Yes, let's take one side of the story and prosecute the "villain" of that story with out giving said "villain" an chance to defend their selves.
But seriously, you guys have no idea what has happened besides some rage tweets from notch, speculation, and in general crowd effect.
I for one, while only really starting to watch Yogscast quite recently, will stick to it that they are innocent until proven guilty.
In nine out of ten Minecraft issues, I have sided with Notch. The last time I criticized him and Mojang was during the authentication server failures in February. I'm not (was not) a Notch hater before this. But good job on keeping an open mind, yourself.
Yes, let's take one side of the story and prosecute the "villain" of that story with out giving said "villain" an chance to defend their selves.
But seriously, you guys have no idea what has happened besides some rage tweets from notch, speculation, and in general crowd effect.
I for one, while only really starting to watch Yogscast quite recently, will stick to it that they are innocent until proven guilty.
This is basically what I am saying, though certain assholes keep seeing me as supporting one side or the other depending on what preconceived biases that they already hold.
It kind of sucks to be in the position of being insulted and bullied because of other people's flaws.
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All moderation on forums is biased. Mods and admins do play favorites. Thus there is truly no point in "playing by the rules" since enforcement of said rules is subjective. That is why I refuse to censor my speech and will call things exactly as I see them without reservation.
In nine out of ten Minecraft issues, I have sided with Notch. The last time I criticized him and Mojang was during the authentication server failures in February. I'm not (was not) a Notch hater before this. But good job on keeping an open mind, yourself.
Yeah, it is hard work not blindly believing every single thing I have ever read on the internet.
This is basically what I am saying, though certain assholes keep seeing me as supporting one side or the other depending on what preconceived biases that they already hold.
It kind of sucks to be in the position of being insulted and bullied because of other people's flaws.
I would be happy if this turned out to be a major misunderstanding or bizarre troll on Notch's part, pleased as punch. But until either that or an apology from Notch he's in the wrong here.
I would be happy if this turned out to be a major misunderstanding or bizarre troll on Notch's part, pleased as punch. But until either that or an apology from Notch he's in the wrong here.
He's in the wrong only so far as airing this in public is concerned. For this fiasco reaching the heights it has, Notch has sole blame. Everything else is unproven one way or the other. If you look back to my first post on this topic (it's only a few pages back) I have said that no matter what Yogscast's crimes are (if any) that Notch is still to blame for posting anything about his grievances on Twitter at all. The two are related, but separate, matters.
As for his accusations, that's all they are at this point. There is no real evidence to their veracity one way or the other. Now people have their suspicions as to what happened (as I do but I am keeping silent until we see more), but that is all those are. Suspicions equal to little more than opinions and some people here have some heavily biased opinions, largely based on their like/dislike of Yogscast.
As for the bizarre troll, that is looking more and more unlikely, especially with the report of the Notch fan harassing Yogscast at the airport. Whether or not the incident took place, that report should have had all parties come forward and admit the trolling or at least have seen someone say "hey, look, that **** is not okay, don't repeat that behavior".
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All moderation on forums is biased. Mods and admins do play favorites. Thus there is truly no point in "playing by the rules" since enforcement of said rules is subjective. That is why I refuse to censor my speech and will call things exactly as I see them without reservation.
The more I see of this, the more I think that my position is right. I think this was huge misunderstanding on Notches part. In some ways I can see how he might have thought some of their comments were insulting to him and his team (During the panel I mean), but given all the other evidence of how they acted, witch was generally polite, I have to disagree. I think he overacted about a trivial matter and it will come back to bite him.
I've always tried to give Notch the benefit of the doubt (I don't work at Monjang, how should I know what really going on); but this... this has caused me to loose respect for the man.
Even if it turns out that all he said was true, he is still in the wrong for bringing it to twitter instead of keeping it behind closed doors. It was immature, unprofessional, and stupid. Not only has he damaged his own character, but possible that of the Yogscast as well.
Social Media is not a paid job, and if you're expecting money for it, you should probably negotiate those terms up front, instead of trying to use leverage on the back end of the whole thing.
People often forget that times are changing rapidly in society. Yogscast is nothing more then a social media outlet, just as notch on twitter is the same. If I start posting on twitter about a game I like, and become popular, should I then demand money for my services?
Think if you'd like a service man show up at your house one day, and start remodeling your home, without talking with you, or presenting a contract or etc. Then, when the house comes out really nice, and the neighbors like it, he hands you a bill, and demands that the only reason you're popular with the neighbors, is because he had the good sense to remodel your hideous house for you.
Blogging doesn't entitle you to compensation, period. If you get compensated, great, however, demanding or expecting it, and being offended if it doesn't happen, is just plain stupid.
The fact that people are upset at notch for using his social media outlet, to address the issue of another social media outlet, is just crazy. Yogscast basically used the stage at minecon as a weapon, yet notch posting on twitter is a no no. Makes perfect sense.
Sounds to me like notch and Mojang didn't spell out the terms and conditions for minecon, and yogscast didn't use the best judgement or discretion.
You really shouldn't need to tell two grown men, how they need to behave in front of a public audience that includes children, you also shouldn't need to tell them that they aren't entitled to ANYTHING without a prior agreement with Mojang.
Nobody was ever forcing yogscast to do this, nobody asked them to continue, they did it of their own free will. Their invitation to minecon was likely extended due to the popularity of the yogscast, and if they had expected to get paid, they could have declined to attend. Instead they chose to show up, and put a half assed effort into it, and insult the game, it's creators, and the fans.
Notch could have kept quiet about the whole thing, and not said a word on twitter, but it wouldn't have changed a single thing, it would have just delayed the entire issue.
Unless someone can come up with a contract between yogscast and Mojang, it sounds to me like Yogscast made a bunch of assumptions, and acted like asshats when they didn't get their way.
Social Media is not a paid job, and if you're expecting money for it, you should probably negotiate those terms up front, instead of trying to use leverage on the back end of the whole thing.
Who says this is what happened? No one. This is a non-point.
People often forget that times are changing rapidly in society. Yogscast is nothing more then a social media outlet, just as notch on twitter is the same. If I start posting on twitter about a game I like, and become popular, should I then demand money for my services?
No, but I do see where you're going with this and it is one hell of a stretch, even for making a straw-man argument, but I will get to that.
Think if you'd like a service man show up at your house one day, and start remodeling your home, without talking with you, or presenting a contract or etc. Then, when the house comes out really nice, and the neighbors like it, he hands you a bill, and demands that the only reason you're popular with the neighbors, is because he had the good sense to remodel your hideous house for you.
Irrelevant. You are effectively equating a series of crimes with arrogant (but perfectly legal) behavior. Try again.
Blogging doesn't entitle you to compensation, period. If you get compensated, great, however, demanding or expecting it, and being offended if it doesn't happen, is just plain stupid.
And it is your assumption that this happened. There is zero evidence of this.
The fact that people are upset at notch for using his social media outlet, to address the issue of another social media outlet, is just crazy. Yogscast basically used the stage at minecon as a weapon, yet notch posting on twitter is a no no. Makes perfect sense.
Um, no. Notch used his social media outlet to level (thus far) baseless accusations against Yogscast. Notch used his social media outlet as a weapon to defame and possibly commit libel. Yogscast merely used the stage at Minecon to poke a bit of good-natured fun, something which anyone with a sense of humor would have found funny, or at the least, good-naturedly satirical.
Sounds to me like notch and Mojang didn't spell out the terms and conditions for minecon, and yogscast didn't use the best judgement or discretion.
This is perhaps the only sensible thing you say in this post.
You really shouldn't need to tell two grown men, how they need to behave in front of a public audience that includes children, you also shouldn't need to tell them that they aren't entitled to ANYTHING without a prior agreement with Mojang.
Okay, again you are assuming that events occured that there is no evidence of. Moreover, it is starting to become evident that you haven't even watched the panel. I suggest you go and do that.
Nobody was ever forcing yogscast to do this, nobody asked them to continue, they did it of their own free will. Their invitation to minecon was likely extended due to the popularity of the yogscast, and if they had expected to get paid, they could have declined to attend. Instead they chose to show up, and put a half assed effort into it, and insult the game, it's creators, and the fans.
I am starting to think you're just a troll, but just in case you really do believe what you say, I have this. You are making the assumption that Yogscast chose to attend Minecon without pay for the sole purpose of insulting the Minecon, Mojang and fans of both. Wow, that is pretty low. Good thing there is zero evidence of that being the case.
Notch could have kept quiet about the whole thing, and not said a word on twitter, but it wouldn't have changed a single thing, it would have just delayed the entire issue.
Actually, no. He could have handled the thing quietly and not made a big deal out of it. Yogscast simply would not have had a panel at the next Minecon (assuming there is one) and this could have been handled professionally and with class. Notch could have put himself on a level above the perceived wrongs of Yogscast. Instead he chose to go down to that level.
Unless someone can come up with a contract between yogscast and Mojang, it sounds to me like Yogscast made a bunch of assumptions, and acted like asshats when they didn't get their way.
Yup, Yogscast made a bunch of assumptions, just like you are assuming that Notch's tweets are 100% accurate.
Now, either you are doing one hell of a job trolling or you've got blinders the size of sails over your eyes. Either way, that post deserved to be picked apart.
All moderation on forums is biased. Mods and admins do play favorites. Thus there is truly no point in "playing by the rules" since enforcement of said rules is subjective. That is why I refuse to censor my speech and will call things exactly as I see them without reservation.
Social Media is not a paid job, and if you're expecting money for it, you should probably negotiate those terms up front, instead of trying to use leverage on the back end of the whole thing.
They were likely specifically asking for compensation for appearing at the convention, which probably only entailed paying for the tickets and lodging there (which would be as expensive as hell, going from the UK to Vegas). And since, yes, you're right, social media ISN'T a paid job (while game development sure as **** is), I'm willing to bet that Simon and Lewis weren't exactly in a prime position to foot the whole bill for plane tickets and lodging on their own.
I am siding with Notch and the Mojang team on this one. This comes from a VERY loyal YogsCast fan. I still love them and will continue to watch their videos.
You all talk about Notch needing the YogsCast. Why is that? Minecraft would still have been somewhat successful without them. But what if minecraft never came out...
The YogsCast would have little to no popularity. They wouldn't be making six figures off of YouTube. They wouldn't be able to fart around all day without jobs and play video games non-competitively for money if it wasn't for Notch. They should be bent over kissing his Swedish ****! They should fully respect him, obey every little rule that he spits out of his mouth. Without him, who knows what they'd be doing in this EU crisis.
He deserved to put this out for everyone to see. The YogsCast needed to be exposed for their disrespect. They deserve every bit of negative attention they are getting. Now, all they have to do is apologize. "Pleading their case" is extremely immature and unnecessary.
(Also, many of you don't know. It isn't just Simon, Lewis, and Hanna. It is also their coworkers that whined about not being payed for signing papers at a kids convention.)
Many of you are misunderstood about what they did. They didn't just curse, they attempted to vandalize a poor child's signature by Notch and put curse words on it. All the poor kid wanted was their signature, but their pure arrogance took over. The community deserves to know about this.
Now, Notch could have used tumblr and written up a clearer statement, but I understand how angry he must be. The YogsCast's pure immaturity and attitude has rubbed off onto him, lowering his reputation. To clear his name, the blame has to be put on someone. That someone is the YogsCast.
That is all.
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Quote from ProfessorMustache »
Question is who is willing to take up the task? I would but my modding skills are probably as crippled as a turtle covered in honey and duct-tape on an interstate highway.
I'm still not understanding how people are taking sides when:
We haven't heard both sides yet.
I honestly do not get that. If this was in court, would you automatically side with the murderer just because they started pointing fingers first, before the other party had a chance to give a reply?
I like the Yogscast, so I want to give them a chance to give a statement before I lose my respect for them (which isn't much to begin with, in all honesty, I can never truly give respect to someone popular that I don't personally know because of the "public face does not always equal the same thing in private life" rule).
I am siding with Notch and the Mojang team on this one. This comes from a VERY loyal YogsCast fan. I still love them and will continue to watch their videos.
You all talk about Notch needing the YogsCast. Why is that? Minecraft would still have been somewhat successful without them. But what if minecraft never came out...
The YogsCast would have little to no popularity. They wouldn't be making six figures off of YouTube. They wouldn't be able to fart around all day without jobs and play video games non-competitively for money if it wasn't for Notch. They should be bent over kissing his Swedish ****! They should fully respect him, obey every little rule that he spits out of his mouth. Without him, who knows what they'd be doing in this EU crisis.
He deserved to put this out for everyone to see. The YogsCast needed to be exposed for their disrespect. They deserve every bit of negative attention they are getting. Now, all they have to do is apologize. "Pleading their case" is extremely immature and unnecessary.
(Also, many of you don't know. It isn't just Simon, Lewis, and Hanna. It is also their coworkers that whined about not being payed for signing papers at a kids convention.)
Many of you are misunderstood about what they did. They didn't just curse, they attempted to vandalize a poor child's signature by Notch and put curse words on it. All the poor kid wanted was their signature, but their pure arrogance took over. The community deserves to know about this.
Now, Notch could have used tumblr and written up a clearer statement, but I understand how angry he must be. The YogsCast's pure immaturity and attitude has rubbed off onto him, lowering his reputation. To clear his name, the blame has to be put on someone. That someone is the YogsCast.
That is all.
Yogcast was already pretty popular even before they started doing minecraft stuff. Why should they be sucking up to notch when they were asked to stop doing their jobs to go entertain at minecon for no pay and no pension? I don't care if they 'Play Videogames for a living' that's just as moot as complaining when you ask spock to come to a startrek convention and expect him to do it for free. And no, from what I've seen the Yogcast has been polite and respectful as you can see in these videos and . They never did vandalize the kid's signature, they joked about doing it, there's a difference.
So did they actually say yogscast made minecraft popular or just yogsBox.
If yogsBox you can't really deny that modders have contributed a lot to minecraft.
The mutually growing popularity of both has made Minecraft what it is today. Minecraft gave the impetus that helped Yogscast explode from a somewhat popular WoW thing into the internet mainstream; Yogscast's promotion of the game helped boost Minecraft's sales substantially. This is why it's so distressing - both sides have a lot to lose, alienating each other, yet Notch seems to think he can do throw them under a bus without repercussion. At best it shows he's rather ignorant of Yogscasts' accomplishments; at worst, that he's become very, very full of himself.
But seriously, you guys have no idea what has happened besides some rage tweets from notch, speculation, and in general crowd effect.
I for one, while only really starting to watch Yogscast quite recently, will stick to it that they are innocent until proven guilty.
In nine out of ten Minecraft issues, I have sided with Notch. The last time I criticized him and Mojang was during the authentication server failures in February. I'm not (was not) a Notch hater before this. But good job on keeping an open mind, yourself.
This is basically what I am saying, though certain assholes keep seeing me as supporting one side or the other depending on what preconceived biases that they already hold.
It kind of sucks to be in the position of being insulted and bullied because of other people's flaws.
Yeah, it is hard work not blindly believing every single thing I have ever read on the internet.
I would be happy if this turned out to be a major misunderstanding or bizarre troll on Notch's part, pleased as punch. But until either that or an apology from Notch he's in the wrong here.
See this is why I insult people. I pay compliments and what happens? I get my hand bit. : /
Good one dude. Totally got me there.
He's in the wrong only so far as airing this in public is concerned. For this fiasco reaching the heights it has, Notch has sole blame. Everything else is unproven one way or the other. If you look back to my first post on this topic (it's only a few pages back) I have said that no matter what Yogscast's crimes are (if any) that Notch is still to blame for posting anything about his grievances on Twitter at all. The two are related, but separate, matters.
As for his accusations, that's all they are at this point. There is no real evidence to their veracity one way or the other. Now people have their suspicions as to what happened (as I do but I am keeping silent until we see more), but that is all those are. Suspicions equal to little more than opinions and some people here have some heavily biased opinions, largely based on their like/dislike of Yogscast.
As for the bizarre troll, that is looking more and more unlikely, especially with the report of the Notch fan harassing Yogscast at the airport. Whether or not the incident took place, that report should have had all parties come forward and admit the trolling or at least have seen someone say "hey, look, that **** is not okay, don't repeat that behavior".
I've always tried to give Notch the benefit of the doubt (I don't work at Monjang, how should I know what really going on); but this... this has caused me to loose respect for the man.
Even if it turns out that all he said was true, he is still in the wrong for bringing it to twitter instead of keeping it behind closed doors. It was immature, unprofessional, and stupid. Not only has he damaged his own character, but possible that of the Yogscast as well.
Good one dude. Totally got me there.
[/quote]
Felt like you were looking down on me, so I made sure to let you know who was superior to whom.
I was unironically trying to pay you a compliment. :sad.gif:
People often forget that times are changing rapidly in society. Yogscast is nothing more then a social media outlet, just as notch on twitter is the same. If I start posting on twitter about a game I like, and become popular, should I then demand money for my services?
Think if you'd like a service man show up at your house one day, and start remodeling your home, without talking with you, or presenting a contract or etc. Then, when the house comes out really nice, and the neighbors like it, he hands you a bill, and demands that the only reason you're popular with the neighbors, is because he had the good sense to remodel your hideous house for you.
Blogging doesn't entitle you to compensation, period. If you get compensated, great, however, demanding or expecting it, and being offended if it doesn't happen, is just plain stupid.
The fact that people are upset at notch for using his social media outlet, to address the issue of another social media outlet, is just crazy. Yogscast basically used the stage at minecon as a weapon, yet notch posting on twitter is a no no. Makes perfect sense.
Sounds to me like notch and Mojang didn't spell out the terms and conditions for minecon, and yogscast didn't use the best judgement or discretion.
You really shouldn't need to tell two grown men, how they need to behave in front of a public audience that includes children, you also shouldn't need to tell them that they aren't entitled to ANYTHING without a prior agreement with Mojang.
Nobody was ever forcing yogscast to do this, nobody asked them to continue, they did it of their own free will. Their invitation to minecon was likely extended due to the popularity of the yogscast, and if they had expected to get paid, they could have declined to attend. Instead they chose to show up, and put a half assed effort into it, and insult the game, it's creators, and the fans.
Notch could have kept quiet about the whole thing, and not said a word on twitter, but it wouldn't have changed a single thing, it would have just delayed the entire issue.
Unless someone can come up with a contract between yogscast and Mojang, it sounds to me like Yogscast made a bunch of assumptions, and acted like asshats when they didn't get their way.
yes there is. watch the yogscast pannel
TIHS MAH SIGANATERWho says this is what happened? No one. This is a non-point.
No, but I do see where you're going with this and it is one hell of a stretch, even for making a straw-man argument, but I will get to that.
Irrelevant. You are effectively equating a series of crimes with arrogant (but perfectly legal) behavior. Try again.
And it is your assumption that this happened. There is zero evidence of this.
Um, no. Notch used his social media outlet to level (thus far) baseless accusations against Yogscast. Notch used his social media outlet as a weapon to defame and possibly commit libel. Yogscast merely used the stage at Minecon to poke a bit of good-natured fun, something which anyone with a sense of humor would have found funny, or at the least, good-naturedly satirical.
This is perhaps the only sensible thing you say in this post.
Okay, again you are assuming that events occured that there is no evidence of. Moreover, it is starting to become evident that you haven't even watched the panel. I suggest you go and do that.
I am starting to think you're just a troll, but just in case you really do believe what you say, I have this. You are making the assumption that Yogscast chose to attend Minecon without pay for the sole purpose of insulting the Minecon, Mojang and fans of both. Wow, that is pretty low. Good thing there is zero evidence of that being the case.
Actually, no. He could have handled the thing quietly and not made a big deal out of it. Yogscast simply would not have had a panel at the next Minecon (assuming there is one) and this could have been handled professionally and with class. Notch could have put himself on a level above the perceived wrongs of Yogscast. Instead he chose to go down to that level.
Yup, Yogscast made a bunch of assumptions, just like you are assuming that Notch's tweets are 100% accurate.
Now, either you are doing one hell of a job trolling or you've got blinders the size of sails over your eyes. Either way, that post deserved to be picked apart.
They were likely specifically asking for compensation for appearing at the convention, which probably only entailed paying for the tickets and lodging there (which would be as expensive as hell, going from the UK to Vegas). And since, yes, you're right, social media ISN'T a paid job (while game development sure as **** is), I'm willing to bet that Simon and Lewis weren't exactly in a prime position to foot the whole bill for plane tickets and lodging on their own.
I WANT TO SAUTAMIZE YOU WITH A CUP
TIHS MAH SIGANATERYou all talk about Notch needing the YogsCast. Why is that? Minecraft would still have been somewhat successful without them. But what if minecraft never came out...
The YogsCast would have little to no popularity. They wouldn't be making six figures off of YouTube. They wouldn't be able to fart around all day without jobs and play video games non-competitively for money if it wasn't for Notch. They should be bent over kissing his Swedish ****! They should fully respect him, obey every little rule that he spits out of his mouth. Without him, who knows what they'd be doing in this EU crisis.
He deserved to put this out for everyone to see. The YogsCast needed to be exposed for their disrespect. They deserve every bit of negative attention they are getting. Now, all they have to do is apologize. "Pleading their case" is extremely immature and unnecessary.
(Also, many of you don't know. It isn't just Simon, Lewis, and Hanna. It is also their coworkers that whined about not being payed for signing papers at a kids convention.)
Many of you are misunderstood about what they did. They didn't just curse, they attempted to vandalize a poor child's signature by Notch and put curse words on it. All the poor kid wanted was their signature, but their pure arrogance took over. The community deserves to know about this.
Now, Notch could have used tumblr and written up a clearer statement, but I understand how angry he must be. The YogsCast's pure immaturity and attitude has rubbed off onto him, lowering his reputation. To clear his name, the blame has to be put on someone. That someone is the YogsCast.
That is all.
We haven't heard both sides yet.
I honestly do not get that. If this was in court, would you automatically side with the murderer just because they started pointing fingers first, before the other party had a chance to give a reply?
I like the Yogscast, so I want to give them a chance to give a statement before I lose my respect for them (which isn't much to begin with, in all honesty, I can never truly give respect to someone popular that I don't personally know because of the "public face does not always equal the same thing in private life" rule).
Yogcast was already pretty popular even before they started doing minecraft stuff. Why should they be sucking up to notch when they were asked to stop doing their jobs to go entertain at minecon for no pay and no pension? I don't care if they 'Play Videogames for a living' that's just as moot as complaining when you ask spock to come to a startrek convention and expect him to do it for free. And no, from what I've seen the Yogcast has been polite and respectful as you can see in these videos and . They never did vandalize the kid's signature, they joked about doing it, there's a difference.
If yogsBox you can't really deny that modders have contributed a lot to minecraft.
The mutually growing popularity of both has made Minecraft what it is today. Minecraft gave the impetus that helped Yogscast explode from a somewhat popular WoW thing into the internet mainstream; Yogscast's promotion of the game helped boost Minecraft's sales substantially. This is why it's so distressing - both sides have a lot to lose, alienating each other, yet Notch seems to think he can do throw them under a bus without repercussion. At best it shows he's rather ignorant of Yogscasts' accomplishments; at worst, that he's become very, very full of himself.