Before I continue, we had no hunger bar for a while, and now we have a hunger. Why isn't that optional?
Totally different type of change. Reducing the damage on an enchanted sword is a legitimate change to make it harder, adding a hunger bar to a brand new game is a legitimate change to make it harder, cool down is a change that only benefits PVPers while making it nearly impossible to defend against 2 endermen at a time or a gang of zombie pigmen, and penalizes a large part of the community for the benefit of the few. It's really not an equitable change.
Totally different type of change. Reducing the damage on an enchanted sword is a legitimate change to make it harder, adding a hunger bar to a brand new game is a legitimate change to make it harder, cool down is a change that only benefits PVPers while making it nearly impossible to defend against 2 endermen at a time or a gang of zombie pigmen, and penalizes a large part of the community for the benefit of the few. It's really not an equitable change.
Well, the same logic regarding making the game harder with the other two works for the cooldown. And this makes PVE better also (I've been playing 1.9 for days now not counting snapshots) forcing the player to focus and take the shot so to speak and...
Bring a shield. This new system relies heavily on shields. The shields last a long time, can look cool with banners attached, and negate attacks entirely when angled correctly. In some cases, they can even negate entirely a creeper explosion.
Pigmen I can sweep to the side even easier than before thanks to new sword properties. But endermen zig zag around and teleport when attacked sometimes avoiding the attack forcing a bar reset, so I see the problem there. That's because you are not properly equipped. Let me explain. Previously, endermen were iron tier mobs. Now, they are diamond tier mobs. Meaning you should have diamond tier to fight them on a reasonable level. Which makes sense if you really think about it. Many players don't go to the diamond tier because the nether and the end would potentially burn up/devour their ultra grindy new gear. Now there's incentive to get to the next tier to even make it to the end.
For the reason they said literally right after that statement: "combat is not what I play Minecraft for, but to build, swatting mobs was a mindless side thing".
That doesn't somehow make 1.8 combat less of a chore. Or if it does, I don't see the train of thought.
Pre 1.9 combat wasn't as much of a chore because it was always a secondary aspect to the game. Or at least could be if one preferred to focus on the other aspects instead (building, mining, etc.). Now, the combat overhaul forces you to deal with it directly with things like the timed attacks, needing to carry a shield in case of skeletons, baby zombies being near impossible to deal with, and all the other things that people have been talking about. It's kind of like when they first implemented hunger. It's a significant enough of a change that you can't just ignore it and continue with your preferred playing style.
Pre 1.9 combat wasn't as much of a chore because it was always a secondary aspect to the game. Or at least could be if one preferred to focus on the other aspects instead (building, mining, etc.). Now, the combat overhaul forces you to deal with it directly with things like the timed attacks, needing to carry a shield in case of skeletons, baby zombies being near impossible to deal with, and all the other things that people have been talking about. It's kind of like when they first implemented hunger. It's a significant enough of a change that you can't just ignore it and continue with your preferred playing style.
A chore is a repetitive action that needs to be done but is not pleasant. The 1.8 vending-machine-mob whack-a-mole falls under this definition for me. 1.9 being more difficult doesn't make it a chore, as far as I'm aware.
Totally different type of change. Reducing the damage on an enchanted sword is a legitimate change to make it harder, adding a hunger bar to a brand new game is a legitimate change to make it harder, cool down is a change that only benefits PVPers while making it nearly impossible to defend against 2 endermen at a time or a gang of zombie pigmen, and penalizes a large part of the community for the benefit of the few.
"Benefit of the few"? Boy it sure is one-sided in here. The combat changes annoy me too, it's gotten me killed many times in normal mode. They've made me angry, but that doesn't mean I want them removed or optional.
I don't see how the hunger is much different? Different because it has more to do with PvP? Sure. But both are very large game changers. A lot of people still hate hunger today, but there's still no good reason to make it optional. "Giving people the choice" isn't always some magical saving grace that fixes everything forever.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
If something is already a chore, then wouldn't making it more difficult only makes it that much more unpleasant?
Just out of curiosity, when you say 1.8 do you mean anything pre-1.9, or specifically 1.8? I ask because I play on 1.7.10 and so I don't know if there are more mundane changes to combat in 1.8 that I may have not experienced myself.
I think you all should try out 1.9.1-pre3, they have made some changes to the combat system. Now the cooldown is just as long as the hurt resistant time, and there is less damage penalty when it's not fully charged.
Well, the same logic regarding making the game harder with the other two works for the cooldown. And this makes PVE better also (I've been playing 1.9 for days now not counting snapshots) forcing the player to focus and take the shot so to speak and...
Bring a shield. This new system relies heavily on shields. The shields last a long time, can look cool with banners attached, and negate attacks entirely when angled correctly. In some cases, they can even negate entirely a creeper explosion.
Pigmen I can sweep to the side even easier than before thanks to new sword properties. But endermen zig zag around and teleport when attacked sometimes avoiding the attack forcing a bar reset, so I see the problem there. That's because you are not properly equipped. Let me explain. Previously, endermen were iron tier mobs. Now, they are diamond tier mobs. Meaning you should have diamond tier to fight them on a reasonable level. Which makes sense if you really think about it. Many players don't go to the diamond tier because the nether and the end would potentially burn up/devour their ultra grindy new gear. Now there's incentive to get to the next tier to even make it to the end.
I've got god gear and I've been killed twice in the end by multi enderman attacks. With one of them you lose about half your health in the fight.
Shields are wonky and cut down on sight and I'd prefer just to have a bow in that slot.
The major point is that all regular mobs including endermen are mindlessly easy to kill en-masse if you do a planned attack. Most you can just sit back and mindlessly kill with a bow and endermen can be killed easily if you have 2 block high ledges to fight from. The real fun of mob fighting used to be a melee sword fight with a mass of mobs and this has been ruined for the benefit of PVPers.
I've got god gear and I've been killed twice in the end by multi enderman attacks. With one of them you lose about half your health in the fight.
You know you're not supposed to attack multiple endermen at once, right? Just pick them out one at a time. If you see both by accident, stand under a 2 block tall structure or utilize water.
Shields are wonky and cut down on sight and I'd prefer just to have a bow in that slot.
That's something you get used to. At least in my case. I was annoyed at first but eventually found it to be pretty cool holding a shield. In all F5 perspectives. And a bow is a trade off. The ranged attack isn't necessarily worth a valuable block negation item. Plus, you can scroll over the shield on your hotbar, block, and then scroll to your sword and swing. Seriously, the shield is like twice as resilient as a sword block was plus the full negation while angled correctly.
The major point is that all regular mobs including endermen are mindlessly easy to kill en-masse if you do a planned attack. Most you can just sit back and mindlessly kill with a bow and endermen can be killed easily if you have 2 block high ledges to fight from. The real fun of mob fighting used to be a melee sword fight with a mass of mobs and this has been ruined for the benefit of PVPers.
And you can still do that, but it's harder as well with more intelligent mob AI. So even the mindless exploits now require more thought and challenge. Plus mobs strafe away from bows, at least skeles do. And no, I found the old PvP to be a mindless boring activity. Mobs got in the way of mining but were not hard to kill. Now they are a part of mining rather than a consequence. And many PvEers like me prefer the new way.
I think you all should try out 1.9.1-pre3, they have made some changes to the combat system. Now the cooldown is just as long as the hurt resistant time, and there is less damage penalty when it's not fully charged.
The sword is better but the axe cool down is still a little too long. Since the armor is nerfed the creepers are too powerful since with full iron armor you don't stand a chance. They have no footsteps and way too short a fuse considering you can't get any distance away to have a chance. Considering it is full iron armor undamaged you should at least come away with 1 1/2-2 hearts. I agree no armor should equate with death but full armor equals death is ridiculous. They still don't allow sword in off hand to function to alleviate the eating problem when using the bow in off hand.
Before I continue, we had no hunger bar for a while, and now we have a hunger. Why isn't that optional?
the hunger bar is largely innoculous because once you have a stack of food it can be ignored, also the hunger bar IS optional, it does nota pply the lower your difficulty goes and it can only kill you on hard
I am finding that dual wield only works for certain combinations, not everything does what its told. Sword and torch or pick and torch works but say torch and block the right left mouse button difference stops working and it places the wrong thing. So not properly worked out IMHO control logic is broken.
The system works very specific. I believe the off-hand takes priority in the right-click before anything else. So if you have a torch in your main hand, and a block in your off-hand, the torch will always take priority unless there's a situation where you can't place the block, then the game will try to register placing the torch instead. The off-hand is mainly for items with a right click while the main hand is for items with a left click. Holding two items with a left click feature will only work for the main hand, and using two items with a right click feature will always prioritize the off-hand.
I only play single player, I play hardcore and up until now, I've played without armor most of the time. Since the changes, the game has become enough of a challenge to actually invest in armor and a shield and to learn to sword properly.
That, in a nutshell, is why the old combat system is such a total joke and why the new one is so much better.
The mobs are also more challenging. I've had to delete a number of games since 1.9 because I'd been quilled too effectively by skeleton archers. And although I haven't been the successful candidate of a baby zombie love, those little buggers give me a reason to panic every time I hear one. One managed to make it into my subterranean farm and I had it harvested by the time I was done rejecting the adoption.
The new combat rules are just a part. It's the overall difficulty that makes night or cave exploring the challenge it used to be. And I have yet to explore the Nether.
Totally different type of change. Reducing the damage on an enchanted sword is a legitimate change to make it harder, adding a hunger bar to a brand new game is a legitimate change to make it harder, cool down is a change that only benefits PVPers while making it nearly impossible to defend against 2 endermen at a time or a gang of zombie pigmen, and penalizes a large part of the community for the benefit of the few. It's really not an equitable change.
Cerroz is referencing how just as many people complained when hunger bars where implimented. Add any game changing thing, and you will have a group of people that don't want change. Cooldown doesn't benefit PVPers, it benefits people who have a bad connection to pvp servers. Has anyone even tried 1.9.1pre-3 snapshot? The cooldown system has been changed quite a bit, it is just as long as mob hurt resistant time. So now as long as you don't spam click you can get the same amount of attacks in as before.
the hunger bar is largely innoculous because once you have a stack of food it can be ignored, also the hunger bar IS optional, it does nota pply the lower your difficulty goes and it can only kill you on hard
My point of focus was things being optional, because people treat making things an option like it's some ultimate solution and that's not always the case. I hate to be one of those people that keep repeating this, but the combat changes were made for universal balance, not for something you can just "shut off". I will admit though I would like some tweaks to the new combat.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Totally different type of change. Reducing the damage on an enchanted sword is a legitimate change to make it harder, adding a hunger bar to a brand new game is a legitimate change to make it harder, cool down is a change that only benefits PVPers while making it nearly impossible to defend against 2 endermen at a time or a gang of zombie pigmen, and penalizes a large part of the community for the benefit of the few. It's really not an equitable change.
Well, the same logic regarding making the game harder with the other two works for the cooldown. And this makes PVE better also (I've been playing 1.9 for days now not counting snapshots) forcing the player to focus and take the shot so to speak and...
Bring a shield. This new system relies heavily on shields. The shields last a long time, can look cool with banners attached, and negate attacks entirely when angled correctly. In some cases, they can even negate entirely a creeper explosion.
Pigmen I can sweep to the side even easier than before thanks to new sword properties. But endermen zig zag around and teleport when attacked sometimes avoiding the attack forcing a bar reset, so I see the problem there. That's because you are not properly equipped. Let me explain. Previously, endermen were iron tier mobs. Now, they are diamond tier mobs. Meaning you should have diamond tier to fight them on a reasonable level. Which makes sense if you really think about it. Many players don't go to the diamond tier because the nether and the end would potentially burn up/devour their ultra grindy new gear. Now there's incentive to get to the next tier to even make it to the end.
That doesn't somehow make 1.8 combat less of a chore. Or if it does, I don't see the train of thought.
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
Pre 1.9 combat wasn't as much of a chore because it was always a secondary aspect to the game. Or at least could be if one preferred to focus on the other aspects instead (building, mining, etc.). Now, the combat overhaul forces you to deal with it directly with things like the timed attacks, needing to carry a shield in case of skeletons, baby zombies being near impossible to deal with, and all the other things that people have been talking about. It's kind of like when they first implemented hunger. It's a significant enough of a change that you can't just ignore it and continue with your preferred playing style.
So many mods, so little time.
A chore is a repetitive action that needs to be done but is not pleasant. The 1.8 vending-machine-mob whack-a-mole falls under this definition for me. 1.9 being more difficult doesn't make it a chore, as far as I'm aware.
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
"Benefit of the few"? Boy it sure is one-sided in here. The combat changes annoy me too, it's gotten me killed many times in normal mode. They've made me angry, but that doesn't mean I want them removed or optional.
I don't see how the hunger is much different? Different because it has more to do with PvP? Sure. But both are very large game changers. A lot of people still hate hunger today, but there's still no good reason to make it optional. "Giving people the choice" isn't always some magical saving grace that fixes everything forever.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
If something is already a chore, then wouldn't making it more difficult only makes it that much more unpleasant?
Just out of curiosity, when you say 1.8 do you mean anything pre-1.9, or specifically 1.8? I ask because I play on 1.7.10 and so I don't know if there are more mundane changes to combat in 1.8 that I may have not experienced myself.
So many mods, so little time.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumI think you all should try out 1.9.1-pre3, they have made some changes to the combat system. Now the cooldown is just as long as the hurt resistant time, and there is less damage penalty when it's not fully charged.
Check out my other mods on MinecraftForum or my old 1.6.4 mods here: http://www.planetminecraft.com/member/beardielover/ Working on updating them to 1.7, once that is done will upload them here.
I've got god gear and I've been killed twice in the end by multi enderman attacks. With one of them you lose about half your health in the fight.
Shields are wonky and cut down on sight and I'd prefer just to have a bow in that slot.
The major point is that all regular mobs including endermen are mindlessly easy to kill en-masse if you do a planned attack. Most you can just sit back and mindlessly kill with a bow and endermen can be killed easily if you have 2 block high ledges to fight from. The real fun of mob fighting used to be a melee sword fight with a mass of mobs and this has been ruined for the benefit of PVPers.
You know you're not supposed to attack multiple endermen at once, right? Just pick them out one at a time. If you see both by accident, stand under a 2 block tall structure or utilize water.
That's something you get used to. At least in my case. I was annoyed at first but eventually found it to be pretty cool holding a shield. In all F5 perspectives. And a bow is a trade off. The ranged attack isn't necessarily worth a valuable block negation item. Plus, you can scroll over the shield on your hotbar, block, and then scroll to your sword and swing. Seriously, the shield is like twice as resilient as a sword block was plus the full negation while angled correctly.
And you can still do that, but it's harder as well with more intelligent mob AI. So even the mindless exploits now require more thought and challenge. Plus mobs strafe away from bows, at least skeles do. And no, I found the old PvP to be a mindless boring activity. Mobs got in the way of mining but were not hard to kill. Now they are a part of mining rather than a consequence. And many PvEers like me prefer the new way.
The sword is better but the axe cool down is still a little too long. Since the armor is nerfed the creepers are too powerful since with full iron armor you don't stand a chance. They have no footsteps and way too short a fuse considering you can't get any distance away to have a chance. Considering it is full iron armor undamaged you should at least come away with 1 1/2-2 hearts. I agree no armor should equate with death but full armor equals death is ridiculous. They still don't allow sword in off hand to function to alleviate the eating problem when using the bow in off hand.
the hunger bar is largely innoculous because once you have a stack of food it can be ignored, also the hunger bar IS optional, it does nota pply the lower your difficulty goes and it can only kill you on hard
The system works very specific. I believe the off-hand takes priority in the right-click before anything else. So if you have a torch in your main hand, and a block in your off-hand, the torch will always take priority unless there's a situation where you can't place the block, then the game will try to register placing the torch instead. The off-hand is mainly for items with a right click while the main hand is for items with a left click. Holding two items with a left click feature will only work for the main hand, and using two items with a right click feature will always prioritize the off-hand.
I guess I'll be the oddball here.
I only play single player, I play hardcore and up until now, I've played without armor most of the time. Since the changes, the game has become enough of a challenge to actually invest in armor and a shield and to learn to sword properly.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumThat, in a nutshell, is why the old combat system is such a total joke and why the new one is so much better.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
The mobs are also more challenging. I've had to delete a number of games since 1.9 because I'd been quilled too effectively by skeleton archers. And although I haven't been the successful candidate of a baby zombie love, those little buggers give me a reason to panic every time I hear one. One managed to make it into my subterranean farm and I had it harvested by the time I was done rejecting the adoption.
The new combat rules are just a part. It's the overall difficulty that makes night or cave exploring the challenge it used to be. And I have yet to explore the Nether.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumCerroz is referencing how just as many people complained when hunger bars where implimented. Add any game changing thing, and you will have a group of people that don't want change. Cooldown doesn't benefit PVPers, it benefits people who have a bad connection to pvp servers. Has anyone even tried 1.9.1pre-3 snapshot? The cooldown system has been changed quite a bit, it is just as long as mob hurt resistant time. So now as long as you don't spam click you can get the same amount of attacks in as before.
Check out my other mods on MinecraftForum or my old 1.6.4 mods here: http://www.planetminecraft.com/member/beardielover/ Working on updating them to 1.7, once that is done will upload them here.
My point of focus was things being optional, because people treat making things an option like it's some ultimate solution and that's not always the case. I hate to be one of those people that keep repeating this, but the combat changes were made for universal balance, not for something you can just "shut off". I will admit though I would like some tweaks to the new combat.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048