I find the whole discussion about ways to prevent griefing stupid, Minecraft as the game that is now requires freedom, every solution I have ever seen suggested is counter intuitive, it requires that people are limited in what they can do. If I build a castle and then someone comes along and takes it down to build a hotel or spleef arena, so be it.
A sandbox game lets players play the way they choose by presenting numerous gameplay options - in the same way a real sandbox lets children play ...
The bottom line is this: If you want to build anything that you care about and want as a permanent feature, build it privately. It's simple. I for one will not be pleased if any game changing features ever get implemented: How can I have fun when I have to wait for an admin to grant me permission to build, or if I can't build because Edward put down a red block and marked it as unbreakable?
It's silly to suggest that Notch takes away the freedom we require to build amazing things just because some people grief, every game has griefing and every solution restricts our freedom.
It is entirely understandable that you dislike griefing: I absolutely despise it as well, but if the game were to be modified to make it harder to grief, it would become harder to build. Freedom is what is so brilliant about minecraft; as a player you're in full control of your experience, if we were limited to where we could place or when we could place it'd make the game a lot less fun.
Agreed. It's like lego. As a kid I built with lego a lot and when I was out of bricks I would have to break things that I really loved. After destroying though I would always build something even more awesome.
You can't have creation without destruction.
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This text is just here to take up space. Congratulations. You found it!-Zachariasmith
There is also a fine line between greifing and expanding on some one else's works. Its amazing how many people out there nerd rage if you so much as put one block on their stuff then scream Griefer. Its meant to be a collaborative world, where people build off each other's ideas (literally). Lastly there is the unfortunate problem of limited space. Some buildings are going to have to come down eventually for other players to build. Get over it. Your little hut isn't the best thing ever. Take a screenshot if you want it to be immortalized.
My final say is this: stop being so damn selfish.
The best anti-griefing solution has nothing to do with gameplay: make the game pay only. Most of the griefers are gone with that, simple.
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Hear hear! People should take a look at GMod. Even with all of its complicated ownership systems, people still find a way to be mingebags there. Even if Minecraft were to implement some kind of anti-griefing system, something else would pop up. We get sponges to combat flooding, and griefers sponge spam everything. It's just how it is.
These people get a kick out of annoying/pissing off other people, so they'll find a way to do it. Right now, that's deleting structures, usually the biggest/best ones. Because they know that'll have the biggest ****-off impact. There's also the swastika spam, because they think it offends people. These people will find a way to grief, no matter what "rules" are put into place. If ownership were introduced, do you know what the first thing everyone would start complaining about would be? Griefers running around placing blocks randomly all over the map. We couldn't delete them, so they would just make a big cluttered mess. The more creative ones would stick random blocks into people's structures in progress, to hinder what they were building. Again, they will find a way. They will never go away, or be fixed.
The statement in the topic was something I knew well (sort of going along with the saying "Nothing is perfect"), and assumed everyone else knew as well... I had thought in my head "You can't stop them", and no matter what "they" are, "they" will always find ways through to cause inconveniences.
It's like when I used to play MapleStory, the company decided to start putting in swear filters to keep MapleStory as a family game, which meant that if you said the word, your entire sentence was blocked and you would have to retype. People would find ways through the filter such as putting spaces in between each letter. The company found out about this and started programming the filters so that they would ignore spaces. This went on, expanding so that lots of different words were censored, and it was driving everyone crazy; things like "Smash it" would get blocked and would delay what the players were trying to really say. Even simpler things like "Get it" would be blocked as well. What the company ended up doing was not stopping people from swearing (they would find ways around it by typing "fck" or "sht", which were later blocked, but then they would start typing "fk"...), but stopping people from speaking. If Notch were to try to stop inevitable inconveniences such as griefers, something frustrating just like this would end up happening. There's really no need to try and stop them, because they'll always find ways through, such as spawn prisons which don't work entirely (griefers can act trustworthy and then grief it up when your backs are turned). People just have to learn to accept that bad things occur, just like in real life. Nothing can or will be entirely perfect.
Frankly, I disagree. Private servers are fantastic for safety and I run one myself 24/7, but it's a lot of fun to mix in people you don't know. If that could be done without griefers, it would be perfect. I already have only people that I let in; being able to change building permissions would be exactly the same as my private server except that I could let in new people. Of course, this is totally moot because I can already do that with spawn prisons, which I intend to use.
Measures can be taken, and I think the price is acceptable. It would certainly be worth the added safety.
Thank you for saying what has been on my mind for weeks squid. The crucial feature that makes this game (and others like it - Looking at you, Blockland and Infiniminer) so awesome is the fact that it is a sandbox, and there is freedom. I don't want to see this game ****ed up because the little boys playing it are sad when their houses and spleefing arenas get destroyed.
The creativity that can be unleashed in this game due to its sandbox nature is immense, and the proof of that can be clearly seen with how popular this game has become. If you don't like it, leave. If you can't take losing hours of work, leave. I know you guys hate to see your work gone, but don't do it to last, do it for fun. Enjoy it while it's there, take screenshots, move on. If you want a private server to build on where your stuff will be stored forever, I have set up a system where you can get one all to yourself, free. In fact, I've even integrated it into MC itself. Just press Single Player on the front screen.
If I see another anti-griefing thread, or another request asking me to make a private server, my head is going to explode. Go play Gary's Mod or whatever is popular these days. And stop asking if this game is going to be like [x]. It's not. So just leave it at that.
PS (edit), **** the servers with spawn prisons. Anything that you do like that is just hampering building. In fact, I propose that everyone here leaves when they arrive at a server with a spawn prison. No admins on? Shut your ****ing server down. Don't make me waste my time realizing that some admin is too much of a child to keep backups, and builds everything out of op-blocks. This is why I was against them in the first place.
The only anti-griefing method I liked was the idea of a maze (made of opcrete), it puts off the casual griefer rather successfully. Bar this, I agree with the other sentiments that it is pointless, and I especially loathe spawn prisons. If you don't want it damaged while you're away, take the server down...
Not if that preventative measure happens to kill innocent people, but ya. Spawn prisons are just elitism. Its the notion that we don't trust any newcomer to the server for whatever reason. And in all honesty you shouldn't be "cleaning up" after greifers. Build something else already, thats the fun part.
[Edit]Woops, had more but it doesn't belong in this tread. Removed.
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So you are saying something I spent several hours on, which I want as many people possible to see and enjoy, should be left to be destroyed meaninglessley?
Yes, griefers will always exist. But, griefers destroy just cause they can. If you can stop them. Then you would? Right?
That's like saying; "Some people use the internet to break the law so we should ban everyone from the internet!". It doesn't work; preventing griefers through the majority of methods affects legitimate and proper players.
Quote from Arzock »
So you are saying something I spent several hours on, which I want as many people possible to see and enjoy, should be left to be destroyed meaninglessley?
I'm saying that if you care so much about a structure that you'll be upset when it's deleted; you should play on private servers. Why should legitimate players be restricted in their creativity by stupid rules to stop griefers when those who are upset by griefers can play elsewhere?
Cages filter out griefers, but regular players, too. It's all depending on whether the server values their creators or their creations more. Personally, I don't find if servers are caged or not. Caging is effecient, but maybe for the lesser good...
So you are saying something I spent several hours on, which I want as many people possible to see and enjoy, should be left to be destroyed meaninglessley?
Yes. It is 100% the nature of the game.
[Edit]It may also not even be destroyed meaninglessly. What if some one wants some space for their creation?
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MineCraft Server Operator v0.3b
Votekick/voteban, remote access, automated backups, cross-platform and more.
Control your server.
The bottom line is this: If you want to build anything that you care about and want as a permanent feature, build it privately. It's simple. I for one will not be pleased if any game changing features ever get implemented: How can I have fun when I have to wait for an admin to grant me permission to build, or if I can't build because Edward put down a red block and marked it as unbreakable?
It's silly to suggest that Notch takes away the freedom we require to build amazing things just because some people grief, every game has griefing and every solution restricts our freedom.
It is entirely understandable that you dislike griefing: I absolutely despise it as well, but if the game were to be modified to make it harder to grief, it would become harder to build. Freedom is what is so brilliant about minecraft; as a player you're in full control of your experience, if we were limited to where we could place or when we could place it'd make the game a lot less fun.
You can't have creation without destruction.
There is also a fine line between greifing and expanding on some one else's works. Its amazing how many people out there nerd rage if you so much as put one block on their stuff then scream Griefer. Its meant to be a collaborative world, where people build off each other's ideas (literally). Lastly there is the unfortunate problem of limited space. Some buildings are going to have to come down eventually for other players to build. Get over it. Your little hut isn't the best thing ever. Take a screenshot if you want it to be immortalized.
My final say is this: stop being so damn selfish.
The best anti-griefing solution has nothing to do with gameplay: make the game pay only. Most of the griefers are gone with that, simple.
Votekick/voteban, remote access, automated backups, cross-platform and more.
Control your server.
These people get a kick out of annoying/pissing off other people, so they'll find a way to do it. Right now, that's deleting structures, usually the biggest/best ones. Because they know that'll have the biggest ****-off impact. There's also the swastika spam, because they think it offends people. These people will find a way to grief, no matter what "rules" are put into place. If ownership were introduced, do you know what the first thing everyone would start complaining about would be? Griefers running around placing blocks randomly all over the map. We couldn't delete them, so they would just make a big cluttered mess. The more creative ones would stick random blocks into people's structures in progress, to hinder what they were building. Again, they will find a way. They will never go away, or be fixed.
It's like when I used to play MapleStory, the company decided to start putting in swear filters to keep MapleStory as a family game, which meant that if you said the word, your entire sentence was blocked and you would have to retype. People would find ways through the filter such as putting spaces in between each letter. The company found out about this and started programming the filters so that they would ignore spaces. This went on, expanding so that lots of different words were censored, and it was driving everyone crazy; things like "Smash it" would get blocked and would delay what the players were trying to really say. Even simpler things like "Get it" would be blocked as well. What the company ended up doing was not stopping people from swearing (they would find ways around it by typing "fck" or "sht", which were later blocked, but then they would start typing "fk"...), but stopping people from speaking. If Notch were to try to stop inevitable inconveniences such as griefers, something frustrating just like this would end up happening. There's really no need to try and stop them, because they'll always find ways through, such as spawn prisons which don't work entirely (griefers can act trustworthy and then grief it up when your backs are turned). People just have to learn to accept that bad things occur, just like in real life. Nothing can or will be entirely perfect.
DON''T BUILD ANYTHING YOU WANT TO KEEP ON PUBLIC SERVERS!
Make it on your own map and save it! Problem solved, no greifers can destroy it!
Measures can be taken, and I think the price is acceptable. It would certainly be worth the added safety.
Relic of a bygone age.
Well, spawn prisons take that one step further. It's like prevention is better than cure.
Preventing griefers is better than cleaning up their mess.
The creativity that can be unleashed in this game due to its sandbox nature is immense, and the proof of that can be clearly seen with how popular this game has become. If you don't like it, leave. If you can't take losing hours of work, leave. I know you guys hate to see your work gone, but don't do it to last, do it for fun. Enjoy it while it's there, take screenshots, move on. If you want a private server to build on where your stuff will be stored forever, I have set up a system where you can get one all to yourself, free. In fact, I've even integrated it into MC itself. Just press Single Player on the front screen.
If I see another anti-griefing thread, or another request asking me to make a private server, my head is going to explode. Go play Gary's Mod or whatever is popular these days. And stop asking if this game is going to be like [x]. It's not. So just leave it at that.
PS (edit), **** the servers with spawn prisons. Anything that you do like that is just hampering building. In fact, I propose that everyone here leaves when they arrive at a server with a spawn prison. No admins on? Shut your ****ing server down. Don't make me waste my time realizing that some admin is too much of a child to keep backups, and builds everything out of op-blocks. This is why I was against them in the first place.
Not if that preventative measure happens to kill innocent people, but ya. Spawn prisons are just elitism. Its the notion that we don't trust any newcomer to the server for whatever reason. And in all honesty you shouldn't be "cleaning up" after greifers. Build something else already, thats the fun part.
[Edit]Woops, had more but it doesn't belong in this tread. Removed.
Votekick/voteban, remote access, automated backups, cross-platform and more.
Control your server.
That's like saying; "Some people use the internet to break the law so we should ban everyone from the internet!". It doesn't work; preventing griefers through the majority of methods affects legitimate and proper players.
I'm saying that if you care so much about a structure that you'll be upset when it's deleted; you should play on private servers. Why should legitimate players be restricted in their creativity by stupid rules to stop griefers when those who are upset by griefers can play elsewhere?
And cages are an effective method.
Yes. It is 100% the nature of the game.
[Edit]It may also not even be destroyed meaninglessly. What if some one wants some space for their creation?
Votekick/voteban, remote access, automated backups, cross-platform and more.
Control your server.
In-game name: Arcterion