Why didn't Java get cross-play? Now before you guys go down to the comments and go:
But SHArk ThAt is IMposSibel!!*!
Ok you probably weren't going to say that but you get the point. But here is two things
1) They done it with Scrolls (never played it but is says on google play sooo yeah)
2) and they done it with EVERYTHING ELSE! (Switch, Xbox, PS4, Pocket, I bet even Rasberry Pi if they were still doing that)
And Mojang or someone who can tell Mojang this, I have a way this could work. In multiplayer have a setting that instead of having all the different Java things just switch it to Windows 10 edition or something
Wait can't you get windows 10 for free with Java edition? (if so say in comments thx ) well that was probably there solution but if not-
Making the Java version crossplay would be rather difficult. For one, the Java version is programmed in different ways from the other versions (this isn't necessary a problem at face value...), and secondly the two platforms still have different features. Probably not worth development time trying to resolve headaches, especially since the Jave Edition is the least bought version of the game and isn't what they consider the primary version anymore.
Making the Java version crossplay would be rather difficult. For one, the Java version is the only edition that's coded in a different language from the other versions, and secondly the two platforms still have different features. Probably not worth development time trying to resolve headaches, especially since the Jave Edition is the least bought version of the game and isn't what they consider the primary version anymore.
The language is entirely irrelevant to cross-compatibility; that is like saying that all of the map viewers and editors that use other languages (e.g. MCEdit is based on Python, MCMap C++, Unmined (older version) Delphi) shouldn't be possible but the only thing that matters is how they read the data from the save files on disk or interpret network packets and most modern programming languages and hardware platforms adhere to the same universal standards (e.g IEEE-754 for floating point).
The issue is not just that they have different features but that many blocks, items, entities, etc have very different IDs; for example, when they added new types of fences they made them use new block IDs in Java but metadata in PE (at least the block ID is the same as that for oak fences, but other blocks use totally different IDs). It would be possible to translate IDs and names (the game even does this when you open an older world since they are always changing various data formats; 1.12 can still read numerical item IDs from a world created before 1.8) but missing items and features are still an issue.
Also, consider that even revisions of the same update (such as 1.12, 1.12.1, 1.12.2) can often only connect to a server of the exact same version.
The language is entirely irrelevant to cross-compatibility;.......
Totally agree with this - despite not knowing much about programming etc.. there surely a way of the Java version to either 'emulate' the required/necessary data that the other versions use - or even update it to gradually 'convert' the java version to use the same id data etc that the other versions use
It IS apparently possible to convert JAVA to C# [as this article shows there are 'tools' that can help - although how reliable they are I don't know] so I'd guess there must be ways of converting JAVA to C++.. or even converting the C++ Source code into a JAVA equivalent version - & with a few tweak to change how to reference ID's etc - in theory it could be posible
Java is also "Java". Bedrock in C++ is "in theory" more protected from being hacked than the Java versions. Java has the Minecraft Coder Pack (MCP) updated per version. Note the following tweet from Serge: "When will people learn? When you tell me that you are using MCP to create exploit/grief "clients" for Minecraft, I'll ban you. No exceptions" That's a "Minecraft Java Edition" issue that simply does not exist with Bedrock versions. The Bedrock code is closed, and shall remain that way.
Even without that, the Java code can be easily enough "modded", even if it is obfusticated (made so it can't be easily read and understood by people). AntVenom created a Minecraft World where stone does not spawn, seen below:
AntVenom has other videos where he removed the world size limit and made various other changes directly to the Java code. Bedrock C++? Not gonna happen just like that.
The problem with having the Java client crossplay with Bedrock editions is that it will be far more difficult to ensure Java players are not using LiteLoader + XRay, GammaBright, VoxelMap and other LiteLoader mods, not to mention the many Forge mods. Then you have the issues with Spigot plugin modded servers interacting with the Bedrock clients *and* the exposure of the Bedrock audience to 2b2t, the "jail" servers, many of whom seem to violate the EULA with "pay to level" schemes, and so on. With Minecraft Java and the existing community as it is today, it will be far more difficult to bring our community into the intended Bedrock community. Java does have advantages. It also ABSOLUTELY has serious liabilities. And I think these considerations far outweigh some of the other concerns mentioned earlier in this thread.
Mojang java developers and C++ developers are two separate development teams, with very different code structures and methodologies. To have them work together either the C++ or Java editions would need to be rewritten, most likely the java version as it has the more dirty code. They actually did this with producing the Windows 10 version.
With Microsoft introducing paid microtransactions in the new "Together" scheme, they are looking to monetize the game as much as possible. The Java version has mods, and is still under development. Eventually, Microsoft will stop supporting Mojang in updating the Java edition, but we have a very active modding community that will continue to support MC into the future. Other game with mod authors supporting them for ages do exist and the same will happen with the Java edition of Minecraft.
Yep, Microsoft is demanding that over 20 million people upgrade to Windows 10, or they're no longer relevant. Because they'll make more cash that way, and don't care about the core community that made the game so popular in the first place.
Java is also "Java". Bedrock in C++ is "in theory" more protected from being hacked than the Java versions. Java has the Minecraft Coder Pack (MCP) updated per version. Note the following tweet from Serge: "When will people learn? When you tell me that you are using MCP to create exploit/grief "clients" for Minecraft, I'll ban you. No exceptions" That's a "Minecraft Java Edition" issue that simply does not exist with Bedrock versions. The Bedrock code is closed, and shall remain that way.
Even without that, the Java code can be easily enough "modded", even if it is obfusticated (made so it can't be easily read and understood by people). AntVenom created a Minecraft World where stone does not spawn, seen below:
AntVenom has other videos where he removed the world size limit and made various other changes directly to the Java code. Bedrock C++? Not gonna happen just like that.
The problem with having the Java client crossplay with Bedrock editions is that it will be far more difficult to ensure Java players are not using LiteLoader + XRay, GammaBright, VoxelMap and other LiteLoader mods, not to mention the many Forge mods. Then you have the issues with Spigot plugin modded servers interacting with the Bedrock clients *and* the exposure of the Bedrock audience to 2b2t, the "jail" servers, many of whom seem to violate the EULA with "pay to level" schemes, and so on. With Minecraft Java and the existing community as it is today, it will be far more difficult to bring our community into the intended Bedrock community. Java does have advantages. It also ABSOLUTELY has serious liabilities. And I think these considerations far outweigh some of the other concerns mentioned earlier in this thread.
i think there is hacks for mcpe too and there is some addons like better pvp , and there is xray resource packs
Java is also "Java". Bedrock in C++ is "in theory" more protected from being hacked than the Java versions. Java has the Minecraft Coder Pack (MCP) updated per version. Note the following tweet from Serge: "When will people learn? When you tell me that you are using MCP to create exploit/grief "clients" for Minecraft, I'll ban you. No exceptions" That's a "Minecraft Java Edition" issue that simply does not exist with Bedrock versions. The Bedrock code is closed, and shall remain that way.
Even without that, the Java code can be easily enough "modded", even if it is obfusticated (made so it can't be easily read and understood by people). AntVenom created a Minecraft World where stone does not spawn, seen below:
AntVenom has other videos where he removed the world size limit and made various other changes directly to the Java code. Bedrock C++? Not gonna happen just like that.
The problem with having the Java client crossplay with Bedrock editions is that it will be far more difficult to ensure Java players are not using LiteLoader + XRay, GammaBright, VoxelMap and other LiteLoader mods, not to mention the many Forge mods. Then you have the issues with Spigot plugin modded servers interacting with the Bedrock clients *and* the exposure of the Bedrock audience to 2b2t, the "jail" servers, many of whom seem to violate the EULA with "pay to level" schemes, and so on. With Minecraft Java and the existing community as it is today, it will be far more difficult to bring our community into the intended Bedrock community. Java does have advantages. It also ABSOLUTELY has serious liabilities. And I think these considerations far outweigh some of the other concerns mentioned earlier in this thread.
The whole open closed code thing makes me think of that "trading freedom for security" quote
...Eventually, Microsoft will stop supporting Mojang in updating the Java edition...
Source?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
i think there is hacks for mcpe too and there is some addons like better pvp , and there is xray resource packs
That is not the same as "rename .jar to .zip, do a word search for a string that looks like XXXXX in this file, change these values, rezip and rename to .jar, done."
The whole open closed code thing makes me think of that "trading freedom for security" quote
Welcome to the business world. If you want "ultimate freedom" you can either start your own server or play 2b2t. Minecraft isn't about your personal freedom, it's about getting you to cut checks for entertainment. As "kids" make up a good cut of the market audience, Microsoft and the various businesses involved are to some extent held *liable* in a court of law for the behavior and "freedom" of other players to do "bad things" to one another. There is also the consequence of bad publicity and market refusal to accept personal liability (mom & dad won't buy the game if there isn't some assurance their little darling won't be corrupted by stuff like 2b2t).
I'm confused that anyone should act surprised by this, or feels that life would be any other way. Microsoft isn't about to let your personal "freedom" put a lien on their wallet. And they should *NOT* be expected to do so.
That is not the same as "rename .jar to .zip, do a word search for a string that looks like XXXXX in this file, change these values, rezip and rename to .jar, done."
That doesn't come even close to accurately describing how to make a mod; ever opened a Java class file with a text editor? Just a bunch of nonsense - which must be decompiled into human-readable code, and even then it has to be deobfuscated and fixed up if you want to be able to recompile it (PS: Even Minecraft Java is NOT open source; obfuscation is done for the purpose of making it harder to decompile software - the issue is that Java can easily be decompiled back into reasonably accurate source) - there is a very good reason why virtually all mods require MCP (this includes Forge itself); the only modder that I know of who has gone through all the trouble of deobfuscating the game themselves is the creator of Optifine (I've also done a bit myself but only to make some very basic changes to a single class with a bytecode editor so I can hack 1.7+ to recreate the epic caves that older versions had, which depends on Mojang not changing the class I modify. Of interest, that is what you see in the first two links; after finding the class I can use Java Bytecode Editor to change the 15 and 7 on lines 7 and 18 to 40 and 15 respectively, the same ones used prior to 1.7 - shame on Mojang for not adding customization options for caves when it is that easy to change the size/frequency of cave systems!).
You've basically answered your own question, because Minecraft is run off Java, and Minecraft PE, XBOX etc. are all on C++
It's impossible to have cross-play due to there being two totally different coding languages, that's my theory.
As I said earlier, this is entirely incorrect - let's see, what OS are you running? Windows I presume? Most Web sites use some variant of Linux, which has a very different filesystem from Windows - so how can we send files between computers? Because it is only the way they handle network traffic and interpret the data that matters - just as I can use a program coded in C++ to open a world created in Java:
TheMasterCaver is correct that the programming language does not matter, so long as the software adheres to the protocol. As long as they get data in the expected format and with the correct timings, language is irrelevant.
TheMasterCaver may be correct on how hard it is to deal directly with the Java bytecode. indicates the MCP was used as part of the decompiling process. I admit I am not fully versed in the process, I've not tried it myself. Which is easier, decompiling Minecraft Java using the MCP or decompiling and making the same kinds of changes to the Minecraft Bedrock version? And would the answer to this question be significant towards a reluctance on the part of Mojang to include Java in the Better Together update?
That's not just prediction, that's spreading rumors. Don't do that, because people will take your word for "the ultimate truth of Minecraft's future."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
I predict Microsoft will base their decisions on merging Minecraft Java Edition and Bedrock from a sound business and legal perspective: using JE as a test bed performed by free beta-testers and developed in part by teams they don't have to pay, letting the Java community directly into the Bedrock community in the code presents a legal and contractual mess with non-Microsoft platforms.
As I said earlier, this is entirely incorrect - let's see, what OS are you running? Windows I presume? Most Web sites use some variant of Linux, which has a very different filesystem from Windows - so how can we send files between computers? Because it is only the way they handle network traffic and interpret the data that matters - just as I can use a program coded in C++ to open a world created in Java:
Why didn't Java get cross-play? Now before you guys go down to the comments and go:
But SHArk ThAt is IMposSibel!!*!
Ok you probably weren't going to say that but you get the point. But here is two things
1) They done it with Scrolls (never played it but is says on google play sooo yeah)
2) and they done it with EVERYTHING ELSE! (Switch, Xbox, PS4, Pocket, I bet even Rasberry Pi if they were still doing that)
And Mojang or someone who can tell Mojang this, I have a way this could work. In multiplayer have a setting that instead of having all the different Java things just switch it to Windows 10 edition or something
Wait can't you get windows 10 for free with Java edition? (if so say in comments thx ) well that was probably there solution but if not-
LETS GET MOJANG TO DO IT!
Making the Java version crossplay would be rather difficult. For one, the Java version is programmed in different ways from the other versions (this isn't necessary a problem at face value...), and secondly the two platforms still have different features. Probably not worth development time trying to resolve headaches, especially since the Jave Edition is the least bought version of the game and isn't what they consider the primary version anymore.
Because the Bedrock Editions are coded in C++ while the Java one is coded in well of course java.
The language is entirely irrelevant to cross-compatibility; that is like saying that all of the map viewers and editors that use other languages (e.g. MCEdit is based on Python, MCMap C++, Unmined (older version) Delphi) shouldn't be possible but the only thing that matters is how they read the data from the save files on disk or interpret network packets and most modern programming languages and hardware platforms adhere to the same universal standards (e.g IEEE-754 for floating point).
The issue is not just that they have different features but that many blocks, items, entities, etc have very different IDs; for example, when they added new types of fences they made them use new block IDs in Java but metadata in PE (at least the block ID is the same as that for oak fences, but other blocks use totally different IDs). It would be possible to translate IDs and names (the game even does this when you open an older world since they are always changing various data formats; 1.12 can still read numerical item IDs from a world created before 1.8) but missing items and features are still an issue.
Also, consider that even revisions of the same update (such as 1.12, 1.12.1, 1.12.2) can often only connect to a server of the exact same version.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Totally agree with this - despite not knowing much about programming etc.. there surely a way of the Java version to either 'emulate' the required/necessary data that the other versions use - or even update it to gradually 'convert' the java version to use the same id data etc that the other versions use
It IS apparently possible to convert JAVA to C# [as this article shows there are 'tools' that can help - although how reliable they are I don't know] so I'd guess there must be ways of converting JAVA to C++.. or even converting the C++ Source code into a JAVA equivalent version - & with a few tweak to change how to reference ID's etc - in theory it could be posible
Java is also "Java". Bedrock in C++ is "in theory" more protected from being hacked than the Java versions. Java has the Minecraft Coder Pack (MCP) updated per version. Note the following tweet from Serge: "When will people learn? When you tell me that you are using MCP to create exploit/grief "clients" for Minecraft, I'll ban you. No exceptions" That's a "Minecraft Java Edition" issue that simply does not exist with Bedrock versions. The Bedrock code is closed, and shall remain that way.
Even without that, the Java code can be easily enough "modded", even if it is obfusticated (made so it can't be easily read and understood by people). AntVenom created a Minecraft World where stone does not spawn, seen below:
AntVenom has other videos where he removed the world size limit and made various other changes directly to the Java code. Bedrock C++? Not gonna happen just like that.
The problem with having the Java client crossplay with Bedrock editions is that it will be far more difficult to ensure Java players are not using LiteLoader + XRay, GammaBright, VoxelMap and other LiteLoader mods, not to mention the many Forge mods. Then you have the issues with Spigot plugin modded servers interacting with the Bedrock clients *and* the exposure of the Bedrock audience to 2b2t, the "jail" servers, many of whom seem to violate the EULA with "pay to level" schemes, and so on. With Minecraft Java and the existing community as it is today, it will be far more difficult to bring our community into the intended Bedrock community. Java does have advantages. It also ABSOLUTELY has serious liabilities. And I think these considerations far outweigh some of the other concerns mentioned earlier in this thread.
Mojang java developers and C++ developers are two separate development teams, with very different code structures and methodologies. To have them work together either the C++ or Java editions would need to be rewritten, most likely the java version as it has the more dirty code. They actually did this with producing the Windows 10 version.
With Microsoft introducing paid microtransactions in the new "Together" scheme, they are looking to monetize the game as much as possible. The Java version has mods, and is still under development. Eventually, Microsoft will stop supporting Mojang in updating the Java edition, but we have a very active modding community that will continue to support MC into the future. Other game with mod authors supporting them for ages do exist and the same will happen with the Java edition of Minecraft.
Well said, totally agree...
Herb pretty much sums it up on this subject. Java edition wont get squatsimply cause theres no money in it
i think there is hacks for mcpe too and there is some addons like better pvp , and there is xray resource packs
The whole open closed code thing makes me think of that "trading freedom for security" quote
Why am I here
Source?
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
That is not the same as "rename .jar to .zip, do a word search for a string that looks like XXXXX in this file, change these values, rezip and rename to .jar, done."
Welcome to the business world. If you want "ultimate freedom" you can either start your own server or play 2b2t. Minecraft isn't about your personal freedom, it's about getting you to cut checks for entertainment. As "kids" make up a good cut of the market audience, Microsoft and the various businesses involved are to some extent held *liable* in a court of law for the behavior and "freedom" of other players to do "bad things" to one another. There is also the consequence of bad publicity and market refusal to accept personal liability (mom & dad won't buy the game if there isn't some assurance their little darling won't be corrupted by stuff like 2b2t).
I'm confused that anyone should act surprised by this, or feels that life would be any other way. Microsoft isn't about to let your personal "freedom" put a lien on their wallet. And they should *NOT* be expected to do so.
That doesn't come even close to accurately describing how to make a mod; ever opened a Java class file with a text editor? Just a bunch of nonsense - which must be decompiled into human-readable code, and even then it has to be deobfuscated and fixed up if you want to be able to recompile it (PS: Even Minecraft Java is NOT open source; obfuscation is done for the purpose of making it harder to decompile software - the issue is that Java can easily be decompiled back into reasonably accurate source) - there is a very good reason why virtually all mods require MCP (this includes Forge itself); the only modder that I know of who has gone through all the trouble of deobfuscating the game themselves is the creator of Optifine (I've also done a bit myself but only to make some very basic changes to a single class with a bytecode editor so I can hack 1.7+ to recreate the epic caves that older versions had, which depends on Mojang not changing the class I modify. Of interest, that is what you see in the first two links; after finding the class I can use Java Bytecode Editor to change the 15 and 7 on lines 7 and 18 to 40 and 15 respectively, the same ones used prior to 1.7 - shame on Mojang for not adding customization options for caves when it is that easy to change the size/frequency of cave systems!).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
As I said earlier, this is entirely incorrect - let's see, what OS are you running? Windows I presume? Most Web sites use some variant of Linux, which has a very different filesystem from Windows - so how can we send files between computers? Because it is only the way they handle network traffic and interpret the data that matters - just as I can use a program coded in C++ to open a world created in Java:
https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Programs_and_editors/Mapping (listed languages include C++, C#, C, Perl, Javascript (not the same as Java!), HTML5, Visual Basic, Pascal, Python, and more)
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
TheMasterCaver is correct that the programming language does not matter, so long as the software adheres to the protocol. As long as they get data in the expected format and with the correct timings, language is irrelevant.
TheMasterCaver may be correct on how hard it is to deal directly with the Java bytecode. indicates the MCP was used as part of the decompiling process. I admit I am not fully versed in the process, I've not tried it myself. Which is easier, decompiling Minecraft Java using the MCP or decompiling and making the same kinds of changes to the Minecraft Bedrock version? And would the answer to this question be significant towards a reluctance on the part of Mojang to include Java in the Better Together update?
Prediction.
That's not just prediction, that's spreading rumors. Don't do that, because people will take your word for "the ultimate truth of Minecraft's future."
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
I predict Microsoft will base their decisions on merging Minecraft Java Edition and Bedrock from a sound business and legal perspective: using JE as a test bed performed by free beta-testers and developed in part by teams they don't have to pay, letting the Java community directly into the Bedrock community in the code presents a legal and contractual mess with non-Microsoft platforms.
We'll see which of these predictions pan out.
How would you render all the blocks that are in java but not the c+ versions?