So there's a lot that's changed in Minecraft. But, when we go off of what Notch said, his biggest regret is introducing the half-block or the "slab" because of how it doubled the resolution of Minecraft. Now instead of having a 1x1 sized area we can go into more detail by cutting into these half-sized blocks.
It's weird to think how it may have caused a whole slew of changes throughout Minecraft's version history but I don't think it's too unfounded. It may not be the exact introduction of the slab itself but the philosophy behind it that sculpted Minecraft to be what it is today.
By that I mean things such as biome changes, new blocks, new terrain, new game mechanics, et cetera might have that same divide and conquer feel that slabs do. The game is just idefinitely growing more and more complex, and I argue slabs started this trend "into infinity".
Just look at Cave Game and compare it to what Minecraft is today in 2016. Obviously it's silly to say that all these updates are bad, they made the game as fun as it is today. But could it be that there was a purest form to Minecraft? Maybe it was in Beta or alpha, before the combat changed, before all the new slab types were added, before snow could be layered 8 times...
I know I'm sure sounding nostalgic. I mean, I still remember the days in early beta to alpha where there weren't even beds. You had to work through the night, no sleeping through it.
If the slab wouldn't have been added, Minecraft would've become a Qbert clone that allowed you to place blocks. Minecraft surely would've died out faster than Matt McConaughy's new movie (the one that cost 25 million to make but only grossed 3000).
It's a really interesting topic that's hard to put into words. Just imagine how alien a slab or stair block would be to a player who, for whatever reason, had only ever experienced full blocks.
I agree, imagine what would happen if we got 1/4th size blocks or something to that nature... The game would become even more complex in how building can be accomplished, but is that what we really want? I wager that there is some goldilocks place of not too complex but not too simple. Perhaps it is now after all Minecraft has become very successful.
I agree, imagine what would happen if we got 1/4th size blocks or something to that nature... The game would become even more complex in how building can be accomplished, but is that what we really want? I wager that there is some goldilocks place of not too complex but not too simple. Perhaps it is now after all Minecraft has become very successful.
Exactly—the reason that expert Minecraft builders get the huge attention that they do is because they are able to create magnificent pieces of work with the blocky materials that are provided. Slabs added to the amount of detail that a build could show, not to mention the plethora of other blocks that take up more than one blocks worth of space. To add a type of quarter block, or even eighth block would be specializing Minecraft for very detailed building, which takes away the value of builds.
It should be difficult to produce detailed builds in Minecraft, and slabs give easier access to it. However, I personally believe that slabs is as far as Minecraft should go with portions of blocks. As Nullatrum stated, the slabs are a "goldilocks" situation. They make it possible for greater detail, but any further would be too much.
In other fields outside of build detail, I wonder then how this effect trickled into things like redstone or command blocks. I know there are still lots of people who look at command blocks in a not so positive light. They really opened the flood gates for what you can do with things like adventure maps or servers thanks to command blocks, or even just how versatile resource packs have become, as well.
Some people just don't like change. I know because I'm of those people, but the thing that separates me from the others is that I accept the fact that change happens, and the sooner everyone realizes it the better. Nothing stays the same forever, especially in Minecraft, where it is a game of change. Just because I might not support the addition of quarter blocks doesn't mean that I won't accept that they exist in Minecraft. The players find new and creative ways to use Minecraft's fresh material, and though I am nostalgic, I know that the players will always find the bright side of change, and I hope that it is embraced in all shapes and forms.
Don't get me wrong—I loved the implementation of half-slabs through and through.
If the slab wouldn't have been added, Minecraft would've become a Qbert clone that allowed you to place blocks. Minecraft surely would've died out faster than Matt McConaughy's new movie (the one that cost 25 million to make but only grossed 3000).
Not exactly.. It's hard to know exactly what would happen, but almost definitely not this. If slabs are as important to the game as you say, it never would've gotten at all popular. It wasn't at all, really, before slabs were added, and if they're that important, then it couldn't get so without them. And also.. I think slabs weren't that important. They're nice and useful in building, but not really the big thing. Beds, pistons, and hatches were all much more major additions. Slabs are something people, in my opinion, would never think about suggesting. Or if they were suggested, would be heavily shot down by other users as uncreative and stupid. Why would you come up with just cutting a normal block in half? You might as well come up with a creeper that lives in the nether and the only difference is that it's red, and its name is Nether Creeper. Oh, yeah, it drops a special red sulfur that is used to make a different TNT. And also.. You're speaking from the point of view after slabs are added. You have seen their uses, and know how widely valuable they are. If they weren't added, people would never have found all these uses, and so noone would complain that they couldn't do X or Y that they can with slabs. It's like missing something you've never experienced.
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Someone once said, in defense of a poorly thought out suggestion that was not being supported: "Theres so much awesome and rare things to add and youre just like, oh , thats too good, no, i want something common like a grass block"
Not exactly.. It's hard to know exactly what would happen, but almost definitely not this. If slabs are as important to the game as you say, it never would've gotten at all popular. It wasn't at all, really, before slabs were added, and if they're that important, then it couldn't get so without them. And also.. I think slabs weren't that important. They're nice and useful in building, but not really the big thing. Beds, pistons, and hatches were all much more major additions. Slabs are something people, in my opinion, would never think about suggesting. Or if they were suggested, would be heavily shot down by other users as uncreative and stupid. Why would you come up with just cutting a normal block in half? You might as well come up with a creeper that lives in the nether and the only difference is that it's red, and its name is Nether Creeper. Oh, yeah, it drops a special red sulfur that is used to make a different TNT. And also.. You're speaking from the point of view after slabs are added. You have seen their uses, and know how widely valuable they are. If they weren't added, people would never have found all these uses, and so noone would complain that they couldn't do X or Y that they can with slabs. It's like missing something you've never experienced.
That's an interesting analogy. I also like to imagine how people would react to a slab suggestion today, as if it didn't exist. Oh how that would go
Can you post a source for your Notch comment? I had not heard this before. Are you sure his regret wasn't because slabs had changed the visual detail of the world, but instead that it made coding more difficult and possibly hurt game rendering performance?
Exactly—the reason that expert Minecraft builders get the huge attention that they do is because they are able to create magnificent pieces of work with the blocky materials that are provided. Slabs added to the amount of detail that a build could show, not to mention the plethora of other blocks that take up more than one blocks worth of space. To add a type of quarter block, or even eighth block would be specializing Minecraft for very detailed building, which takes away the value of builds.
It should be difficult to produce detailed builds in Minecraft, and slabs give easier access to it. However, I personally believe that slabs is as far as Minecraft should go with portions of blocks. As Nullatrum stated, the slabs are a "goldilocks" situation. They make it possible for greater detail, but any further would be too much.
I couldn't disagree more, but instead of updating a system to allow for defining ever-smaller blocks (ie, instead of a 1-meter grid we moved to a 0.25 meter grid, with full blocks taking up 16 blockspaces instead of 1) we should allow for direct customization of blocks.
In modded minecraft, there are 2 types of block customization. One was spawned by mods such as Carpenter's Blocks or Forge Multipart, which limits you to the 1-meter field but simultaneously gives you a whole palette of different shapes and/or sizes. Other mods that add their own blocks usually follow this school of design by offering the typical stair, slab, and other things one expects for a given material. The other was spawned by Terrafirmacraft and more recent mods such as Chisels n Bits. With a ton of effort, you can create an entire block palette of completely custom blocks that transcend instead of replace the 1-meter grid.
As for Notch's comments on slabs (I'd heard it referenced, don't recall if I've ever seen the actual comment), I took it to mean how it was implemented in that they're still considered full blocks and therefore stuff that interacts with block boundaries act funny (ie, liquids not flowing around/through fences, different slabs being placed 1 block above the bottom slab).
Can you post a source for your Notch comment? I had not heard this before. Are you sure his regret wasn't because slabs had changed the visual detail of the world, but instead that it made coding more difficult and possibly hurt game rendering performance?
Here are two, they both reference the same interview.
The basic texture is a half block is surely less burdensome to render than a written sign, a wall hanging, armor stand or filled flowerpot. I would say there is room for more complex player crafted blocks, because the player can judge how much a drag on performance.
That's interesting but how much does the drag on performance from a certian kind of block really play into effect? Wouldn't you need lots and lots of sign entities for the game to freak out?
That would be cool if note blocks could be more in depth, but I think it's hilarious to see the old, huge, long redstone contraptions to make note block songs.
I don't know that I can agree with you about new block types increasing the complexity all that much I think of them as providing more diversity within the existing paradigm. Obviously halfslabs did increase the complexity a bit but no more than say redstone/droppers/command blocks etc which are part of what I consider bedrock (no relation) features.
Also on a not-really-related note you have to admit halfslab classic is one mighty fine looking block, nothing else quite looks as snappy as well executed halfslab
Since Notch limited the expansion of fire I feel like the game has lost much of that naked-in-the-face-of-natures-wrath feel. Now if a fire starts where you didn't intend for a fire to start its at best a minor inconvenience, but fire used to be fire and if it started where it wasn't supposed to be you had seconds to get it stamped out before it turned into full blown "You fool, what have you done?! Martha get the children! Run! Run for your lives!" and all that would remain afterwords was devastation. You got to be one of those people you see in news coverage of disasters desultorily picking through the remains of their lives in the vain hope something valuable would be left.
I think what my esteemed colleague meant to say is that you got[/i] to work through the night, every[/i] night.
I mean, the way it was or "felt" like (not to seem like "omg new MC is for babies") wast how hard it was to survive in hard mode. It might just be the bias of noobiness, however.
Eh. Slabs are pretty handy to be honest. This coming from a modern builder. Though I can still understand to a degree where some of you are coming from. I only tend to have an issue with slabs when they're mindlessly spammed in another god forsaken medieval build.
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Buddy, that's builds in general. Have you seen modern builds? Most are just big cubes of some block - often times iron - with a slab ring around the top.
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Someone once said, in defense of a poorly thought out suggestion that was not being supported: "Theres so much awesome and rare things to add and youre just like, oh , thats too good, no, i want something common like a grass block"
I was under the impression that the more detailed a block is the more GPU drag it causes. Haven't done any tests, but my hypothesis would be, in terms of GPU drag from lowest to highest, something like block<slab<hopper
Ahem, note that we do in fact have smaller blocks: Snow layers can be stacked in 1/8th-block increments. And there's carpets. I like slabs and stairs, I wish you could make them out of more materials. Especially, I'd like to see stairs (and walls) of the new stone types.
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I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
It's weird to think how it may have caused a whole slew of changes throughout Minecraft's version history but I don't think it's too unfounded. It may not be the exact introduction of the slab itself but the philosophy behind it that sculpted Minecraft to be what it is today.
By that I mean things such as biome changes, new blocks, new terrain, new game mechanics, et cetera might have that same divide and conquer feel that slabs do. The game is just idefinitely growing more and more complex, and I argue slabs started this trend "into infinity".
Just look at Cave Game and compare it to what Minecraft is today in 2016. Obviously it's silly to say that all these updates are bad, they made the game as fun as it is today. But could it be that there was a purest form to Minecraft? Maybe it was in Beta or alpha, before the combat changed, before all the new slab types were added, before snow could be layered 8 times...
I know I'm sure sounding nostalgic. I mean, I still remember the days in early beta to alpha where there weren't even beds. You had to work through the night, no sleeping through it.
What do you think?
If the slab wouldn't have been added, Minecraft would've become a Qbert clone that allowed you to place blocks. Minecraft surely would've died out faster than Matt McConaughy's new movie (the one that cost 25 million to make but only grossed 3000).
I agree, imagine what would happen if we got 1/4th size blocks or something to that nature... The game would become even more complex in how building can be accomplished, but is that what we really want? I wager that there is some goldilocks place of not too complex but not too simple. Perhaps it is now after all Minecraft has become very successful.
Exactly—the reason that expert Minecraft builders get the huge attention that they do is because they are able to create magnificent pieces of work with the blocky materials that are provided. Slabs added to the amount of detail that a build could show, not to mention the plethora of other blocks that take up more than one blocks worth of space. To add a type of quarter block, or even eighth block would be specializing Minecraft for very detailed building, which takes away the value of builds.
It should be difficult to produce detailed builds in Minecraft, and slabs give easier access to it. However, I personally believe that slabs is as far as Minecraft should go with portions of blocks. As Nullatrum stated, the slabs are a "goldilocks" situation. They make it possible for greater detail, but any further would be too much.
In other fields outside of build detail, I wonder then how this effect trickled into things like redstone or command blocks. I know there are still lots of people who look at command blocks in a not so positive light. They really opened the flood gates for what you can do with things like adventure maps or servers thanks to command blocks, or even just how versatile resource packs have become, as well.
Some people just don't like change. I know because I'm of those people, but the thing that separates me from the others is that I accept the fact that change happens, and the sooner everyone realizes it the better. Nothing stays the same forever, especially in Minecraft, where it is a game of change. Just because I might not support the addition of quarter blocks doesn't mean that I won't accept that they exist in Minecraft. The players find new and creative ways to use Minecraft's fresh material, and though I am nostalgic, I know that the players will always find the bright side of change, and I hope that it is embraced in all shapes and forms.
Don't get me wrong—I loved the implementation of half-slabs through and through.
Not exactly.. It's hard to know exactly what would happen, but almost definitely not this. If slabs are as important to the game as you say, it never would've gotten at all popular. It wasn't at all, really, before slabs were added, and if they're that important, then it couldn't get so without them. And also.. I think slabs weren't that important. They're nice and useful in building, but not really the big thing. Beds, pistons, and hatches were all much more major additions. Slabs are something people, in my opinion, would never think about suggesting. Or if they were suggested, would be heavily shot down by other users as uncreative and stupid. Why would you come up with just cutting a normal block in half? You might as well come up with a creeper that lives in the nether and the only difference is that it's red, and its name is Nether Creeper. Oh, yeah, it drops a special red sulfur that is used to make a different TNT. And also.. You're speaking from the point of view after slabs are added. You have seen their uses, and know how widely valuable they are. If they weren't added, people would never have found all these uses, and so noone would complain that they couldn't do X or Y that they can with slabs. It's like missing something you've never experienced.
Someone once said, in defense of a poorly thought out suggestion that was not being supported: "Theres so much awesome and rare things to add and youre just like, oh , thats too good, no, i want something common like a grass block"
That's an interesting analogy. I also like to imagine how people would react to a slab suggestion today, as if it didn't exist. Oh how that would go
Can you post a source for your Notch comment? I had not heard this before. Are you sure his regret wasn't because slabs had changed the visual detail of the world, but instead that it made coding more difficult and possibly hurt game rendering performance?
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
I couldn't disagree more, but instead of updating a system to allow for defining ever-smaller blocks (ie, instead of a 1-meter grid we moved to a 0.25 meter grid, with full blocks taking up 16 blockspaces instead of 1) we should allow for direct customization of blocks.
In modded minecraft, there are 2 types of block customization. One was spawned by mods such as Carpenter's Blocks or Forge Multipart, which limits you to the 1-meter field but simultaneously gives you a whole palette of different shapes and/or sizes. Other mods that add their own blocks usually follow this school of design by offering the typical stair, slab, and other things one expects for a given material. The other was spawned by Terrafirmacraft and more recent mods such as Chisels n Bits. With a ton of effort, you can create an entire block palette of completely custom blocks that transcend instead of replace the 1-meter grid.
As for Notch's comments on slabs (I'd heard it referenced, don't recall if I've ever seen the actual comment), I took it to mean how it was implemented in that they're still considered full blocks and therefore stuff that interacts with block boundaries act funny (ie, liquids not flowing around/through fences, different slabs being placed 1 block above the bottom slab).
Here are two, they both reference the same interview.
http://kotaku.com/5893299/notch-says-he-doesnt-just-change-minecraft-because-he-feels-like-it
http://www.shacknews.com/article/72822/minecraft-creator-notch-chats-about-design-regrets-and-piracy
I know there's a video source, too, somewhere but I'm having trouble finding it now
That's interesting but how much does the drag on performance from a certian kind of block really play into effect? Wouldn't you need lots and lots of sign entities for the game to freak out?
That would be cool if note blocks could be more in depth, but I think it's hilarious to see the old, huge, long redstone contraptions to make note block songs.
I don't know that I can agree with you about new block types increasing the complexity all that much I think of them as providing more diversity within the existing paradigm. Obviously halfslabs did increase the complexity a bit but no more than say redstone/droppers/command blocks etc which are part of what I consider bedrock (no relation) features.
Also on a not-really-related note you have to admit halfslab classic is one mighty fine looking block, nothing else quite looks as snappy as well executed halfslab
Since Notch limited the expansion of fire I feel like the game has lost much of that naked-in-the-face-of-natures-wrath feel. Now if a fire starts where you didn't intend for a fire to start its at best a minor inconvenience, but fire used to be fire and if it started where it wasn't supposed to be you had seconds to get it stamped out before it turned into full blown "You fool, what have you done?! Martha get the children! Run! Run for your lives!" and all that would remain afterwords was devastation. You got to be one of those people you see in news coverage of disasters desultorily picking through the remains of their lives in the vain hope something valuable would be left.
I think what my esteemed colleague meant to say is that you got to work through the night, every night.
I mean, the way it was or "felt" like (not to seem like "omg new MC is for babies") wast how hard it was to survive in hard mode. It might just be the bias of noobiness, however.
Eh. Slabs are pretty handy to be honest. This coming from a modern builder. Though I can still understand to a degree where some of you are coming from. I only tend to have an issue with slabs when they're mindlessly spammed in another god forsaken medieval build.
Figured it was time for a change.
Oh thank god it's not just me who feels this way towards medieval builds. Don't get me wrong they can be done right, but there's so many done wrong!
Buddy, that's builds in general. Have you seen modern builds? Most are just big cubes of some block - often times iron - with a slab ring around the top.
Someone once said, in defense of a poorly thought out suggestion that was not being supported: "Theres so much awesome and rare things to add and youre just like, oh , thats too good, no, i want something common like a grass block"
I was under the impression that the more detailed a block is the more GPU drag it causes. Haven't done any tests, but my hypothesis would be, in terms of GPU drag from lowest to highest, something like block<slab<hopper
Ahem, note that we do in fact have smaller blocks: Snow layers can be stacked in 1/8th-block increments. And there's carpets. I like slabs and stairs, I wish you could make them out of more materials. Especially, I'd like to see stairs (and walls) of the new stone types.