DISCLAIMER: Everything I say comes in good faith. Please don't think I'm unfairly beating on the game and people who enjoy it. I myself love the game, but I just think it has so much wasted potential, and I want to share my thoughts.
I'm sorry, but Minecraft is boring. A lot of people respond to this with "oh, well, just start a new project" or "hey, build this". Like, seriously? If a game makes you bored, it's not the fault of the player, it's the game, EVEN IF it is a sandbox. Just because it's a sandbox where you can "do whatever you want" doesn't excuse it from having no game to play. TERRARIA is a sandbox, but there's still stuff to do in it, other than just aimlessly building stuff and relying on YOURSELF to find meaning in playing it.
Player progression is nearly non-existent. There are several sets of armor that exist in the game, but literally only TWO matter, iron and diamond (iron is good early game, diamond is good late game). Leather armor is harder to get than iron and WEAKER; the only purpose is leather boots saving you from powdered snow. Gold armor is really bad and not worth it; the only use for it is not being attacked by Piglins. Chainmail armor is only accessible through trading or killing mobs, and really is not worth it in any way. And Netherite armor is IRRELEVANT in normal Survival. When's the last time you actually relied on your set of Netherite armor. Once you get full diamond, especially with enchantments, you've already pretty much beaten the game, and no normal mob can really do that much to you. The only thing I can think of is Woodland Mansions, which are actually fairly tough, but is that it? There are no dedicated tiers, where enemies get progressively harder in structures or new dimensions, and rely on you to achieve new tiers of armor and tools.
If you're skilled enough, you can beat the Ender Dragon, the "final boss" of Minecraft, NAKED. Of course, it will be tough, but if you know what you're doing, it's definitely doable. Speaking of the Ender Dragon, what's even the point of beating it? Firstly, to actually get to the Ender Dragon, you need to search up what you have to do externally; there's no information within the game itself. Once you beat it, some random portal spawns in the End that you have to pearl through then go to the End islands. What's at the End islands? End cities. What's in End cities? Outside of loot, you can get elytras, and you can get Shulker shells, used to make Shulker boxes, which are portable storage. Other than that, that's it. You get practically an expanded inventory with all the Shulker boxes, and an elytra to glide and fly around. These items are not essential in any way and aren't actually needed to, like, "progress" or anything, they just make aimless building and boring exploring faster. The Wither is the same story; beacons can give you special abilities, but they're not actually essential. They just make playing this otherwise goalless game quicker. Also, the Wither was added in 1.4. We haven't gotten a new boss in nine years. NINE.
Minecraft at its core is just grinding to "progress" in a game with no goal. There's no point, no actual game to play and progress through. Again, a sandbox game can be a sandbox and still have things to do, like Terraria. Terraria is literally a sandbox; you can do whatever you want. But there are still bosses to beat and tiers to progress through. I haven't played the game myself, but from what I've seen, it clearly still has more substance than Minecraft. I think the quote "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" describes Minecraft perfectly. There are many blocks and mobs and structures and biomes, but in the End, it's based on nothing; there's nothing you can actually do, no game to play. Do you ever wonder why millions of people play with all these cool mods and modpacks, which greatly expand on the game, add new dimensions, et cetera? Because they offer actual content. A lot of people might argue that Minecraft is supposed to be a "platform", where the community makes the content. Firstly, Mojang themselves have states that they do not officially support mods, which is why we have not gotten, and will never get, a modding API. Secondly, really? Minecraft is still supposed to be a game with actual content itself. If you have to rely on modding to make your game actually good and substantial, then that's just unnacceptable.
My dumb rant is over. I will probably get a lot of hate for this, but I just wanted to vent. I'm just a little frustrated that the game has been in development for 10-12 years, and there's still barely any content. Again, this was not meant to be in bad faith, I just wanted to share my opinion on the game. What are your thoughts?
That's fair, minecraft doesn't really have that much in the way of a story and an average player can get to endgame content in a couple hours, but I think it would be a different game if it was heavily progess based. Personally I don't really play survival all that much, mostly I just build stuff these days as a way to relax and be creative, sure I could probably learn blender or do other forms of digital art, but minecraft is easier in a way. To me that's enough, but different strokes for different folks I guess.
Netherite is really pretty irrelevant now, maybe with the introduction of the warden and the deep dark people will have more of a reason to use it. I'm not sure if they've changed it but when they first announced it, the warden could kill a player in full netherite in three hits or so. That easily makes it the strongest enemy in the game so I can see the deep dark being more of an endgame area. I hope that they introduce some more lore with the deep dark though, that's always been lacking in my eyes.
The very reason for Minecraft's incredible success is that it has no set storyline - you decide how the game is to be played, as mentioned by countless sites which explain its popularity:
1. Ownership & creativity
Minecraft lets you create your world. You are the master of your little universe in there. Your mind takes the reins and runs wild. Your imaginations are endless, and so are your chances to express them in Minecraft. You can do what you can’t in the real world, right in the game.
8. Not Restrictive
Most of the games follow the formula of a guided storyline, in which all the gamers experience the same exact thing. Same storyline, same character deaths, and same consequences leading to one (or several) endings. In Minecraft, you create your own story and create your own endings.
A bit of a rebuttal to the second quote - Minecraft has no real "ending" - the vast majority of my gameplay occurs long after I "beat" the game; the progression to the Ender Dragon is even entirely optional and I never did it in some of my worlds, and have never fought the Wither in Survival - the game only ends when you decide to stop playing on a world, and even then I've gone back to an older world up to 5 years after I originally stopped playing on it (I still have most of the worlds I've ever played on):
IMO, it sounds like you are better off playing games that have a set storyline/clear progression, and you are free to play any other game so there is no reason to be making this thread.
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I can't understand why MineCraft is at fault here, and why IT is to blame when players have no intellect or imagination.
There are certain cultures around the world where life is so easy that people end up thinking that they will be spoon-fed for their entire lives, and not have to lift a finger to do anything. When players start complaining that games like MineCraft "don't have enough content" or are "boring", they are not highlighting a problem with MineCraft, they are highlighting a big problem with the society in which they live.
I can't understand why MineCraft is at fault here, and why IT is to blame when players have no intellect or imagination.
There are certain cultures around the world where life is so easy that people end up thinking that they will be spoon-fed for their entire lives, and not have to lift a finger to do anything. When players start complaining that games like MineCraft "don't have enough content" or are "boring", they are not highlighting a problem with MineCraft, they are highlighting a big problem with the society in which they live.
Minecraft is a game. Even if it is a "sandbox", it's still supposed to be an experience in itself. If I buy Half-Life 2, I expect there to be a story I can play through and complete. If I buy Terraria, I expect there to still be a game to play, outside of its inherent sandbox nature (which it has; bosses, tiers, an actual progressional experience you can play through).
Minecraft has nothing to offer. The sandbox front is all it's operating on, and all it has offered for 10+ years. It's fun for 4-year-olds, as they have much larger imaginations and can't get enough of the sandbox experience. But once you grow past 10 years old, there's nothing for you. Video games still have at least some point to them. What's the point of Minecraft? Build until you get bored? Loot the same structure you've looted a million times and seen a million more? Spend hours underground just strip mining for the same blue ore? An infinite sandbox where you can do whatever you want is just not enough. I want content, please.
I think it's completely possible for the game to remain a fundamental sandbox but still have an optional progression path. If you don't WANT to "progress" and just chill and build, you can do that. If you want to "progress" through the game and beat it, you should be able to do that, too. The "story" of the game doesn't even need to be that strict; it can be loose and still have freedom-based elements. All Minecraft needs is something to do, something substantial and with meaning.
Sometimes I feel kind of like that, where I just feel like there's not much to do. Sometimes I load my Minecraft world and leave it a couple minutes later because I just couldn't think of anything to do.
Although I do feel like Minecraft is entertaining to play most of the time when I'm doing things like exploring the world, building a house, and some other third thing; but I know what you're talking about.
I think it would be a different game if it was heavily progess based.
I'm not calling for it to be heavily progress-based, though. I understand Minecraft is famous for its practically limitless sandbox front. The game can still be fundamentally a sandbox and still have an overarching progression system with new bosses and tiers and places to go. I don't want a strict story you have to go through; that would ruin the game, I agree. It can be optional and for players who want to go through it. We haven't gotten a new boss in nearly a decade, and it would be unbelievably cool if Minecraft actually started living up to its currently unearned "3D Terraria" image.
Minecraft makes money off of being CYOA (choose your own adventure)
Minecraft can be more than that. The game is in sore need of actual content players can dip their toes in and an engaging progression system that keeps people in. Terraria runs off the same "you can do whatever you want, choose your own gameplay style" front, but it still has a dope story you can progress through with epic bosses and cool stuff you can do. It's a sandbox but still has a game you can play. Heck, remember Hytale? That's gonna be a sandbox game, but it's still gonna have stuff to do. I hate to say this as a heavy fan of Minecraft, but I think it's gonna blow Minecraft out of the park. Minecraft lacks the substance Terraria and other games have in the genre.
Find a mod that has a fixed storyline or purchase MC Dungeons.
It's honestly kinda bad that I have to mod the game to get a worthwhile, meaningful experience out of it (outside of the sandbox, of course, it gets the sandbox portion right, but it should offer more than that imo). Minecraft needs to operate on more than just "do whatever you want". The game is aimless and lacks substance. Minecraft has so much potential but it's just being squandered.
DISCLAIMER: Everything I say comes in good faith. Please don't think I'm unfairly beating on the game and people who enjoy it. I myself love the game, but I just think it has so much wasted potential, and I want to share my thoughts.
I'm sorry, but Minecraft is boring. A lot of people respond to this with "oh, well, just start a new project" or "hey, build this". Like, seriously? If a game makes you bored, it's not the fault of the player, it's the game, EVEN IF it is a sandbox. Just because it's a sandbox where you can "do whatever you want" doesn't excuse it from having no game to play. TERRARIA is a sandbox, but there's still stuff to do in it, other than just aimlessly building stuff and relying on YOURSELF to find meaning in playing it.
Player progression is nearly non-existent. There are several sets of armor that exist in the game, but literally only TWO matter, iron and diamond (iron is good early game, diamond is good late game). Leather armor is harder to get than iron and WEAKER; the only purpose is leather boots saving you from powdered snow. Gold armor is really bad and not worth it; the only use for it is not being attacked by Piglins. Chainmail armor is only accessible through trading or killing mobs, and really is not worth it in any way. And Netherite armor is IRRELEVANT in normal Survival. When's the last time you actually relied on your set of Netherite armor. Once you get full diamond, especially with enchantments, you've already pretty much beaten the game, and no normal mob can really do that much to you. The only thing I can think of is Woodland Mansions, which are actually fairly tough, but is that it? There are no dedicated tiers, where enemies get progressively harder in structures or new dimensions, and rely on you to achieve new tiers of armor and tools.
If you're skilled enough, you can beat the Ender Dragon, the "final boss" of Minecraft, NAKED. Of course, it will be tough, but if you know what you're doing, it's definitely doable. Speaking of the Ender Dragon, what's even the point of beating it? Firstly, to actually get to the Ender Dragon, you need to search up what you have to do externally; there's no information within the game itself. Once you beat it, some random portal spawns in the End that you have to pearl through then go to the End islands. What's at the End islands? End cities. What's in End cities? Outside of loot, you can get elytras, and you can get Shulker shells, used to make Shulker boxes, which are portable storage. Other than that, that's it. You get practically an expanded inventory with all the Shulker boxes, and an elytra to glide and fly around. These items are not essential in any way and aren't actually needed to, like, "progress" or anything, they just make aimless building and boring exploring faster. The Wither is the same story; beacons can give you special abilities, but they're not actually essential. They just make playing this otherwise goalless game quicker. Also, the Wither was added in 1.4. We haven't gotten a new boss in nine years. NINE.
Minecraft at its core is just grinding to "progress" in a game with no goal. There's no point, no actual game to play and progress through. Again, a sandbox game can be a sandbox and still have things to do, like Terraria. Terraria is literally a sandbox; you can do whatever you want. But there are still bosses to beat and tiers to progress through. I haven't played the game myself, but from what I've seen, it clearly still has more substance than Minecraft. I think the quote "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" describes Minecraft perfectly. There are many blocks and mobs and structures and biomes, but in the End, it's based on nothing; there's nothing you can actually do, no game to play. Do you ever wonder why millions of people play with all these cool mods and modpacks, which greatly expand on the game, add new dimensions, et cetera? Because they offer actual content. A lot of people might argue that Minecraft is supposed to be a "platform", where the community makes the content. Firstly, Mojang themselves have states that they do not officially support mods, which is why we have not gotten, and will never get, a modding API. Secondly, really? Minecraft is still supposed to be a game with actual content itself. If you have to rely on modding to make your game actually good and substantial, then that's just unnacceptable.
My dumb rant is over. I will probably get a lot of hate for this, but I just wanted to vent. I'm just a little frustrated that the game has been in development for 10-12 years, and there's still barely any content. Again, this was not meant to be in bad faith, I just wanted to share my opinion on the game. What are your thoughts?
I agree that netherite armour isn't needed to beat the game, it never was before, so why now? and it does essentially remove all challenge from survival, and it probably shouldn't be available on the harder difficulty modes, but I do have alternative ideas to this.
however I disagree that Minecraft needs a story, it's a sandbox, you make up your own adventure, if you don't appreciate that then that's what story mode is for, which is a separate game altogether, but is more or less what you're looking for.
and no offence, but as a sandbox, you're supposed to be able to build structures of your own design, so it makes sense why the shulker boxes and elytra were added, if they weren't then building would've been far more tedious than it is now, same thing with mining for the resources for that purpose.
Perhaps it could benefit from a more complex progression system, and more dimensions could be added, like for example, after you beat the Ender Dragon, you get a skeleton key, and this skeleton key can be used to activate a block you can pick up using silk touch, which you find in End cities which would then take you to another dimension that has more bosses in them, and hostile mobs that are much more dangerous, and that if you die in that world, they can pick up your stuff and you would have to get new gear. Also Twilight Forest mod showcases a dimension Minecraft could truly benefit from if it were in the vanilla game, it has castles, labyrinths and new creatures and wizards you can do battle against, as well as interesting loot.
Something like this, would make netherite armour more useful, as without netherite armour, you'd have no knockback resistance, so climbing tall structures in this new dimension would be risky.
Warden in 1.19 is going to make netherite armour more useful too, as I'm sure leather armour wouldn't do anything to protect you from him. I like the idea of Minecraft having OP enemies which while avoidable, you're not supposed to go near them, if you do, you do so at your own risk, this is a fair way to increase the challenge in survival, because if you die and lose important loot to enemies like this, then it's no one else's fault, you had the option to walk away but you chose to go toward the nigh undefeatable mob, and the biomes they exist in are rare, so.
I agree that netherite armour isn't needed to beat the game, it never was before, so why now? and it does essentially remove all challenge from survival, and it probably shouldn't be available on the harder difficulty modes, but I do have alternative ideas to this.
Contrary to popular perception, Netherite is only slightly better than diamond and much weaker than diamond armor used to be - in 1.6.4 (before 1.9) diamond armor reduced damage by 80% no matter how much damage you take; a point-blank creeper explosion? No problem:
Java Edition 1.3.1 12w30a
In full diamond armor and hard difficulty, a creeper can knock players down to 2 hearts.
2 hearts? In the latest version you will die unless you enchant your armor; the increased "armor toughness" on Netherite doesn't come even close to offsetting armor penetration - even as creepers were nerfed (they used to do up to 73 damage on Hard, now only 64):
This shows that the damage taken by the player exceeds 20 well before the incoming damage reaches 64; in fact, you can only survive up to about 39 damage in full Netherite, which is just 3 more than full diamond, compared to 100 in older versions and less than the maximum damage (43) from a creeper on Normal difficulty! Even on Easy you'll lose over half your health (the only saving grace is that creepers stop moving about 3 blocks away, at which they deal about half their maximum damage, but you could still back into them or they are pushed by other mobs, they fall on you from a cliff, which also shortens their fuse from fall damage, etc).
Also, nobody uses leather armor not because it is hard to get but because it is literally worthless, only adding the equivalent of 1-2 extra health at the high end - even full iron only gives you 3-4 health against higher damage sources (it does increase to 2.5x health as damage nears 0; again, prior to 1.9 it was always this strong so it let you survive a single attack of up to 50 damage - around 30% more than full Netherite). At the least, armor penetration should not apply to all types of armor (if leather always provided full protection it would allow you to survive up to 27.7 damage at once, more than iron but iron is still much better against most mobs and lasts much longer); better yet, only specific attacks or weapons can penetrate armor, as they could before 1.9 (my own mod makes axes penetrate armor using the same formula as 1.9. Otherwise, you have status effects like Poison and Instant Harming, which are only affected by enchantments).
More of an issue are enchantments, which were greatly buffed in 1.9 - in earlier versions a full set of Protection IV reduced damage by a randomized 40-80% while since 1.9 it reduces damage by a constant 64%, meaning that the worst-case damage taken was reduced from 60% to 36%. Damage-specific enchantments are even stronger - a constant 80% as opposed to a randomized 52-80% (put another way, in 1.6.4 my armor only guarantees survival from a 44 block fall, while in current versions you can consistently survive a 102 block fall - and it doesn't even matter if you have leather or Netherite as only enchantments reduce fall damage).
I could go to DOOM forums and complain how that game could be so much more if there were quests and character development and all that.
I could go to Skyrim forums and complain how that game could be so much more if I could dig my own tunnels through mountains or build castles of my own design. (Cookie-cutter Hearthfire houses don't count)
I could go to XCOM forums and complain how that game could be so much more if I could control my soldiers is FPS mode, blasting aliens real time instead of all this turn-based nonsense.
So you don't 'get' Minecraft. That's fine. Imagination is not a universal trait. You probably also have no idea what to do with a LEGO set after you followed the build instructions. There are millions of people who 'get' Minecraft and like it the way it is, without some convoluted 'story' or 'progression' getting in the way. Minecraft is doing quite well without them, WAY better than a lot of games with 'story' and 'progression'.
If Terraria is so much more up your alley, go play Terraria.
Contrary to popular perception, Netherite is only slightly better than diamond and much weaker than diamond armor used to be - in 1.6.4 (before 1.9) diamond armor reduced damage by 80% no matter how much damage you take; a point-blank creeper explosion? No problem:
2 hearts? In the latest version you will die unless you enchant your armor; the increased "armor toughness" on Netherite doesn't come even close to offsetting armor penetration - even as creepers were nerfed (they used to do up to 73 damage on Hard, now only 64):
This shows that the damage taken by the player exceeds 20 well before the incoming damage reaches 64; in fact, you can only survive up to about 39 damage in full Netherite, which is just 3 more than full diamond, compared to 100 in older versions and less than the maximum damage (43) from a creeper on Normal difficulty! Even on Easy you'll lose over half your health (the only saving grace is that creepers stop moving about 3 blocks away, at which they deal about half their maximum damage, but you could still back into them or they are pushed by other mobs, they fall on you from a cliff, which also shortens their fuse from fall damage, etc).
Also, nobody uses leather armor not because it is hard to get but because it is literally worthless, only adding the equivalent of 1-2 extra health at the high end - even full iron only gives you 3-4 health against higher damage sources (it does increase to 2.5x health as damage nears 0; again, prior to 1.9 it was always this strong so it let you survive a single attack of up to 50 damage - around 30% more than full Netherite). At the least, armor penetration should not apply to all types of armor (if leather always provided full protection it would allow you to survive up to 27.7 damage at once, more than iron but iron is still much better against most mobs and lasts much longer); better yet, only specific attacks or weapons can penetrate armor, as they could before 1.9 (my own mod makes axes penetrate armor using the same formula as 1.9. Otherwise, you have status effects like Poison and Instant Harming, which are only affected by enchantments).
More of an issue are enchantments, which were greatly buffed in 1.9 - in earlier versions a full set of Protection IV reduced damage by a randomized 40-80% while since 1.9 it reduces damage by a constant 64%, meaning that the worst-case damage taken was reduced from 60% to 36%. Damage-specific enchantments are even stronger - a constant 80% as opposed to a randomized 52-80% (put another way, in 1.6.4 my armor only guarantees survival from a 44 block fall, while in current versions you can consistently survive a 102 block fall - and it doesn't even matter if you have leather or Netherite as only enchantments reduce fall damage).
Me and friends use leather armour during early game when a world has just been started and it is the only thing available without mining or searching through Villager chests, our reasoning for this is because some protection is better than none, but once we've progressed to Iron beyond I agree, leather armour is practically worthless except for when you're going across powdered snow, in which case you need leather boots to safely traverse mountain tops with snow on them as of 1.18, and that's if your higher tier armour isn't fully enchanted yet.
Netherite's advantage is as a dropped item it will not be destroyed in lava as we discussed before,
and you get +2 knockback resistance per plate, this can prevent Hoglins from pushing you off a cliff in the Nether to certain doom below.
There isn't a huge durability or protection benefit otherwise as far as I am aware, but it does affect gameplay,
However I've been happy to use diamond armour for most of my mid to late game travels, same thing with my friend lizking10152011,
it offers enough protection against anything the Overworld can throw at you, except for Witches, where poison damage ignores armour and damages the player directly, which is how it is able to take you down to half a heart if the longest duration potion is thrown.
Whenever I get Netherite ingots, the first item I usually put it on including my current world is a pickaxe, because tools get most of the durability increase, it's roughly 25%, it's something from 1561, to 2031, which is quite a benefit and it's why I give tools priority with this material.
I'm actually content with using Iron armour to fight Ender Dragon, with all Protection 4 enchantments, as long as you're careful and don't allow yourself to get cornered in bunkers while dragon breath is fired at you, you can defeat the Dragon easily. You don't even need a totem of undying to do this, and it is also possible to beat the dragon without potions, although if you want to guarantee not dying even once, potions are advised.
I could go to DOOM forums and complain how that game could be so much more if there were quests and character development and all that.
I could go to Skyrim forums and complain how that game could be so much more if I could dig my own tunnels through mountains or build castles of my own design. (Cookie-cutter Hearthfire houses don't count)
I could go to XCOM forums and complain how that game could be so much more if I could control my soldiers is FPS mode, blasting aliens real time instead of all this turn-based nonsense.
Yes, you have every right to criticize games if they don't meet your standards. But I would like to mention that I completely disagree with your examples of opinions. DOOM isn't meant to be heavily story-based; it's a shooter where you progress through levels and just have fun shooting demons. Skyrim isn't meant to be a sandbox where you build castles and dig tunnels, it's a first-person, open-world fantasy RPG where you follow a story. I don't know about XCOM, I don't know what that is.
"Oh, well, Minecraft isn't MEANT to be story-based, it's just a sandbox, so your opinion is wrong." You might say.
Two points. Firstly, the difference between the games of your examples and Minecraft is that those games still have a game. Skyrim has a story that you progress through with bosses and strict leveling and progression of your power and abilities. DOOM involves progression through levels and a loose story you follow. I have no idea what XCOM I can safely assume it has essential components of a game. Minecraft, meanwhile, has no purpose to play it at all. It has two bosses, both of whom are not essential to beat and are not part of any game system actually worthwhile, and there hasn't been a new boss in nearly a decade. Player progression just doesn't exist; it's just an aimless, pointless sandbox with barely any sense of basic game structure. It's a purposeless, contentless game. It's fun for its sandbox, but once you get bored of that, which you will, unless you don't mind time-wasters, what is there you can really do? Games still need a purpose for them, no matter how tight or loose. They don't even have to be stories; there are retro-esque games out there with no strict story if any, but still have basic game progression (e.g. a 2D platformer with different levels that get increasingly difficult, a puzzle game that tests your brainpower, a simple shooter where you just blast enemies and progress).
Secondly, that's exactly what I'm against: its whole purpose is just "sandbox". There has to be more than that, that's pathetic. Terraria is a sandbox but still has epic bosses and cool gear you can equip and progression systems in place to assist players in preparing for fights and stuff. When you get bored of the basic sandbox, you can go out there and defeat Eldritch beings with your superpowered gear and progress in a vague "plot". Hytale is going to be a sandbox, but it's still going to seemingly have progression systems with cool dungeons and bosses to explore and defeat, with a general goal. What does Minecraft have?
Wow, it took them 9 years to add sea anemones to caves...Omg they're adding frogs in the next update!!!! OMG MOJANG you shouldn't have!!
So you don't 'get' Minecraft. That's fine. Imagination is not a universal trait.
If I sell you a collection of dust bunnies from my couch, and you start railing on me how they're not worth it and have no point to them, you're simply NOT getting it. You need your ~IMAGINATION~ to create things with those dust bunnies. They can all be arranged in an infinite orientation. It's literally LEGO if you think about it! Oh, well, I guess some just don't have the power of ~IMAGINATION~ to understand these dust bunnies.
There are millions of people who 'get' Minecraft and like it the way it is, without some convoluted 'story' or 'progression' getting in the way.
The "story" does NOT have to be required. I thought I emphasized that, though I guess not enough. I understand the game is a sandbox, it can stay that way. What I advocate for is a game you CAN play and progress through. In Terraria, you don't really HAVE to beat the bosses, but you can, and most players DO do that because progression is entertaining and the reason why video games are even played in the first place. People today still try to beat the Ender Dragon, because their gamer senses tell them "hey, this is the end of the game, you can beat it!" when really the only purpose that fight serves is so you can access elytras and shulker shells.
Minecraft is doing quite well without them, WAY better than a lot of games with 'story' and 'progression'.
I'm going to say this up front: Minecraft is not popular for it's "aimless" sandbox gameplay. Minecraft is popular BECAUSE IT'S MINECRAFT. It's the ultra gigachad game that EVERYONE plays and everyone KNOWS everyone plays, so they play it just cuz it's MiNeCrAfT.
There are a lot of games out there that rip off Minecraft in the sandbox genre. If the whole "Minecraft is popular cuz no purpose" narrative is true, then where are the masses of fans praising THOSE games. You can "do whatever you want" in those rip-offs, yet 5 minutes in and you're already bored. With Minecraft, it would be the same. To give credit where credit is due, Minecraft has 1000000x more content than them, and it's much harder to get bored of the game (I myself have periods where I actually have mild fun playing Minecraft), but it's still completely possible, and you will get bored eventually (unless you established an actual emotional connection to your world or you're a popular YouTuber who HAS to keep on playing if you don't want to lose your career).
If Terraria is so much more up your alley, go play Terraria.
"If you don't like the game, just don't play it!" How many times does the Internet have to make fun of this argument? I don't think you understand how much I love Minecraft and THAT'S the reason why I made this post.
I want to see it grow and succeed. But its potential is being squandered; with the eventual release of Hytale, it's probably going to blow Minecraft out of the park. It will have actual dungeons and bosses and cool things to do. Minecraft is truly an ocean that is as deep as a puddle. I adore it for its level of sandbox and showcase of how free a sandbox could be, but that's all it has to offer. I mention Terraria because it can serve as a good example of what Minecraft can be: a sandbox but still with cool, progressional stuff to do that can keep you entertained.
Yes, you have every right to criticize games if they don't meet your standards. But I would like to mention that I completely disagree with your examples of opinions. DOOM isn't meant to be heavily story-based; it's a shooter where you progress through levels and just have fun shooting demons. Skyrim isn't meant to be a sandbox where you build castles and dig tunnels, it's a first-person, open-world fantasy RPG where you follow a story. I don't know about XCOM, I don't know what that is.
"Oh, well, Minecraft isn't MEANT to be story-based, it's just a sandbox, so your opinion is wrong." You might say.
Two points. Firstly, the difference between the games of your examples and Minecraft is that those games still have a game. Skyrim has a story that you progress through with bosses and strict leveling and progression of your power and abilities. DOOM involves progression through levels and a loose story you follow. I have no idea what XCOM I can safely assume it has essential components of a game. Minecraft, meanwhile, has no purpose to play it at all. It has two bosses, both of whom are not essential to beat and are not part of any game system actually worthwhile, and there hasn't been a new boss in nearly a decade. Player progression just doesn't exist; it's just an aimless, pointless sandbox with barely any sense of basic game structure. It's a purposeless, contentless game. It's fun for its sandbox, but once you get bored of that, which you will, unless you don't mind time-wasters, what is there you can really do? Games still need a purpose for them, no matter how tight or loose. They don't even have to be stories; there are retro-esque games out there with no strict story if any, but still have basic game progression (e.g. a 2D platformer with different levels that get increasingly difficult, a puzzle game that tests your brainpower, a simple shooter where you just blast enemies and progress).
Secondly, that's exactly what I'm against: its whole purpose is just "sandbox". There has to be more than that, that's pathetic. Terraria is a sandbox but still has epic bosses and cool gear you can equip and progression systems in place to assist players in preparing for fights and stuff. When you get bored of the basic sandbox, you can go out there and defeat Eldritch beings with your superpowered gear and progress in a vague "plot". Hytale is going to be a sandbox, but it's still going to seemingly have progression systems with cool dungeons and bosses to explore and defeat, with a general goal. What does Minecraft have?
Wow, it took them 9 years to add sea anemones to caves...Omg they're adding frogs in the next update!!!! OMG MOJANG you shouldn't have!!
If I sell you a collection of dust bunnies from my couch, and you start railing on me how they're not worth it and have no point to them, you're simply NOT getting it. You need your ~IMAGINATION~ to create things with those dust bunnies. They can all be arranged in an infinite orientation. It's literally LEGO if you think about it! Oh, well, I guess some just don't have the power of ~IMAGINATION~ to understand these dust bunnies.
The "story" does NOT have to be required. I thought I emphasized that, though I guess not enough. I understand the game is a sandbox, it can stay that way. What I advocate for is a game you CAN play and progress through. In Terraria, you don't really HAVE to beat the bosses, but you can, and most players DO do that because progression is entertaining and the reason why video games are even played in the first place. People today still try to beat the Ender Dragon, because their gamer senses tell them "hey, this is the end of the game, you can beat it!" when really the only purpose that fight serves is so you can access elytras and shulker shells.
I'm going to say this up front: Minecraft is not popular for it's "aimless" sandbox gameplay. Minecraft is popular BECAUSE IT'S MINECRAFT. It's the ultra gigachad game that EVERYONE plays and everyone KNOWS everyone plays, so they play it just cuz it's MiNeCrAfT.
There are a lot of games out there that rip off Minecraft in the sandbox genre. If the whole "Minecraft is popular cuz no purpose" narrative is true, then where are the masses of fans praising THOSE games. You can "do whatever you want" in those rip-offs, yet 5 minutes in and you're already bored. With Minecraft, it would be the same. To give credit where credit is due, Minecraft has 1000000x more content than them, and it's much harder to get bored of the game (I myself have periods where I actually have mild fun playing Minecraft), but it's still completely possible, and you will get bored eventually (unless you established an actual emotional connection to your world or you're a popular YouTuber who HAS to keep on playing if you don't want to lose your career).
"If you don't like the game, just don't play it!" How many times does the Internet have to make fun of this argument? I don't think you understand how much I love Minecraft and THAT'S the reason why I made this post.
I want to see it grow and succeed. But its potential is being squandered; with the eventual release of Hytale, it's probably going to blow Minecraft out of the park. It will have actual dungeons and bosses and cool things to do. Minecraft is truly an ocean that is as deep as a puddle. I adore it for its level of sandbox and showcase of how free a sandbox could be, but that's all it has to offer. I mention Terraria because it can serve as a good example of what Minecraft can be: a sandbox but still with cool, progressional stuff to do that can keep you entertained.
Sure, as long as this doesn't involve adding more annoying mechanics that result in griefed builds, I'm cool with a progression system.
Believe it or not many existing players who are playing Minecraft now not just myself, have put a lot of time, thought and work into their build designs and have taken full advantage of the sandbox aspect to achieve them. We'd hate to see that work being robbed from us, just because a few people wanted changes that don't really improve the game, but rather, make AI do something whitelisted servers aimed to prevent.
I agree with drkpandalord». I believe, however, that there is a core reason why so many people, myself included, find minecraft terribly boring after a short while. The lack of CHALLENGE.
Game progression is too quick to a point in which you dont have to sweat or even take any kind of care to kill mobs, obtain resources (Fortune III, anyone?) or do nearly anything. Yes, the game has a lot of options to build and keep entertained - but many players demand CHALLENGE, and wont be satisfied with that if everything is too easy. The game fails in the aspect of not providing challenges worthy of a more advanced player, with advanced combat techniques and top-tier equipment/enchantments.
I agree with drkpandalord». I believe, however, that there is a core reason why so many people, myself included, find minecraft terribly boring after a short while. The lack of CHALLENGE.
Game progression is too quick to a point in which you dont have to sweat or even take any kind of care to kill mobs, obtain resources (Fortune III, anyone?) or do nearly anything. Yes, the game has a lot of options to build and keep entertained - but many players demand CHALLENGE, and wont be satisfied with that if everything is too easy. The game fails in the aspect of not providing challenges worthy of a more advanced player, with advanced combat techniques and top-tier equipment/enchantments.
But if these changes are not made optional, and are forced on people who don't want them in the vanilla experience, this divides the Minecraft community even further than it already is, there are already endless spats going on these forums about what version people hate or like most.
I agree with drkpandalord». I believe, however, that there is a core reason why so many people, myself included, find minecraft terribly boring after a short while. The lack of CHALLENGE.
Game progression is too quick to a point in which you dont have to sweat or even take any kind of care to kill mobs, obtain resources (Fortune III, anyone?) or do nearly anything. Yes, the game has a lot of options to build and keep entertained - but many players demand CHALLENGE, and wont be satisfied with that if everything is too easy. The game fails in the aspect of not providing challenges worthy of a more advanced player, with advanced combat techniques and top-tier equipment/enchantments.
This is exactly what makes mod packs so compelling (at least for the Java Edition). You can find mod packs that add additional advanced content with bigger challenges, with some mod packs being so brutal and unforgiving that would challenge even the most seasoned Minecraft players.
DISCLAIMER: Everything I say comes in good faith. Please don't think I'm unfairly beating on the game and people who enjoy it. I myself love the game, but I just think it has so much wasted potential, and I want to share my thoughts.
I'm sorry, but Minecraft is boring. A lot of people respond to this with "oh, well, just start a new project" or "hey, build this". Like, seriously? If a game makes you bored, it's not the fault of the player, it's the game, EVEN IF it is a sandbox. Just because it's a sandbox where you can "do whatever you want" doesn't excuse it from having no game to play. TERRARIA is a sandbox, but there's still stuff to do in it, other than just aimlessly building stuff and relying on YOURSELF to find meaning in playing it.
Player progression is nearly non-existent. There are several sets of armor that exist in the game, but literally only TWO matter, iron and diamond (iron is good early game, diamond is good late game). Leather armor is harder to get than iron and WEAKER; the only purpose is leather boots saving you from powdered snow. Gold armor is really bad and not worth it; the only use for it is not being attacked by Piglins. Chainmail armor is only accessible through trading or killing mobs, and really is not worth it in any way. And Netherite armor is IRRELEVANT in normal Survival. When's the last time you actually relied on your set of Netherite armor. Once you get full diamond, especially with enchantments, you've already pretty much beaten the game, and no normal mob can really do that much to you. The only thing I can think of is Woodland Mansions, which are actually fairly tough, but is that it? There are no dedicated tiers, where enemies get progressively harder in structures or new dimensions, and rely on you to achieve new tiers of armor and tools.
If you're skilled enough, you can beat the Ender Dragon, the "final boss" of Minecraft, NAKED. Of course, it will be tough, but if you know what you're doing, it's definitely doable. Speaking of the Ender Dragon, what's even the point of beating it? Firstly, to actually get to the Ender Dragon, you need to search up what you have to do externally; there's no information within the game itself. Once you beat it, some random portal spawns in the End that you have to pearl through then go to the End islands. What's at the End islands? End cities. What's in End cities? Outside of loot, you can get elytras, and you can get Shulker shells, used to make Shulker boxes, which are portable storage. Other than that, that's it. You get practically an expanded inventory with all the Shulker boxes, and an elytra to glide and fly around. These items are not essential in any way and aren't actually needed to, like, "progress" or anything, they just make aimless building and boring exploring faster. The Wither is the same story; beacons can give you special abilities, but they're not actually essential. They just make playing this otherwise goalless game quicker. Also, the Wither was added in 1.4. We haven't gotten a new boss in nine years. NINE.
Minecraft at its core is just grinding to "progress" in a game with no goal. There's no point, no actual game to play and progress through. Again, a sandbox game can be a sandbox and still have things to do, like Terraria. Terraria is literally a sandbox; you can do whatever you want. But there are still bosses to beat and tiers to progress through. I haven't played the game myself, but from what I've seen, it clearly still has more substance than Minecraft. I think the quote "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" describes Minecraft perfectly. There are many blocks and mobs and structures and biomes, but in the End, it's based on nothing; there's nothing you can actually do, no game to play. Do you ever wonder why millions of people play with all these cool mods and modpacks, which greatly expand on the game, add new dimensions, et cetera? Because they offer actual content. A lot of people might argue that Minecraft is supposed to be a "platform", where the community makes the content. Firstly, Mojang themselves have states that they do not officially support mods, which is why we have not gotten, and will never get, a modding API. Secondly, really? Minecraft is still supposed to be a game with actual content itself. If you have to rely on modding to make your game actually good and substantial, then that's just unnacceptable.
My dumb rant is over. I will probably get a lot of hate for this, but I just wanted to vent. I'm just a little frustrated that the game has been in development for 10-12 years, and there's still barely any content. Again, this was not meant to be in bad faith, I just wanted to share my opinion on the game. What are your thoughts?
That's fair, minecraft doesn't really have that much in the way of a story and an average player can get to endgame content in a couple hours, but I think it would be a different game if it was heavily progess based. Personally I don't really play survival all that much, mostly I just build stuff these days as a way to relax and be creative, sure I could probably learn blender or do other forms of digital art, but minecraft is easier in a way. To me that's enough, but different strokes for different folks I guess.
Netherite is really pretty irrelevant now, maybe with the introduction of the warden and the deep dark people will have more of a reason to use it. I'm not sure if they've changed it but when they first announced it, the warden could kill a player in full netherite in three hits or so. That easily makes it the strongest enemy in the game so I can see the deep dark being more of an endgame area. I hope that they introduce some more lore with the deep dark though, that's always been lacking in my eyes.
The very reason for Minecraft's incredible success is that it has no set storyline - you decide how the game is to be played, as mentioned by countless sites which explain its popularity:
A bit of a rebuttal to the second quote - Minecraft has no real "ending" - the vast majority of my gameplay occurs long after I "beat" the game; the progression to the Ender Dragon is even entirely optional and I never did it in some of my worlds, and have never fought the Wither in Survival - the game only ends when you decide to stop playing on a world, and even then I've gone back to an older world up to 5 years after I originally stopped playing on it (I still have most of the worlds I've ever played on):
https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-java-edition/survival-mode/296770-themastercavers-world-version-1?comment=30
IMO, it sounds like you are better off playing games that have a set storyline/clear progression, and you are free to play any other game so there is no reason to be making this thread.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I can't understand why MineCraft is at fault here, and why IT is to blame when players have no intellect or imagination.
There are certain cultures around the world where life is so easy that people end up thinking that they will be spoon-fed for their entire lives, and not have to lift a finger to do anything. When players start complaining that games like MineCraft "don't have enough content" or are "boring", they are not highlighting a problem with MineCraft, they are highlighting a big problem with the society in which they live.
Minecraft is a game. Even if it is a "sandbox", it's still supposed to be an experience in itself. If I buy Half-Life 2, I expect there to be a story I can play through and complete. If I buy Terraria, I expect there to still be a game to play, outside of its inherent sandbox nature (which it has; bosses, tiers, an actual progressional experience you can play through).
Minecraft has nothing to offer. The sandbox front is all it's operating on, and all it has offered for 10+ years. It's fun for 4-year-olds, as they have much larger imaginations and can't get enough of the sandbox experience. But once you grow past 10 years old, there's nothing for you. Video games still have at least some point to them. What's the point of Minecraft? Build until you get bored? Loot the same structure you've looted a million times and seen a million more? Spend hours underground just strip mining for the same blue ore? An infinite sandbox where you can do whatever you want is just not enough. I want content, please.
I think it's completely possible for the game to remain a fundamental sandbox but still have an optional progression path. If you don't WANT to "progress" and just chill and build, you can do that. If you want to "progress" through the game and beat it, you should be able to do that, too. The "story" of the game doesn't even need to be that strict; it can be loose and still have freedom-based elements. All Minecraft needs is something to do, something substantial and with meaning.
Sometimes I feel kind of like that, where I just feel like there's not much to do. Sometimes I load my Minecraft world and leave it a couple minutes later because I just couldn't think of anything to do.
Although I do feel like Minecraft is entertaining to play most of the time when I'm doing things like exploring the world, building a house, and some other third thing; but I know what you're talking about.
I'm not calling for it to be heavily progress-based, though. I understand Minecraft is famous for its practically limitless sandbox front. The game can still be fundamentally a sandbox and still have an overarching progression system with new bosses and tiers and places to go. I don't want a strict story you have to go through; that would ruin the game, I agree. It can be optional and for players who want to go through it. We haven't gotten a new boss in nearly a decade, and it would be unbelievably cool if Minecraft actually started living up to its currently unearned "3D Terraria" image.
Find a mod that has a fixed storyline or purchase MC Dungeons.
Join a server that has roleplaying or start a youtube series doing so yourself.
You are limited only by your own imagination, Minecraft makes money off of being CYOA (choose your own adventure)
Minecraft can be more than that. The game is in sore need of actual content players can dip their toes in and an engaging progression system that keeps people in. Terraria runs off the same "you can do whatever you want, choose your own gameplay style" front, but it still has a dope story you can progress through with epic bosses and cool stuff you can do. It's a sandbox but still has a game you can play. Heck, remember Hytale? That's gonna be a sandbox game, but it's still gonna have stuff to do. I hate to say this as a heavy fan of Minecraft, but I think it's gonna blow Minecraft out of the park. Minecraft lacks the substance Terraria and other games have in the genre.
It's honestly kinda bad that I have to mod the game to get a worthwhile, meaningful experience out of it (outside of the sandbox, of course, it gets the sandbox portion right, but it should offer more than that imo). Minecraft needs to operate on more than just "do whatever you want". The game is aimless and lacks substance. Minecraft has so much potential but it's just being squandered.
I agree that netherite armour isn't needed to beat the game, it never was before, so why now? and it does essentially remove all challenge from survival, and it probably shouldn't be available on the harder difficulty modes, but I do have alternative ideas to this.
however I disagree that Minecraft needs a story, it's a sandbox, you make up your own adventure, if you don't appreciate that then that's what story mode is for, which is a separate game altogether, but is more or less what you're looking for.
and no offence, but as a sandbox, you're supposed to be able to build structures of your own design, so it makes sense why the shulker boxes and elytra were added, if they weren't then building would've been far more tedious than it is now, same thing with mining for the resources for that purpose.
Perhaps it could benefit from a more complex progression system, and more dimensions could be added, like for example, after you beat the Ender Dragon, you get a skeleton key, and this skeleton key can be used to activate a block you can pick up using silk touch, which you find in End cities which would then take you to another dimension that has more bosses in them, and hostile mobs that are much more dangerous, and that if you die in that world, they can pick up your stuff and you would have to get new gear. Also Twilight Forest mod showcases a dimension Minecraft could truly benefit from if it were in the vanilla game, it has castles, labyrinths and new creatures and wizards you can do battle against, as well as interesting loot.
Something like this, would make netherite armour more useful, as without netherite armour, you'd have no knockback resistance, so climbing tall structures in this new dimension would be risky.
Warden in 1.19 is going to make netherite armour more useful too, as I'm sure leather armour wouldn't do anything to protect you from him. I like the idea of Minecraft having OP enemies which while avoidable, you're not supposed to go near them, if you do, you do so at your own risk, this is a fair way to increase the challenge in survival, because if you die and lose important loot to enemies like this, then it's no one else's fault, you had the option to walk away but you chose to go toward the nigh undefeatable mob, and the biomes they exist in are rare, so.
Contrary to popular perception, Netherite is only slightly better than diamond and much weaker than diamond armor used to be - in 1.6.4 (before 1.9) diamond armor reduced damage by 80% no matter how much damage you take; a point-blank creeper explosion? No problem:
2 hearts? In the latest version you will die unless you enchant your armor; the increased "armor toughness" on Netherite doesn't come even close to offsetting armor penetration - even as creepers were nerfed (they used to do up to 73 damage on Hard, now only 64):https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Armor?file=Damage_dealt_v4.png
This shows that the damage taken by the player exceeds 20 well before the incoming damage reaches 64; in fact, you can only survive up to about 39 damage in full Netherite, which is just 3 more than full diamond, compared to 100 in older versions and less than the maximum damage (43) from a creeper on Normal difficulty! Even on Easy you'll lose over half your health (the only saving grace is that creepers stop moving about 3 blocks away, at which they deal about half their maximum damage, but you could still back into them or they are pushed by other mobs, they fall on you from a cliff, which also shortens their fuse from fall damage, etc).
Also, nobody uses leather armor not because it is hard to get but because it is literally worthless, only adding the equivalent of 1-2 extra health at the high end - even full iron only gives you 3-4 health against higher damage sources (it does increase to 2.5x health as damage nears 0; again, prior to 1.9 it was always this strong so it let you survive a single attack of up to 50 damage - around 30% more than full Netherite). At the least, armor penetration should not apply to all types of armor (if leather always provided full protection it would allow you to survive up to 27.7 damage at once, more than iron but iron is still much better against most mobs and lasts much longer); better yet, only specific attacks or weapons can penetrate armor, as they could before 1.9 (my own mod makes axes penetrate armor using the same formula as 1.9. Otherwise, you have status effects like Poison and Instant Harming, which are only affected by enchantments).
More of an issue are enchantments, which were greatly buffed in 1.9 - in earlier versions a full set of Protection IV reduced damage by a randomized 40-80% while since 1.9 it reduces damage by a constant 64%, meaning that the worst-case damage taken was reduced from 60% to 36%. Damage-specific enchantments are even stronger - a constant 80% as opposed to a randomized 52-80% (put another way, in 1.6.4 my armor only guarantees survival from a 44 block fall, while in current versions you can consistently survive a 102 block fall - and it doesn't even matter if you have leather or Netherite as only enchantments reduce fall damage).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I'm not so fond of wardens conceptually - maybe too used to 'plow or block off your way through everything'. But it could be the start to something
I could go to DOOM forums and complain how that game could be so much more if there were quests and character development and all that.
I could go to Skyrim forums and complain how that game could be so much more if I could dig my own tunnels through mountains or build castles of my own design. (Cookie-cutter Hearthfire houses don't count)
I could go to XCOM forums and complain how that game could be so much more if I could control my soldiers is FPS mode, blasting aliens real time instead of all this turn-based nonsense.
So you don't 'get' Minecraft. That's fine. Imagination is not a universal trait. You probably also have no idea what to do with a LEGO set after you followed the build instructions. There are millions of people who 'get' Minecraft and like it the way it is, without some convoluted 'story' or 'progression' getting in the way. Minecraft is doing quite well without them, WAY better than a lot of games with 'story' and 'progression'.
If Terraria is so much more up your alley, go play Terraria.
Me and friends use leather armour during early game when a world has just been started and it is the only thing available without mining or searching through Villager chests, our reasoning for this is because some protection is better than none, but once we've progressed to Iron beyond I agree, leather armour is practically worthless except for when you're going across powdered snow, in which case you need leather boots to safely traverse mountain tops with snow on them as of 1.18, and that's if your higher tier armour isn't fully enchanted yet.
Netherite's advantage is as a dropped item it will not be destroyed in lava as we discussed before,
and you get +2 knockback resistance per plate, this can prevent Hoglins from pushing you off a cliff in the Nether to certain doom below.
There isn't a huge durability or protection benefit otherwise as far as I am aware, but it does affect gameplay,
However I've been happy to use diamond armour for most of my mid to late game travels, same thing with my friend lizking10152011,
it offers enough protection against anything the Overworld can throw at you, except for Witches, where poison damage ignores armour and damages the player directly, which is how it is able to take you down to half a heart if the longest duration potion is thrown.
Whenever I get Netherite ingots, the first item I usually put it on including my current world is a pickaxe, because tools get most of the durability increase, it's roughly 25%, it's something from 1561, to 2031, which is quite a benefit and it's why I give tools priority with this material.
I'm actually content with using Iron armour to fight Ender Dragon, with all Protection 4 enchantments, as long as you're careful and don't allow yourself to get cornered in bunkers while dragon breath is fired at you, you can defeat the Dragon easily. You don't even need a totem of undying to do this, and it is also possible to beat the dragon without potions, although if you want to guarantee not dying even once, potions are advised.
Yes, you have every right to criticize games if they don't meet your standards. But I would like to mention that I completely disagree with your examples of opinions. DOOM isn't meant to be heavily story-based; it's a shooter where you progress through levels and just have fun shooting demons. Skyrim isn't meant to be a sandbox where you build castles and dig tunnels, it's a first-person, open-world fantasy RPG where you follow a story. I don't know about XCOM, I don't know what that is.
"Oh, well, Minecraft isn't MEANT to be story-based, it's just a sandbox, so your opinion is wrong." You might say.
Two points. Firstly, the difference between the games of your examples and Minecraft is that those games still have a game. Skyrim has a story that you progress through with bosses and strict leveling and progression of your power and abilities. DOOM involves progression through levels and a loose story you follow. I have no idea what XCOM I can safely assume it has essential components of a game. Minecraft, meanwhile, has no purpose to play it at all. It has two bosses, both of whom are not essential to beat and are not part of any game system actually worthwhile, and there hasn't been a new boss in nearly a decade. Player progression just doesn't exist; it's just an aimless, pointless sandbox with barely any sense of basic game structure. It's a purposeless, contentless game. It's fun for its sandbox, but once you get bored of that, which you will, unless you don't mind time-wasters, what is there you can really do? Games still need a purpose for them, no matter how tight or loose. They don't even have to be stories; there are retro-esque games out there with no strict story if any, but still have basic game progression (e.g. a 2D platformer with different levels that get increasingly difficult, a puzzle game that tests your brainpower, a simple shooter where you just blast enemies and progress).
Secondly, that's exactly what I'm against: its whole purpose is just "sandbox". There has to be more than that, that's pathetic. Terraria is a sandbox but still has epic bosses and cool gear you can equip and progression systems in place to assist players in preparing for fights and stuff. When you get bored of the basic sandbox, you can go out there and defeat Eldritch beings with your superpowered gear and progress in a vague "plot". Hytale is going to be a sandbox, but it's still going to seemingly have progression systems with cool dungeons and bosses to explore and defeat, with a general goal. What does Minecraft have?
Wow, it took them 9 years to add sea anemones to caves...Omg they're adding frogs in the next update!!!! OMG MOJANG you shouldn't have!!
If I sell you a collection of dust bunnies from my couch, and you start railing on me how they're not worth it and have no point to them, you're simply NOT getting it. You need your ~IMAGINATION~ to create things with those dust bunnies. They can all be arranged in an infinite orientation. It's literally LEGO if you think about it! Oh, well, I guess some just don't have the power of ~IMAGINATION~ to understand these dust bunnies.
The "story" does NOT have to be required. I thought I emphasized that, though I guess not enough. I understand the game is a sandbox, it can stay that way. What I advocate for is a game you CAN play and progress through. In Terraria, you don't really HAVE to beat the bosses, but you can, and most players DO do that because progression is entertaining and the reason why video games are even played in the first place. People today still try to beat the Ender Dragon, because their gamer senses tell them "hey, this is the end of the game, you can beat it!" when really the only purpose that fight serves is so you can access elytras and shulker shells.
I'm going to say this up front: Minecraft is not popular for it's "aimless" sandbox gameplay. Minecraft is popular BECAUSE IT'S MINECRAFT. It's the ultra gigachad game that EVERYONE plays and everyone KNOWS everyone plays, so they play it just cuz it's MiNeCrAfT.
There are a lot of games out there that rip off Minecraft in the sandbox genre. If the whole "Minecraft is popular cuz no purpose" narrative is true, then where are the masses of fans praising THOSE games. You can "do whatever you want" in those rip-offs, yet 5 minutes in and you're already bored. With Minecraft, it would be the same. To give credit where credit is due, Minecraft has 1000000x more content than them, and it's much harder to get bored of the game (I myself have periods where I actually have mild fun playing Minecraft), but it's still completely possible, and you will get bored eventually (unless you established an actual emotional connection to your world or you're a popular YouTuber who HAS to keep on playing if you don't want to lose your career).
"If you don't like the game, just don't play it!" How many times does the Internet have to make fun of this argument? I don't think you understand how much I love Minecraft and THAT'S the reason why I made this post.
I want to see it grow and succeed. But its potential is being squandered; with the eventual release of Hytale, it's probably going to blow Minecraft out of the park. It will have actual dungeons and bosses and cool things to do. Minecraft is truly an ocean that is as deep as a puddle. I adore it for its level of sandbox and showcase of how free a sandbox could be, but that's all it has to offer. I mention Terraria because it can serve as a good example of what Minecraft can be: a sandbox but still with cool, progressional stuff to do that can keep you entertained.
Sure, as long as this doesn't involve adding more annoying mechanics that result in griefed builds, I'm cool with a progression system.
Believe it or not many existing players who are playing Minecraft now not just myself, have put a lot of time, thought and work into their build designs and have taken full advantage of the sandbox aspect to achieve them. We'd hate to see that work being robbed from us, just because a few people wanted changes that don't really improve the game, but rather, make AI do something whitelisted servers aimed to prevent.
My 2 cents regarding this discussion.
I agree with drkpandalord». I believe, however, that there is a core reason why so many people, myself included, find minecraft terribly boring after a short while. The lack of CHALLENGE.
Game progression is too quick to a point in which you dont have to sweat or even take any kind of care to kill mobs, obtain resources (Fortune III, anyone?) or do nearly anything. Yes, the game has a lot of options to build and keep entertained - but many players demand CHALLENGE, and wont be satisfied with that if everything is too easy. The game fails in the aspect of not providing challenges worthy of a more advanced player, with advanced combat techniques and top-tier equipment/enchantments.
But if these changes are not made optional, and are forced on people who don't want them in the vanilla experience, this divides the Minecraft community even further than it already is, there are already endless spats going on these forums about what version people hate or like most.
This is exactly what makes mod packs so compelling (at least for the Java Edition). You can find mod packs that add additional advanced content with bigger challenges, with some mod packs being so brutal and unforgiving that would challenge even the most seasoned Minecraft players.
- sunperp