Way to fix something that isnt broken, they must have been goverment employees before they were mojang
But it is broken. They are losing control of the core game they created. I am surprised it did not happen earlier with all the cracked and hacked servers out there.
I think the vast majority know exactly what may happen. They also know the reason why it would happen. This whole situation is forcing attention on an existing facet which often is ignored or downplayed. If a player is willing to throw money at a server in exchange for stuff but refuse to do so (even a lesser amount) when they get no tangible reward then that player doesn't really care about the server or its community. They care about the stuff they can get and the advantages that come with it. If another server offered the same or better you'd find precious little in the way of loyalty from these. This is their right as a player and it's not inherently good or bad. It's just reality.
If someone really cares about a particular server and finds it valuable to themselves and/or others they'll donate, perks or no. If there is some case where they can't do anything monetary they will find some way to support, even if it's something like volunteering to help out new players once in a while or find others who might be willing to donate/sponsor. You'd be surprised how many players (and even other people) are willing to contribute, once they understand the importance and value.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Spigot/CraftBukkit plugins: TallNether - Generate a 256-block high nether
Personally I think this is a REALLY good thing!! Thank you Mojang! I really like the idea of equality on all servers! I was seriously getting upset and sick of the pay-to-win aspect on servers, especially KitPvP. Seriously, it's really annoying that there are donators with god kits running around, destroying everyone but each other on all servers. So glad it's about to change! Can't wait, so excited!! Thank you once again Mojang.
ok yeah i hate that to but what most of you here don't understand is that ALL THE SERVERS you play on are gone! bye bye to mineplex, mcpvp, hypixel GONE POOF! why mojang WHY!
ok yeah i hate that to but what most of you here don't understand is that ALL THE SERVERS you play on are gone! bye bye to mineplex, mcpvp, hypixel GONE POOF! why mojang WHY!
Sheesh, quit with that drama, that is a complete exaggeration. Many if not most "pay" server will have to change what they charge for, but the updated EULA leaves plenty of room for folks to not only pay their server bills, but actually make money.
*sigh* I'm rejoining the debate in the middle, but seriously, I think that Mojang overreacted, and as some people have said, the crooked servers will keep doing what they're doing anyway. Or get worse. This is an overreach on Mojang's part...Unenforceable EULA much. But anywho, I really think none of this makes sense for Mojang to do. There were much more moderate solutions out there. Like actually asking the community to weigh in. Or, even, 'gasp' actually not going from *no wars on the horizon* to *throwing antimatter bombs*.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Weird Things Mods Say When Booting
[Client thread/INFO] [TConstruct]: Natura, what are we going to do tomorrow night?
[Client thread/INFO] [Natura]: TConstruct, we're going to take over the world!
[Client thread/INFO] [inpure|core]: Beating Minecraft's resource loading system with a shovel. Please stand by...
[Client thread/INFO] [MagicBees]: Replacing stupid-block with 'Here, have some delicious textures' ItemBlock. This is 100% normal.
*double epicfail* Well, that was strange. I thought my post had not gone through and it actually had. Well, here's what I attempted to rewrite, just for grins.
*epicfail* Well, I was trying to reply and when I hit the button my content went missing.
Attempt 2 of 2:
I'm rejoining the debate in the middle, but I really think Mojang went for the antimatter bombs instead of this thing known as talking to the community. This is going to impact the law-abiding servers more than the crooked ones, because compliance is still bloody well voluntary. Mojang has not made a single noise about enforcement. STILL. Hello? Anyone? No?
But seriously, only the law-abiding folks get shafted by this, the crooked servers will, as someone said earlier, keep doing what they're doing, or get worse whilst appearing to comply. ((Do servers even have ToSes?))
And, do most of the smaller servers even have ToSes? ((It's in the blockquote but I know some people skip them.))
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Weird Things Mods Say When Booting
[Client thread/INFO] [TConstruct]: Natura, what are we going to do tomorrow night?
[Client thread/INFO] [Natura]: TConstruct, we're going to take over the world!
[Client thread/INFO] [inpure|core]: Beating Minecraft's resource loading system with a shovel. Please stand by...
[Client thread/INFO] [MagicBees]: Replacing stupid-block with 'Here, have some delicious textures' ItemBlock. This is 100% normal.
I think the vast majority know exactly what may happen. They also know the reason why it would happen. This whole situation is forcing attention on an existing facet which often is ignored or downplayed. If a player is willing to throw money at a server in exchange for stuff but refuse to do so (even a lesser amount) when they get no tangible reward then that player doesn't really care about the server or its community. They care about the stuff they can get and the advantages that come with it. If another server offered the same or better you'd find precious little in the way of loyalty from these. This is their right as a player and it's not inherently good or bad. It's just reality.
If someone really cares about a particular server and finds it valuable to themselves and/or others they'll donate, perks or no. If there is some case where they can't do anything monetary they will find some way to support, even if it's something like volunteering to help out new players once in a while or find others who might be willing to donate/sponsor. You'd be surprised how many players (and even other people) are willing to contribute, once they understand the importance and value.
It's called the bystander effect. Everyone just stands around and hopes someone else will pitch in. A few people may take responsibility, but not enough. Servers cost thousands of dollars to maintain, and if they don't have enough funding to make ends meet, poof. Your online experience is eviscerated and Mojang has to start all over again with their next game. Maybe it'll also be blocky.
I don't see what's so bad about this. Sure you don't get the OP kits with the protection 99999999 Diamond armor and sharpness 99999999 sword, but this brings an advantage to NON donors as they can be the same level as a donor (beides maybe a fancier name and a command like /hat and /me). I personally, as one who can't donate, thinks that this equality EULA change is DEFINITELY helpful.
I can honestly not see how anyone woudn't agree with this. How much of an idiot do you have to be to think this is going to "ruin" all servers? It's pathetic that some people think it's okay to practically sell content of a game they don't own. Sad because the servers can no longer make money? Well that's good because they weren't supposed to anyway. "Running" a Minecraft server is not a job, and you do not deserve to make any money from selling ranks, perks, and whatever else. The terrible way servers are run made me quit playing the multiplayer version, it's annoying and shouldn't have happened in the first place. Also if I read it right, those terms were always in the EULA? Regardless, it's about time.
Server owners do a lot more crap then you all think. The people who purchase our ranks (most do, some don't) know that it's mostly to support the server.
Here are a few arguments I've seen here and on /r/minecraft, and I'll try and refute them:
But it's cheap! I saw a server online that costs $X!
It's not. Time is one resource, and there are other costs (other than hosting) that come up. Most players will happily consume the server (and we're happy that they are on, because they are indirectly supporting it!) without purchasing a rank, and that's fine. Most server owners and administrators want to give something back for supporting it (even it is for the /fly, kits or whatever).
You can run one from home! It doesn't cost anything!
Unless your paying for really good internet, DDoS protection, or a server that can support more than just a few players.
What about the children who are taking credit cards?
Even disregarding the fact that children shouldn't be taking their parent's credit cards, most server owners are resonable with refunds and payments.
Because people were selling things that are the property of Mojang, that's why.
Hmm...a <username>.dat isn't property of Mojang? If you say it is, you mine as well say the anything saved using the .psd format is property of Adobe.
I can't restrict the client's ability to render a diamond sword or signal to the server that I wanted to move in a certian direction.
...a bunch of rumors how they'll disable authentication...
They threatened that to some auth system (I think for the technic pack or something like that). No follow through..but even if they did, there'd be plenty of ways to get around it.
This turns in to an game of cat and mouse, and it'd probably be a hell of a list to try and maintain.
I don't see what's so bad about this. Sure you don't get the OP kits with the protection 99999999 Diamond armor and sharpness 99999999 sword, but this brings an advantage to NON donors as they can be the same level as a donor (beides maybe a fancier name and a command like /hat and /me). I personally, as one who can't donate, thinks that this equality EULA change is DEFINITELY helpful.
Sorry, but it'll probably just widen the gap between people who don't purchase stuff and do. You're probably not going to be leveled off as everyone else.
And what is it with capes?
Seriously, are they just trying to off as many sectors of the MC community as they can, because what, they like creating them?
Are we allowed to sell perms for the use of high intensity plugins such as world edit?
I know this could count as gameplay however firstly it doesn't give anyone an advantage over anyone, just saves people time. And secondly the extra resources needed from these people who have world edit is an awful lot, without the donations from people buying world edit most servers won't be able to pay for their hosting as they require such expensive servers for this; I know this from experience. I'd appreciate if you could properly consider these certain exceptions and to understand that not all servers will be able to support themselves with the general rules.
Thanks in advance.
World edit is a game changer. It completely affects how you build stuff and the quickness. Therefore is not an exception for selling perms.
the funny thing about this EULA is that Mojang is trying to tell people they cannot sell content they created. It would be one thing if people were selling access to normal gameplay features of Minecraft, but saying that it's "unfair" that they restrict access to content that they put hours of their own work in to is beyond ridiculous.
No, your not understanding the concept of the EULA... Your basically saying that on your server you would charge people to have permissions on world edit... That whole concept of EULA is to prevent Pay to win. Worldedit is a HUGE advantage if you have to pay for it especially if there are people in your server that either CAN'T pay for it.
Therefore its still unfair and that is where everyone has to have access to world edit.
That EULA didn't go far enough. It should have forbidden using actually words such as donation or contribution when ANYTHING is given back. Otherwise those transactions are actual purchases, plain and simple. And allow purchases only if the server is actually part of the actual tax system of the coutnry it is based in. i.e. you make a purchase, you get to SEE the tax codes for that companyand how much tax you pay on your purchase, and the total.
In other words: i can use a 3rd party OFFICIAL government website to checkm using it's tax code number, if that company exist, and thus I have some form of legal recourse in case I get scammed . True cash transaction REQUIRE to have at least that amount of customer protection. It works a LOT better than a website itself merely just saying "we do respect our privacy" and basically asking people to take them at their words.
BTW if I'm in Canada and purchase something in the USA, I have to pay both CAD and USD taxes. Fun. But globalization is slowly taking care of that (too slowly, yeah).
.
so basically I agree that this would put down a lot of servers which currently operate totally under the radar of the law. The real law, not Mojang's EULA. Hopefully that would force the average quality of what would be left to increase dramatically and become true businesses instead of a lot of Garage Joes with server farms.
Because frankly, letting my PC run 24-7 would just cost me a bit more electricity. 400 Watts at 7 cents per kilowatt-hour = only 20$ of electricity per month. Maybe you'll go through an extra hard disk faster than normal whoopedoo what is that +2$ per month ? Because you use a dedicated small cheap HD just the right size/performance/cost, not your brand new 3TB 1000$ hi-tech drive. And it's not as if Minecraft requires a lot of bandwidth too. Anyway, it is only +10$ per month for my high speed internet access to also become unlimited. So yeah, only monster servers have higher costs.
The situation if all those server owners being sooo outraged is much like merchants owners on the underground merchant street being outraged because suddenly the law tries to regulate their business. It's going to fall on deaf ears because utlimately the biggest culprits know what they were doing was wrong.
The only point I'm willing to concede is that this move comes suspiciously at the same time Realms has started cruising. But a bit of analysis shows that this move came from the sheer abuse of a few big P2W servers which impacted directly Mojang (angry customers calling Mojang support).
Anyway, P2W is SO UGLY it should die die DIE forever.
No, your not understanding the concept of the EULA... Your basically saying that on your server you would charge people to have permissions on world edit... That whole concept of EULA is to prevent Pay to win. Worldedit is a HUGE advantage if you have to pay for it especially if there are people in your server that either CAN'T pay for it.
Therefore its still unfair and that is where everyone has to have access to world edit.
You're being completely unreasonable though. Just imagine what it would be like if everyone had access to worldedit. You want to construct something cool? Too bad, not only is it so lag-intensive because everyone is using it that it becomes unfeasible to use, but that jerk griefer could go around cutting out everyone's creation and there's not a thing you can do about it.
Worldedit is not an advantage, it is a helpful tool for people who like big projects, but it is quite possible and reasonable for someone without worldedit to construct the same things, it just takes longer.
So you now have a tool that isn't that big of an advantage but will, and it is not merely a possibility but a guaranteed, wreak havoc on the server if everyone has it, and you're saying that it shouldn't be restricted? That's either very naive or you really want to make a replica of the starship Enterprise without paying for worldedit commands.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
You're being completely unreasonable though. Just imagine what it would be like if everyone had access to worldedit. You want to construct something cool? Too bad, not only is it so lag-intensive because everyone is using it that it becomes unfeasible to use, but that jerk griefer could go around cutting out everyone's creation and there's not a thing you can do about it.
Worldedit is not an advantage, it is a helpful tool for people who like big projects, but it is quite possible and reasonable for someone without worldedit to construct the same things, it just takes longer.
So you now have a tool that isn't that big of an advantage but will, and it is not merely a possibility but a guaranteed, wreak havoc on the server if everyone has it, and you're saying that it shouldn't be restricted? That's either very naive or you really want to make a replica of the starship Enterprise without paying for worldedit commands.
First off, i didn't say give everyone worldedit, i said you cannot charge for world edit. That is what the EULA is about. Whether you want to shave a few hours off a build with worldedit is not the point. Thats like saying i can save a bunch of time with Treecapitator. Any outside mod that helps you in anyway should not be charged for as it gives other people advantages some people can't either afford or purchase.
EULA is amazing as it evens the fairness of Minecraft on servers. I could care less if you can buy kits and what not because i dont play factions. I would actually much prefer cosmetic purchases then i would buying a perk/item that ruins the vanilla feel of the game.
As for the worldedit grief, you obviously would have rules and regulations and some sort of grief protection if you made a fair server where everyone can use worldedit. Also i like how you are calling me naive when you didnt even mention anything about rules along side everyone having worldedit.
I LOVE worldedit, but i would rather it be fair instead of me being able to purchase it, thats my point.
But it is broken. They are losing control of the core game they created. I am surprised it did not happen earlier with all the cracked and hacked servers out there.
If someone really cares about a particular server and finds it valuable to themselves and/or others they'll donate, perks or no. If there is some case where they can't do anything monetary they will find some way to support, even if it's something like volunteering to help out new players once in a while or find others who might be willing to donate/sponsor. You'd be surprised how many players (and even other people) are willing to contribute, once they understand the importance and value.
My Spigot/CraftBukkit plugins:
TallNether - Generate a 256-block high nether
FarLandsAgain - Restores the Far Lands
User: *BOOM* You're dead.
Cleverbot: I divide by zero and come back as an angel ninja.
ok yeah i hate that to but what most of you here don't understand is that ALL THE SERVERS you play on are gone! bye bye to mineplex, mcpvp, hypixel GONE POOF! why mojang WHY!
Sheesh, quit with that drama, that is a complete exaggeration. Many if not most "pay" server will have to change what they charge for, but the updated EULA leaves plenty of room for folks to not only pay their server bills, but actually make money.
[Client thread/INFO] [Natura]: TConstruct, we're going to take over the world!
And, do most of the smaller servers even have ToSes? ((It's in the blockquote but I know some people skip them.))
[Client thread/INFO] [Natura]: TConstruct, we're going to take over the world!
It's called the bystander effect. Everyone just stands around and hopes someone else will pitch in. A few people may take responsibility, but not enough. Servers cost thousands of dollars to maintain, and if they don't have enough funding to make ends meet, poof. Your online experience is eviscerated and Mojang has to start all over again with their next game. Maybe it'll also be blocky.
Agreed
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Curse Premiumhttps://www.change.org/petitions/mojang-do-not-go-through-with-the-eula#share
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Curse PremiumHere are a few arguments I've seen here and on /r/minecraft, and I'll try and refute them:
It's not. Time is one resource, and there are other costs (other than hosting) that come up. Most players will happily consume the server (and we're happy that they are on, because they are indirectly supporting it!) without purchasing a rank, and that's fine. Most server owners and administrators want to give something back for supporting it (even it is for the /fly, kits or whatever).
Unless your paying for really good internet, DDoS protection, or a server that can support more than just a few players.
Even disregarding the fact that children shouldn't be taking their parent's credit cards, most server owners are resonable with refunds and payments.
Hmm...a <username>.dat isn't property of Mojang? If you say it is, you mine as well say the anything saved using the .psd format is property of Adobe.
I can't restrict the client's ability to render a diamond sword or signal to the server that I wanted to move in a certian direction.
They threatened that to some auth system (I think for the technic pack or something like that). No follow through..but even if they did, there'd be plenty of ways to get around it.
This turns in to an game of cat and mouse, and it'd probably be a hell of a list to try and maintain.
Sorry, but it'll probably just widen the gap between people who don't purchase stuff and do. You're probably not going to be leveled off as everyone else.
And what is it with capes?
Seriously, are they just trying to off as many sectors of the MC community as they can, because what, they like creating them?
There is a great thing at http://sterlingplays.com/. You should see it if you haven't already.
World edit is a game changer. It completely affects how you build stuff and the quickness. Therefore is not an exception for selling perms.
No, your not understanding the concept of the EULA... Your basically saying that on your server you would charge people to have permissions on world edit... That whole concept of EULA is to prevent Pay to win. Worldedit is a HUGE advantage if you have to pay for it especially if there are people in your server that either CAN'T pay for it.
Therefore its still unfair and that is where everyone has to have access to world edit.
In other words: i can use a 3rd party OFFICIAL government website to checkm using it's tax code number, if that company exist, and thus I have some form of legal recourse in case I get scammed . True cash transaction REQUIRE to have at least that amount of customer protection. It works a LOT better than a website itself merely just saying "we do respect our privacy" and basically asking people to take them at their words.
BTW if I'm in Canada and purchase something in the USA, I have to pay both CAD and USD taxes. Fun. But globalization is slowly taking care of that (too slowly, yeah).
.
so basically I agree that this would put down a lot of servers which currently operate totally under the radar of the law. The real law, not Mojang's EULA. Hopefully that would force the average quality of what would be left to increase dramatically and become true businesses instead of a lot of Garage Joes with server farms.
Because frankly, letting my PC run 24-7 would just cost me a bit more electricity. 400 Watts at 7 cents per kilowatt-hour = only 20$ of electricity per month. Maybe you'll go through an extra hard disk faster than normal whoopedoo what is that +2$ per month ? Because you use a dedicated small cheap HD just the right size/performance/cost, not your brand new 3TB 1000$ hi-tech drive. And it's not as if Minecraft requires a lot of bandwidth too. Anyway, it is only +10$ per month for my high speed internet access to also become unlimited. So yeah, only monster servers have higher costs.
The situation if all those server owners being sooo outraged is much like merchants owners on the underground merchant street being outraged because suddenly the law tries to regulate their business. It's going to fall on deaf ears because utlimately the biggest culprits know what they were doing was wrong.
The only point I'm willing to concede is that this move comes suspiciously at the same time Realms has started cruising. But a bit of analysis shows that this move came from the sheer abuse of a few big P2W servers which impacted directly Mojang (angry customers calling Mojang support).
Anyway, P2W is SO UGLY it should die die DIE forever.
You're being completely unreasonable though. Just imagine what it would be like if everyone had access to worldedit. You want to construct something cool? Too bad, not only is it so lag-intensive because everyone is using it that it becomes unfeasible to use, but that jerk griefer could go around cutting out everyone's creation and there's not a thing you can do about it.
Worldedit is not an advantage, it is a helpful tool for people who like big projects, but it is quite possible and reasonable for someone without worldedit to construct the same things, it just takes longer.
So you now have a tool that isn't that big of an advantage but will, and it is not merely a possibility but a guaranteed, wreak havoc on the server if everyone has it, and you're saying that it shouldn't be restricted? That's either very naive or you really want to make a replica of the starship Enterprise without paying for worldedit commands.
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
First off, i didn't say give everyone worldedit, i said you cannot charge for world edit. That is what the EULA is about. Whether you want to shave a few hours off a build with worldedit is not the point. Thats like saying i can save a bunch of time with Treecapitator. Any outside mod that helps you in anyway should not be charged for as it gives other people advantages some people can't either afford or purchase.
EULA is amazing as it evens the fairness of Minecraft on servers. I could care less if you can buy kits and what not because i dont play factions. I would actually much prefer cosmetic purchases then i would buying a perk/item that ruins the vanilla feel of the game.
As for the worldedit grief, you obviously would have rules and regulations and some sort of grief protection if you made a fair server where everyone can use worldedit. Also i like how you are calling me naive when you didnt even mention anything about rules along side everyone having worldedit.
I LOVE worldedit, but i would rather it be fair instead of me being able to purchase it, thats my point.