It is Mojang's attempt to make PVE a bit harder. Get a shield and everything should be easier. Go into a creative world, set up an arena, spawn mobs, go into survival, and practice a bit, to get a hang of the mechanics.
I agree on this. I was playing 1.9, and honestly it's harder, but more fun!
1. While it may be factual, it's trotted out as proof that the change is insignificant when it is quite the opposite.
2. If this game were a one on one battle I might agree, but for most players battles are 1 on 3-5-10 or more. At this point, what was once a potential sword fight has become a boring target practice from a distance with a bow. I took down about 10 or 12 mobs last night with a bow from a distance and then went in on the final last couple with my sword looking for loot. In the past I would have likely just gone in with the sword and had a fighting chance to take them all. Now I don't even bother because the game won't let me. How has that improved play?
Admittably, there's a good point you have on 2. If there are a bunch of people surrounding you you can't berserker on the bridge them so to speak. Kinda stops that burst of will feeling you get having enough skill to take on multiple players at once.
Thing that I found eerie about it pre-update though was how OP people with the best gear could get on servers having that level of reflex. Killstreaks replenish their health and the battle becomes unwinnable.
Although it does come with drawbacks, this particular change will help a lot at fixing pvp. Before, you could "overzone" an enemy by attacking at maximum range for knockback. The level of mastery didn't really justify taking no damage, however. Plus, the old system made people with better hardware fare better. That was a major issue.
As for 1, it isn't going to make the world of a difference. But it will mean that to do this old abusable spam click zoning strategy now trades off for significanly less power than timed and well aimed hits, tradeoff being that despite the power cut spam click still has a valuable level of knockback.
Final point here is taking on a group of people with sword sweep can help, as it knocks back groups and means that taking on a higher number of people than yourself is still doable.
I'm sorry all I hear is whining that the dark is now dangerous and I can't run around willy nilly like I used to with no regard for darkness. Mining for resources doesn't have to involve caving. Branch mining allows one to mine resources in a very controlled and safe environment.
If you want to have an adult conversation, comment on what I actually said, and not some conveniently re-worded corruption of it.
What I see now is that you will have to light up an area just like making witch farms in order to be able to effectively work around your chosen home site. No worries torch spam is always the answer. Dirt hole start, farm trees without end, and torch spam the landscape just to be able to exercise any creativity in survival. If you like caving now to stand a chance branch mine for days just to have a controlled and safe resource collection so you can be strong enough to go caving. LMAO at just how this benefits any aspect of the game BESIDES PVP.
Each of the posts defending this seem to rely on the person making some really, really limited use case argument. "Run away!" or "don't go out at night." As if it were that simple.
The truth is someone just doing some simple mining for resources can now expect a more significant change of being killed by a surprise attack than before. Likewise, someone wandering at dusk can find a group of mobs suddenly populate in front of them as the light changes, triggering the spawn cycle. Yes, you can be prepared. No, you can't be prepared all the time, and if combat is not balanced, it becomes irritating.
I don't realy see the problems whit mobs in the caves, you can use torches to light up. I have being in caves in 1.9 whit no problems. And just as you know: I play in normal as dificulty.
If you want to have an adult conversation, comment on what I actually said, and not some conveniently re-worded corruption of it.
I quoted what I was commenting on. If you choose to ignore that to get a snide comment in then we're not having an adult conversation. You keep ignoring or discrediting view points regarding how dark = mobs = danger = avoid if unprepared. Also how was my mining comment not relevent to your dangers while mining resources comment? You have options, but instead you insist on whining instead of changing.
Plus, the old system made people with better hardware fare better. That was a major issue.
Final point here is taking on a group of people with sword sweep can help, as it knocks back groups and means that taking on a higher number of people than yourself is still doable.
Isn't that the whole point of obtaining better hardware? Sorry but you of sounding like a [insert name here] supporter with that one. Didn't want to offend a particular group there LOL.
Sword sweep might be beneficial IF IT WAS A CONTROLLABLE ACTION. From what I see the game decides on when to use it. Does it increase depending on the knock back level enchanment?
I quoted what I was commenting on. If you choose to ignore that to get a snide comment in then we're not having an adult conversation. You keep ignoring or discrediting view points regarding how dark = mobs = danger = avoid if unprepared. Also how was my mining comment not relevent to your dangers while mining resources comment? You have options, but instead you insist on whining instead of changing.
No, I said this:
The truth is someone just doing some simple mining for resources can now expect a more significant change of being killed by a surprise attack than before. Likewise, someone wandering at dusk can find a group of mobs suddenly populate in front of them as the light changes, triggering the spawn cycle. Yes, you can be prepared. No, you can't be prepared all the time, and if combat is not balanced, it becomes irritating.
And you wrongly paraphrased it as:
I'm sorry all I hear is whining that the dark is now dangerous and I can't run around willy nilly like I used to with no regard for darkness. Mining for resources doesn't have to involve caving. Branch mining allows one to mine resources in a very controlled and safe environment.
Again, comment on what I actually said, not your carefully skewed, sarcastic version of it, because at this point you are just trolling.
Always a great idea to mess with a uniquely popular product.
Obviously everyone hated 1.8 combat, that's why minecraft sold so poorly.
they need to split the difference on these changes. sharpness 4 iron sword not as powerful as a stone ax? what is that. if you have totally enchanted a weapon, you should be like a god.
first post. happy as hell to be here, nice to meet u
Again, comment on what I actually said, not your carefully skewed, sarcastic version of it, because at this point you are just trolling.
Paraphrasing can also make what someone said easier to understand or more to the point. At any rate it doesn't make it any less relevant. You're just making more excuses to dismiss comments you dislike. Maybe too much truth in them for you? Here I will play your game:
The truth is someone just doing some simple mining for resources can now expect a more significant change of being killed by a surprise attack
than before.
Mining for resources doesn't have to involve caving. Branch mining allows one to mine resources in a very controlled and safe environment.
Likewise, someone wandering at dusk can find a group of mobs suddenly populate in front of them as the light changes, triggering the spawn
cycle.
And this is different from previous versions how? They did that before 1.9 so I don't see your point, other than before you could just disregard it because you were a god who could strike the offending mobs down with impunity and go about your way. Now perhaps you aren't a god and need to realize that the sun is getting near going down and you had best find shelter for the night? Surely you must realize the consequences if you risk staying out until dusk and darkness increases to the point that spawns start happening around you? Thus the crux of your stance is that you don't want to change, you don't want the darkness to hold any true danger. You want to go back to stupid AI's mobs, wearing your higher damage mitigation god armor, and wack-a-mole combat. Right?
Always a great idea to mess with a uniquely popular product.
Obviously everyone hated 1.8 combat, that's why minecraft sold so poorly.
they need to split the difference on these changes. sharpness 4 iron sword not as powerful as a stone ax? what is that. if you have totally enchanted a weapon, you should be like a god.
first post. happy as hell to be here, nice to meet u
Question: Sorry for my lack of knowledge here, but what was different about 1.8 combat vs pre-1.8? Or are you just referring to everything before 1.9?
Oh, and btw stone axes have very long cooldowns which is a huge balancer. Also have shield break abilities but no sword sweeps.
Isn't that the whole point of obtaining better hardware? Sorry but you of sounding like a [insert name here] supporter with that one. Didn't want to offend a particular group there LOL.
Sword sweep might be beneficial IF IT WAS A CONTROLLABLE ACTION. From what I see the game decides on when to use it. Does it increase depending on the knock back level enchanment?
You always sword sweep when moving. So standing still/sneaking = no sword sweep. Everything else = sword sweep.
So yeah, it's 100% controllable.
If by insert name you mean Bernie Sanders then yes lol. (I'm not going to judge you guys on your political beliefs though, don't worry. We're all entitled to our own and I respect that)
Anyways, if you can't afford a god mouse or god keyboard the situation is still out of your favor, but still much more fair.
Posts like this are why I don't peruse the forums very often any more. Seriously people if you don't like a new version of Minecraft so much that it makes it unplayable, JUST ROLL BACK TO A PREVIOUS VERSION! Boom problem solved now shut up and craft some mines.
Telling people to go to an alternative game mode is not the solution. The solution is reverting this idiotic combat system for a game that is a CREATIVE/BUILDING game.
Why would they get rid of all of THEIR hard work in THEIR game for the 1% group of whiners who won't do anything in a sandbox game with RPG elements but build while unprotected.
I think I posted this before (but not sure where), but playing the other day I was confronted with a host of skeletons (5-6 I think), 2 creepers and 2-3 endermen. (It was in a large unlit area of a new structure I was building that didn't have lights installed yet.) This is much different than fighting a small group of one type of mob.
I don't fault people if they see that as a challenge; that's cool for them. It's just not my thing, as I find it distracting.
When building ALWAYS put torches everywhere even if your planning on changing the lighting. It prevents this problem
Paraphrasing can also make what someone said easier to understand or more to the point. At any rate it doesn't make it any less relevant. You're just making more excuses to dismiss comments you dislike. Maybe too much truth in them for you? Here I will play your game:
Mining for resources doesn't have to involve caving. Branch mining allows one to mine resources in a very controlled and safe environment.
I just want to point out how (as I said before) every defense of the new combat system requires people to tell others to change their entire gameplay pattern. "Run away" someone said. "Don't go outside at night unprepared." Now it's "branch mining." So I have to change my entire play behavior to accommodate a single feature related to combat, even the things I do that have nothing to do with combat. That's not right.
And this is different from previous versions how? They did that before 1.9 so I don't see your point, other than before you could just disregard it because you were a god who could strike the offending mobs down with impunity and go about your way. Now perhaps you aren't a god and need to realize that the sun is getting near going down and you had best find shelter for the night? Surely you must realize the consequences if you risk staying out until dusk and darkness increases to the point that spawns start happening around you? Thus the crux of your stance is that you don't want to change, you don't want the darkness to hold any true danger. You want to go back to stupid AI's mobs, wearing your higher damage mitigation god armor, and wack-a-mole combat. Right?
Again, we aren't having an adult conversation.You have to exaggerate your point to make your argument. Now anyone playing Minecraft prior to 1.9 -- that means all the way back to 2011!! -- was "a god who could strike down offending mobs with impunity." Never before had anyone had to "find shelter for the night" -- no, that only happened in 1.9. What????
Prior to 1.9, the "darkness didn't hold any true danger" and everyone had "damage mitigation god armor" and all combat was "wack-a-mole"??? Really? That's news to... well, everyone.
Then you accuse me of "not wanting to change," and yet here I am at 1.9, meaning I have already changed since I first started with MC at version 1.1. If I wasn't open to change, I'd still be at 1.1.
I can see you're an intelligent guy, and most of your other posts are great. But this weirdo tendency, in this thread anyway, to stretch the argument to its breaking point in order to make your point is just odd.
My point was about BALANCE, a word I used lots of time. I was simply saying that the combat changes have impacted the balance of the game. That shouldn't be such a radical position to require this level of irritation and flaming.
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You started playing in 1.1 so you don't necessarily remember mobs in Beta. Back then the only way to regain health was to eat food (which didn't stack), and if you got horded by mobs you might as well be dead because armor was terrible back then. Mobs in 1.9 are no harder then they were in Beta. If anything I like the fact that mobs are more challenging again. So yes people back in those days did technically have to find shelter for the first few minecraft days until you could get decent armor and tools.
Again, we aren't having an adult conversation.You have to exaggerate your point to make your argument. Now anyone playing Minecraft prior to 1.9 -- that means all the way back to 2011!! -- was "a god who could strike down offending mobs with impunity." Never before had anyone had to "find shelter for the night" -- no, that only happened in 1.9. What????
Well, this is the one point I'm commenting on. Old diamond armor fully enchanted did just that. Reduce/mitigate damage to a nearly invisible value. But the thing is, it is very hard to obtain and the final end goal. Now this armor is not intentionally made OP (for fun/liesure as intended), possibly in part for making PVP harder to make power gaps. What I mean is iron armor vs leather for instance.
In essence, armor was that broken in theory, if you could grind it out after playing for months and did everything to do in the world. Now here's the gatcha. If you got a lucky spawn you got to iron level immediately and were zombie proof. Maybe even skeleton proof. Kinda ruined the challenge of the first night. But that's fair game. Spawn is a dice roll. So they made the call to nerf armor and buff mobs why?
Here's my speculation. Multiplayer = Players who are behind aren't outclassed by old players to a rediculous degree. Singleplayer = more challenging and interesting to survive. Survival mode was meant to be surviving the vicious nights and the thrill that comes from it. Not a story mode or anything. Although clearly they are trying to allow it to evolve into that after you become "self-efficient". And at that point I doubt vets will even be challenged by 1.9. Wel, t least more so than before and I personally like that.
Not siding with either of you because I'm late to this conversation and probably lost some valuable context. I'll watch this thread develop regardless.
LOL, I just didn't want to call out any names. Thank you for clarifying how the swipe mechanics worked and luckily my Logitech G105 and G303 are up to the task if I choose to configure them for Minecraft.
I just want to point out how (as I said before) every defense of the new combat system requires people to tell others to change their entire gameplay pattern. "Run away" someone said. "Don't go outside at night unprepared." Now it's "branch mining." So I have to change my entire play behavior to accommodate a single feature related to combat, even the things I do that have nothing to do with combat. That's not right.
They changed a fundamental mechanic in a way that makes it more complex. Of course your play-style has to change, even if only a little bit. It doesn't have to do with right or not right; it's the way things are.
I played 1.9 from the beginning of its snapshots. The only difference between my behavior now and then is that I have to think a little bit more. Once I got used to it (extremely quickly, within twenty minutes), the only deaths at the hands of mobs were things that I could've avoided but made poor decisions about.
I tried playing 1.8 after playing 1.9 after so long, and there was an enormous difference. I became completely bored out of my mind. I was no longer surviving. I was simply the world's pest control service, playing whack-a-mole to farm resources. It wasn't that combat pervaded my every action. I build or mine far more than I fight. It was that the world before 1.9 was nowhere near as immersive because I may as well have been invulnerable. I may as well have been a god.
I agree on this. I was playing 1.9, and honestly it's harder, but more fun!
Admittably, there's a good point you have on 2. If there are a bunch of people surrounding you you can't berserker on the bridge them so to speak. Kinda stops that burst of will feeling you get having enough skill to take on multiple players at once.
Thing that I found eerie about it pre-update though was how OP people with the best gear could get on servers having that level of reflex. Killstreaks replenish their health and the battle becomes unwinnable.
Although it does come with drawbacks, this particular change will help a lot at fixing pvp. Before, you could "overzone" an enemy by attacking at maximum range for knockback. The level of mastery didn't really justify taking no damage, however. Plus, the old system made people with better hardware fare better. That was a major issue.
As for 1, it isn't going to make the world of a difference. But it will mean that to do this old abusable spam click zoning strategy now trades off for significanly less power than timed and well aimed hits, tradeoff being that despite the power cut spam click still has a valuable level of knockback.
Final point here is taking on a group of people with sword sweep can help, as it knocks back groups and means that taking on a higher number of people than yourself is still doable.
If you want to have an adult conversation, comment on what I actually said, and not some conveniently re-worded corruption of it.
What I see now is that you will have to light up an area just like making witch farms in order to be able to effectively work around your chosen home site. No worries torch spam is always the answer. Dirt hole start, farm trees without end, and torch spam the landscape just to be able to exercise any creativity in survival. If you like caving now to stand a chance branch mine for days just to have a controlled and safe resource collection so you can be strong enough to go caving. LMAO at just how this benefits any aspect of the game BESIDES PVP.
I don't realy see the problems whit mobs in the caves, you can use torches to light up. I have being in caves in 1.9 whit no problems. And just as you know: I play in normal as dificulty.
Help the Villagers to get jobs!
How to beat mobs at night:
1. Learn how the mobs behave
2. Use both hands
3. Have at least Iron Armor better
4. Do at least use Iron Sword or better
5. Hide in the bushes to suprise them
6. The mobs don't know whats behind them
I quoted what I was commenting on. If you choose to ignore that to get a snide comment in then we're not having an adult conversation. You keep ignoring or discrediting view points regarding how dark = mobs = danger = avoid if unprepared. Also how was my mining comment not relevent to your dangers while mining resources comment? You have options, but instead you insist on whining instead of changing.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Isn't that the whole point of obtaining better hardware? Sorry but you of sounding like a [insert name here] supporter with that one. Didn't want to offend a particular group there LOL.
Sword sweep might be beneficial IF IT WAS A CONTROLLABLE ACTION. From what I see the game decides on when to use it. Does it increase depending on the knock back level enchanment?
No, I said this:
And you wrongly paraphrased it as:
Again, comment on what I actually said, not your carefully skewed, sarcastic version of it, because at this point you are just trolling.
Always a great idea to mess with a uniquely popular product.
Obviously everyone hated 1.8 combat, that's why minecraft sold so poorly.
they need to split the difference on these changes. sharpness 4 iron sword not as powerful as a stone ax? what is that. if you have totally enchanted a weapon, you should be like a god.
first post. happy as hell to be here, nice to meet u
Paraphrasing can also make what someone said easier to understand or more to the point. At any rate it doesn't make it any less relevant. You're just making more excuses to dismiss comments you dislike. Maybe too much truth in them for you? Here I will play your game:
Mining for resources doesn't have to involve caving. Branch mining allows one to mine resources in a very controlled and safe environment.
And this is different from previous versions how? They did that before 1.9 so I don't see your point, other than before you could just disregard it because you were a god who could strike the offending mobs down with impunity and go about your way. Now perhaps you aren't a god and need to realize that the sun is getting near going down and you had best find shelter for the night? Surely you must realize the consequences if you risk staying out until dusk and darkness increases to the point that spawns start happening around you? Thus the crux of your stance is that you don't want to change, you don't want the darkness to hold any true danger. You want to go back to stupid AI's mobs, wearing your higher damage mitigation god armor, and wack-a-mole combat. Right?
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Question: Sorry for my lack of knowledge here, but what was different about 1.8 combat vs pre-1.8? Or are you just referring to everything before 1.9?
Oh, and btw stone axes have very long cooldowns which is a huge balancer. Also have shield break abilities but no sword sweeps.
You always sword sweep when moving. So standing still/sneaking = no sword sweep. Everything else = sword sweep.
So yeah, it's 100% controllable.
If by insert name you mean Bernie Sanders then yes lol. (I'm not going to judge you guys on your political beliefs though, don't worry. We're all entitled to our own and I respect that)
Anyways, if you can't afford a god mouse or god keyboard the situation is still out of your favor, but still much more fair.
Posts like this are why I don't peruse the forums very often any more. Seriously people if you don't like a new version of Minecraft so much that it makes it unplayable, JUST ROLL BACK TO A PREVIOUS VERSION! Boom problem solved now shut up and craft some mines.
Why would they get rid of all of THEIR hard work in THEIR game for the 1% group of whiners who won't do anything in a sandbox game with RPG elements but build while unprotected.
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When building ALWAYS put torches everywhere even if your planning on changing the lighting. It prevents this problem
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I just want to point out how (as I said before) every defense of the new combat system requires people to tell others to change their entire gameplay pattern. "Run away" someone said. "Don't go outside at night unprepared." Now it's "branch mining." So I have to change my entire play behavior to accommodate a single feature related to combat, even the things I do that have nothing to do with combat. That's not right.
Again, we aren't having an adult conversation.You have to exaggerate your point to make your argument. Now anyone playing Minecraft prior to 1.9 -- that means all the way back to 2011!! -- was "a god who could strike down offending mobs with impunity." Never before had anyone had to "find shelter for the night" -- no, that only happened in 1.9. What????
Prior to 1.9, the "darkness didn't hold any true danger" and everyone had "damage mitigation god armor" and all combat was "wack-a-mole"??? Really? That's news to... well, everyone.
Then you accuse me of "not wanting to change," and yet here I am at 1.9, meaning I have already changed since I first started with MC at version 1.1. If I wasn't open to change, I'd still be at 1.1.
I can see you're an intelligent guy, and most of your other posts are great. But this weirdo tendency, in this thread anyway, to stretch the argument to its breaking point in order to make your point is just odd.
My point was about BALANCE, a word I used lots of time. I was simply saying that the combat changes have impacted the balance of the game. That shouldn't be such a radical position to require this level of irritation and flaming.
You started playing in 1.1 so you don't necessarily remember mobs in Beta. Back then the only way to regain health was to eat food (which didn't stack), and if you got horded by mobs you might as well be dead because armor was terrible back then. Mobs in 1.9 are no harder then they were in Beta. If anything I like the fact that mobs are more challenging again. So yes people back in those days did technically have to find shelter for the first few minecraft days until you could get decent armor and tools.
Well, this is the one point I'm commenting on. Old diamond armor fully enchanted did just that. Reduce/mitigate damage to a nearly invisible value. But the thing is, it is very hard to obtain and the final end goal. Now this armor is not intentionally made OP (for fun/liesure as intended), possibly in part for making PVP harder to make power gaps. What I mean is iron armor vs leather for instance.
In essence, armor was that broken in theory, if you could grind it out after playing for months and did everything to do in the world. Now here's the gatcha. If you got a lucky spawn you got to iron level immediately and were zombie proof. Maybe even skeleton proof. Kinda ruined the challenge of the first night. But that's fair game. Spawn is a dice roll. So they made the call to nerf armor and buff mobs why?
Here's my speculation. Multiplayer = Players who are behind aren't outclassed by old players to a rediculous degree. Singleplayer = more challenging and interesting to survive. Survival mode was meant to be surviving the vicious nights and the thrill that comes from it. Not a story mode or anything. Although clearly they are trying to allow it to evolve into that after you become "self-efficient". And at that point I doubt vets will even be challenged by 1.9. Wel, t least more so than before and I personally like that.
Not siding with either of you because I'm late to this conversation and probably lost some valuable context. I'll watch this thread develop regardless.
thank god
@Hydraheads
LOL, I just didn't want to call out any names. Thank you for clarifying how the swipe mechanics worked and luckily my Logitech G105 and G303 are up to the task if I choose to configure them for Minecraft.
They changed a fundamental mechanic in a way that makes it more complex. Of course your play-style has to change, even if only a little bit. It doesn't have to do with right or not right; it's the way things are.
I played 1.9 from the beginning of its snapshots. The only difference between my behavior now and then is that I have to think a little bit more. Once I got used to it (extremely quickly, within twenty minutes), the only deaths at the hands of mobs were things that I could've avoided but made poor decisions about.
I tried playing 1.8 after playing 1.9 after so long, and there was an enormous difference. I became completely bored out of my mind. I was no longer surviving. I was simply the world's pest control service, playing whack-a-mole to farm resources. It wasn't that combat pervaded my every action. I build or mine far more than I fight. It was that the world before 1.9 was nowhere near as immersive because I may as well have been invulnerable. I may as well have been a god.
I'd call the balance changes positive.
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.