After some internal discussion and general anxiety, we’ve arrived at a
plan for supporting mods. It’s still a bit vague and the details might
change after we’ve run it by our lawyers, but here’s what we want to
do:
* Let players sign up as “mod developers”. This will cost money, and
will require you agreeing to a license deal (you only need one per
mod team).
* Mod developers can download the source code from our SVN repository.
As soon as we commit a change, it will be available to all mod
developers, unobfuscated and uncensored.
* Mod developers get a unique certificate for signing their mods. This
means players can see who made what mod and choose to trust individual
developers. The cost of signing up makes sure only serious developers
have access to this certificate.
The rules of the license deal will contain:
* Mods must only be playable by people who have bought Minecraft
* You can’t sell your mods or make money off them unless you’ve got a
separate license deal with us
* The mods must not be malicious (obviously)
* We retain the right to use your mod idea and implement it ourselves
in Minecraft. This is to prevent the situation where we have to avoid
adding a feature just because there’s a mod out there that does
something similar. It’s also great for dealing with bug fixes provided
by the community.
In the long term, we hope this means people will do awesome new things
with the Minecraft engine and play around with it. We want to buy
and/or license good mods and/or total conversions and sell them
ourselves. It’s possible we might have a mod marketplace for selling
and buying mods that fans have written, or we might purchase and
integrate nice mods that fit the main theme of Minecraft.
This is just the most outright stupid thing I have heard in a long, long time.
Paying to become a modder, seriously? I can't think of a single company out there that does something as ludicrous as this. Bethesda, for one, has a huge modding community and they have recognized how popular modding there games is. Valve is famous for hiring talented mod-makers.
Would either company have such a healthy community if they made modders pay for access to the tools they enjoy? No, of course not.
This is just the most outright stupid thing I have heard in a long, long time.
Paying to become a modder, seriously? I can't think of a single company out there that does something as ludicrous as this. Bethesda, for one, has a huge modding community and they have recognized how popular modding there games is. Valve is famous for hiring talented mod-makers.
Would either company have such a healthy community if they made modders pay for access to the tools they enjoy? No, of course not.
although it aren't mods... What about development for Apple's iPhone/iPod/iPad?
What about it? You just said they aren't mods and so have no purpose in a topic about mods.
1. Giving the source code is actually kind of dumb. You'll just have everyone making a hacked version of Minecraft.
2. Requiring Mod Developers to sign a contract, pay for their access to the code and have the possibility that you will steal it will force a lot of developers to just stay off of the contract so that their idea doesn't get stolen.
Seriously, just do what every other game does to help the mod community: Make an API.
i dont get why notch doesnt make minecraft opensource at some point.
He has already said he will, once development has ceased. Until then he, rightly, wants to build his business up first.
As for the modding, its a good move. It will enable good modders to make excellent mods with FULL access to the code and this bodes well for the people using said mods. Anyone posting the doom and gloom of Minecraft because of this obviously has no clue how things in the real world works.
And from his latest tweet on the matter "Most other modding tools don't include the full source code for the game, you know.." You naysayers have no idea what this guy is offering the modding community!
Legal issues as well as new security problems that will arise once people gain access to the games source are going to be extremely difficult to deal with. Furthermore, current modders may be harmed from mistrust due to a rise in malicious content created using information available in the source.
Mojang is going to have to be careful, but this seems like it could resolve a lot of problems with the current modding scene and also help the game gain benefits that are usually reserved for Open Source games.
i dont get why notch doesnt make minecraft opensource at some point.
He has already said he will, once development has ceased. Until then he, rightly, wants to build his business up first.
As for the modding, its a good move. It will enable good modders to make excellent mods with FULL access to the code and this bodes well for the people using said mods. Anyone posting the doom and gloom of Minecraft because of this obviously has no clue how things in the real world works.
And from his latest tweet on the matter "Most other modding tools don't include the full source code for the game, you know.." You naysayers have no idea what this guy is offering the modding community!
Yeah, he's offering to let you pay him to use your mods to get him more money.
The source code isn't that big of a deal. We have hundreds of awesome mods out there already. But no, not any longer it seems. Now you have to pay for the 'privilege' to mod.
The only way I can think of anyone believing this is a good idea is if Minecraft has been their introduction to PC gaming. That's it.
Epic Games and Valve (to name only a couple) gave modders almost full access to their engine. Entire games have been created from the tools these companies have allowed their customers to use completely for free. Hundreds more games out there provide players the ability to mod for free, if not actually give them a free, easy-to-use modding API.
Step 1: make people pay to make mods
Step 2: incorporate those mods in the game
Step 3: ???
Step 4: modders update the game for notch, and he even gets paid for that
[*:yboxj0em]Unfortunately the commercialization of the game wasn't set in stone from the start, i.e. notch had no idea originally how popular the project would ultimately become. Unfortunately, the money he made is nowhere near enough to keep a business running with operating costs for years on end. You do need a sustainable source of income to keep the business running.[*:yboxj0em]I was expecting some further commercialization to occur as the time goes on, but I was hoping we'd end up seeing a bit of a coherent game first. My only concern is that while they're figuring out all these "grand ideas", they're not working on getting existing functionality working. Where's the Hell/portal functionality for MP?[*:yboxj0em]Any clauses about Mojang being able to incorporate a mod without compensation to the developer needs to be removed. Nobody reasonable is going to developer under those terms.[*:yboxj0em]To the naysayers, the reality is what they're dreaming up actually does work for other markets--and it is a revenue stream they could use without hurting core gameplay. I know what we all want the reality to be but it's not the case. Xbox Live charges you for avatar items, though it doesn't really do anything--people willingly pay for the stuff to customize their character.Valve games are hugely successful and have in-game purchases for additions, such as Team Fortress 2 and Portal 2.[*:yboxj0em]What they should do is allow mod authors to commercialize their ideas from the start via an app-store of some sort. Furthermore, they should consider licensing/purchasing mods that fit well in the Minecraft core community rather than reserving any rights to take it completely.[*:yboxj0em]While this could be the end of "Minecraft as we know it", it is likely to really solidify some of the concepts around the game and make it vastly easier for users to find and install mods in comparison to the hodgepodge system we have today.
" Let players sign up as “mod developers”. This will cost money"
Will kill the community and the game.
Notch, has obviously seen a way to milk the game further, I think this SUCKS big time.
In the Alpha, Notch said that he in the future would release the game as opensource, I guess it's never gonna happen.
Kneejerk reaction. This is not going to split the community very much (if security is maintained) and will greatly improve the quality of mods released. Charging money and issuing purchase-specific certificates creates an environment in which developers are less likely to release malicious code and helps maintain a "certified" niche of mods. Something similar is done with devkits in the console gaming community.
Again, the ONLY way that this would harm the community is if people start to lose trust in coders who do not release code using the source code.
Hmmm...intriguing! I wonder how the modders will react?
There's one thing that I'd like to clear up a bit, and it's namely this:
We retain the right to use your mod idea and implement it ourselves
in Minecraft. This is to prevent the situation where we have to avoid
adding a feature just because there’s a mod out there that does
something similar. It’s also great for dealing with bug fixes provided
by the community.
We want to buy
and/or license good mods and/or total conversions and sell them
ourselves. It’s possible we might have a mod marketplace for selling
and buying mods that fans have written, or we might purchase and
integrate nice mods that fit the main theme of Minecraft.
It's interesting that one paragraph implies that Mojang has the right to take any idea, even if it exists in a fan-made mod, and put it straight into the game, whereas the other implies that Mojang needs to purchase/licence a mod if they like the idea enough. What will separate a mod that needs to be purchased and a mod that can be taken and implemented based on Mojang's right to it? I guess it will probably be the amount of code that's directly taken from the mod, ie. Mojang might use the idea of a mod, but build it up from scratch (hence, not purchasing/licencing it). I'd have to feel sorry though for a modder who pays the one-time fee and develops their idea, only to have Mojang implement the idea separately and render the mod obsolete.
Another thing I'm a tad concerned about is that it means people who work on mods on a whim or as a hobby might be put off by all this legal stuff, and the fact that they'll now have to pay a fee to be registered as an official modder. I suppose it was inevitable in the end...I hope it works out for the best. I suppose that the people most dedicated to developing Minecraft (and thus the ones most likely to sign up) are the ones who typically come out with the best mods anyway.
(Actually, this gives me a lot of hope for the Aether collaboration - I can definitely see that being purchased by Notch under this scheme.)
I'm admittedly not really familiar with how other companies have reacted to gamers modifying their code, ie. Valve apparently allowing people to mod for free, so I'm not going to comment on the actual fairness of it, since I don't feel well-informed on the issue...I'm going to wait and see what this does for the community.
Woah indeed. I think this is one of the few times I've seen Notch's blog move as quickly as the Minecraft forums.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This forum ticked me off so much I went to random.org and set my password to something I'll never be able to remember, then switched my password reset to a throwaway.
I wake up and this is what I see? Reading that has suddenly made me lose interest in actually trying to make my own mods. The community is doing a great job making mods without any API, I personally don't see the need for an API.
This idea reeks of the early days of the iOS App Store...and is just plain dumb on Notch's end. I do agree with the digital signing to prevent any "malicious" mods from being used, but that isn't really necessary to anyone smart enough to avoid shady modder who provide no info on what the mod does.
Also, in general it's not a good idea if half the forum is pissed at it.
After some internal discussion and general anxiety, we’ve arrived at a
plan for supporting mods. It’s still a bit vague and the details might
change after we’ve run it by our lawyers, but here’s what we want to
do:
* Let players sign up as “mod developers”. This will cost money, and
will require you agreeing to a license deal (you only need one per
mod team).
* Mod developers can download the source code from our SVN repository.
As soon as we commit a change, it will be available to all mod
developers, unobfuscated and uncensored.
* Mod developers get a unique certificate for signing their mods. This
means players can see who made what mod and choose to trust individual
developers. The cost of signing up makes sure only serious developers
have access to this certificate.
The rules of the license deal will contain:
* Mods must only be playable by people who have bought Minecraft
* You can’t sell your mods or make money off them unless you’ve got a
separate license deal with us
* The mods must not be malicious (obviously)
* We retain the right to use your mod idea and implement it ourselves
in Minecraft. This is to prevent the situation where we have to avoid
adding a feature just because there’s a mod out there that does
something similar. It’s also great for dealing with bug fixes provided
by the community.
In the long term, we hope this means people will do awesome new things
with the Minecraft engine and play around with it. We want to buy
and/or license good mods and/or total conversions and sell them
ourselves. It’s possible we might have a mod marketplace for selling
and buying mods that fans have written, or we might purchase and
integrate nice mods that fit the main theme of Minecraft.
Paying to become a modder, seriously? I can't think of a single company out there that does something as ludicrous as this. Bethesda, for one, has a huge modding community and they have recognized how popular modding there games is. Valve is famous for hiring talented mod-makers.
Would either company have such a healthy community if they made modders pay for access to the tools they enjoy? No, of course not.
What about it? You just said they aren't mods and so have no purpose in a topic about mods.
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Curse Premium1. Giving the source code is actually kind of dumb. You'll just have everyone making a hacked version of Minecraft.
2. Requiring Mod Developers to sign a contract, pay for their access to the code and have the possibility that you will steal it will force a lot of developers to just stay off of the contract so that their idea doesn't get stolen.
Seriously, just do what every other game does to help the mod community: Make an API.
He has already said he will, once development has ceased. Until then he, rightly, wants to build his business up first.
As for the modding, its a good move. It will enable good modders to make excellent mods with FULL access to the code and this bodes well for the people using said mods. Anyone posting the doom and gloom of Minecraft because of this obviously has no clue how things in the real world works.
And from his latest tweet on the matter "Most other modding tools don't include the full source code for the game, you know.." You naysayers have no idea what this guy is offering the modding community!
Mojang is going to have to be careful, but this seems like it could resolve a lot of problems with the current modding scene and also help the game gain benefits that are usually reserved for Open Source games.
Yeah, he's offering to let you pay him to use your mods to get him more money.
The source code isn't that big of a deal. We have hundreds of awesome mods out there already. But no, not any longer it seems. Now you have to pay for the 'privilege' to mod.
The only way I can think of anyone believing this is a good idea is if Minecraft has been their introduction to PC gaming. That's it.
Epic Games and Valve (to name only a couple) gave modders almost full access to their engine. Entire games have been created from the tools these companies have allowed their customers to use completely for free. Hundreds more games out there provide players the ability to mod for free, if not actually give them a free, easy-to-use modding API.
Paying to mod is stupid.
But I thought the modders were better than Notch or something like that...
Step 2: incorporate those mods in the game
Step 3: ???
Step 4: modders update the game for notch, and he even gets paid for that
This is just retarded.
Mod edit: Bad language and flame, warning given.
In long: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[*:yboxj0em]Unfortunately the commercialization of the game wasn't set in stone from the start, i.e. notch had no idea originally how popular the project would ultimately become. Unfortunately, the money he made is nowhere near enough to keep a business running with operating costs for years on end. You do need a sustainable source of income to keep the business running.[*:yboxj0em]I was expecting some further commercialization to occur as the time goes on, but I was hoping we'd end up seeing a bit of a coherent game first. My only concern is that while they're figuring out all these "grand ideas", they're not working on getting existing functionality working. Where's the Hell/portal functionality for MP?[*:yboxj0em]Any clauses about Mojang being able to incorporate a mod without compensation to the developer needs to be removed. Nobody reasonable is going to developer under those terms.[*:yboxj0em]To the naysayers, the reality is what they're dreaming up actually does work for other markets--and it is a revenue stream they could use without hurting core gameplay. I know what we all want the reality to be but it's not the case. Xbox Live charges you for avatar items, though it doesn't really do anything--people willingly pay for the stuff to customize their character.Valve games are hugely successful and have in-game purchases for additions, such as Team Fortress 2 and Portal 2.[*:yboxj0em]What they should do is allow mod authors to commercialize their ideas from the start via an app-store of some sort. Furthermore, they should consider licensing/purchasing mods that fit well in the Minecraft core community rather than reserving any rights to take it completely.[*:yboxj0em]While this could be the end of "Minecraft as we know it", it is likely to really solidify some of the concepts around the game and make it vastly easier for users to find and install mods in comparison to the hodgepodge system we have today.
Kneejerk reaction. This is not going to split the community very much (if security is maintained) and will greatly improve the quality of mods released. Charging money and issuing purchase-specific certificates creates an environment in which developers are less likely to release malicious code and helps maintain a "certified" niche of mods. Something similar is done with devkits in the console gaming community.
Again, the ONLY way that this would harm the community is if people start to lose trust in coders who do not release code using the source code.
I'm admittedly not really familiar with how other companies have reacted to gamers modifying their code, ie. Valve apparently allowing people to mod for free, so I'm not going to comment on the actual fairness of it, since I don't feel well-informed on the issue...I'm going to wait and see what this does for the community.
Goodie. :smile.gif: Good to see him react so quickly, haha!
It's free now apparently...
Oh thank god. I'm glad reason has prevailed.
This idea reeks of the early days of the iOS App Store...and is just plain dumb on Notch's end. I do agree with the digital signing to prevent any "malicious" mods from being used, but that isn't really necessary to anyone smart enough to avoid shady modder who provide no info on what the mod does.
Also, in general it's not a good idea if half the forum is pissed at it.