Personally I don't see an issue with the standard hostile mob cap, but I do have issues with both entity and passive mob counts including villagers. Lets take a moment to look at these in details and how they impact gameplay.
First lets look at entities, the issue here is that anything that is dropped is an entity, and its shared with item frames as well. Sure items 'merge', and I believe the max count is somewhere around 200 entities, but this is a serious joke. 200 sounds like a lot, buts its seriously limiting, if one has say 20 or so item frames, you already down to 180 entities, Now lets say you want to use a splash potion to kill off a good number of mobs, your going to loose out on exp and or drops, because each exp orb is a entity, they don't merge, ect. Very few of us use splash potions to kill numbers of mobs just because of this reason. In essence you get more exp killing them off one by one, rather then a group, so controlled TNT isn't used, ect. This count needs at least doubled, if not tripled.
Passive mobs, personally i feel that there really shouldn't be a count on this, and that the game should take a more PC approach, where it has a chance to spawn animals when the chunk is created, after that its extremely low chance of spawning animals. This would actually encourage breeding, and taking care not to kill off all the animals around us. Right now I don't run any type of animal farm other then sheep simply because its way to easy to run around for 5 minutes killing pigs/cows/chickens to get enough meat to last a couple of days. I think if people want to have a 500 cow farm then let them. 4J has taken it upon themselves to say no we won't let you lag your game with too many animals. We should have this choice and most players know that if the game is lagging because they have too many animals they'll kill a bunch off. Point is let us make the choice of how many passives we wish to keep. Yes the above alters gameplay but I think its for the best, and i think most will agree.
Villagers count of 50 is another joke, it needs at least doubled, if not tripled. I understand that infinite village breeding can take place, but I have tested worlds with more then 800 villagers, and the xbox one handled them with next to no lag. This test was also coupled with a 64 stacked village producing iron golems, where i had over 200 iron golems. (800 villagers, 200 iron golems), and no noticeable lag. (2 players). The the console can defiantly handle increased villagers/golems.
In respects to hostile mob limits, what has to take place is no so much a bump to the count, but more so fixed rates of spawn. The spawn rates of changed considerably, and this has seriously slowed down farms efficiency. If one looks at say an efficient endermen farm, its not hard to tell that the number of endermen isn't the issue, its the time it takes for the farm to actually restalk itself. I've done tests using the same farm on the PC/xbox one. The minute I begin killing off the endermen on the PC, they are very quickly replaced with new endermen, where the xbox one seems to take nearly 4x longer to spawn in additional endermen. I believe this is because back several versions (when witches were introduced and neither fortresses), 4J didn't use structure data, and this caused witches/neither fortresses to only work the first time they were loaded, after that they stopped working, in order to fix this they needed to alter the mob spawn code, and this additional code caused alot of overhead, and thus they at least halved (if not quartered) the speed it used to run at. Going back to endermen farms I can remember having a hard time killing off the endermen within my farm, for as quickly as I killed them off they were replaced with new ones, this simply isn't the case now.
Now spawners on the other hand are a total different case. On the PC, spawners can go above and beyond the mob count, in fact if left unchecked these spawners can cause serious lag. I once accidentally left for 4 hours and came back there were over 3000 mobs, so bad was the lag the only way for me to solve it was to switch to peaceful. If they wish to impose a cap, spawners should have the option to go above and beyond it, so if they maintained the 75 mob limit, spawners should allow that limit to be 2x what it is, (IMHO)
Anyhow sorry about the wall of text, but these are just my thoughts.
Personally I don't see an issue with the standard hostile mob cap, but I do have issues with both entity and passive mob counts including villagers. Lets take a moment to look at these in details and how they impact gameplay.
First lets look at entities, the issue here is that anything that is dropped is an entity, and its shared with item frames as well. Sure items 'merge', and I believe the max count is somewhere around 200 entities, but this is a serious joke. 200 sounds like a lot, buts its seriously limiting, if one has say 20 or so item frames, you already down to 180 entities, Now lets say you want to use a splash potion to kill off a good number of mobs, your going to loose out on exp and or drops, because each exp orb is a entity, they don't merge, ect. Very few of us use splash potions to kill numbers of mobs just because of this reason. In essence you get more exp killing them off one by one, rather then a group, so controlled TNT isn't used, ect. This count needs at least doubled, if not tripled.
Passive mobs, personally i feel that there really shouldn't be a count on this, and that the game should take a more PC approach, where it has a chance to spawn animals when the chunk is created, after that its extremely low chance of spawning animals. This would actually encourage breeding, and taking care not to kill off all the animals around us. Right now I don't run any type of animal farm other then sheep simply because its way to easy to run around for 5 minutes killing pigs/cows/chickens to get enough meat to last a couple of days. I think if people want to have a 500 cow farm then let them. 4J has taken it upon themselves to say no we won't let you lag your game with too many animals. We should have this choice and most players know that if the game is lagging because they have too many animals they'll kill a bunch off. Point is let us make the choice of how many passives we wish to keep. Yes the above alters gameplay but I think its for the best, and i think most will agree.
Villagers count of 50 is another joke, it needs at least doubled, if not tripled. I understand that infinite village breeding can take place, but I have tested worlds with more then 800 villagers, and the xbox one handled them with next to no lag. This test was also coupled with a 64 stacked village producing iron golems, where i had over 200 iron golems. (800 villagers, 200 iron golems), and no noticeable lag. (2 players). The the console can defiantly handle increased villagers/golems.
In respects to hostile mob limits, what has to take place is no so much a bump to the count, but more so fixed rates of spawn. The spawn rates of changed considerably, and this has seriously slowed down farms efficiency. If one looks at say an efficient endermen farm, its not hard to tell that the number of endermen isn't the issue, its the time it takes for the farm to actually restalk itself. I've done tests using the same farm on the PC/xbox one. The minute I begin killing off the endermen on the PC, they are very quickly replaced with new endermen, where the xbox one seems to take nearly 4x longer to spawn in additional endermen. I believe this is because back several versions (when witches were introduced and neither fortresses), 4J didn't use structure data, and this caused witches/neither fortresses to only work the first time they were loaded, after that they stopped working, in order to fix this they needed to alter the mob spawn code, and this additional code caused alot of overhead, and thus they at least halved (if not quartered) the speed it used to run at. Going back to endermen farms I can remember having a hard time killing off the endermen within my farm, for as quickly as I killed them off they were replaced with new ones, this simply isn't the case now.
Now spawners on the other hand are a total different case. On the PC, spawners can go above and beyond the mob count, in fact if left unchecked these spawners can cause serious lag. I once accidentally left for 4 hours and came back there were over 3000 mobs, so bad was the lag the only way for me to solve it was to switch to peaceful. If they wish to impose a cap, spawners should have the option to go above and beyond it, so if they maintained the 75 mob limit, spawners should allow that limit to be 2x what it is, (IMHO)
Anyhow sorry about the wall of text, but these are just my thoughts.
Sadly, it's doubtful this will ever change. 4j continues to shoe horn Minecraft into old systems that can't handle it, without the staff to optimize it for each version. So they have to build to the lowest common denominator.
What is the current cap? I read back thru most of these posts and there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer. I have an adventure map that I am wanting to populate with tagged mobs prior to my players going thru it. How many tagged mobs can i add?
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I LOVE the fact Terraria has done the exact opposite to this. Re-Logic stopped development of the 360 version at the last major stable update, and has insisted they won't be held back by old tech. Their latest trailer for console 1.3 Terraria outright states "Same game and experience whichever platform you choose".
I built an enderman farm on one of the new end islands and I only get 15 enderman before the cap is met. Consistently 15 and then it stops. It took forever, but I made certain there were no other spawnable places anywhere on the island to maximize the number in the farm by flattening the island then making it into a square by shaving down each side. The top was covered in water and the only place for the enderman to spawn is on the spawning pad. It's sad that the limit is so low. The build limit away from the main island was made smaller and then we get the shaft on numbers on the end islands too. Booooooo.
As far as I recall when doing testing quite a few versions back we have a 'hard set' hostile mob cap, which more or less means that we have a limit of around 70 if I can recall correctly. This is regardless to the number of players online, and their location.
On the PC is based on the number of chunks loaded, and for a single person that works out to be around 70, however when multiple players get involved that number can quickly go upwards, especially on servers when players start using camera and dummy accounts. This accounts are setup so that they are in an area that has very low chance for anything to spawn around them, thus greatly increasing the hostile mob counts for other players.
Personally I still stick by my original posting in that there is nothing wrong with the hostile mob count, but more so the frequency it takes to spawn new mobs. On the PC it can spawn a crapload (like 24 mobs per second), and we all know that it just isn't that way on console, hell we are lucky to get 4 every 4 to 5 seconds.
I wonder then do the mini-islands have their own, and lower, mob caps?
There any shulkers on the island?
That's my thought. There is literally nothing else on the island. No other mobs at all. I can load the world while on the island and still only get 15.
Personally I don't see an issue with the standard hostile mob cap, but I do have issues with both entity and passive mob counts including villagers. Lets take a moment to look at these in details and how they impact gameplay.
First lets look at entities, the issue here is that anything that is dropped is an entity, and its shared with item frames as well. Sure items 'merge', and I believe the max count is somewhere around 200 entities, but this is a serious joke. 200 sounds like a lot, buts its seriously limiting, if one has say 20 or so item frames, you already down to 180 entities, Now lets say you want to use a splash potion to kill off a good number of mobs, your going to loose out on exp and or drops, because each exp orb is a entity, they don't merge, ect. Very few of us use splash potions to kill numbers of mobs just because of this reason. In essence you get more exp killing them off one by one, rather then a group, so controlled TNT isn't used, ect. This count needs at least doubled, if not tripled.
Passive mobs, personally i feel that there really shouldn't be a count on this, and that the game should take a more PC approach, where it has a chance to spawn animals when the chunk is created, after that its extremely low chance of spawning animals. This would actually encourage breeding, and taking care not to kill off all the animals around us. Right now I don't run any type of animal farm other then sheep simply because its way to easy to run around for 5 minutes killing pigs/cows/chickens to get enough meat to last a couple of days. I think if people want to have a 500 cow farm then let them. 4J has taken it upon themselves to say no we won't let you lag your game with too many animals. We should have this choice and most players know that if the game is lagging because they have too many animals they'll kill a bunch off. Point is let us make the choice of how many passives we wish to keep. Yes the above alters gameplay but I think its for the best, and i think most will agree.
Villagers count of 50 is another joke, it needs at least doubled, if not tripled. I understand that infinite village breeding can take place, but I have tested worlds with more then 800 villagers, and the xbox one handled them with next to no lag. This test was also coupled with a 64 stacked village producing iron golems, where i had over 200 iron golems. (800 villagers, 200 iron golems), and no noticeable lag. (2 players). The the console can defiantly handle increased villagers/golems.
In respects to hostile mob limits, what has to take place is no so much a bump to the count, but more so fixed rates of spawn. The spawn rates of changed considerably, and this has seriously slowed down farms efficiency. If one looks at say an efficient endermen farm, its not hard to tell that the number of endermen isn't the issue, its the time it takes for the farm to actually restalk itself. I've done tests using the same farm on the PC/xbox one. The minute I begin killing off the endermen on the PC, they are very quickly replaced with new endermen, where the xbox one seems to take nearly 4x longer to spawn in additional endermen. I believe this is because back several versions (when witches were introduced and neither fortresses), 4J didn't use structure data, and this caused witches/neither fortresses to only work the first time they were loaded, after that they stopped working, in order to fix this they needed to alter the mob spawn code, and this additional code caused alot of overhead, and thus they at least halved (if not quartered) the speed it used to run at. Going back to endermen farms I can remember having a hard time killing off the endermen within my farm, for as quickly as I killed them off they were replaced with new ones, this simply isn't the case now.
Now spawners on the other hand are a total different case. On the PC, spawners can go above and beyond the mob count, in fact if left unchecked these spawners can cause serious lag. I once accidentally left for 4 hours and came back there were over 3000 mobs, so bad was the lag the only way for me to solve it was to switch to peaceful. If they wish to impose a cap, spawners should have the option to go above and beyond it, so if they maintained the 75 mob limit, spawners should allow that limit to be 2x what it is, (IMHO)
Anyhow sorry about the wall of text, but these are just my thoughts.
how many do you get until you kill them? i get around 60..
Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.
Sadly, it's doubtful this will ever change. 4j continues to shoe horn Minecraft into old systems that can't handle it, without the staff to optimize it for each version. So they have to build to the lowest common denominator.
What is the current cap? I read back thru most of these posts and there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer. I have an adventure map that I am wanting to populate with tagged mobs prior to my players going thru it. How many tagged mobs can i add?
I LOVE the fact Terraria has done the exact opposite to this. Re-Logic stopped development of the 360 version at the last major stable update, and has insisted they won't be held back by old tech. Their latest trailer for console 1.3 Terraria outright states "Same game and experience whichever platform you choose".
Come ON 4J! Dump the last gen consoles!
I built an enderman farm on one of the new end islands and I only get 15 enderman before the cap is met. Consistently 15 and then it stops. It took forever, but I made certain there were no other spawnable places anywhere on the island to maximize the number in the farm by flattening the island then making it into a square by shaving down each side. The top was covered in water and the only place for the enderman to spawn is on the spawning pad. It's sad that the limit is so low. The build limit away from the main island was made smaller and then we get the shaft on numbers on the end islands too. Booooooo.
As far as I recall when doing testing quite a few versions back we have a 'hard set' hostile mob cap, which more or less means that we have a limit of around 70 if I can recall correctly. This is regardless to the number of players online, and their location.
On the PC is based on the number of chunks loaded, and for a single person that works out to be around 70, however when multiple players get involved that number can quickly go upwards, especially on servers when players start using camera and dummy accounts. This accounts are setup so that they are in an area that has very low chance for anything to spawn around them, thus greatly increasing the hostile mob counts for other players.
Personally I still stick by my original posting in that there is nothing wrong with the hostile mob count, but more so the frequency it takes to spawn new mobs. On the PC it can spawn a crapload (like 24 mobs per second), and we all know that it just isn't that way on console, hell we are lucky to get 4 every 4 to 5 seconds.
That's my thought. There is literally nothing else on the island. No other mobs at all. I can load the world while on the island and still only get 15.