Nuggets = coins, ingots = dollars, cubes = A lot of dollars?
As a few economically-inclined people have mentioned, that wouldn't work at all. Currency should be something that can be regulated. When you have what is effectively an unlimited resource, that's pretty easily obtained to boot, it becomes harder and harder to maintain value. (What's the point in even HAVING currency when you can just go dig more out of a hole whenever you're a little short?)
If you're going to have currency (I'm not going to get into the debate over whether Minecraft should even HAVE a currency system) say make bedrock the currency; it can't be mined or created and thus can be regulated to keep inflation from occurring.
Seems like a grand idea at cursory glance, but further analysis reveals it to be a terrible idea.
Let's say, for the sake of example, we have two communities; One which uses lapis, and one which uses nuggets. Next, let's say one enterprising young lad from each community decides he wants to get rich, so they each go get lapis and nuggets in the field.
The lad from the lapis-using community must dig for some time to find any significant amount of lapis. This, combined with the fact that a) His digging is not only adding more lapis to the economy, but also stone and iron and other such things from digging into the economy, and 2) lapis is needed for blue and blue-based dyes, meaning there's lapis being taken out of circulation (if only a trickle), means that the economy regulates itself to some degree; Whenever more lapis is added to circulation, it's never a lot, and other stuff is being added, too.
However, the lad from the nugget-using community goes to the Nether to kill zombie pigmen. Not only does he get more nuggets considerably faster than he would lapis, but that's all he's likely getting in any significant quantity. Ergo, when he comes back from the Nether, he'll be adding tons and tons of nuggets to circulation, but not much else.
Post WW1 Germany found itself needing to pay some pretty hefty debts; Debts which it paid simply by making more money and giving that to the people it owed. Of course, since there was then more money, each individual unit of money was worth less. Think like collectibles; It's worth a lot because only so many of them exist. This lead to "Hyper-Inflation;" scenarios where people would go down to the grocery store with a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread, or would paper their walls with money, because it was cheaper than using the money to buy wallpaper. I can foresee similar things happening to a nugget-based Minecraft economy; Prices would simply continue to spiral upwards, since everyone would have more and more gold nuggets, but the amounts of other stuff would largely remain the same. Left unchecked, you could easily reach a scenario where buying anything was literally impossible, as no one would be able to carry enough gold nuggets in their inventory.
I had given a shot to applying the nuggets as currency on my SMP server, but in the end it just didn't work. Proportionally; gold is just not that valuable. 1 nugget per 3 health potions, 9 nuggets per powered track (combine requires 54)... and that's about it. It massively undervalues potions and only over-values tracks (we have settlements spanning nearly 1000 blocks away from each other in all directions) Using gold at all as a currency is problematic mostly because of how the value explodes or crashes depending on if anyone needs powered track at that second or not. If not for that I would give it a shot; but we have members of the community that run clearly defined 'jobs' that would support an economy if there was a sturdy standard to build off of. Farming zombie pigmen takes resources; weapons, armor, food especially. So you'd have to creatively farm more coins then it costs for the smith to make weapons, the herder to make armor (or smith to make better armor; we have people who use leather because its renewable), our farmer provides food, and I personally do potions. But then; all a miner has to do is find a few lucky veins and he already out-earns the nether warrior; and then some based on what else they bring back.
I have found that as the server evolved; barter and trade were the only ways to introduce any type of market. So I build an exchange complex at our junction rail station; and daily put up signs stating what is overstocked(cheap) or low stock(high value). Thus far it has worked out quite well. I get the farmer(someone who really hates fighting mobs, at all. To the point that she has hired our cave diver to 'patroll' her farm when she wants to work at night) to trade food and animal items for ore / tools / whatever she needs. Then the adventurers trade ores for food or potions. Its not a perfect system; but it works.
And it all depends on your populous:
Myself; I'm a sucker for clay & bricks. I just love the material.
We have one player who likes to only farm and produce food.
We have one player who goes ape over moss-stone, and nothing else.
We have one player who just likes to cave-dive, we have an explorer, a hunter, an 'architect', a redstone enthusiast, and a guy who only builds out of dirt(also exclusively uses stone tools.
Case and point(TLDR) its a nice idea; but the game in its current iteration doesn't seem built to support a currency-based economy. Especially; it is unsuitable to use gold.
Seems like a grand idea at cursory glance, but further analysis reveals it to be a terrible idea.
Let's say, for the sake of example, we have two communities; One which uses lapis, and one which uses nuggets. Next, let's say one enterprising young lad from each community decides he wants to get rich, so they each go get lapis and nuggets in the field.
The lad from the lapis-using community must dig for some time to find any significant amount of lapis. This, combined with the fact that a) His digging is not only adding more lapis to the economy, but also stone and iron and other such things from digging into the economy, and 2) lapis is needed for blue and blue-based dyes, meaning there's lapis being taken out of circulation (if only a trickle), means that the economy regulates itself to some degree; Whenever more lapis is added to circulation, it's never a lot, and other stuff is being added, too.
However, the lad from the nugget-using community goes to the Nether to kill zombie pigmen. Not only does he get more nuggets considerably faster than he would lapis, but that's all he's likely getting in any significant quantity. Ergo, when he comes back from the Nether, he'll be adding tons and tons of nuggets to circulation, but not much else.
Post WW1 Germany found itself needing to pay some pretty hefty debts; Debts which it paid simply by making more money and giving that to the people it owed. Of course, since there was then more money, each individual unit of money was worth less. Think like collectibles; It's worth a lot because only so many of them exist. This lead to "Hyper-Inflation;" scenarios where people would go down to the grocery store with a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread, or would paper their walls with money, because it was cheaper than using the money to buy wallpaper. I can foresee similar things happening to a nugget-based Minecraft economy; Prices would simply continue to spiral upwards, since everyone would have more and more gold nuggets, but the amounts of other stuff would largely remain the same. Left unchecked, you could easily reach a scenario where buying anything was literally impossible, as no one would be able to carry enough gold nuggets in their inventory.
Or just make gold nuggets very cheap, gold ingots being med, and gold blocks being valuable. Thatta way, gold ingots would be constantly taken out of the eco, making it stabilize.
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Best game ever: Ace of Spades FREE FPS minecraft-like game.
I started a thread some time ago stating that mining gold and iron should be more like mining actual ore instead of a block. Someone suggested gold nuggets, and that the block would drop a couple of them, sounds interesting?
As some people have said before me, this just won't work.
Let's say, for example, I am on a server and I want to get a diamond sword. I may have 2 stacks of iron tucked away in my hidden chest, but why do trade when I can simply go to the nether, rack up some nuggets, and buy the diamond from some random guy. Or why wouldn't I just trade some Iron anyway for the Diamond? I would. You would. Its just easier. And you would be just doing guess work, because one guy 5 minutes from your house might want 5,000 nuggets, when another 300 blocks away, someone would trade for 500. There is no set value. No set value to base it on. And having admin shops, everyone would just sell to the admin shop, so that ruins the entire point. Besides, I can spend 12 minutes to find some diamond anyway right? The point of currency is so someone who wants to be a farmer, for example, doesn't have to also mine, hunt, explore, build, and trade at the same time. Which is what people end up doing now. We definitely need currency, but this is not the answer.
What we can do
Aren't you guys forgetting? We're going to be able to trade with NPCs!Notch is most likely adding an actual item for currency, because he's not gay. This would also add a basis for people to sell items, and have something always available to the average person. it would also give someone a chance, who is willing to go an extra kilometer or two (in minecraft terms :smile.gif: ), to rack up some dough. For Instance, I sell my iron ingot to a trader for 5 whatever (dollars, coins, Blarfs etc.) when the closest npc village sells them for 3. But a faraway village might sell them for say 8, so the trader and me would be making money, in a way. This would also encourage players to explore to find better village prices, which would add a nice twist.
well gold nuggets is a good form of currency because you can stack them in gold blocks and if you get 64 gold block stack...your a rich ******* XD ,because if you multiply 64 with 81 youll know the amount of money you can get...
and also iron isnt a renewable source and it might run out so notch needs to find a way to make iron a renewable source or else we might run out of iron in our maps and we need to use fragile gold tools...
you know i have a good idea how to make iron a renewable source...
when lava sometimes collides with water it sometimes spawn not cobblestone...but also iron ore...but the chances are lower so it can be a renewable source :biggrin.gif:
I like the idea but you might have forgotten one thing.
The fact that they only are dropped by pigmen.
I would really like a currency system in the Vanilla Minecraft it's just something that has to be in there.
well gold nuggets is a good form of currency because you can stack them in gold blocks and if you get 64 gold block stack...your a rich ******* XD ,because if you multiply 64 with 81 youll know the amount of money you can get...
and also iron isnt a renewable source and it might run out so notch needs to find a way to make iron a renewable source or else we might run out of iron in our maps and we need to use fragile gold tools...
you know i have a good idea how to make iron a renewable source...
when lava sometimes collides with water it sometimes spawn not cobblestone...but also iron ore...but the chances are lower so it can be a renewable source :biggrin.gif:
create a new world and place buildings in with mcedit
Gold is absolutely renewable, and farmable. Zombie Pigmen spawn, you kill them, and pick up the nuggets they drop. Rinse and repeat. No one seems to be listening to the other more economically informed persons in this thread, but an economy based on a farmable resource would, by design, lead to infinite inflation. Money has value because it represents something of value; in real life, that's usually gold. Inflation happens when the amount of money in circulation increases, while what all that money represents remains the same. That means each individual unit of money is now representing a smaller portion of that source of wealth (gold). Bartering really is the best thing for a Minecraft economy.
Gold is absolutely renewable, and farmable. Zombie Pigmen spawn, you kill them, and pick up the nuggets they drop. Rinse and repeat. No one seems to be listening to the other more economically informed persons in this thread, but an economy based on a farmable resource would, by design, lead to infinite inflation. Money has value because it represents something of value; in real life, that's usually gold. Inflation happens when the amount of money in circulation increases, while what all that money represents remains the same. That means each individual unit of money is now representing a smaller portion of that source of wealth (gold). Bartering really is the best thing for a Minecraft economy.
World of Warcraft has an infinitely renewable economy system, and yet has a fairly stable economy. (More or less)
World of Warcraft has an infinitely renewable economy system, and yet has a fairly stable economy. (More or less)
world of warcraft economy is a little confusing because of the auction thing that you can sell enchantment ing for 1 sp but in the end people buy for 100 gp so i dont think theres a stock market in wow
but there is a stock market in runescape but it almost crashed due to bots but now,after the bot nuke...the economy is slowly rebuilding itself...
the only thing that bothers me is that iron is a non renewable source and in the end the minecraft map will eventually run out of iron due to usage and usefullness of iron tools...
so notch needs to figure out a way how to make iron a renewable source because diamonds are a non renewable source anyway :tongue.gif:
Or just make gold nuggets very cheap, gold ingots being med, and gold blocks being valuable. Thatta way, gold ingots would be constantly taken out of the eco, making it stabilize.
Gold wouldn't be removed, it would just be made into different forms. You would have to make a gold bar proportionally worth less than a nugget (so, a single bar would have to be worth as much as 8 nuggets, or less). Otherwise, you're not removing anything, you're just making your obscene amounts of money easier to carry.
World of Warcraft has an infinitely renewable economy system, and yet has a fairly stable economy. (More or less)
Faucet and Drain economy. Money enters via the "faucet" (quests, loot, etc), spins around the sink for a while (gets traded between players) before finally going down the drain (people use money to buy things from NPCs, so the money no longer exists) A Minecraft economy would have no drain, unless you did something, like, force everyone to throw x amount of gold into a local lava pit every so often (It's an RP server, so say you need to appease the Fire God or something). Of course, this wouldn't be an ideal, either, since, in the case of WoW, people aren't forced to feed their money into the drain, whereas the Minecraft players may try to hoard even more money in order to spite the enforced drain.
I don't find currency in minecraft really workable at all. I mean say I make a currency which defines all the shops on my server,then people will only mine that resource when possible. If we make Lapis Lazul a currency then everybody would try to find extreme amounts of it so they can purchase whatever they want. This upsets how much Lapis Lazul is worth and so the market becomes unbalanced. However if the people you play with will not do this then it is possible.
We just use the old give me 3 diamonds and you can have 30 iron trick. Were we haggle and try to get the best deals trading what we have. Think midevil ages trading. :smile.gif:
world of warcraft economy is a little confusing because of the auction thing that you can sell enchantment ing for 1 sp but in the end people buy for 100 gp so i dont think theres a stock market in wow
but there is a stock market in runescape but it almost crashed due to bots but now,after the bot nuke...the economy is slowly rebuilding itself...
the only thing that bothers me is that iron is a non renewable source and in the end the minecraft map will eventually run out of iron due to usage and usefullness of iron tools...
so notch needs to figure out a way how to make iron a renewable source because diamonds are a non renewable source anyway :tongue.gif:
There is way more than enough iron and since the map is expanding forever you can just mine forever. :smile.gif:
Seems like a grand idea at cursory glance, but further analysis reveals it to be a terrible idea.
Let's say, for the sake of example, we have two communities; One which uses lapis, and one which uses nuggets. Next, let's say one enterprising young lad from each community decides he wants to get rich, so they each go get lapis and nuggets in the field.
The lad from the lapis-using community must dig for some time to find any significant amount of lapis. This, combined with the fact that a) His digging is not only adding more lapis to the economy, but also stone and iron and other such things from digging into the economy, and 2) lapis is needed for blue and blue-based dyes, meaning there's lapis being taken out of circulation (if only a trickle), means that the economy regulates itself to some degree; Whenever more lapis is added to circulation, it's never a lot, and other stuff is being added, too.
However, the lad from the nugget-using community goes to the Nether to kill zombie pigmen. Not only does he get more nuggets considerably faster than he would lapis, but that's all he's likely getting in any significant quantity. Ergo, when he comes back from the Nether, he'll be adding tons and tons of nuggets to circulation, but not much else.
Post WW1 Germany found itself needing to pay some pretty hefty debts; Debts which it paid simply by making more money and giving that to the people it owed. Of course, since there was then more money, each individual unit of money was worth less. Think like collectibles; It's worth a lot because only so many of them exist. This lead to "Hyper-Inflation;" scenarios where people would go down to the grocery store with a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread, or would paper their walls with money, because it was cheaper than using the money to buy wallpaper. I can foresee similar things happening to a nugget-based Minecraft economy; Prices would simply continue to spiral upwards, since everyone would have more and more gold nuggets, but the amounts of other stuff would largely remain the same. Left unchecked, you could easily reach a scenario where buying anything was literally impossible, as no one would be able to carry enough gold nuggets in their inventory.
Exactly my thoughts, but I was too lazy to type it out. This man is completely right.
I use it as currency in the adventure map I'm making. Not like their is anything stopping the player from not using it though
Nuggets = coins, ingots = dollars, cubes = A lot of dollars?
As a few economically-inclined people have mentioned, that wouldn't work at all. Currency should be something that can be regulated. When you have what is effectively an unlimited resource, that's pretty easily obtained to boot, it becomes harder and harder to maintain value. (What's the point in even HAVING currency when you can just go dig more out of a hole whenever you're a little short?)
If you're going to have currency (I'm not going to get into the debate over whether Minecraft should even HAVE a currency system) say make bedrock the currency; it can't be mined or created and thus can be regulated to keep inflation from occurring.
Let's say, for the sake of example, we have two communities; One which uses lapis, and one which uses nuggets. Next, let's say one enterprising young lad from each community decides he wants to get rich, so they each go get lapis and nuggets in the field.
The lad from the lapis-using community must dig for some time to find any significant amount of lapis. This, combined with the fact that a) His digging is not only adding more lapis to the economy, but also stone and iron and other such things from digging into the economy, and 2) lapis is needed for blue and blue-based dyes, meaning there's lapis being taken out of circulation (if only a trickle), means that the economy regulates itself to some degree; Whenever more lapis is added to circulation, it's never a lot, and other stuff is being added, too.
However, the lad from the nugget-using community goes to the Nether to kill zombie pigmen. Not only does he get more nuggets considerably faster than he would lapis, but that's all he's likely getting in any significant quantity. Ergo, when he comes back from the Nether, he'll be adding tons and tons of nuggets to circulation, but not much else.
Post WW1 Germany found itself needing to pay some pretty hefty debts; Debts which it paid simply by making more money and giving that to the people it owed. Of course, since there was then more money, each individual unit of money was worth less. Think like collectibles; It's worth a lot because only so many of them exist. This lead to "Hyper-Inflation;" scenarios where people would go down to the grocery store with a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread, or would paper their walls with money, because it was cheaper than using the money to buy wallpaper. I can foresee similar things happening to a nugget-based Minecraft economy; Prices would simply continue to spiral upwards, since everyone would have more and more gold nuggets, but the amounts of other stuff would largely remain the same. Left unchecked, you could easily reach a scenario where buying anything was literally impossible, as no one would be able to carry enough gold nuggets in their inventory.
https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/index.jsp
because i getting gold ingots quickly...these gold nuggets are most properly,like the The West!
and will make more realistic!
I have found that as the server evolved; barter and trade were the only ways to introduce any type of market. So I build an exchange complex at our junction rail station; and daily put up signs stating what is overstocked(cheap) or low stock(high value). Thus far it has worked out quite well. I get the farmer(someone who really hates fighting mobs, at all. To the point that she has hired our cave diver to 'patroll' her farm when she wants to work at night) to trade food and animal items for ore / tools / whatever she needs. Then the adventurers trade ores for food or potions. Its not a perfect system; but it works.
And it all depends on your populous:
Myself; I'm a sucker for clay & bricks. I just love the material.
We have one player who likes to only farm and produce food.
We have one player who goes ape over moss-stone, and nothing else.
We have one player who just likes to cave-dive, we have an explorer, a hunter, an 'architect', a redstone enthusiast, and a guy who only builds out of dirt(also exclusively uses stone tools.
Case and point(TLDR) its a nice idea; but the game in its current iteration doesn't seem built to support a currency-based economy. Especially; it is unsuitable to use gold.
maybe they could be smelted in the furnace and you would get gold coins instead?
Or just make gold nuggets very cheap, gold ingots being med, and gold blocks being valuable. Thatta way, gold ingots would be constantly taken out of the eco, making it stabilize.
As some people have said before me, this just won't work.
Let's say, for example, I am on a server and I want to get a diamond sword. I may have 2 stacks of iron tucked away in my hidden chest, but why do trade when I can simply go to the nether, rack up some nuggets, and buy the diamond from some random guy. Or why wouldn't I just trade some Iron anyway for the Diamond? I would. You would. Its just easier. And you would be just doing guess work, because one guy 5 minutes from your house might want 5,000 nuggets, when another 300 blocks away, someone would trade for 500. There is no set value. No set value to base it on. And having admin shops, everyone would just sell to the admin shop, so that ruins the entire point. Besides, I can spend 12 minutes to find some diamond anyway right? The point of currency is so someone who wants to be a farmer, for example, doesn't have to also mine, hunt, explore, build, and trade at the same time. Which is what people end up doing now. We definitely need currency, but this is not the answer.
What we can do
Aren't you guys forgetting? We're going to be able to trade with NPCs!Notch is most likely adding an actual item for currency, because he's not gay. This would also add a basis for people to sell items, and have something always available to the average person. it would also give someone a chance, who is willing to go an extra kilometer or two (in minecraft terms :smile.gif: ), to rack up some dough. For Instance, I sell my iron ingot to a trader for 5 whatever (dollars, coins, Blarfs etc.) when the closest npc village sells them for 3. But a faraway village might sell them for say 8, so the trader and me would be making money, in a way. This would also encourage players to explore to find better village prices, which would add a nice twist.
and also iron isnt a renewable source and it might run out so notch needs to find a way to make iron a renewable source or else we might run out of iron in our maps and we need to use fragile gold tools...
you know i have a good idea how to make iron a renewable source...
when lava sometimes collides with water it sometimes spawn not cobblestone...but also iron ore...but the chances are lower so it can be a renewable source :biggrin.gif:
go place a gold ingot in your crafting
create a new world and place buildings in with mcedit
Selling items? It's the same farming technique but just adds 1 step in
World of Warcraft has an infinitely renewable economy system, and yet has a fairly stable economy. (More or less)
world of warcraft economy is a little confusing because of the auction thing that you can sell enchantment ing for 1 sp but in the end people buy for 100 gp so i dont think theres a stock market in wow
but there is a stock market in runescape but it almost crashed due to bots but now,after the bot nuke...the economy is slowly rebuilding itself...
the only thing that bothers me is that iron is a non renewable source and in the end the minecraft map will eventually run out of iron due to usage and usefullness of iron tools...
so notch needs to figure out a way how to make iron a renewable source because diamonds are a non renewable source anyway :tongue.gif:
Gold wouldn't be removed, it would just be made into different forms. You would have to make a gold bar proportionally worth less than a nugget (so, a single bar would have to be worth as much as 8 nuggets, or less). Otherwise, you're not removing anything, you're just making your obscene amounts of money easier to carry.
Faucet and Drain economy. Money enters via the "faucet" (quests, loot, etc), spins around the sink for a while (gets traded between players) before finally going down the drain (people use money to buy things from NPCs, so the money no longer exists) A Minecraft economy would have no drain, unless you did something, like, force everyone to throw x amount of gold into a local lava pit every so often (It's an RP server, so say you need to appease the Fire God or something). Of course, this wouldn't be an ideal, either, since, in the case of WoW, people aren't forced to feed their money into the drain, whereas the Minecraft players may try to hoard even more money in order to spite the enforced drain.
https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/index.jsp
We just use the old give me 3 diamonds and you can have 30 iron trick. Were we haggle and try to get the best deals trading what we have. Think midevil ages trading. :smile.gif:
There is way more than enough iron and since the map is expanding forever you can just mine forever. :smile.gif:
Exactly my thoughts, but I was too lazy to type it out. This man is completely right.