game.
If the Java Edition is discontinued, I doubt it will happen exactly like this, but we can hope for the best, and be optimistic. In the end, Microsoft is just a company after money, and it's hard to make money off of fans that already paid for the game. (Which is why the Marketplace exists.) So we're just along for the ride, and Microsoft can do whatever they see fit with our game. But the game is going to end one way or another, whether it lasts to the end of civilization or a company leads it in a downward spiral. At least we can be happy right now, because it's better than worrying about the game's future that we can't control. (Because really, we can't control it. Unless someone here can become CEO of Microsoft, this thread won't really affect the fate of the game.)
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
I love this post! I do see "Data Packs" as the "official" way to handle modding MC. I believe the changes are to make the packs portable between editions. The way to steer toward cross-platform play is to have dialog and cross-platform content, and I hope discussions such as in this thread get us in that direction.
It's cool we disagree, but I think the disagreement is more on "priority of evil intent". The question on how "evil" Microsoft is merits its own thread. And you may be right long term.
It has nothing to do with being evil. Microsoft is a business, and they have made a huge investment in a game that has to pay off for them and their shareholders. That means they need to turn Minecraft into a cash cow, and that means getting people to pay for everything... eventually.
Java Edition is no longer "Minecraft" as per the announcement.
Bungee somehow manages this. Beyond that, "Parity" is a goal for Bedrock and Java Edition to behave and appear the same. I would presume they would have the same block and entity list at that point. Don't think just in terms of "how is this today" but *long term*. Thus, it would be *possible*, but the issues of stability in the game design, not to mention contracts with Nintendo and so on or various legal hazards would be significantly more a roadblock than anything Bungee somehow manages to do to support different client and server versions of Minecraft.
When you had the fire-breathing ender dragons update, it became clear that the original version was going to stay separate.
However, I always suspected that they would stay separate since you can make your own skins and the fact that there are so many client-side mods available to the Java version. Client-side mods don't port; you're never going to play modded classics like the Aether, the Twilight Forest, Agrarian Skies, or Tekkit on your console because the mods would have to be recoded, which isn't going to happen both because Microsoft doesn't want their proprietary code to be susceptible to hacking and because the modding community is entirely voluntary. Mod authors have no obligation to write their code all over again in a different language on top of a different framework just for you, and Microsoft is under no obligation to share its code, especially when there's already a semi-open-source version available.
I mean, why do you think they're flirting with the idea of a "community version" of Minecraft? The vast majority of Minecraft Java's content was created by the players. That includes not just mods, but also readily portable save files/maps, re-textures, server management tools, graphic & audio overhauls, skins, development API suites, command-block chains, all created voluntarily and at no cost to the user or the creator.
Microsoft official will not put nearly as much work into the game as the players did because the sheer volume of content is far too much for them to provide without hiking the prices way up. The Java version may not be the one selling right now, but it has a treasure trove of community-made content that Microsoft just can't support.
1) You can make your own skins and use them on the Bedrock platform.
2) You can make your own client-side command blocks and changes to .JSON files and such.
3) You can make your own maps. The creators that charge for maps in Marketplace are, in fact, using Minecraft Java Edition tools and porting those over to the Bedrock edition, then doing the finishing tweaks. But nothing prevents you from doing the same and distributing those.
What the Bedrock edition does NOT do is make it simple and obvious this is even a possibility. This information should be widely discussed and promoted, and people should be encouraged to develop their own custom content for Bedrock Editions without worrying about Marketplace mechanics. It can be done.
But back to "no cross-play", the fact you *CAN* exchange some things such as skins and resource packs, and convert maps should be promoted, and that would be a clear signal to Mojang that Minecraft content is *still* community driven, even on the Bedrock platform. I don't think it would change Microsoft's policy on cross-platform, but it will keep the Minecraft community in the loop as part of the design process.
Minecraft Java Edition will never get cross-platform play for one very simple reason, there is absolutely no benefit to Microsoft.
On the other hand, there is a great benefit for MS if we all switch to the Win10 version, because then they could kill off Java Edition and all of its free content. Why do you think they are giving Java Edition players a free copy of Win10 Minecraft? They want us to voluntarily switch so that there will be less drama when they do eventually kill it off. Java Edition is safe for the immediate future, but it is living on borrowed time.
This is quite the topic these days... Minecraft: Java Edition, "Will it die?" Heh. I just sit back and watch these crazy opinions pop out. But, I decided to at least reply with a good note. There will be an answer. From Microsoft. Eventually..
There was a topic about flash dying once, but It still exists for certain reasons. I'm sure MC Java has a reason for existing still. [It's obvious, or, maybe it's not.]
Java has this technique, embrace, extend, & extinguish. They are doing this here. They are making pocket edition, console, etc. bigger, they did this on the pc, now they extended, dlc, etc, now they will extinguish (discontinue) Java edition, thats why the renamed it Java edition. Microsoft doesn't like Java a whole lot as far as I know.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
Developer, server management, system admin. You want it, I do it!
Heh. Wikipedia as a credible source, rather than direct links to actual quotes.
The cool thing with Java is that the moment it is abandoned, Microsoft loses any hope of control over the IP and the community using it.
https://archive.is/20050419194550/http://reactor-core.org/in-microsoft-we-trust.html
And
https://www.cnet.com/news/sun-microsoft-settle-java-suit/
Developer, server management, system admin. You want it, I do it!
Almost did that, I do not take such big risks as to possibly cause another argument over those sources.
Developer, server management, system admin. You want it, I do it!
Excellent. Did you miss the part about Sun and Microsoft settling the lawsuit over Java? And why would Microsoft care about the specifics of the platform (Java, in this case) when they own the IP and it sells? Mojang will... what, sue Microsoft for selling more bedrock edition units than Minecraft JE sales?
Sorry, it is far easier to believe Minecraft JE has far too much baggage as it currently stands for cross play than nefarious plans by the Evil Microsoft Empire.
Whilst Microsoft handled Banjo and Kazooie and other things badly, their previous scummy business tactics aren't necessarily solid proof that Microsoft intends to do it again.
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
True, but I just have a feeling, only time can tell.
Developer, server management, system admin. You want it, I do it!
"A feeling" is exactly what FoxTails had.
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
As I said before, basically booting Java Edition in favor of the "M$" editions will cost them way more than it worth at this point in time.
Will it hit the fans? Yes every single game always and WILL hit the fan. It just WHEN they do. But I highly doubt it will be M$ just cutting the cord while it steaming hot.
The cross isn't happening because M$ just looking to cash in MC while they can. If that doesn't means shutting down Java Edition it means putting it on other platforms and using Java Edition as a loss leader.
"I play 1.8 Forever, have no intention of using the Marketplace ever, and I still want to have a say in having Microsoft always support Java only!"
Uhm... that's not how life works. Since the OP is "No Crossplay for Java", I'm going to stick with "Java has WAY too much "Forge, LiteLoader, Optifine" mod baggage, Redstone quirk baggage, and community cultural "Micro$oft is Da Ebil!" baggage, not to mention "much easier to decompile and hack a Java client than a C++ client" baggage.
None of the "Microsoft is just putting the screws to us Java players/ making a cash grab" noise stacks up with me compared to all the OTHER baggage mentioned. I suppose it's possible once Bedrock Edition and Java Edition finally meet parity. But I'm pretty comfortable stating that people who refuse to participate in the process with their wallet will have pretty much the same say in the matter as they ever did: about nothing.
Meanwhile, Marketplace is turning cash. That funds further development along that line. Since that is how business and life in general actually works, I don't have a problem with that. Want to fix the Java problem? Figure out a way to turn it into ongoing cash for the people who actually produce the work on it.
I agree with most of what Romac just said. Except "Bedrock Edition" and Java Edition will never meet parity, because Microsoft has no incentive to do so. They simply can't impose the level of control they need on Java Edition.
Microsoft paid 2.4 BILLION dollars for Minecraft. Most people can't truly comprehend how much money that is. Here is some perspective on how much money a billion dollars is. If you had just one billion dollars, with no interest or other income, just one billion dollars ($1,000,000,000.00), you could spend a thousand dollars an hour for a hundred years, and you'd still have more than 123 million left. That's $24,000 a day for an entire century, and you'd still be stupid rich.
In order to get a good return on their investment, Microsoft will have to monetise every aspect of Minecraft so that it generates tens of thousands of dollars per hour of income. They simply can't afford to keep Java Edition around with all its free content.
But they also don't want to upset the core Minecraft community that made it the success it is today, so they will play nice for a time, while they try to entice us Java players over to other versions, and when enough of us have switched, or their shareholders start demanding more of a return from the Minecraft investment, it will be the end of the line for Java Minecraft.
So no, we won't get cross-platform play. Microsoft needs us to switch to another platform they have more control over.
It's cool we disagree, but I think the disagreement is more on "priority of evil intent". The question on how "evil" Microsoft is merits its own thread. And you may be right long term.
Short term? Minecraft JE code has lots of "ugly" that makes it unfit for "Better Together". If that is to change, JE users will need to explore how to make BE do the things that make JE "special". How do we make content that works on all editions? How do we keep JE sales hot and relevant?
Many JE players seem to lead the conversation with, "I won't touch 1.9+, and let me tell you what Bedrock and Java should be doing." That conversation is definitely a non-starter for having JE integrated with "Better Together."
Instead of looking at the discontinuation of Java Edition as a dystopian future, why don't we look at some of the more positive possible outcomes? (For your information, I have used the Java Edition for 99% of my Minecraft experience, and a lot of the time with mods, so I'm not making this whilst being biased towards the Win10 Edition or Console Editions.)
If the C version of Minecraft gets ported to Linux and Mac, and we're still allowed to download our own free resource packs, maps and skins, as well as still being able to host realms, then the Vanilla experience that Java Edition provides has already been put in the C Edition. (Plus the extra feature of being able to play the game with phones and consoles, and the possibility of code improvement.)
As for mods, obviously the same mods that worked in Java Edition won't work in the C Edition. But, the thing is: mods never worked between versions anyway. You couldn't make a mod for both 1.7.10 and 1.8, because of huge rendering engine changes and such.
If Minecraft gets a modding API in Lua, Python or another non-compliling language, that means it will be easy for new coders to port mods over or make new ones. Sure, we'll probably lose functionality, but Microsoft can't really develop an API to please everyone. (Of course, it's also possible a Mojang employee will repeat history by making a similar mod API like Forge, so that we can edit Minecraft internals and such.)
A big fear here is that we won't be able to play the old Java versions, but this all depends on what Mojang has in mind for the old Java version. They could open-source it, but even if they don't, you'll still have the old .jar for your launcher, and it should work just fine unless Microsoft wants to send an update to all Java launchers that opens an intrusive window saying: "GET THE C EDITION NOW!". In which case, you just have to back up your current launcher file and turn off your internet connection every time you want to play the game in the future. Annoying, but this is what you can do if you're desperate.
Mojangcrosoft, now with the Java Edition out of it's way, can commit it's full efforts on the edition meant for all versions, which means that more time and work can go into the game.
If the Java Edition is discontinued, I doubt it will happen exactly like this, but we can hope for the best, and be optimistic. In the end, Microsoft is just a company after money, and it's hard to make money off of fans that already paid for the game. (Which is why the Marketplace exists.) So we're just along for the ride, and Microsoft can do whatever they see fit with our game. But the game is going to end one way or another, whether it lasts to the end of civilization or a company leads it in a downward spiral. At least we can be happy right now, because it's better than worrying about the game's future that we can't control. (Because really, we can't control it. Unless someone here can become CEO of Microsoft, this thread won't really affect the fate of the game.)
And hey, even if Microsoft ruins Minecraft, we still have clones to try and revive the game.
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
I love this post! I do see "Data Packs" as the "official" way to handle modding MC. I believe the changes are to make the packs portable between editions. The way to steer toward cross-platform play is to have dialog and cross-platform content, and I hope discussions such as in this thread get us in that direction.
It has nothing to do with being evil. Microsoft is a business, and they have made a huge investment in a game that has to pay off for them and their shareholders. That means they need to turn Minecraft into a cash cow, and that means getting people to pay for everything... eventually.
Java Edition is no longer "Minecraft" as per the announcement.