I don't usually get involved in these pitched battles about sundry issues on the internet - particularly those as shrill and unpleasant as the debates over Notch's alleged laziness, lack of updates etc.
However, I have noticed that since the rate of updates has dropped off, Notch has changed the "Copyright Information" section on minecraft.net. When I bought the game, it was on the understanding that I was pre-ordering the finished game, and that the alpha version was a preview. Now the copyright information section reads "Although we are very passionate about this project, we cannot guarantee that it will be completed[...] When you purchase the game, you pay for it as it is right now. Future updates are an added bonus." I feel that this is dishonest. Having already paid for the finished game, I am now given to understand that it may never be completed at all.
I have given this some thought, and as a matter of principle I have decided that I am going to try to get my €10 back from Notch. I have really enjoyed playing Minecraft, but this feels too much like a rip-off. I intend to email Notch, explaining my concerns, and if I receive no reply within a reasonable time (say about 3 weeks), then I will dispute the charge with Paypal. If I succeed in getting a refund, I will donate it to the creator of Dwarf Fortress, in order to continue the support of indie game development.
Thank you for reading my post. I would be interested to hear your responses, and I'm curious as to anyone else has noticed this irregularity. Please try to keep flames and personal attacks to a minimum however, even if you disagree with me, as I have done my best to be polite and honest, and I ask that you do the same. Just look at the comment threads on Notch's blog...
Don't have PayPal do a chargeback, that's rude. Especially when you're just getting money back for changed terms of service. He'll finish the game. If you really think only €10 was too much for a game about to go into beta, then fine, ask him for your money back and as long as you haven't had it more than 30 days, he'll give it back. But if it's been over 30 days, you don't get your money back and having PayPal charge him back will end up going into a legal dispute between Notch's lawyer and PayPal since it's in the terms that after 30 days all sales are final.
Seems a little silly to demand your money back simply because you don't like changes in his terms of service or whatever. And it's probably far too late to ask PayPal for a refund.
Besides, you asking for a refund from PayPal may cause them to go ballistic and freeze his account again and you wouldn't want him losing several tens of thousands of dollars...right?
Now the copyright information section reads "Although we are very passionate about this project, we cannot guarantee that it will be completed[...] When you purchase the game, you pay for it as it is right now. Future updates are an added bonus." I feel that this is dishonest. Having already paid for the finished game, I am now given to understand that it may never be completed at all.
can you guarantee you will survive to be 80? can you guarantee you will get married (if not already happened)?
you cant really GUARANTEE anything... unless it already happened
theres a very small chance that it wont get finished, and when you said its dishonest because you already payed for the finished game, you didnt pay for the finished game, you paid for the alpha version and any updates that follow
"Future updates are an added bonus." retard
I personally think that Notch is just covering all his bases. Agreeing with Bilkokuya here in saying that the final finished game might not all that you expect it to be. After all, he hasn't layed out any kind of format as to what the final game would include (or has he?). So far, he's just been updating it with more and more features and content and fixes. I honestly don't know what would make the game beta and what would make it finished.
Can we be more litigious? I'm amazed at how law oriented people are in our society. Being able to sue because he changed the terms without a prior existing clause to change the terms at a later date. WOW! He's a guy trying to make a living and people want to sue over $10? The media would turn him into the next Bernie Madoff!
Notch will want to develop minecraft for as long as he can as its generating him alot of money each day. If he stops development, the amount of people giving him money will drop. So because humans always want more money, he is likely to keep developing minecraft for as long as people are giving him money.
Most MMO Games for example have a bit in the license agreement that states they can terminate your account without any reason. That doesn't mean they will go around randomly terminating accounts for the fun of it. Its just a way to insure they can protect the other users from people that try to do negative things without having to have that specific negative thing listed in an agreement.
Good luck trying to get your money back. PayPal will laugh at you and say "Nope, you are no longer within the 30-day money-back period." Now THAT part was always in there, to my knowledge, and I'm sure you bought it more than 30 days ago if you're referring to what was in the copyright info that long ago.
Also, there's a huge update (I could be wrong, but possibly the biggest yet?) coming on the 31st, you know that right?
Jeeze, why does everyone have to be so pissy over everything these days?
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I think he should be able to get his money back if he doesn't like the new terms of service. Notch has seemed to show a lack of interest earlier, and we really don't know anything about the Halloween update until it comes out.
I think he should be able to get his money back if he doesn't like the new terms of service. Notch has seemed to show a lack of interest earlier,
I believe both Terms of Service agreements stated that you may request a refund within 30 days of purchase. It sounds like he bought it well more than 30 days ago. Using that logic, would I be able to ask Blizzard for my money back because the End User License Agreement (EULA) for World of Warcraft changes every patch? If I click "disagree", do I get my money back? Nope. This person should not either.
If you don't agree with the new terms, that's fine. Don't expect any money back, though.
and we really don't know anything about the Halloween update until it comes out.
I now play League of Legends! If you are interested in trying this FREE game, click my ---->REFERRAL LINK!<---- There are NO fees, NO premium-only champions. You can unlock ALL the champions without paying a DIME! Check it out! If you sign up using my link, I get cool bonus stuff! I'll teach you the basics of the game if you'd like, as thanks!
"Notch defense force comes through again!" No matter whether it was "to cover all his bases" or not, in my country, that my friends, is called a Bait and Switch tacic and is illegal. It doesn't matter if the game is 10 euros or 10 million euros. Notch is a multimillionaire and WILL be facing legal action if he abandons the game in alpha to make a "Space Trading game done right" or a stupid flash airplane game.
People here would still be saying "cry moar dud" even if Notch robbed a bank.
ToS and EULA exist to keep dirtbags from suing if something unforeseen causes an agreement to somehow not be unfulfillable. If Notch dies, and the game is not developed further, this prevents his estate from getting sued.
Don't be a dirtbag, the game is ridiculously cheap as it exists now, and I guarantee you got your money's worth by now. Threatening to demand a refund (good luck) and give that money to a different developer (better check their ToS!) is just petty and ludicrous.
You guys may have a point, but the way you're making it is about as obnoxious as you can be. You come off as scheming dirtbags (to borrow what someone else said) who want nothing more than to nail notch at the first sign of you not getting what you want. I don't think you guys are that way, but with the way you're complaining now...
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What use is an ear that does not hear, or a mouth that does not speak?
Knytt, you're telling me you haven't bothered to compare the two, but you still know what you're talking about? The meaning _has_ changed, drastically. That's why I'm complaining, strangely enough.
I don't care how much value you all think I've got out of the game, that's completely beside the point. The point is, Notch got my €10 on the understanding I was pre-ordering the complete game. Now he's saying he might never complete it. You can't sell people one thing and give them something else.
I don't see why insults and personal attacks are necessary. As for the guy who was wringing his hands about "our litigious society", what makes you think I'm even American?
Knytt, you're telling me you haven't bothered to compare the two, but you still know what you're talking about? The meaning _has_ changed, drastically. That's why I'm complaining, strangely enough.
I don't care how much value you all think I've got out of the game, that's completely beside the point. The point is, Notch got my €10 on the understanding I was pre-ordering the complete game. Now he's saying he might never complete it. You can't sell people one thing and give them something else.
I don't see why insults and personal attacks are necessary. As for the guy who was wringing his hands about "our litigious society", what makes you think I'm even American?
AFAIK, that agreement has always been there. Any impressions otherwise would have been given by the (admittedly confusing) pre-purchase logo. But, since people seem to think that a logo is more binding than the actual fine print...
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What use is an ear that does not hear, or a mouth that does not speak?
AFAIK, that agreement has always been there. Any impressions otherwise would have been given by the (admittedly confusing) pre-purchase logo. But, since people seem to think that a logo is more binding than the actual fine print...
How many times do I have to tell you, the agreement was different before. The "fine print" was different before. I'm not basing my claim on the logo. Please read my posts before answering.
AFAIK, that agreement has always been there. Any impressions otherwise would have been given by the (admittedly confusing) pre-purchase logo. But, since people seem to think that a logo is more binding than the actual fine print...
How many times do I have to tell you, the agreement was different before. The "fine print" was different before. I'm not basing my claim on the logo. Please read my posts before answering.
And this is the point where i ask for proof. Unless you saved a copy of the old ToS that shows he didn't say this before, you have absolutely no case.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What use is an ear that does not hear, or a mouth that does not speak?
However, I have noticed that since the rate of updates has dropped off, Notch has changed the "Copyright Information" section on minecraft.net. When I bought the game, it was on the understanding that I was pre-ordering the finished game, and that the alpha version was a preview. Now the copyright information section reads "Although we are very passionate about this project, we cannot guarantee that it will be completed[...] When you purchase the game, you pay for it as it is right now. Future updates are an added bonus." I feel that this is dishonest. Having already paid for the finished game, I am now given to understand that it may never be completed at all.
I have given this some thought, and as a matter of principle I have decided that I am going to try to get my €10 back from Notch. I have really enjoyed playing Minecraft, but this feels too much like a rip-off. I intend to email Notch, explaining my concerns, and if I receive no reply within a reasonable time (say about 3 weeks), then I will dispute the charge with Paypal. If I succeed in getting a refund, I will donate it to the creator of Dwarf Fortress, in order to continue the support of indie game development.
Thank you for reading my post. I would be interested to hear your responses, and I'm curious as to anyone else has noticed this irregularity. Please try to keep flames and personal attacks to a minimum however, even if you disagree with me, as I have done my best to be polite and honest, and I ask that you do the same. Just look at the comment threads on Notch's blog...
Edit: changed some grammar
Besides, you asking for a refund from PayPal may cause them to go ballistic and freeze his account again and you wouldn't want him losing several tens of thousands of dollars...right?
can you guarantee you will survive to be 80? can you guarantee you will get married (if not already happened)?
you cant really GUARANTEE anything... unless it already happened
theres a very small chance that it wont get finished, and when you said its dishonest because you already payed for the finished game, you didnt pay for the finished game, you paid for the alpha version and any updates that follow
"Future updates are an added bonus." retard
Made by Me
Most MMO Games for example have a bit in the license agreement that states they can terminate your account without any reason. That doesn't mean they will go around randomly terminating accounts for the fun of it. Its just a way to insure they can protect the other users from people that try to do negative things without having to have that specific negative thing listed in an agreement.
Minecraft Info - Game Requirements - Minecraft Screensaver - MCI Craft
Also, there's a huge update (I could be wrong, but possibly the biggest yet?) coming on the 31st, you know that right?
Jeeze, why does everyone have to be so pissy over everything these days?
I believe both Terms of Service agreements stated that you may request a refund within 30 days of purchase. It sounds like he bought it well more than 30 days ago. Using that logic, would I be able to ask Blizzard for my money back because the End User License Agreement (EULA) for World of Warcraft changes every patch? If I click "disagree", do I get my money back? Nope. This person should not either.
If you don't agree with the new terms, that's fine. Don't expect any money back, though.
Yes we do...
People here would still be saying "cry moar dud" even if Notch robbed a bank.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch
Don't be a dirtbag, the game is ridiculously cheap as it exists now, and I guarantee you got your money's worth by now. Threatening to demand a refund (good luck) and give that money to a different developer (better check their ToS!) is just petty and ludicrous.
I don't care how much value you all think I've got out of the game, that's completely beside the point. The point is, Notch got my €10 on the understanding I was pre-ordering the complete game. Now he's saying he might never complete it. You can't sell people one thing and give them something else.
I don't see why insults and personal attacks are necessary. As for the guy who was wringing his hands about "our litigious society", what makes you think I'm even American?
AFAIK, that agreement has always been there. Any impressions otherwise would have been given by the (admittedly confusing) pre-purchase logo. But, since people seem to think that a logo is more binding than the actual fine print...
How many times do I have to tell you, the agreement was different before. The "fine print" was different before. I'm not basing my claim on the logo. Please read my posts before answering.
And this is the point where i ask for proof. Unless you saved a copy of the old ToS that shows he didn't say this before, you have absolutely no case.
I never assumed you were American. We are a global society, and that's what I meant by society. It has nothing to do with nationality anymore.