You have got to be the stupid, BC_Programming stated that he has already revisited his old worlds and said that the only thing he truly misses is the old trail and error experiences, not the old generation. What you're doing is forcing him to believe in the "Alpha way." You can't just post to pictures and say this is what things should be like without any further evidence why, heck you didn't label them. I believe it is rightful to say you haven't read BC's entire post and were in too much of a rush to take some pictures and post them ASAP just so you can say my post has pictures!
And the award for most ignorant post of the morning goes to Exalm! Here have this trophy to proudly display on the shelf-
You have got to be the stupid, BC_Programming stated that he has already revisited his old worlds and said that the only thing he truly misses is the old trail and error experiences, not the old generation. What you're doing is forcing him to believe in the "Alpha way." You can't just post to pictures and say this is what things should be like without any further evidence why, heck you didn't label them. I believe it is rightful to say you haven't read BC's entire post and were in too much of a rush to take some pictures and post them ASAP just so you can say my post has pictures!
And the award for most ignorant post of the morning goes to Exalm! Here have this trophy to proudly display on the shelf-
This topic is about generation, isn't it?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My UA on laptop: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:27.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/27.0 SeaMonkey/2.24 Lightning/2.9b1; I use Ubuntu 13.10 here.
And on desktop: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:20.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/20.0; Here I use openSUSE 12.2.
I've been playing since 1.2.5 and I respectfully disagree. I still have the very first world I ever generated in minecraft, which I played on until 1.2 beta. I was considering giving 1.2.5 Alpha a quick go since I still have the jar from it backed up. Most of the difference for me is from before I knew much about the game; such as my first day jumping around happily beating pigs and chickens and cows to death. Then night fell. I was not expecting the hostile mobs at all. Cue me running around like a chicken with it's head cut off until a creeper blew me up.
Looking at my old worlds- everything is so terribly built. I have several buildings without a roof, since a roof was unnecessary (since spiders couldn't climb walls at the time), I had no idea how to find ores.
The big memory for me is my first frustrating experiences with getting diamond, and more specifically getting to the nether, which was like my goal. It took me over 2 weeks just to work up the courage to go down below. I ventured below the ground. I was cautious. Always on the lookout for danger. I managed to find diamond, but had no iron pick. blast. So I kept looking, and finally found iron which I smelted on the spot. crafting myself a pick, I returned to the diamond I had seen (with some difficulty).
Now my obstacle was in identifying obsidian, as well as mining it. I already knew something about making water touch lava, but my experiments kept yielding only cobblestone. I managed to make a single block of obsidian this way. I continued my travels. Then I found a bed of obsidian. excitement! I mined a block and quickly learned a hard lesson, which is "don't stand on obsidian when you are mining natural formations of it underground". I lost all my lootz. But I gained experience. That is what I miss. The trial and error; not the terrain generator.
But that's actual nostalgia. OP is saying this issue isn't nostalgia. It's an actual problem within the game.
I agree, and disagree, I personally love the way the generating is...minus the empty oceans that should be festering with life... ALTHOUGH, I would like to see some things returned, but without losing what we have.... Very mountainous regeion, deviding desert and tundra, large beaches, I would love to see both generators "work together" without making swiss cheese of the underground.
I agree, and disagree, I personally love the way the generating is...minus the empty oceans that should be festering with life... ALTHOUGH, I would like to see some things returned, but without losing what we have.... Very mountainous regeion, deviding desert and tundra, large beaches, I would love to see both generators "work together" without making swiss cheese of the underground.
You do realize some of the things you named that you want to keep are ugly byproducts of the removal of very awesome features?
I wonder if the programmers actually play the game enough to notice it is a problem. It's like they focus on one thing every update, not taking an occasional look at everything else. Unless it's a bug, it's like they won't even care to search for displeasures in the game. Too bad this isn't considered a bug. But it is a serious problem and Jeb hasn't acknowledged that yet.
Going to try not to repeat what others already said, no point. Anyway, you got my full support, the new generation doesn't give me any inspiration :
And just like you, I had the same feeling when I reloaded the custom map Wizard Burgmund. Saw all those high tops, a beach right at the very beginning, and again high tops, because they used to be frequent, and that's how I would love it to be! I am kind of tired now, to actually describe every nostalgic feel I get when I load an older map, but at the same time, I have to post this! I do remember the good times I've had in minecraft, I have then understood, long time ago, that generation is everything in minecraft, that's when you didn't force yourself to play Minecraft, and didn't promise yourself that there would be something interesting on the road, because then, everything was completely different and everything came to you, and you embraced the situation and the feeling and started exploring. I really really, wish jeb does something about this, moreover that once I do remember I have seen on his twitter, something about alpha generation coming back? Maybe the fact that he brought the old apple recipe will make him think about the generation even more.
Everyone knows that 1.8 Beta is when minecraft tore apart. There was so much division among the fanbase that ripples of its war still persist unto this day. The thing is, I was on the 1.8 side. I would roam these forums for quite some time, and I almost instinctively hunted down people that said that 1.8 had ruined minecraft because it angered me. People still do it, and for the most part, they're still wrong.
<Original Post Continues>
Very inspiring post - and you are wrong as for us "nostalgic" as you call us, not all of us want 1.7 back. Some of us just want the terrain features mixed with the modern minecraft updates like ravines, villages, npcs, mineshafts, the end, etc.. but we just want some of the glorious explore-able land masses back. You should check out my profile and support the cause we could really use your support
Good to see other fellow minecrafters who want the same thing as us!
- Ace
It's been so long since 1.7.3 I had forgotten how awesome the land generation was.You would have these random floating islands and huge mountains .I forgot how awesome the land generation was back then compared to now......
I remember the days before I had minecraft and I played the demo. I loved the amazing world. And then I got the full version when it was in 1.8 beta. Something was definitely just not right.
I completely agree with everything you have said. I like the new features and all, but the terrain has been disappointing. Your story has made me sad.
I remember the days before I had minecraft and I played the demo. I loved the amazing world. And then I got the full version when it was in 1.8 beta. Something was definitely just not right.
I completely agree with everything you have said. I like the new features and all, but the terrain has been disappointing. Your story has made me sad.
I used to like it too. I was all excited when 1.0 came out (after taking a few months break) but in a couple of days I knew something wasn't right.
I'm sure OP doesn't care about biome size or the new option. Cave sizes in the old generator were random. Sure, you were bound to find smaller ones than bigger ones most of the time, but I've been in caves in 1.7 that lasted me hours to explore. Too bad in the current generator, you can't make a mine without running into a swiss-cheese cave complex every four blocks. Every cave intersects another cave and it will turn into one complex that intersects with 50 other complexes. It's pretty annoying when you can't have the feeling you "conquered" the cave when it lasts forever. I'm not against these swiss-cheese complexes, but I'm against their frequency of appearing in your world. WAY too often.
It's an even bigger problem with the Extreme Hills biome, because caves are more abundant there than any other biome.
I think the problem is that the world generator is more modularized, based on biome. Every biome has largely it's own generation code. This makes the generation very streamlined...
and thus more boring. The only way to make the worlds more random/charming is to go back to the old ways of doing things: making one really diverse biome. But, there is now one possibility more: make every biome really diverse. This would make each biome less distinctively recognizable. But it would make the world more varied than every before. Just imagine: a world with Minecraft classic, Minecraft alpha, and Minecraft beta landscapes. Maybe even more. Possibilities are limitless.
And to make my post more interesting, here's a gorgeous alpha world:
<screenshot>
Actually code is shared. Generation is streamlined, because:
Fixed number of trees per chunk. In Beta it's value generated by Perlin noise generator and multiplied for some biomes.
Same thing with flowers, reeds, cacti etc.
Biomes define min and max height. In Beta some biomes are slightly more flat. But it's almost impossible to notice.
Biomes define grass color, making transitions very harsh. In Beta there are temperature and humidity, and they define biomes, and they are used for color.
Since biomes are not based on temperature/humidity, their size is almost always same.
Edit: To make my post more interesting, here is a gorgeous Infdev world.
Notch implemented generation using 3D perlin noise to make terrain more interesting and crazy...
However, he made it less crazy after a few versions. This screenshot shows already tweaked generation. But it's still can create extreme cliffs. Now terrain is just flat.
Still don't see why Notch would do that. Still a great idea to mix different world generators together.
<screenshot>
Generator generates terrain by chunks. The only possible mixing are ugly chunk border walls that occur when you load world with wrong generator. Or you need to manually create transition.
According to the wiki there already are such "Technical Biomes" in the game.
Technical biomes are:
Rivers.
Hills. (Yep, hills. Instead of making height more variable, they added technical biomes for this. :()
Frozen rivers and frozen oceans.
Beaches. (Yep, they are biomes too now. :()
Other things I don't remember.
But they don't help with mixing, as Beta uses very different biome system. For example, it doesn't support any technical biomes at all.
And issue is that different generators know nothing about each other, so they can't create transitions between each other.
You have got to be the stupid, BC_Programming stated that he has already revisited his old worlds and said that the only thing he truly misses is the old trail and error experiences, not the old generation. What you're doing is forcing him to believe in the "Alpha way." You can't just post to pictures and say this is what things should be like without any further evidence why, heck you didn't label them. I believe it is rightful to say you haven't read BC's entire post and were in too much of a rush to take some pictures and post them ASAP just so you can say my post has pictures!
And the award for most ignorant post of the morning goes to Exalm! Here have this trophy to proudly display on the shelf-
But that's actual nostalgia. OP is saying this issue isn't nostalgia. It's an actual problem within the game.
You do realize some of the things you named that you want to keep are ugly byproducts of the removal of very awesome features?
Forest mountains + Desert Mountains + Snowy Mountains ---------- REMOVAL-----> Forced flat forests + Forced flat snowy biomes + Forced flat deserts + Extreme Hills Biome (dull repetitive piles of grass)
Neater bigger sandy beaches + Gravel beaches ------------REMOVAL------> Sloppy and small sandy beaches
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
And just like you, I had the same feeling when I reloaded the custom map Wizard Burgmund. Saw all those high tops, a beach right at the very beginning, and again high tops, because they used to be frequent, and that's how I would love it to be! I am kind of tired now, to actually describe every nostalgic feel I get when I load an older map, but at the same time, I have to post this! I do remember the good times I've had in minecraft, I have then understood, long time ago, that generation is everything in minecraft, that's when you didn't force yourself to play Minecraft, and didn't promise yourself that there would be something interesting on the road, because then, everything was completely different and everything came to you, and you embraced the situation and the feeling and started exploring. I really really, wish jeb does something about this, moreover that once I do remember I have seen on his twitter, something about alpha generation coming back? Maybe the fact that he brought the old apple recipe will make him think about the generation even more.
Fluffy approves!
Very inspiring post - and you are wrong as for us "nostalgic" as you call us, not all of us want 1.7 back. Some of us just want the terrain features mixed with the modern minecraft updates like ravines, villages, npcs, mineshafts, the end, etc.. but we just want some of the glorious explore-able land masses back. You should check out my profile and support the cause we could really use your support
Good to see other fellow minecrafters who want the same thing as us!
- Ace
I remember the days before I had minecraft and I played the demo. I loved the amazing world. And then I got the full version when it was in 1.8 beta. Something was definitely just not right.
I completely agree with everything you have said. I like the new features and all, but the terrain has been disappointing. Your story has made me sad.
I used to like it too. I was all excited when 1.0 came out (after taking a few months break) but in a couple of days I knew something wasn't right.
It's an even bigger problem with the Extreme Hills biome, because caves are more abundant there than any other biome.
Fixed number of trees per chunk. In Beta it's value generated by Perlin noise generator and multiplied for some biomes.
Same thing with flowers, reeds, cacti etc.
Biomes define min and max height. In Beta some biomes are slightly more flat. But it's almost impossible to notice.
Biomes define grass color, making transitions very harsh. In Beta there are temperature and humidity, and they define biomes, and they are used for color.
Since biomes are not based on temperature/humidity, their size is almost always same.
Edit: To make my post more interesting, here is a gorgeous Infdev world.
Notch implemented generation using 3D perlin noise to make terrain more interesting and crazy...
However, he made it less crazy after a few versions. This screenshot shows already tweaked generation. But it's still can create extreme cliffs. Now terrain is just flat.
Rivers.
Hills. (Yep, hills. Instead of making height more variable, they added technical biomes for this. :()
Frozen rivers and frozen oceans.
Beaches. (Yep, they are biomes too now. :()
Other things I don't remember.
But they don't help with mixing, as Beta uses very different biome system. For example, it doesn't support any technical biomes at all.
And issue is that different generators know nothing about each other, so they can't create transitions between each other.
If OP was completely nostalgic, I think he'd be getting a past version of the game.
It is a fact that the terrain has lost variation.