Greetings All. New to Minecraft, but have been gaming since the early 80's. Yeah, I'm an old schooler. I was working on Navy flight simulators when Dragon"s Lair came out. I'm soo old school, I played D&D back before AD&D came out. On paper!
And later in early 2000's got back into computers and got into game development and multimedia with a BA in Multimedia/Digital Animation. I focused mainly on 3d modeling and texturing, static models. Eventually, I backed out of the industry after seeing how corporations have taken over the gaming industry to the point of sacrificing talent and design for the sake of board members demands. Anyway...hindsight as they say!
To the point, from what I learned about game design, Minecraft does indeed classify as an RPG, which stands for "Role Playing Game", that's it. There is no specific definition, though the industry has incorporated various elements that have become common as a result of player demands, and as the basic game style and mechanics has develoved as people play it. Technology has had the biggest role though, as more features have become standard fair as video cards and processors can handle it, be it client or server side.
To say an RPG is "this or that" is going against the whole point of an RPG. The point is for the player to play A role, based upon the elements in THAT specific world. That basic standard filters down to the map level by designers placing what they have technologically available within specific maps or levels, but it's all just subjective decisions, based on what players seem to want, and what seems to work best technically. The art of it in part is in the balance of those two elements.
"ARPG"? Not exactly an industry standard, but I get your point. It's simply RPG, which may in fact have some action within it's play mechanics. There is a ton of action in WOW, or Assasins Creed, or what I use to play, the Battlefield series, but they are still an MMORPG. Most of the multiplayer games out there are by definition an RPG. MANY variants but all have that same base standard that the player adopts a role within the game world. A deaf mute in an empty world filled with critters and NPC's that don't talk is still an RPG. It's still an interaction with a villiger in a trade, or taking him to another locaton, etc. YOU as the player deicded that action, thus you played your role as you wanted, or as needed.
If it were an RPG there would be actual roleplaying and a storyline - Which there isn't
The achievements are the start of the story that starts at the first world with open inventory and goes until the ender dragons death where you get the end of the story.
The newly added atribbute system means in the future the game could have random stats on dropped gear like diablo 2.
The achievements are the start of the story that starts at the first world with open inventory and goes until the ender dragons death where you get the end of the story.
The newly added atribbute system means in the future the game could have random stats on dropped gear like diablo 2.
Achievements do not equal a story. They are there as vague introductions of things you can do in the game, kind of like a tutorial.
The attribute system should have been in the game forever ago. It is plain moronic to build stats directly into each item instead of using an overarching system that all items draw from, which is why 90% of the games with attributes have used some kind of system like this since the 90s or later.
"Could" is irrelevant. The next update could turn Minecraft into a shooter. It could make it into a puzzle platformer. It could make it an adult only game where you beat up people for drug money. "Could" doesn't mean "will".
Finally, that "could" you spoke of doesn't make it any more of an RPG. CoD has random modifiers attached to weapons you get off enemies in Single Player. Lots of games do.
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The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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Think about it...saying it's not an RPG...
Take EVERYTHING that minecraft has, building crafting fighting potions enchants monsters traders villagers etc etc.
Now remove building. Whats left?
You spawn into the world, weak and with nothing. Your first instinct is to find shelter and notice a village on the horizon. You head straight there and find a house to stay at. You gather some wood and craft yourself some basic tools and weapons to survive the night as enemies attempt to destroy the village. As you journey on you find better materials and craft better equipment and delve into magic gaining fire enchants and other such powers.
It can just keep going but literally without it's building it's a (although quite plain) RPG. You can pretend it's otherwise and don't HAVE to do the other stuff outside of building, but saying it's not at least HEAVY influenced to be one is rather silly.
Think about it...saying it's not an RPG...
Take EVERYTHING that minecraft has, building crafting fighting potions enchants monsters traders villagers etc etc.
Now remove building. Whats left?
You spawn into the world, weak and with nothing. Your first instinct is to find shelter and notice a village on the horizon. You head straight there and find a house to stay at. You gather some wood and craft yourself some basic tools and weapons to survive the night as enemies attempt to destroy the village. As you journey on you find better materials and craft better equipment and delve into magic gaining fire enchants and other such powers.
It can just keep going but literally without it's building it's a (although quite plain) RPG. You can pretend it's otherwise and don't HAVE to do the other stuff outside of building, but saying it's not at least HEAVY influenced to be one is rather silly.
So, if you remove one of the most important parts of the game, it becomes a different type of game? No kidding. On that note, if you remove guns from CoD it becomes a hack and slash game with one weapon. If you remove web abilities from Spider Man 2 it is an open world Beat em Up. See how that argument doesn't work?
Nearly every game has progression. Tetris progresses to more difficult speeds. Mario progresses to different levels and to new abilities. Saying that you get more stuff or new challenges as the game progresses does not make it an RPG. If games didn't progress, they usually are not fun. Everything you listed there: magic, villages, enemies, better equipment, none of that is RPG specific.
I'm not saying the game doesn't have some elements common in RPGs, it does. So does every game. It lacks the key features that make an RPG. Character development through plot, character development through interaction. Those are at the heart of every RPG. You advance a plot and you form relationships with other characters or players.
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Minecraft may have the qualifications of a role playing game, leveling, bosses, dungeons, npcs, actually playing a role as Steve, etc, but for some reason it doesn't fit into the RPG category. This video explains why:
So, if you remove one of the most important parts of the game, it becomes a different type of game? No kidding. On that note, if you remove guns from CoD it becomes a hack and slash game with one weapon. If you remove web abilities from Spider Man 2 it is an open world Beat em Up. See how that argument doesn't work?
Nearly every game has progression. Tetris progresses to more difficult speeds. Mario progresses to different levels and to new abilities. Saying that you get more stuff or new challenges as the game progresses does not make it an RPG. If games didn't progress, they usually are not fun. Everything you listed there: magic, villages, enemies, better equipment, none of that is RPG specific.
I'm not saying the game doesn't have some elements common in RPGs, it does. So does every game. It lacks the key features that make an RPG. Character development through plot, character development through interaction. Those are at the heart of every RPG. You advance a plot and you form relationships with other characters or players.
*the point*
*your head*
Congrats you managed to screw up the main point I was trying to show. There are RPG elements to the game, but everyone is being stupid and blinded by the main building component.
Progression in a platformer is different from an RPG, you can't cluster the same progression for different games into one group if you want to be accurate. Think back to before Mario was given newer power ups, the ORIGINAL platformers had nothing new power wise for the most part after the start, RPG's have the progression style closer to what minecraft has. You don't get to level 5-3 on minecraft and can now grow a racoon's tail and fly.
Yes a story is important to an RPG, character development is important. But that's not the ONLY thing to an RPG. I never said Minecraft a pure RPG, nor do I think it is. My point was to say it is secondarily and supported by an RPG feeling and ideas.
*last post as I am done arguing the point when people just want to box things into tiny strict categories*
*your head*
Congrats you managed to screw up the main point I was trying to show. There are RPG elements to the game, but everyone is being stupid and blinded by the main building component.
Progression in a platformer is different from an RPG, you can't cluster the same progression for different games into one group if you want to be accurate. Think back to before Mario was given newer power ups, the ORIGINAL platformers had nothing new power wise for the most part after the start, RPG's have the progression style closer to what minecraft has. You don't get to level 5-3 on minecraft and can now grow a racoon's tail and fly.
Yes a story is important to an RPG, character development is important. But that's not the ONLY thing to an RPG. I never said Minecraft a pure RPG, nor do I think it is. My point was to say it is secondarily and supported by an RPG feeling and ideas.
*last post as I am done arguing the point when people just want to box things into tiny strict categories*
Actually I'm on the other side of the fence. To me, you just didn't make your point clear. You never even really said your point, which now I see is that you think people get hung up on it originally being pure building and survival and deciding anything else detracts from that. We are actually in agreement, I just didn't get the point you were trying to make.
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*your head*
Congrats you managed to screw up the main point I was trying to show. There are RPG elements to the game, but everyone is being stupid and blinded by the main building component.
Progression in a platformer is different from an RPG, you can't cluster the same progression for different games into one group if you want to be accurate. Think back to before Mario was given newer power ups, the ORIGINAL platformers had nothing new power wise for the most part after the start, RPG's have the progression style closer to what minecraft has. You don't get to level 5-3 on minecraft and can now grow a racoon's tail and fly.
Yes a story is important to an RPG, character development is important. But that's not the ONLY thing to an RPG. I never said Minecraft a pure RPG, nor do I think it is. My point was to say it is secondarily and supported by an RPG feeling and ideas.
*last post as I am done arguing the point when people just want to box things into tiny strict categories*
It's a difficult question to answer in a way, but I think you did fine.
I too don't think it can be pigeon-holed into just an "RPG" or "Sandbox", it has all those elements for the most part, which the sandbox element is what initially attracted me to the game, Trying to build stuff in a game is typically only done with something like a "mod" and then you have to "model" that stuff with complicated software, etc. This game you don't, you just build it. Very neat stuff. So yeah, it's a sandbox game too.
And with the newer genre, an offshoot of RPG, the "FPS" like CoD, Battlefield, etc, Minecraft in multiplayer PvP, it's a "shooter" too any time you have players fighting each other, though typically, a "first person shooter" refereneces games with guns of some type, ergo "shooter", but I think you can call shooting arrows and blowing stuff up a shooter!
To be an RPG a game requires either roleplaying to be at the heart of the game (i.e. DnD, Call of Cthulu, etc) or a dialogue, plot, and characters. (mass effect, tales of, final fantasy, etc). You can enjoy minecraft without writing a complex backstory for steve, pretending to be him and talking to other people pretending to be characters and interacting with npcs as if you are steve (the npcs wont even respond other than oinking or blowing up in your face). On the flip side, there is no dialogue (other than oinking, mooing, weird zombie noises, and people begging you to give them diamonds on multiplayer servers), no plot (unless you count that little bit of story if you beat the enderdragon, which you are never prompted to do and is completely optional, and if i remember correctly, is quite meta.), and outside of your completely silent and customizeable character, other players on multiplayer, and the various mobs running around that never say anything and mostly just exist; no characters. So in conclusion I'm... pretty sure Minecraft is not an rpg.
There is not roleplaying in Minecraft, however, the player is at the heart of the game's plot (once you gather wood and build your home you pick the plot.) Mobs, both passive and hostile, are characters. I agree that you can enjoy the game without a backstory, but making a little backstory can make the game more enjoyable even though NPCs cant give you diamonds, but they can give you items through means of trading. Now that I think about it, I believe that Minecraft is an RPG in its own way. And that's why it is so unique compared to other games.
I personally love the fact that Mojang has figured out a way to make RPG elements (particularly the new Attribute system for items) fit the look and feel of Minecraft. Rather than worrying about Minecraft becoming an RPG, think of all the lovable RPG gameplay being Minecraftified!
Okay, look at the games people CAN agree on as being RPGs, and what they ALL have in common. Final fantasy, Tales, Earthbound, Fire Emblem, Dragon Quest, Disgaea, etc. Do you know what they all share? A deep focus on plot/dialogue/characters to the point that if you took them out it would be like taking the building out of Minecraft, the shooting out of Call of Duty, the jumping from mario, etc. Yes, they also all have some of the aspects that everyone is naming as to why minecraft is turning into an rpg, but maybe games that are quite definitely not rpgs share these aspects, and you could take them out with little to no affect on the feel and genre of the games.
Minecraft is a open-ended sandbox game, not a role playing game. It's a game where you can be whatever you want to be and do whatever you want to do. No real limitations. You are not a specific character on a specific quest or journey. There are no characters who will tell you what to do, or even hint at what you could do. Minecraft may have some similarities with RPG's, but those similarities are not specific to RPG's. Skyrim has iron swords and Minecraft has iron swords. Are you going to tell me that makes Minecraft an RPG?
Obviously from the replys in this thread, people will decide for themselves, regardless of what is presented to them. Is that preference or ignorance? Maybe both.
In professional game development, by accepted definition, Minecraft is defined as an RPG. Don't agree? That's your choice, but choice doesn't mean your correct.
For those who care to broaden their knowledge of facts, and not opinions, read some articles about the topic. Professional game design articles, like this one...(a good read I might add!)
What makes an RPG an RPG: a universal definition...
...Conclusion
A game is a computer RPG if it features player-driven development of a persistent character or characters via the making of consequential choices.
Obviously from the replys in this thread, people will decide for themselves, regardless of what is presented to them. Is that preference or ignorance? Maybe both.
In professional game development, by accepted definition, Minecraft is defined as an RPG. Don't agree? That's your choice, but choice doesn't mean your correct.
For those who care to broaden their knowledge of facts, and not opinions, read some articles about the topic. Professional game design articles, like this one...(a good read I might add!)
...Except, the way you define RPG in that quote does not describe Minecraft. No characters get developed. Ever. There aren't even any characters TO develop. So thank you for proving the other side's point, I guess.
I assure you I am for real. And my degree in the game develpment industry is just as real. You, like many, are missing the whole point of what constitutes an RPG. As that article points out, an RPG is a really loosly defined game genre, and over time, it has evolved, and newer types of RPG's have sprung up.
Just like someone used the term "ARPG", which isn't a real game genre, it's just a new slang for a vaiant of the RPG, to separate it from styles that are less "active".
The main point of an RPG is that the player assumes A role of A character, and lives their life in that particular game environment, going about doing things that the game allows. There are no real specific aspects other than you play a character that lives in a world with certain aspects. That's it. Even the combat aspect isn't defined other than to say the player/character has to battle their way through situations, and that is usually tracked via stats and leveling, but even leveling isn't needed to "develop" a character.
In Minecraft, you definately develop your character, even though at death you lose your "level". You still are in a sense leveling as you go through your experience in that world. The more you do things, the more "experience" you get, through if nothing else, trial and error. Don't tell me that isn't charater development. In Minecraft, you write the story yourself through your own personal game experience.
Minecraft allows the player to definately develop the story as it applies to the world of Minecraft. You even have interaction with NPC's, which has been a staple aspect of a RPG. There is no rule anywhere that says you must be a certain level to use a certain device. That is a game designers choice to use that aspect. It is a common feature, but nothing says it must be that way in order for the game to be a RPG.
I understand that on the surface, a RPG is not a FPS. Of course, two different styles or genres. But you missed why I made that reference that way.
They all require the player to assume a role of a character, even if it's the non-descript uniformed soldier in Battlefield 3 or CoD.
And you develop those military characters as you play, not in the "traditional" sense of the classic RPG style, but it's still done. The FPS genre is in fact an offshoot of the RPG. That is a gaming history fact. People that were playing the original RPG, D&D, wanted more, and it evolved from there. The military styled FPS is just people who liked military themes, versus fantasy. In the end, your still playing a role, and that's really all a RPG is about.
This discussion shows the difficulty that game designers are presented with when designing a game. Different people have different tastes, and understandings, of what should be in a game. It's really tough balancing what works with what peolpe want.
The great thing about gaming, is that remember, it's just games my friend! Enjoy if you want.
And later in early 2000's got back into computers and got into game development and multimedia with a BA in Multimedia/Digital Animation. I focused mainly on 3d modeling and texturing, static models. Eventually, I backed out of the industry after seeing how corporations have taken over the gaming industry to the point of sacrificing talent and design for the sake of board members demands. Anyway...hindsight as they say!
To the point, from what I learned about game design, Minecraft does indeed classify as an RPG, which stands for "Role Playing Game", that's it. There is no specific definition, though the industry has incorporated various elements that have become common as a result of player demands, and as the basic game style and mechanics has develoved as people play it. Technology has had the biggest role though, as more features have become standard fair as video cards and processors can handle it, be it client or server side.
To say an RPG is "this or that" is going against the whole point of an RPG. The point is for the player to play A role, based upon the elements in THAT specific world. That basic standard filters down to the map level by designers placing what they have technologically available within specific maps or levels, but it's all just subjective decisions, based on what players seem to want, and what seems to work best technically. The art of it in part is in the balance of those two elements.
"ARPG"? Not exactly an industry standard, but I get your point. It's simply RPG, which may in fact have some action within it's play mechanics. There is a ton of action in WOW, or Assasins Creed, or what I use to play, the Battlefield series, but they are still an MMORPG. Most of the multiplayer games out there are by definition an RPG. MANY variants but all have that same base standard that the player adopts a role within the game world. A deaf mute in an empty world filled with critters and NPC's that don't talk is still an RPG. It's still an interaction with a villiger in a trade, or taking him to another locaton, etc. YOU as the player deicded that action, thus you played your role as you wanted, or as needed.
Yeah, definately an RPG.
The achievements are the start of the story that starts at the first world with open inventory and goes until the ender dragons death where you get the end of the story.
The newly added atribbute system means in the future the game could have random stats on dropped gear like diablo 2.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
I've always called it a Boxel game. Because, you know, portmanteau puns.
Regardless, IMO there's no way to classify it as anything but it's own genre. It has a lot of elements from other genres packaged in a unique case.
Except tetris.
TT2000, you are genius.
Take EVERYTHING that minecraft has, building crafting fighting potions enchants monsters traders villagers etc etc.
Now remove building. Whats left?
You spawn into the world, weak and with nothing. Your first instinct is to find shelter and notice a village on the horizon. You head straight there and find a house to stay at. You gather some wood and craft yourself some basic tools and weapons to survive the night as enemies attempt to destroy the village. As you journey on you find better materials and craft better equipment and delve into magic gaining fire enchants and other such powers.
It can just keep going but literally without it's building it's a (although quite plain) RPG. You can pretend it's otherwise and don't HAVE to do the other stuff outside of building, but saying it's not at least HEAVY influenced to be one is rather silly.
So, if you remove one of the most important parts of the game, it becomes a different type of game? No kidding. On that note, if you remove guns from CoD it becomes a hack and slash game with one weapon. If you remove web abilities from Spider Man 2 it is an open world Beat em Up. See how that argument doesn't work?
Nearly every game has progression. Tetris progresses to more difficult speeds. Mario progresses to different levels and to new abilities. Saying that you get more stuff or new challenges as the game progresses does not make it an RPG. If games didn't progress, they usually are not fun. Everything you listed there: magic, villages, enemies, better equipment, none of that is RPG specific.
I'm not saying the game doesn't have some elements common in RPGs, it does. So does every game. It lacks the key features that make an RPG. Character development through plot, character development through interaction. Those are at the heart of every RPG. You advance a plot and you form relationships with other characters or players.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Minecraft is a GAME that you play. shut up and go play
Minecraft may have the qualifications of a role playing game, leveling, bosses, dungeons, npcs, actually playing a role as Steve, etc, but for some reason it doesn't fit into the RPG category. This video explains why:
*the point*
*your head*
Congrats you managed to screw up the main point I was trying to show. There are RPG elements to the game, but everyone is being stupid and blinded by the main building component.
Progression in a platformer is different from an RPG, you can't cluster the same progression for different games into one group if you want to be accurate. Think back to before Mario was given newer power ups, the ORIGINAL platformers had nothing new power wise for the most part after the start, RPG's have the progression style closer to what minecraft has. You don't get to level 5-3 on minecraft and can now grow a racoon's tail and fly.
Yes a story is important to an RPG, character development is important. But that's not the ONLY thing to an RPG. I never said Minecraft a pure RPG, nor do I think it is. My point was to say it is secondarily and supported by an RPG feeling and ideas.
*last post as I am done arguing the point when people just want to box things into tiny strict categories*
Actually I'm on the other side of the fence. To me, you just didn't make your point clear. You never even really said your point, which now I see is that you think people get hung up on it originally being pure building and survival and deciding anything else detracts from that. We are actually in agreement, I just didn't get the point you were trying to make.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
It's a difficult question to answer in a way, but I think you did fine.
I too don't think it can be pigeon-holed into just an "RPG" or "Sandbox", it has all those elements for the most part, which the sandbox element is what initially attracted me to the game, Trying to build stuff in a game is typically only done with something like a "mod" and then you have to "model" that stuff with complicated software, etc. This game you don't, you just build it. Very neat stuff. So yeah, it's a sandbox game too.
And with the newer genre, an offshoot of RPG, the "FPS" like CoD, Battlefield, etc, Minecraft in multiplayer PvP, it's a "shooter" too any time you have players fighting each other, though typically, a "first person shooter" refereneces games with guns of some type, ergo "shooter", but I think you can call shooting arrows and blowing stuff up a shooter!
There is not roleplaying in Minecraft, however, the player is at the heart of the game's plot (once you gather wood and build your home you pick the plot.) Mobs, both passive and hostile, are characters. I agree that you can enjoy the game without a backstory, but making a little backstory can make the game more enjoyable even though NPCs cant give you diamonds, but they can give you items through means of trading. Now that I think about it, I believe that Minecraft is an RPG in its own way. And that's why it is so unique compared to other games.
Related: http://eudaimoniagames.wordpress.com/2013/07/02/minecraft-1-6/
In professional game development, by accepted definition, Minecraft is defined as an RPG. Don't agree? That's your choice, but choice doesn't mean your correct.
For those who care to broaden their knowledge of facts, and not opinions, read some articles about the topic. Professional game design articles, like this one...(a good read I might add!)
http://sinisterdesig...sal-definition/
...Except, the way you define RPG in that quote does not describe Minecraft. No characters get developed. Ever. There aren't even any characters TO develop. So thank you for proving the other side's point, I guess.
Just like someone used the term "ARPG", which isn't a real game genre, it's just a new slang for a vaiant of the RPG, to separate it from styles that are less "active".
The main point of an RPG is that the player assumes A role of A character, and lives their life in that particular game environment, going about doing things that the game allows. There are no real specific aspects other than you play a character that lives in a world with certain aspects. That's it. Even the combat aspect isn't defined other than to say the player/character has to battle their way through situations, and that is usually tracked via stats and leveling, but even leveling isn't needed to "develop" a character.
In Minecraft, you definately develop your character, even though at death you lose your "level". You still are in a sense leveling as you go through your experience in that world. The more you do things, the more "experience" you get, through if nothing else, trial and error. Don't tell me that isn't charater development. In Minecraft, you write the story yourself through your own personal game experience.
Minecraft allows the player to definately develop the story as it applies to the world of Minecraft. You even have interaction with NPC's, which has been a staple aspect of a RPG. There is no rule anywhere that says you must be a certain level to use a certain device. That is a game designers choice to use that aspect. It is a common feature, but nothing says it must be that way in order for the game to be a RPG.
I understand that on the surface, a RPG is not a FPS. Of course, two different styles or genres. But you missed why I made that reference that way.
They all require the player to assume a role of a character, even if it's the non-descript uniformed soldier in Battlefield 3 or CoD.
And you develop those military characters as you play, not in the "traditional" sense of the classic RPG style, but it's still done. The FPS genre is in fact an offshoot of the RPG. That is a gaming history fact. People that were playing the original RPG, D&D, wanted more, and it evolved from there. The military styled FPS is just people who liked military themes, versus fantasy. In the end, your still playing a role, and that's really all a RPG is about.
This discussion shows the difficulty that game designers are presented with when designing a game. Different people have different tastes, and understandings, of what should be in a game. It's really tough balancing what works with what peolpe want.
The great thing about gaming, is that remember, it's just games my friend! Enjoy if you want.