Gameplay

Cubic Chunks: Reduced lag, infinite height, and more [The #1 Suggestion Thread of all time!][Updated! 6/14]

Poll: Which parts of this system do you like?

Which parts of this system do you like? - Multiple Choice

  • None 0.3% of Users - 39 votes
  • Crippling of X-ray hacks(Only in SMP, and can be disabled) 10.9% of Users - 1360 votes
  • Reduction of server-client bandwidth usage and connection lag 14.1% of Users - 1750 votes
  • Ability to utilize much larger and more realistic terrain generation 15.1% of Users - 1879 votes
  • Ability to utilize 3D biomes(Allows for underground, underwater biomes, and intricate random structure generation) 15.2% of Users - 1891 votes
  • More efficient chunk-handling 15.5% of Users - 1930 votes
  • Virtually infinite depth 13.5% of Users - 1675 votes
  • Virtually infinite height 15.4% of Users - 1911 votes

This poll has ended as of 5/15/2014 5:50:01 PM

Poll: Which parts of this system do you NOT like?

Which parts of this system do you NOT like? - Multiple Choice

  • None 72% of Users - 1937 votes
  • Crippling of X-ray hacks(Only in SMP, and can be disabled) 7.1% of Users - 191 votes
  • Reduction of server-client bandwidth usage and connection lag 1.6% of Users - 43 votes
  • Ability to utilize much larger and more realistic terrain generation 2.4% of Users - 64 votes
  • Ability to utilize 3D biomes(Allows for underground, underwater biomes, and intricate random structure generation) 1.7% of Users - 45 votes
  • More efficient chunk-handling 1.2% of Users - 32 votes
  • Virtually infinite depth 9.7% of Users - 262 votes
  • Virtually infinite height 4.3% of Users - 117 votes

This poll has ended as of 5/15/2014 5:50:01 PM

Poll: Do you support this system's implementation overall? (If yes, if

Do you support this system's implementation overall? (If yes, if - Single Choice

  • I'm indifferent. 2.7%
  • I'm not sure. (Please post why, if possible). 1.6%
  • No. (Please post why, if possible). 1.7%
  • Yes. 94%

This poll has ended as of 5/15/2014 5:50:01 PM

  • #1
    [represent]
    This system will not increase lag! The entire point of this system is to avoid the lag caused by higher height limits.


    Table of Contents:

    Overview
    Changes in how things work
    Frequently Asked Questions
    [WIP] The Cubic Chunks Mod!
    Gallery
    Supporting this suggestion
    Special thanks

    Q: Won't this increase lag?
    A: Absolutely not. The title of this suggestion and big red letters at the top of this post aren't lying. If you want to know how, then I suggest you actually read this post.

    Q: Will this change terrain? Will this break existing worlds?
    A: No. Terrain change is not necessary. Existing worlds can be converted fairly easily with a process described later in this post.

    Q: How can sunlight or rain work with infinite vertical space?
    A: I suggest you read Coping with sunlight, because it's too complex for a tl;dr.

    Q: I have a different question but still don't feel like reading this post. What do I do?
    A: Too bad, read the FAQ. I put way too much work into this for the entirety of it to be ignored.



    Overview:

    In Minecraft, the sky is the limit - literally. It doesn't matter how many thousands of blocks a player has traveled, or what dimension they're in, or even if they're playing in creative or survival, the highest they can ever build is up to a height of 256. Why is that? If Minecraft can have a world that's infinite in the north, in the south, in the east, and in the west, why can't that world be infinite up and down too?

    In Minecraft's earliest days, in Classic and Indev, the world was not infinite in any direction. This was because the entire world needed to be generated at the same time, and the entire world needed to be simulated at the same time as well. This led to a conundrum - the bigger the world, the more it lagged.
    Notch didn't like this. He knew his players liked to explore and build large creations, so he found a way to make the world truly infinite. When the Minecraft '' class='bbc'>Infdev came out, it brought with it truly infinite worlds. Suddenly, players could travel hundreds of thousands of blocks in any direction, and never encounter a barrier, or become too laggy.
    The Infdev update brought about a very large change to Minecraft worlds to accomplish this feat. For the first time, instead every world being just a single huge piece, they were broken up into a two-dimensional grid of pieces, called chunks. Through breaking the world up into pieces, this 'chunk system' enabled infinite worlds by letting Minecraft create new pieces and simulate them only when it needs to.

    Why does that not apply to the vertical axis? Because the type of 'chunk system' Minecraft uses right now is a linear one, which, by using only a two-dimensional grid to map out chunks, means that it is impossible for chunks to stack on top of one another, and by extension, meaning that a single chunk must cover the entire vertical space. This brings back the problem that the Infdev update was supposed to eradicate, now only with chunks, instead of an entire world; the bigger a chunk is, the more laggy it is. You can't just increase the height limit and make chunks taller, because it will become laggier, and laggier, and laggier to do it.
    That's why, to fix this, Minecraft must change over to a cubic chunk system. Under this system, 163 block chunks are aligned on a three-dimensional grid, completely eliminating maximum height as an aspect of lag.

    The immediate benefits:
    •Minecraft worlds become as virtually infinite vertically as they are horizontally: The absolute limit being Y = ±30,000,000.
    A large FPS increase: Alpha testers report an FPS increase of 100~200%.
    Increase in running capability: Computers running Minecraft on Tiny render distance will handle only 30% the blocks they do now.

    The possible features:
    Spherical render/load distance: Reduce handled blocks by up to 30% by cutting corners made of unneeded chunks.
    Server chunk occlusion/exclusion: Reduce bandwidth usage and defeat hackers by only sending data for visible chunks.
    •Three-dimensional biomes: Save biome data per chunk rather than per block column, create volcanoes with magma chambers, underground rivers, tropical skylands floating over icy taigas, and more.

    The disadvantages:
    •Unloaded gravity-pause: Falling non-player entities and fluids will be forced to pause their fall if they reach unloaded chunks, but will resume falling when those chunks are loaded.
    •Slow falling-pause: Players with slower computers and smaller render distances will have falling occasionally paused as they fall into unloaded chunks, until new chunks can be loaded.

    The problems:
    •Current sunlight and rain calculation methods cannot work with infinite vertical space: The solution to this is described here.
    •Current BiomeDecorator cannot work with multiple vertical chunks simultaneously: The BiomeDecorator code must be altered to function correctly with this, or removed.
    •Current cave generation method is executed an extra time for each vertical chunk created simultaneously, leading to lag spikes on world generation: Cave generation's method must be altered to suit this system more.
    •Current grass/dirt generation algorithm forces additional chunk requests when chunks are loaded, causing chunks to load slower than they should: This algorithm must be replaced with something else.



    Changes in how things work:

    Obviously, the implementation of this new chunk system will change quite a few things. These changes are mostly either necessary or in the interest of increased efficiency. Such changes are categorized and explained below.

    How worlds will be stored:
    How the current storage works, and what changes:
    Interestingly enough, the current method of storage, the Anvil format, is derived from the storage method that the original Cubic Chunks mod used. The Anvil format stores individual chunk as a series of 163 quasi-cubic chunks. These 'fake' cubic chunks allow for easier reference of specific data, but they still can't be separated from each other, meaning that it fails to reap the full benefits of this system. Even so, the change allowed Mojang to double the maximum height with no performance hit. Chunks are stored in groups of 322, inside 'MCRegion' files, for a total of 1024 chunks.
    By nature, cubic chunks does away with the 'quasi-cubic' nonsense. In terms of chunk grouping, instead of using groups of 323 chunks, new "3DRegion" files would contain groups of 163. This means each 3DRegion file contains 4096 chunks, four times as many as MCRegion files. However, each 3DRegion contains only one fourth the amount of blocks. For per-chunk positional metadata, 3DRegion files would use the same number of bits as MCRegion files, after compression. Calculations show that the same area encompassed by a single MCRegion file would consume 64 kilobytes of extra space with 4 3DRegion files, which is nothing.

    Converting existing worlds:
    Most people are probably wondering something like "But won't this totally destroy all existing worlds?". Absolutely not; conversion could not be simpler. When a non-cubic world is loaded after the implementation of this system, a conversion process will begin and convert the entire world at once(To avoid making chunk loading take longer during play). First, all existing MCRegion files will be divided into quarters to create 3DRegion files. Then, all existing chunks are divided into sixteenths using the quasi-cubic properties to identify boundaries. After that, conversion is done.

    The "isEmpty" flag optimization:
    A 1-bit flag is added to each chunk, named "isEmpty". If the chunk consists of 100% air blocks, this bit is 1, any other case makes it 0. When the bit is 1, all data for the chunk besides the isEmpty flag is deleted and ignored, which reduces filesize. Empty chunks are never loaded, and locations where they occur are merely simulated as entities reside in them. The chunk will only load when something requires saving inside it.

    Changes to terrain, ores, etcetera:
    Terrain:
    By default, nothing will change. Small bits of terrain generation code need to be reconfigured to work properly with Cubic Chunks.

    Biomes:
    By default, nothing will change.

    Ore generation:
    By default, nothing will change.

    Structures:
    By default, nothing will change.

    The Void:
    After conversion to Cubic Chunks, the void and bedrock layer will still exist and generate as they always have. However, the void(Not the bedrock layer!) will not exist as a hard limit and is able to be moved, but not removed, by editing an associated NBT data tag inside a world's level.dat. This feature, that allows for increasing the maximum depth, is intentionally disabled without external programs, to prevent terrain change of any sort. It is intended to be used by experienced mapmakers and world generation mods only.

    Superflat settings:
    Existing superflat worlds will not change. However, new superflat worlds will gain a new decoration parameter, 'void'. Inclusion of this parameter will cause the void to form below the lowest defined layer. Exclusion of it will cause all layers below the lowest defined layer to copy the settings of that layer.

    Coping with sunlight:
    There used to be a solution here, but it wasn't deemed good enough by Jeb. Suggest solutions in this thread.

    Changes to servers:
    Settings:
    There's a setting inside the Server.properties file called 'max-build-height'. The setting makes it impossible for any player to place or remove blocks above that height.
    With the implementation of Cubic Chunks, a new setting named "maximum-generation-depth" would be added. The void, bedrock layers, and magma layers will generate normally at and above the Y level designated by the value of this setting.

    Chunk occlusion/exclusion:
    Using the raytracing methods already available in the code and used for explosion calculations, servers can identify which chunks are visible to a player, within safe assumptions, and only send the data for those chunks. This both reduces bandwidth usage, and cripples the usefulness of X-Ray cheats.

    Render/Load distance alterations:
    After the implementation of Cubic Chunks, view distances' radii will apply to the vertical axis too. This reduces handled blocks in the cases of tiny and short render distances, and increases them in the cases of normal and far render distances. This can be optimized by utilizing a spherical render distance instead of a cubic one, which would reduce handled blocks in all distances except Far.



    Frequently Asked Questions:

    Q: This is impossible.
    A: No it's not. See below.

    Q: Is this available as a mod?
    A: Not yet! But it will be!

    Q: I like X-ray! What if I don't want it to be broken?
    A: First of all, breaking X-ray hacks will only be possible to do in multiplayer. That said, the system that would break X-ray would be possible to disable by the server owner. If the owner doesn't disable the system, then they don't want you using X-ray, and you should not be doing what the server owner doesn't want in the first place.

    Q: I play on a PvP/Anarchy/Raid/Faction server. Won't this system let people pillar up into the sky and create a base thousands of blocks in the air and never be found?
    A: No.

    Q: I like Minecraft's current height limits. What if I don't want to have an infinite sky or infinite underground?
    A: If this system is added, all worlds will not automatically gain an infinite underground. As stated below, the Void will remain in all worlds, even after the conversion to Cubic Chunks. The ability to remove the Void will simply be there. As for infinite space in the sky, the current build limit is over one hundred blocks above any terrain that vanilla Minecraft can possibly generate. It is ENTIRELY your decision on whether or not you take advantage of this height. If you play on a server, like stated above, the server owner can set a maximum build height. If s/he doesn't, then don't play on their server - you don't play on servers where the server owners allow things you don't like. Why would you play on an anarchy server if you hate being stolen from and killed?

    Q: Will this affect Redstone at all?
    A: No. This system will simply make it possible to make larger redstone circuitry than before.

    Q: Won't this break existing worlds?
    A: No. Existing worlds can be easily converted by dividing each MCRegion file into 4 pieces, then slicing the existing 256 block-high chunks inside them into 16 individual chunks.

    Q: Won't this affect mods? Won't mod authors have a hard time updating their mods?
    A: The answer to this question depends solely on the answer to the following two questions: Do parts of the modification code rely on chunk data/metadata? Does the mod author want to take advantage of the features of the new chunk system? If the answers to the first and second question are both "No", then updating a mod to this system should be very easy and quick. If the answer to the first question is "Yes", then those parts of the code will need to be rewritten somewhat, but in most cases, the changes should be fairly quick and easy. The only time that it should be hard to update a mod to this system, is if the answer to the second question is "Yes".

    Q: Won't this require a total rewrite of the mod API if that's released first?
    A: No. Whether or not even a small part of the mod API needs to be rewritten depends on the way that it is implemented and whether or not there are API inclusions for chunk handling and other chunk-related behavior.

    Q: Could a player fall into unloaded chunks if chunks aren't loaded fast enough?
    A: No, they could not, and for several reasons. Minecraft has a terminal velocity, though it might not seem like it. This velocity is slower than it should take to load new chunks below the player. In cases with exceptionally slow computers, even if the player did manage to reach an unloaded chunk, their fall would be paused until that chunk can be loaded.

    Q: What would happen when water, sand, or a mob falls into an unloaded chunk?
    A: Nothing. The water/sand/mob would freeze in place until the chunk is loaded and it can continue moving. You can already see this same thing happening on the horizontal axis.

    Q: What will happen to the Void?
    A: It will still exist, along with all its effects. The only difference is that the Void is no longer a hard limit and it can be moved. After the conversion to Cubic Chunks, the Void's location will be stored in a world's ' class='bbc'>level.dat, and this location can be changed with NBT editing tools. When and where the Void exists, chunks will cease to generate.

    Q: Will this affect terrain?
    A: No. However, terrain generators will gain the ability to use infinite height.

    Q: Will this affect ore generation?
    A: No. Ore is a part of terrain generation. As stated above, terrain will not be changed.

    Q: Won't all current terrain generators be incompatible with this system and need to be rewritten?
    A: No. Terrain generators work independently of chunks. When a chunk is generated for the first time, it calls the terrain generator and receives a specific section of the resultant terrain to save inside itself. Because of this, some custom terrain generators can generate steep terrain all the way to Y256, where you can experience a large, flat cut-off. Since there are no chunks above Y256 to call the terrain generator for terrain, no terrain exists there.

    Q: What would happen if there's a huge solid ceiling so far above you that it is unloaded? Wouldn't you just see the sky, just with everything being completely dark?
    A: Yes. This already happens on the horizontal axis, and it is an issue with sky rendering, not this chunk system. As such, this has nothing to do with this suggestion. Please do not post about this.

    Q: If you go deep underground, will your plants grow/ores smelt/animals grow?
    A: No, because those chunks would be unloaded, just as if you had walked far away. This is a flaw with any chunk system, regardless of shape. It is a necessary evil that allows Minecraft to have infinite worlds. The only way to fix this would be to introduce a separate new system that works with chunks as they are loaded and unloaded. This suggestion deals with the chunk system itself, and not sister processes. Because of that, that is outside of the scope of this suggestion. Please do not post about this.



    [WIP] The Cubic Chunks Mod! (Tall Worlds Mod):

    Cuchaz has taken it upon himself to bring us the glorious Cubic Chunks, since Mojang refuses to do so.

    Cuchaz is using a API of his own creation to help assist in the making of this mod, and he's quite far along, as seen in these two tech demo videos:
    With the basic functionality in place - a complete overhaul of the basic chunk system, and height limit removed - this whole concept can already be considered proven. What remains is making sure everything else functions correctly under the new chunk system. In any case, stay tuned for future updates if it interests you(If it doesn't, then you are the weakest link - goodbye!).

    You can follow the mod's development in much more depth in its very own topic!


    Gallery:





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    Support & Submission to Mojang:

    If you support this, hit the rep button in the bottom-right corner of this post. It is the only good way of accurately measuring support here.

    If you wish, you can put the following banner, courtesy of laz2727, into your signature. It helps to attract support from all parts of the forum!
    [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1707097-cubic-chunks-infinite-height-elimination-of-x-ray-and-more-60-supporters/page__st__0"][img]http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/443/hov.png[/img][/url]

    Note: This signature will break unless you toggle the edit mode when pasting the above code over, by clicking the button in the very top-left of the signature editing box.


    Please help us get word out of this suggestion! Share this with your friends, with Minecraft celebrities if you're familiar with them, or even with Mojangsters like Jeb or Dinnerbone! (Do not share this with Notch. Notch doesn't work with Minecraft anymore.)

    The purpose of this suggestion is to have Cubic Chunks implemented in Vanilla. Being available as a modification does not fulfill that purpose. The modification featured in this suggestion is to act as a proof-of-concept only(Note: Its being featured here is to act as a proof-of-concept. The modification itself is on its way to becoming a fully fledged modification).



    Special thanks:
    Cuchaz, for taking Barteks' proof and running with it, to give us a truly functional Cubic Chunks mod.
    Barteks2x, for updating the Cubic Chunks mod to 1.6.2, proving that it is possible.
    Azraile, for posting the original suggestion and allowing me to take ownership of it.
    Nocte, for helping resolve flaws and designing Hexahedra.
    MineCrak, for a large amount of valuable insight and enthusiasm into the topic of Cubic Chunks.
    aaronfranke, for helping resolve flaws.
    PanJouda, for creating the original banner.
    Flexico, for creating the predecessor to the current banner.
    laz2727, for creating the current banner.
    Robinton, for creating the original Cubic Chunks mod.
    The_Watchman13, for answering all those stupid questions so I don't have to.



    Note: Many calculations and information can be found among the many posts of this topic. There are too many for me to cite here, but if you wish, you can search for them yourself.
  • #2
    16x16x16 is a little to small to say the least.....

    32x32x32 is the same number of blocks as the 16x16x127 limit they use to use before they they increased the hight limit

    And I've not read over it but thank you for putting the idea into better words than I did. :Diamond: :Diamond: :Diamond: :Diamond: :Diamond: :Diamond: :Diamond: :Diamond: :Diamond: :Diamond: :Diamond:
    I aim to please ... and occasionally mentally scar.
    "Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
    This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:

  • #3
    Nicely explained, but poster above posted it first.
    Im a master of ideas. And puns.
  • #4
    No offence Azraile, but this topic makes a lot more sence than yours. Support.
  • #5
    Also don't forget deep ocian biomes.

    And for the lighting the idea I had was to simply store the lighting data for the bottom layer of blocks of the chunk above saved onto every chunk... when ever a new chunk is created they create (but not necessary load) new chunks up until they get one where a layer is 100% skylight some where in the chunk. (ie, creating new land up till open sky) Any thing that loads say flying islands or ships or the like in the sky won't matter at that point as they would be to high up to cast much a shadow (or could always have been considered to have "moved" into view)
    Quote from bebe33

    Nicely explained, but poster above posted it first.


    Quote from dillyman2

    No offence Azraile, but this topic makes a lot more sence than yours. Support.


    I don't mind, and no office.

    I would rather it be put better by some one else and get attention than me try and get people to understand and fail a lot (wich is what i've been doing..... most people just don't get it when I explain it x.x)
    I aim to please ... and occasionally mentally scar.
    "Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
    This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:

  • #6
    Oh another idea to cut down on loading new chunks....

    After a certen point underground light can't reach down that far so you wouldn't have to create new chunks all the way to the serface. Although you would have to load up a chunk or two for lava/water flows no matter what
    I aim to please ... and occasionally mentally scar.
    "Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
    This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:

  • #7
    Quote from Azraile

    16x16x16 is a little to small to say the least.....

    Bigger isn't always better. Larger chunks cut down on the number of draw calls, but also increase the overhead in all other areas.

    While most engines use 163, some do use 323 (the only one I know of is Ephenation). Profiling my own engine showed that the difference in speed wasn't that big, and I felt 16 gave a better balance between speed, memory, and network load.
  • #8
    Quote from Azraile

    16x16x16 is a little to small to say the least.....

    32x32x32 is the same number of blocks as the 16x16x127 limit they use to use before they they increased the hight limit

    And I've not read over it but thank you for putting the idea into better words than I did.

    16x16x16 is for simplicity reasons. When converting old worlds. it'll be much easier to cut each existing chunk into 16 pieces than it is to cut each one into 8 pieces and combine the pieces with 3 surrounding chunks.
    Additionally, smaller chunks make for more realistic representation of the view radius.

    Quote from Azraile

    Oh another idea to cut down on loading new chunks....

    After a certen point underground light can't reach down that far so you wouldn't have to create new chunks all the way to the serface. Although you would have to load up a chunk or two for lava/water flows no matter what


    I've already derived a solution to the sunlight issue.
  • #9
    didn't think of converting worlds .... that dose make it easier ^.^

    As far as infinite height and depth goes I don't think it should be truly infinite.

    Going up yes.... though eventually you should hit space... (no air)

    And going down you should hit a point where there is almost nothing but lava (maybe some large crystal chunks floating around in the lava... or geodes or the like... but you would have to find a way through all the laval sorce blocks
    I aim to please ... and occasionally mentally scar.
    "Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
    This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:

  • #10
    Say bye bye to your computer's RAM and processor.
  • #11
    x.x This idea will decress lag... not incress it
    I aim to please ... and occasionally mentally scar.
    "Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
    This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:

  • #12
    I'll be very direct. Cubic Chunks is implemented in a Voxel Game Engine Server/Client called Spout (not spoutcraft or its companion bukkit plugin). Its minecraft emulation Vanilla (ie act like minecraft server or client) an shift the sent chunks on the y-axis to Vanilla Clients allow the extra height and depth to be used. Anyone who want to find out more. Here is a link
  • #13
    The only problem: extreme distances will still cause lag, as it is just the addition of a new plane. The same distance is used (save for that on a coordinate plane, it would be a ray instead of a line) for this new plane--around 9,000,000 times the size of Earth.

    And in Xbox 360, Pocket, and Pi editions, it would be worse sence the game engines aren't as strong as on your average computer.
    Slenderman is watching you!!! :(
  • #14
    I fully support this idea. And unlike this guy a bit higher up I actually read through it before spewing out comments blatantly screaming of how little he read the post. I am also seeing how this could really improve the lag caused by rendering chunks and could change a lot of opportunities to the better for various heights and depth-values.

    +1 support.
    Hį͢͟s͏͘͘͢͜H͠͡ơ̵͢͞r̴̷҉̶n͏c̛̀҉̛͘r҉̵o̵͜w̡̡҉͞ņ̶͝e̷̸͘d̷̨͘͟͠m͟͠a̵̢̛͞j̢ȩ̵̛͠s̶̸͘͢͝t̷̢̛͜y̶̢̨͟h̸̴a҉̶͡s̸̢̢͜҉à̴̶̛r҉̷҉̶r̸̛í̵̛͜v̢͏̵e̵͝d̡̀͏̡
  • #15
    Quote from Terrorizer231

    The only problem: extreme distances will still cause lag, as it is just the addition of a new plane. The same distance is used (save for that on a coordinate plane, it would be a ray instead of a line) for this new plane--around 9,000,000 times the size of Earth.

    And in Xbox 360, Pocket, and Pi editions, it would be worse sence the game engines aren't as strong as on your average computer.


    that would be an interesting sight..... downward far lands.... lol

    But exstream distances are a problem, but this may actualy let you travel ferther above ground with out bad affects, as the underground won't be loaded/created where ever you go....

    no matter how far you go or what you do, with 3d chunks you load less blocks than with the curent 2d block set up because you not loading the intire 256 hight chunk at once..... instead your loading a few 16 high chunks above and bellow you.


    Visual exsample:

    Loaded chunk: :Glass:

    Curent system

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    perposed system:



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    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Glass: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Glass: :Glass: :Glass: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Glass: :Glass: :Notch: :Glass: :Glass: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Glass: :Glass: :Glass: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Glass: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:
    :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^: :Logs^:

    not a 100% acurate exsample.... but a good way to get the point across
    I aim to please ... and occasionally mentally scar.
    "Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
    This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:

  • #16
    Quote from Waterpicker

    I'll be very direct. Cubic Chunks is implemented in a Voxel Game Engine Server/Client called Spout (not spoutcraft or its companion bukkit plugin).

    Last time I looked at Spout, this was only for the internal representation. The entire system around it (server, network protocol, and client) was still being developed. A vanilla client would always see a horizontal slice of the world. You'd be interrupted with a "Downloading world" screen every time you transition between slices. A bit jarring, but a very clever way to bring infinite height to a client that doesn't support it. :)

    Just checked the website, but I can't seem to find any up-to-date info about this. Do you happen to know how far along they are?


    (And the opening post needs something all the way at the top to avoid more "hurrrr lag" replies.)
  • #17
    Quote from Azraile

    no matter how far you go or what you do, with 3d chunks you load less blocks than with the curent 2d block set up because you not loading the intire 256 hight chunk at once..... instead your loading a few 16 high chunks above and bellow you.

    I posted this illustration some time ago that shows how you can reduce the amount of loaded chunks even further.
  • #18
    Quote from Terrorizer231

    The only problem: extreme distances will still cause lag, as it is just the addition of a new plane. The same distance is used (save for that on a coordinate plane, it would be a ray instead of a line) for this new plane--around 9,000,000 times the size of Earth.

    And in Xbox 360, Pocket, and Pi editions, it would be worse sence the game engines aren't as strong as on your average computer.


    The key word is, extreme distances 'still' cause lag. Teleport to X coordinate 32 million in a world in single player, and that world essentially becomes unplayable, it is by no means something unique to the Y axis. I did say 'virtually' infinite. If you manage to climb or dig 250000 blocks, which is the absolute MINIMUM to experience any sort of coordinate-related lag, I APPLAUD you.
  • #19
    I don't think I agree with the idea of infinite vertical space because 1. the neather is supposed to be under the overworld, hence bedrock at the top and bottom of the neather and overworld respectively. And 2. there should be a hight limit because as pointed out before you would eventualy reach space. Othere than that I very much agree with the 3D chunks and inreasing the hight limit just not infinitely.

    3/4 support.
  • #20
    Quote from Nocte

    I posted this illustration some time ago that shows how you can reduce the amount of loaded chunks even further.


    I was thinking about posting something similar too but thats a way better one repost it here! maybe they can move it to the main thread..... please fill free to post the stuff here as people as some people are to lazy to follow links.

    And thank you Calacbolg and Nocte, I've gotten so little support with this idea over the past few years... mainly because so few understand it..... I'm so happy to see people not only understanding it, but taking it further and applying actual codding knowledge to it while putting it in ways other people can understand!!!

    LOL when I have minecraft working on a computer that can run it well I'll have to have statues/pictures dedicated to you two in my base =p lol
    I aim to please ... and occasionally mentally scar.
    "Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
    This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:

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