Yes. PvP will finally be interesting. The Kit PvP server I build maps for is very excited and we plan on making many more kits once 1.9 rolls out. All aspects are being changed and different strategies are possible. Melee getting more weapons to choose from besides the sword; as well as getting shields. Ranged gets new arrow types. Potions now get the lingering type. All this update needs is more of those missing potion effects and it will be complete.
They're just easy to farm red dye. And aren't Mojang trying to make all the versions equal and compatible?
Yes, but poppies are easy to find. On the subject of poppies, why did Mojang turn them to poppies from roses? Roses were so much better. As for beetroots, I think they're kind of pointless as they aren't any better of a food source than potatoes or carrots or bread. On the subject of poisonous potatoes, they're just one of those rare but useless items that you put in a chest or frame.
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Still, having that much variety in weaponry would feel rather odd if armor and mobs don't get the same level of variety.
There also is the question of how all this would be crafted, since there's only so much room on the crafting table.
Also, where's the weapon that does slightly less damage than a sword but ignores a large percentage of the victim's armor?
We have variety in mobs and armor already in Vanilla. Not sure why you think that adding more weapons variety means we must then have more mobs. The two aren't tied together. As far as armor goes; Tinker's does add wood armor (roughly equal to leather, uses raw logs for construction) and "Traveller's Gear", which can have modifiers added to it to replace the Enchants that cannot be put on it.
As far as crafting, Yes. That is an issue. I think that we would almost have to see a Tinker's style crafting system, using patterns and specialized crafting benches. Alternately, the parts for the weapons could be crafted separately. IE: You make a sword blade, then a hand guard, then the hilt, then put them together in the crafting bench and get a completed weapon. This is similar to how Tinker's does it, but without the patterns. Frankly, I really like the Tinker's system. I'm doing a modded UHC series on my YT channel right now and I show how simple it is to get up and running in the first couple episodes. It takes less than 5 minutes longer than it does in Vanilla, and the Tinker's base tools are just as good (if not better) than the Vanilla base tools. I know the Tinker's wood pick is as fast as the Vanilla stone pick. Although with much less durability.
As far as a weapon that can bypass armor, one might say that using any kind of Flame enchant (Tinker's uses the "Fiery" modifier which is done by adding Blaze powder to the tool, max of 25 per modifier slot) pretty much covers that. At least for mobs that are damaged by fire. Otherwise, no. No weapons that can bypass armor. Not sure why you would want that though.
I think you mean, "Can bypass the shield" like the 1.9 Vanilla Axe can. Since Tinker's is coded currently only for up to 1.7.10 and 1.9 is still in Beta, NO modded weapons can do that. Although I could see the Batleaxe, Scythe and the Javelin perhaps being able to do that. Maybe the Rapier too, since it is so quick. (It can go around the shield, vs powering through it.)
As far as a weapon that can bypass armor, one might say that using any kind of Flame enchant (Tinker's uses the "Fiery" modifier which is done by adding Blaze powder to the tool, max of 25 per modifier slot) pretty much covers that. At least for mobs that are damaged by fire. Otherwise, no. No weapons that can bypass armor. Not sure why you would want that though.
I think you mean, "Can bypass the shield" like the 1.9 Vanilla Axe can. Since Tinker's is coded currently only for up to 1.7.10 and 1.9 is still in Beta, NO modded weapons can do that. Although I could see the Batleaxe, Scythe and the Javelin perhaps being able to do that. Maybe the Rapier too, since it is so quick. (It can go around the shield, vs powering through it.)
By "ignore armor", I basically mean "reduces how much the armor value factors into damage calculation". Basically, armor penetration.
Make note that I did account for how such a weapon would be balanced (lower base damage, and doesn't completely ignore armor), but perhaps some other factors could be added to further balance it, such as lower durability, and some way to make it less effective on lightly-armored opponents. Of course, if these varied weapons were implemented alongside the cooldown, I'd give the armor-piecing weapon a somewhat longer cooldown, since otherwise without these cooldowns there'd be no reason not to spam it against opponents with diamond armor.
It's obviously a PvP-oriented thing, but so are all the other new weapon types you had in mind, since the standard sword, axe, and bow are more than enough for PvE.
I suppose it'd take a bit of work to change the way damage works for one weapon, but surely a competent modder could achieve it.
and making armor worse at low durability is a bad idea IMO
I agree with this, that would make armor very underpowered. Though didn't Mojang say they were gonna scrap that idea?
Anyway, yes, 1.9 is for the better. For the most part anyway. We're going from easy-win click/critical spamming to actually thinking out our attacks just a bit more. I know people are complaining they want their click-spam back but hey, we got shields now.
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I agree with this, that would make armor very underpowered. Though didn't Mojang say they were gonna scrap that idea?
Anyway, yes, 1.9 is for the better. For the most part anyway. We're going from easy-win click/critical spamming to actually thinking out our attacks just a bit more. I know people are complaining they want their click-spam back but hey, we got shields now.
Agreed. I'm also a bit surprised Mojang hasn't taken the time to add new weapons to take advantage of the new combat parameters. Having some new melee & ranged options would be pretty neat! Not to mention a way to dispatch a crazy amount of mobs in a horde.. I'm also surprised they have yet to add a few more mobs.
In general, Minecraft Updates have always been "for the better". However, some are more "for the better" than others. 1.4 was an amazingly well-done update, including a great many features for SSP, creative mapmakers, and modded MC. 1.8 was more questionable, with most changes being back-end, aside from a few new SSP additions and commands to use. Because of all the back-end changes, modders are still trying to update to 1.8 a year after its release. However, these back-end changes make for FAR cleaner and faster code, and are certainly "for the better". 1.9 I believe will be more like 1.4, considering it has many features for SSP, balance tweaks for PvP (I believe if you are open-minded and willing to accept new variety in PvP, 1.9's combat changes are very necessary), new mechanics for command blocks for redstone geniuses, and do so without too much back-end changes that modders will have a hard time updating.
By "ignore armor", I basically mean "reduces how much the armor value factors into damage calculation". Basically, armor penetration.
Make note that I did account for how such a weapon would be balanced (lower base damage, and doesn't completely ignore armor), but perhaps some other factors could be added to further balance it, such as lower durability, and some way to make it less effective on lightly-armored opponents. Of course, if these varied weapons were implemented alongside the cooldown, I'd give the armor-piecing weapon a somewhat longer cooldown, since otherwise without these cooldowns there'd be no reason not to spam it against opponents with diamond armor.
It's obviously a PvP-oriented thing, but so are all the other new weapon types you had in mind, since the standard sword, axe, and bow are more than enough for PvE.
I suppose it'd take a bit of work to change the way damage works for one weapon, but surely a competent modder could achieve it.
Actually, I was going back through the stats for the different Tinker's weapons, and the Rapier is actually the weapon that ignores armor. It directly hits any opponent, essentially "punching through" armor. http://tinkers-construct.wikia.com/wiki/Rapier
It does very little damage "per hit", (max 4 points/2 hearts of damage on an unmodified Rapier made from the top level material in TiC, Manyullyn.) but makes up for it in speed. It is the speed clicker's friend, but I would imagine it would be well countered by a shield wielder.
I have found that the weapons in Tinker's are VERY well balanced, as the really slow weapons have the chance to one-shot any unarmored mob and two-shot an unarmored player, while the really fast weapons can prevent the slow ones from landing a hit with constant harassment and fast movement. It makes for a nice variety, and works well for PVE and PVP.
Just for reference, here is the wiki and all the weapons with their damage tables. Note that this is for the PLAIN weapon, no modifiers, so they compare against plain vanilla weapons without enchants.
Actually, I was going back through the stats for the different Tinker's weapons, and the Rapier is actually the weapon that ignores armor. It directly hits any opponent, essentially "punching through" armor. http://tinkers-construct.wikia.com/wiki/Rapier
It does very little damage "per hit", (max 4 points/2 hearts of damage on an unmodified Rapier made from the top level material in TiC, Manyullyn.) but makes up for it in speed. It is the speed clicker's friend, but I would imagine it would be well countered by a shield wielder.
I have found that the weapons in Tinker's are VERY well balanced, as the really slow weapons have the chance to one-shot any unarmored mob and two-shot an unarmored player, while the really fast weapons can prevent the slow ones from landing a hit with constant harassment and fast movement. It makes for a nice variety, and works well for PVE and PVP.
Just for reference, here is the wiki and all the weapons with their damage tables. Note that this is for the PLAIN weapon, no modifiers, so they compare against plain vanilla weapons without enchants.
Isn't something like this just SO MUCH BETTER than the stupid "cooldown" on vanilla swords? I think so. I just wish Mojang would pay attention.
So from what I'm seeing, all the new melee weapons except cleaver are just "sword but weaker and with some unnecessary extra feature", and the cleaver even has a "slow swing", which is essentially the same exact thing as cooldown.
And also, does the cooldown make more sense if you see it as moving your arm into an optimal position for a swing after every hit? Do you think the swords are styrofoam bats, or slabs of wood/stone/metal/carbon? Have you even swung a decently weighty sword-like object in real life? Do you really think flailing your arm like an idiot is somehow more effective than large swings?
So from what I'm seeing, all the new melee weapons except cleaver are just "sword but weaker and with some unnecessary extra feature", and the cleaver even has a "slow swing", which is essentially the same exact thing as cooldown.
And also, does the cooldown make more sense if you see it as moving your arm into an optimal position for a swing after every hit? Do you think the swords are styrofoam bats, or slabs of wood/stone/metal/carbon? Have you even swung a decently weighty sword-like object in real life? Do you really think flailing your arm like an idiot is somehow more effective than large swings?
Then you clearly aren't reading the articles. The Longsword does increased damage with some knockback while sprinting. The Battleaxe has large knockback and the Scythe has an AOE attack. The Cutlass grants a speed boost upon blocking an enemy attack, the Frying Pan (Yes, that is a TiC weapon) causes the slowness effect on enemies. The Battlesign reflects damage back towards the enemy. The Javelin can be used for BOTH Melee attack AND for ranged attack (It can be thrown very accurately and has a "quiver" so it can be thrown multiple times.) The Hammer (more of a PVE weapon) has Smite built in.
The Cleaver is the only truly "slow" weapon, although ALL of the weapons have different swing speeds. You CANNOT spam a battleaxe or longsword like you can with a Rapier. They have a capped-out maximum swing rate. This is VERY different from the "cooldown" effect which still allows you to spam away, but with little harm. If you want to make silly realism comparisons about flailing away with a real sword, you would be surprised how quickly you can move weapons, particularly the Rapier. Observe some real Fencing:
Also, check out the swing speed in Kendo (Japanese fencing with two-handed swords. Two handed wielding is naturally slower than one-handed)
The point being, that while I AGREE that sword spamming needs to stop, slowing down the swords to the point that it is impossible to handle a sudden surge of Zombies or Skeles without instant death IS. NOT. FUN. It certainly doesn't bring "Variety" any more than forcing Olympic highjump competitors to wear ankle weights brings beings "Variety" to the Highjump competition.
The "Cooldown" concept needs to be scrapped, and a different approach with more weapon variety, with different weapons having different max swing speeds and different damage tables should be used instead.
If you want to make silly realism comparisons about flailing away with a real sword, you would be surprised how quickly you can move weapons, particularly the Rapier. Observe some real Fencing:
[video]
Also, check out the swing speed in Kendo (Japanese fencing with two-handed swords. Two handed wielding is naturally slower than one-handed)
[video]
Now the problem with those videos is the kind of sword being used.
My point about the real-life interpretation of the cooldown bar was made with the vanilla Minecraft sword in mind, a one-handed short sword with blades on both edges, designed for slashing, being used to kill.
The swords in those videos are quite different from Minecraft's swords, and most importantly, are being used in a sporting event in which the competitors are most certainly not trying to kill each other.
Basically I'm making statements about bears, and you're trying to refute them with facts about tigers.
I may be wrong but MC is not reality and realism is a pointless argument as the real world isn't made out of 1 m sized cubes. MC physics is compleatly different form real world physics so to assume a sword would work the same in real life as it does in MC makes no since at all. The realism argument really needs to stop. And yes I do think 1.9 is going to be better for the game not because I love PVP cause I dont but it will add beats and purple blocks which will make builds more colorful and building is what I love about the game.
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Curse PremiumYes. PvP will finally be interesting. The Kit PvP server I build maps for is very excited and we plan on making many more kits once 1.9 rolls out. All aspects are being changed and different strategies are possible. Melee getting more weapons to choose from besides the sword; as well as getting shields. Ranged gets new arrow types. Potions now get the lingering type. All this update needs is more of those missing potion effects and it will be complete.
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LOLZ 1.9 is gonna be SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, but poppies are easy to find. On the subject of poppies, why did Mojang turn them to poppies from roses? Roses were so much better. As for beetroots, I think they're kind of pointless as they aren't any better of a food source than potatoes or carrots or bread. On the subject of poisonous potatoes, they're just one of those rare but useless items that you put in a chest or frame.
-The Lovely and Magestic RainbowGirl
Whatever I just said, I didn't mean any offense. Unless we're fighting, in which case I probably did.
If I said something was a joke when it didn't seem like one, I'm making an excuse to avoid an argument I know is coming. Instead of telling me how not funny I am and how it didn't seem like a joke at all, just go along with it. Because flame wars suck and nobody wants to be a part of one.
Roughly 95% of Minecraft players hate Villagers and would be very happy if they were removed. If you are one of the 5% who actually like villagers, copy this into your signature.-RainbowGirl
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We have variety in mobs and armor already in Vanilla. Not sure why you think that adding more weapons variety means we must then have more mobs. The two aren't tied together. As far as armor goes; Tinker's does add wood armor (roughly equal to leather, uses raw logs for construction) and "Traveller's Gear", which can have modifiers added to it to replace the Enchants that cannot be put on it.
As far as crafting, Yes. That is an issue. I think that we would almost have to see a Tinker's style crafting system, using patterns and specialized crafting benches. Alternately, the parts for the weapons could be crafted separately. IE: You make a sword blade, then a hand guard, then the hilt, then put them together in the crafting bench and get a completed weapon. This is similar to how Tinker's does it, but without the patterns. Frankly, I really like the Tinker's system. I'm doing a modded UHC series on my YT channel right now and I show how simple it is to get up and running in the first couple episodes. It takes less than 5 minutes longer than it does in Vanilla, and the Tinker's base tools are just as good (if not better) than the Vanilla base tools. I know the Tinker's wood pick is as fast as the Vanilla stone pick. Although with much less durability.
As far as a weapon that can bypass armor, one might say that using any kind of Flame enchant (Tinker's uses the "Fiery" modifier which is done by adding Blaze powder to the tool, max of 25 per modifier slot) pretty much covers that. At least for mobs that are damaged by fire. Otherwise, no. No weapons that can bypass armor. Not sure why you would want that though.
I think you mean, "Can bypass the shield" like the 1.9 Vanilla Axe can. Since Tinker's is coded currently only for up to 1.7.10 and 1.9 is still in Beta, NO modded weapons can do that. Although I could see the Batleaxe, Scythe and the Javelin perhaps being able to do that. Maybe the Rapier too, since it is so quick. (It can go around the shield, vs powering through it.)
By "ignore armor", I basically mean "reduces how much the armor value factors into damage calculation". Basically, armor penetration.
Make note that I did account for how such a weapon would be balanced (lower base damage, and doesn't completely ignore armor), but perhaps some other factors could be added to further balance it, such as lower durability, and some way to make it less effective on lightly-armored opponents. Of course, if these varied weapons were implemented alongside the cooldown, I'd give the armor-piecing weapon a somewhat longer cooldown, since otherwise without these cooldowns there'd be no reason not to spam it against opponents with diamond armor.
It's obviously a PvP-oriented thing, but so are all the other new weapon types you had in mind, since the standard sword, axe, and bow are more than enough for PvE.
I suppose it'd take a bit of work to change the way damage works for one weapon, but surely a competent modder could achieve it.
I agree with this, that would make armor very underpowered. Though didn't Mojang say they were gonna scrap that idea?
Anyway, yes, 1.9 is for the better. For the most part anyway. We're going from easy-win click/critical spamming to actually thinking out our attacks just a bit more. I know people are complaining they want their click-spam back but hey, we got shields now.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
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Curse PremiumAgreed. I'm also a bit surprised Mojang hasn't taken the time to add new weapons to take advantage of the new combat parameters. Having some new melee & ranged options would be pretty neat! Not to mention a way to dispatch a crazy amount of mobs in a horde.. I'm also surprised they have yet to add a few more mobs.
Figured it was time for a change.
Wait, it got released????????
If so, I like the fact that spam clicking has been removed, I die often due to that in pvp
This poll really needs a option for people who like some things but not others that they are adding and fixing.
Not really.
Nobody likes everything, so it's better if people are forced to decide.
Spears, Daggers, and Hammers for 1.9
Chorus fruits - YUM!!
Potions are tastier, I haven't tested them but I think that means they heal hunger! YES!
Cooldown - I really don't mind, it's not like I PvP much anyways, so I just need to get used to it.
Everything else - YUS!
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Curse PremiumIn general, Minecraft Updates have always been "for the better". However, some are more "for the better" than others. 1.4 was an amazingly well-done update, including a great many features for SSP, creative mapmakers, and modded MC. 1.8 was more questionable, with most changes being back-end, aside from a few new SSP additions and commands to use. Because of all the back-end changes, modders are still trying to update to 1.8 a year after its release. However, these back-end changes make for FAR cleaner and faster code, and are certainly "for the better". 1.9 I believe will be more like 1.4, considering it has many features for SSP, balance tweaks for PvP (I believe if you are open-minded and willing to accept new variety in PvP, 1.9's combat changes are very necessary), new mechanics for command blocks for redstone geniuses, and do so without too much back-end changes that modders will have a hard time updating.
Actually, I was going back through the stats for the different Tinker's weapons, and the Rapier is actually the weapon that ignores armor. It directly hits any opponent, essentially "punching through" armor. http://tinkers-construct.wikia.com/wiki/Rapier
It does very little damage "per hit", (max 4 points/2 hearts of damage on an unmodified Rapier made from the top level material in TiC, Manyullyn.) but makes up for it in speed. It is the speed clicker's friend, but I would imagine it would be well countered by a shield wielder.
I have found that the weapons in Tinker's are VERY well balanced, as the really slow weapons have the chance to one-shot any unarmored mob and two-shot an unarmored player, while the really fast weapons can prevent the slow ones from landing a hit with constant harassment and fast movement. It makes for a nice variety, and works well for PVE and PVP.
Just for reference, here is the wiki and all the weapons with their damage tables. Note that this is for the PLAIN weapon, no modifiers, so they compare against plain vanilla weapons without enchants.
http://tinkers-construct.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Search?search=weapons&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&ns14=1#
Isn't something like this just SO MUCH BETTER than the stupid "cooldown" on vanilla swords? I think so. I just wish Mojang would pay attention.
Forced Dichotomies are NEVER better. All you get is an absurdly inaccurate result. Ask any statistician.
So from what I'm seeing, all the new melee weapons except cleaver are just "sword but weaker and with some unnecessary extra feature", and the cleaver even has a "slow swing", which is essentially the same exact thing as cooldown.
And also, does the cooldown make more sense if you see it as moving your arm into an optimal position for a swing after every hit? Do you think the swords are styrofoam bats, or slabs of wood/stone/metal/carbon? Have you even swung a decently weighty sword-like object in real life? Do you really think flailing your arm like an idiot is somehow more effective than large swings?
Then you clearly aren't reading the articles. The Longsword does increased damage with some knockback while sprinting. The Battleaxe has large knockback and the Scythe has an AOE attack. The Cutlass grants a speed boost upon blocking an enemy attack, the Frying Pan (Yes, that is a TiC weapon) causes the slowness effect on enemies. The Battlesign reflects damage back towards the enemy. The Javelin can be used for BOTH Melee attack AND for ranged attack (It can be thrown very accurately and has a "quiver" so it can be thrown multiple times.) The Hammer (more of a PVE weapon) has Smite built in.
The Cleaver is the only truly "slow" weapon, although ALL of the weapons have different swing speeds. You CANNOT spam a battleaxe or longsword like you can with a Rapier. They have a capped-out maximum swing rate. This is VERY different from the "cooldown" effect which still allows you to spam away, but with little harm. If you want to make silly realism comparisons about flailing away with a real sword, you would be surprised how quickly you can move weapons, particularly the Rapier. Observe some real Fencing:
Also, check out the swing speed in Kendo (Japanese fencing with two-handed swords. Two handed wielding is naturally slower than one-handed)
The point being, that while I AGREE that sword spamming needs to stop, slowing down the swords to the point that it is impossible to handle a sudden surge of Zombies or Skeles without instant death IS. NOT. FUN. It certainly doesn't bring "Variety" any more than forcing Olympic highjump competitors to wear ankle weights brings beings "Variety" to the Highjump competition.
The "Cooldown" concept needs to be scrapped, and a different approach with more weapon variety, with different weapons having different max swing speeds and different damage tables should be used instead.
Now the problem with those videos is the kind of sword being used.
My point about the real-life interpretation of the cooldown bar was made with the vanilla Minecraft sword in mind, a one-handed short sword with blades on both edges, designed for slashing, being used to kill.
The swords in those videos are quite different from Minecraft's swords, and most importantly, are being used in a sporting event in which the competitors are most certainly not trying to kill each other.
Basically I'm making statements about bears, and you're trying to refute them with facts about tigers.
I may be wrong but MC is not reality and realism is a pointless argument as the real world isn't made out of 1 m sized cubes. MC physics is compleatly different form real world physics so to assume a sword would work the same in real life as it does in MC makes no since at all. The realism argument really needs to stop. And yes I do think 1.9 is going to be better for the game not because I love PVP cause I dont but it will add beats and purple blocks which will make builds more colorful and building is what I love about the game.
I just took the Minecraft Noob test! Check out what I scored. Think you can beat me?!
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