I played WoW only from day 1 to about "added rain" patch. Still, I always wanted a proper dog for a pet in a game. I am a dog person. Dog lovers like me have to settle for "what is most efficient" instead of "what is best looking" in games all the time. Back to WoW, they only now finally added a real non-wolf dog to the game. So many games do this because they get a 1-2 punch by adding a new evil creature while still adding a pet. Its always wolves. In LOTRO they use barghast models.
Fact: Wolves are not dogs.
You can't train them like dogs no matter what you believe. The same people that believe you can train a pure blooded wolf to be like a modern dog are the same people that think they can raise a tiger cub like its a house cat. Wolves do not follow the same social structures as dogs. They do not understand the concept of pointing(like 5 creatures on Earth do, not even cats do). They have not evolved the ability to tell our moods by looking at the sides of our faces. This feature makes dogs the only creature on Earth to show any complimentary evolution with humans. Physically they are different, dogs do not have the large ridged backbones. Wolves can not bark and are thought not to be inclined to imitate a bark unless they've met a dog that has barked at them.
You know, with Minecraft it would probably be really hard to tell the difference between wolf and dog since its all big blocks, but at least give us a re-skin or a different skin ID. That way we can alter the pet dog skin while keeping the wolves not looking like a roving pack of whatever pet dog we end up making a new skin for. I'd probably re-skin one as a boxer, so I don't want a roving pack of boxers attacking my chickens.
Tiger cubs are trainable, but it does take a lot of hard work. Besides, If wolves are able to reproduce, they can eventually be tamed and have an appearence change over a couple of generations. How do you think evolution works? Although I do partly agree with you that it shouldn't only be wolves added to the game, maybe dogs and wolves.
Yes, if you put breeding into the equation they can be bred domestically. I wasn't saying that things can't evolve. There is actually a really nice study of that with foxes that has been going on for 10 to 15 years. They are actively breeding several control groups, one being more domesticated, one being bred more aggressive, and one staying feral.
But that is a bit beyond the scope of the game Minecraft or this discussion.
I guess I'm saying trained =/= domesticated, and maybe Notch doesn't intend for your "pet" to be domesticated. I'd just rather see a dog than a wolf trained not to eat you.
Minecraft is a computer game involving living skeletons, zombies, giant spiders, zombie pigmen, ghasts, etc. Some things will not be realistic.
I too would prefer a pet dog over a tamed wolf. By your logic we should be breaking rocks with string, and digging dirt with a porkchop, since picks and shovels are realistic. Dogs are a perfectly good suggestion that the OP is opening for discussion. Would you like to join or just shoot it down instantly?
Umm, no offence, but dogs are kinda tacky and unoriginal in my opinion. Maybe they could make it so if you tamed a wolf, it would turn into a pet dog....? I dunno.
Minecraft is a computer game involving living skeletons, zombies, giant spiders, zombie pigmen, ghasts, etc. Some things will not be realistic.
I too would prefer a pet dog over a tamed wolf. By your logic we should be breaking rocks with string, and digging dirt with a porkchop, since picks and shovels are realistic. Dogs are a perfectly good suggestion that the OP is opening for discussion. Would you like to join or just shoot it down instantly?
No, your assertions do not follow from my comment that "Some things will not be realistic". Did you mean "shouldn't" instead of "should"? I doubt that the programmers pay too much attention to what goes on in these forums, I seem to recall reading that they don't visit the forums. Anyway, the "dog suggestion" alludes to Notch's statement that there will be dogs and wolves, the former coming from the latter. The OP is--IMO--overly concerned with the realism of that situation.
Hey OP, ever wonder HOW today's dogs came to be? Most of them are long descendants of wolves and other canines that early Humans tamed long long ago.
Simply theory.
Not saying that theory is wrong though, I personally believe it's correct.
Not "simply theory" but rather a matter of scientific evidence:
"The dog (Canis lupus familiaris and Canis lupus dingo) is a domesticated form of the gray wolf, a member of the Canidae family of the order Carnivora."
Wolves as pets? Wouldn't that just make Minecraft another trying hard, cool kid wannabe game? I'm pretty sure the pet dogs Notch would have in mind are definitely NOT wolves. Or wolflike.
Hey OP, ever wonder HOW today's dogs came to be? Most of them are long descendants of wolves and other canines that early Humans tamed long long ago.
I never once said this was not true. In fact my whole argument is based on the idea that dogs evolved from wolves. Dogs evolved behavior through 100,000's of years that Wolves simply are not capable of. These "tamed" wolves from back then would not show pet behaviors. Even if you don't believe in evolution, its a fact that what we would associate as "Pet" behavior from dogs will simply not be possible for a wolf found in the wild unless you spend several thousand generations breeding it into them. For example, wolves will not "guard" some place or someone. They do not respond to attention grabbing behavior, nor do they use such behavior themselves. I also already pointed out they dogs understand if you point to something what you expect them to do, and wolves do not.
I just want a dog. I don't know what is with all the "ah ha! I gotcha" attitudes come from.
Too many people think wolves are just wild dogs and too many game developers want to save resources by just writing the name "dog" above a wolf model. Notch said he planned on getting pet dogs and wolves at once, which lead me to believe that his plan was to do this.
My solution was to at least give us seperate skin ID's for the "pet" and the "wild" versions so we can reskin the wolf into whatever dog pet we want, while still keeping the wolves looking like wolves.
Fact: second generation (purebread) wolves (IE the "parents" were puppies when you started keeping them) are just as friendly and playful as normal dogs if you remove them from their parents. (the parents are slightly aggressive, but still wouldn't attack you more than a harmless nip unless you are just being a **** to them)
Source: a really friggen' weird friend of my dad's who has actually done just this... the wolves even stick their head out of the window while going down the road and sleep at the foot of your bed...
(basically the 'thousands of years' part is unnecessary - there have also been studies that domesticated dogs such as german shepards and goldens [basically all of the breeds that can actually survive in the wild] will act like wolves when left in the wild for a generation)
The thousands of years apart is necessary for several things you are omitting. Docile behavior is not the same as being able to train an animal to guard something, retrieve something, or several other abilities that would surely appear in a game with pets.
A wolf does not have the ability to understand nor learn what it means for you to point at someone and say "attack". That sort of behavior is present in only a few species including humans, dogs and dolphins. Our closest genetic relatives like Benobos and Chimps flunk this test, as does the next most domesticated pet, the house cat.
I think the (defunct yet still threatening) bear traps in the front lawn along with the two parent wolves keep the burglars away, though... (because burglars definitely want to rob some place that has wolves around - most people don't seem to understand that they are quite harmless until you provoke them, much like with rattle snakes - and most burglars are retarded anyways)
so I guess even he couldn't speak on the whole "guard" part of it.
I think I will have to call him now... I haven't thought of a lot of this stuff.
I wouldn't want to wake him, though... it's 11pm after all.
Minecraft is a computer game involving living skeletons, zombies, giant spiders, zombie pigmen, ghasts, etc. Some things will not be realistic.
I too would prefer a pet dog over a tamed wolf. By your logic we should be breaking rocks with string, and digging dirt with a porkchop, since picks and shovels are realistic. Dogs are a perfectly good suggestion that the OP is opening for discussion. Would you like to join or just shoot it down instantly?
No, your assertions do not follow from my comment that "Some things will not be realistic". Did you mean "shouldn't" instead of "should"? I doubt that the programmers pay too much attention to what goes on in these forums, I seem to recall reading that they don't visit the forums. Anyway, the "dog suggestion" alludes to Notch's statement that there will be dogs and wolves, the former coming from the latter. The OP is--IMO--overly concerned with the realism of that situation.
yeah, I doubt the Mojang guys spend much time in these forums, it would probably be a huge waste of their time. I don't bother posting in the suggestions forum anymore, only the bad ideas get any attention.
I guess my real reason for quoting you the first time was to point out that the topic is 'dogs vs. wolves' not 'realistic vs. unrealistic'...I certainly wasn't clear on that, and either way you're entitled to an opinion.
and speaking of being on-topic...
I live in Alaska and my aunt here owned a husky/wolf mix...it was protective, territorial, unpredictable and wouldn't hesitate to let you know if it didn't like whatever it was you were doing at the time. But it was pretty damn cool at the same time. After some re-thinking, I'd be open to the 'tamed wolf' route but would prefer if there was atleast a different skin for the pet version...a friendlier more dog-like skin. And assuming there would be wild wolves running around, this would also help to tell your pet apart from the rest.
I saw a show, some scientists put meat in a cage and put a wolf and dog up to the test, the wolf sat there for thirty minutes trying to get it, never even looked at the humans.
The dog after about 5 minutes looked up at the humans, as if to ask for assistance, you can make a wolf docile, but you can't fully domesticate them, dogs are part of the canine family, not sure if they broke off from wolfs (Most likely they did around the time humans came about.) but I personally would prefer if we would have dogs, not wolfs dogs, like a lab or a pitbull or something, even a damn boxer, I don't want some feral animal chasing me.
The thousands of years apart is necessary for several things you are omitting. Docile behavior is not the same as being able to train an animal to guard something, retrieve something, or several other abilities that would surely appear in a game with pets.
A wolf does not have the ability to understand nor learn what it means for you to point at someone and say "attack". That sort of behavior is present in only a few species including humans, dogs and dolphins. Our closest genetic relatives like Benobos and Chimps flunk this test, as does the next most domesticated pet, the house cat.
Blatant assumptions that are based on nothing other than your personal opinion invalidate your argument. You have no idea what purpose pets will serve, how they'll work, or how many will be available. You assume that since Jeb is working on a wolf that wolves are all we get. That's completely invalid. This thread is unnecessary because based on a paranoid delusion and a handful of assumptions about what the developers are planning.
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Fact: Wolves are not dogs.
You can't train them like dogs no matter what you believe. The same people that believe you can train a pure blooded wolf to be like a modern dog are the same people that think they can raise a tiger cub like its a house cat. Wolves do not follow the same social structures as dogs. They do not understand the concept of pointing(like 5 creatures on Earth do, not even cats do). They have not evolved the ability to tell our moods by looking at the sides of our faces. This feature makes dogs the only creature on Earth to show any complimentary evolution with humans. Physically they are different, dogs do not have the large ridged backbones. Wolves can not bark and are thought not to be inclined to imitate a bark unless they've met a dog that has barked at them.
You know, with Minecraft it would probably be really hard to tell the difference between wolf and dog since its all big blocks, but at least give us a re-skin or a different skin ID. That way we can alter the pet dog skin while keeping the wolves not looking like a roving pack of whatever pet dog we end up making a new skin for. I'd probably re-skin one as a boxer, so I don't want a roving pack of boxers attacking my chickens.
But that is a bit beyond the scope of the game Minecraft or this discussion.
I guess I'm saying trained =/= domesticated, and maybe Notch doesn't intend for your "pet" to be domesticated. I'd just rather see a dog than a wolf trained not to eat you.
I too would prefer a pet dog over a tamed wolf. By your logic we should be breaking rocks with string, and digging dirt with a porkchop, since picks and shovels are realistic. Dogs are a perfectly good suggestion that the OP is opening for discussion. Would you like to join or just shoot it down instantly?
All right everyone, if we don't buy Lamborghinis for one day, the price will go way down and then we can all afford one. It's Economics!
Simply theory.
Not saying that theory is wrong though, I personally believe it's correct.
No, your assertions do not follow from my comment that "Some things will not be realistic". Did you mean "shouldn't" instead of "should"? I doubt that the programmers pay too much attention to what goes on in these forums, I seem to recall reading that they don't visit the forums. Anyway, the "dog suggestion" alludes to Notch's statement that there will be dogs and wolves, the former coming from the latter. The OP is--IMO--overly concerned with the realism of that situation.
Not "simply theory" but rather a matter of scientific evidence:
"The dog (Canis lupus familiaris and Canis lupus dingo) is a domesticated form of the gray wolf, a member of the Canidae family of the order Carnivora."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog
Look it up elsewhere, in case you're anti-Wiki.
Wolves as pets? Wouldn't that just make Minecraft another trying hard, cool kid wannabe game? I'm pretty sure the pet dogs Notch would have in mind are definitely NOT wolves. Or wolflike.
I never once said this was not true. In fact my whole argument is based on the idea that dogs evolved from wolves. Dogs evolved behavior through 100,000's of years that Wolves simply are not capable of. These "tamed" wolves from back then would not show pet behaviors. Even if you don't believe in evolution, its a fact that what we would associate as "Pet" behavior from dogs will simply not be possible for a wolf found in the wild unless you spend several thousand generations breeding it into them. For example, wolves will not "guard" some place or someone. They do not respond to attention grabbing behavior, nor do they use such behavior themselves. I also already pointed out they dogs understand if you point to something what you expect them to do, and wolves do not.
I just want a dog. I don't know what is with all the "ah ha! I gotcha" attitudes come from.
Too many people think wolves are just wild dogs and too many game developers want to save resources by just writing the name "dog" above a wolf model. Notch said he planned on getting pet dogs and wolves at once, which lead me to believe that his plan was to do this.
My solution was to at least give us seperate skin ID's for the "pet" and the "wild" versions so we can reskin the wolf into whatever dog pet we want, while still keeping the wolves looking like wolves.
Anyone else got suggestions or votes for dogs?
Source: a really friggen' weird friend of my dad's who has actually done just this... the wolves even stick their head out of the window while going down the road and sleep at the foot of your bed...
(basically the 'thousands of years' part is unnecessary - there have also been studies that domesticated dogs such as german shepards and goldens [basically all of the breeds that can actually survive in the wild] will act like wolves when left in the wild for a generation)
A wolf does not have the ability to understand nor learn what it means for you to point at someone and say "attack". That sort of behavior is present in only a few species including humans, dogs and dolphins. Our closest genetic relatives like Benobos and Chimps flunk this test, as does the next most domesticated pet, the house cat.
I think the (defunct yet still threatening) bear traps in the front lawn along with the two parent wolves keep the burglars away, though... (because burglars definitely want to rob some place that has wolves around - most people don't seem to understand that they are quite harmless until you provoke them, much like with rattle snakes - and most burglars are retarded anyways)
so I guess even he couldn't speak on the whole "guard" part of it.
I think I will have to call him now... I haven't thought of a lot of this stuff.
I wouldn't want to wake him, though... it's 11pm after all.
I will get back to you in the morning.
yeah, I doubt the Mojang guys spend much time in these forums, it would probably be a huge waste of their time. I don't bother posting in the suggestions forum anymore, only the bad ideas get any attention.
I guess my real reason for quoting you the first time was to point out that the topic is 'dogs vs. wolves' not 'realistic vs. unrealistic'...I certainly wasn't clear on that, and either way you're entitled to an opinion.
and speaking of being on-topic...
I live in Alaska and my aunt here owned a husky/wolf mix...it was protective, territorial, unpredictable and wouldn't hesitate to let you know if it didn't like whatever it was you were doing at the time. But it was pretty damn cool at the same time. After some re-thinking, I'd be open to the 'tamed wolf' route but would prefer if there was atleast a different skin for the pet version...a friendlier more dog-like skin. And assuming there would be wild wolves running around, this would also help to tell your pet apart from the rest.
That's my two cents, spend em how ya please.
The dog after about 5 minutes looked up at the humans, as if to ask for assistance, you can make a wolf docile, but you can't fully domesticate them, dogs are part of the canine family, not sure if they broke off from wolfs (Most likely they did around the time humans came about.) but I personally would prefer if we would have dogs, not wolfs dogs, like a lab or a pitbull or something, even a damn boxer, I don't want some feral animal chasing me.
To a certain extent, not to a dogs level, but yes, it can.
Blatant assumptions that are based on nothing other than your personal opinion invalidate your argument. You have no idea what purpose pets will serve, how they'll work, or how many will be available. You assume that since Jeb is working on a wolf that wolves are all we get. That's completely invalid. This thread is unnecessary because based on a paranoid delusion and a handful of assumptions about what the developers are planning.
Dude
This is a game where you fight the undead, break trees with your bare hands, and light fire by swinging a metal bar at the ground.
Wolves can turn into dogs in this universe.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... bleFanbase