A couple of years ago, the release 1.9 edition was introduced to the Java edition of Minecraft. All of the new features added in that update are pretty cool, but there's a new 1.9 feature that is still hated by most Minecraft players. The new combat system. To be honest, I also dislike it. However, I came up with an idea that could be added in the 1.13 update. A new /gamerule called "attackCooldown", and if it's set to false, there will not be an attack cooldown for all players, and the PvP will be more like 1.8. I think that this will be very useful for people that dislike the new PvP, and for 1.9+ PvP server. Do you think this should be implemented in the upcoming 1.13 update? Vote on the poll.
Does it really matter? Link or not, it doesn't change the fact that 1.9 combat is here to stay. A massive update was not made just to be "rolled back". How many times will this suggestion keep coming up?
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Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Does it really matter? Link or not, it doesn't change the fact that 1.9 combat is here to stay. A massive update was not made just to be "rolled back". How many times will this suggestion keep coming up?
And this is something, that has been stated over, and over again. If game developer makes big change, and works with it for OVER A YEAR, they aren't going to revert the changes. This is something, that haters isn't never going to get through their skulls.
There's no need to be abusive. Who are you accusing of being a 'hater'? Shouting in allcaps/bold doesn't make it right.
I never said they'd revert the changes; however, they may well add a gamerule that affects combat.
I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about those users, who don't do anything else, than bash the new system using their own opinions as facts (eg. How it takes over 1 second to normal sword to charge it's cooldown meter back up). But indeed, 'hater' is quite powerful word, but it really is only word to describe those, who don't like 1.9+ combat system.
It matters because people make random claims on the internet with no evidence; it's an interesting claim, I'd like to know where you got it from. Or is it just yout guess/opinion?
No, it's not just my opinion. I'd also like a new dimension to run around in, so I wouldn't just say that for no reason. If you don't want to believe me that's fine, but I wouldn't hold my breath for another dimension.
If they have not said that, then I wouldn't be at all surprised if they added a gamerule that affected the combat.
The new combat was meant to rebalance the combat overall. Not to have some awkward "back button" that undoes all of the effort done to rebalance the whole thing + the entire point of an update. Might as well add an option to remove hunger and creepers "bcuz ppl don't like them >:[[". Which would be a dumb idea because those two things are deeply part of the game no matter how much people hate them.
That also means such a gamerule paves the way for Mojang to have to cater to both types of combat without breaking balance for either of them. That's just goofy extra work.
There is every likelihood that combat - and pretty much everything else - will get further changes in future versions. I don't work for Mojang, and I guess you don't either - so unless they have made a statement, we can only speculate. But we do know that the game is continuously updated.
I don't work for Mojang, but I am a game developer nonetheless. Regardless, you don't need to be a game dev to have decent common sense about what belongs in a game. I don't need to be a game dev to know that Glock 9's and McDonalds villagers shouldn't touch the game. The game being updated doesn't mean we'll get a weird update back button just because there's some disagreers out there.
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Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
That already exists, it's called "Peaceful" difficulty.
I think you missed my point by like 3 miles.
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Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
No, it's not just my opinion. I'd also like a new dimension to run around in, so I wouldn't just say that for no reason. If you don't want to believe me that's fine, but I wouldn't hold my breath for another dimension.
You still aren't providing any sources. And, even if you did, Mojang has been known to pull complete 180s before.
The new combat was meant to rebalance the combat overall. Not to have some awkward "back button" that undoes all of the effort done to rebalance the whole thing + the entire point of an update. Might as well add an option to remove hunger and creepers "bcuz ppl don't like them >:[[". Which would be a dumb idea because those two things are deeply part of the game no matter how much people hate them.
And yet, they have continued to add a bunch of customization options, including adding NBT that lets you undo all of their work. By the way, you can easily disable hunger and creepers: use /effect minecraft:saturation and /tp @e[type=Creeper] ~ ~-100 ~. A couple of people disabling things they don't like isn't actually removing them from the game, and what one person's playstyle is has no effect on your overall enjoyment of the game.
Mojang has spent years creating the game's models and textures, and yet are perfectly fine with you undoing all their work with a resource pack. They spent years coding the game yet are fine with people overwriting everything with the upcoming data packs. They spent a good portion of 1.9 development developing Elytra, yet are perfectly fine with people who don't want to use them. Minecraft has been increasingly made to be tailored to the individual players' wants, and the developers have no problem if people want to play the game differently than they intended. I doubt they're angry at those who currently are disabling the cooldown through the current (and convoluted) method.
That also means such a gamerule paves the way for Mojang to have to cater to both types of combat without breaking balance for either of them. That's just goofy extra work.
Who says they have to rebalance the game for both playstyles? No other gamerule requires any sort of rebalancing, because changing a gamerule is essentially modding the game and thus balance is no longer Mojang's issue.
I don't work for Mojang, but I am a game developer nonetheless. Regardless, you don't need to be a game dev to have decent common sense about what belongs in a game. I don't need to be a game dev to know that Glock 9's and McDonalds villagers shouldn't touch the game. The game being updated doesn't mean we'll get a weird update back button just because there's some disagreers out there.
If this was just a small vocal minority I'd agree with you. However, as the "combat in 1.9 good or bad" thread poll says, it's nearly 40% of players. They are alienating more than a third of players and such a large group shouldn't be ignored.
Glock 9's and McDonalds villagers don't belong in the game because they have no precedent and don't fit the game's time period. However, the old combat was already there and fits into the game just as well as the current combat; neither "feels" out of place, it's just a matter of preference.
You still aren't providing any sources. And, even if you did, Mojang has been known to pull complete 180s before.
So then there was no point in ever having to find that quote this whole time? As for 180's, yes, they happened. There's also stuff that stayed the way it was even a bunch of suggesters begged for changes.
And yet, they have continued to add a bunch of customization options, including adding NBT that lets you undo all of their work. By the way, you can easily disable hunger and creepers: use /effect minecraft:saturation and /tp @e[type=Creeper] ~ ~-100 ~. A couple of people disabling things they don't like isn't actually removing them from the game, and what one person's playstyle is has no effect on your overall enjoyment of the game.
A couples of those examples don't fit the argument. The commands are cheats and not in the game by default. Peaceful difficulty is... a difficulty. There's different playstyles, but you still should consider balance. Sometimes, not everyone likes the added balance but it's still necessary.
Mojang has spent years creating the game's models and textures, and yet are perfectly fine with you undoing all their work with a resource pack. They spent years coding the game yet are fine with people overwriting everything with the upcoming data packs. They spent a good portion of 1.9 development developing Elytra, yet are perfectly fine with people who don't want to use them. Minecraft has been increasingly made to be tailored to the individual players' wants, and the developers have no problem if people want to play the game differently than they intended. I doubt they're angry at those who currently are disabling the cooldown through the current (and convoluted) method.
These examples don't work at all. A resource pack is just changing textures... Combat is something that you need to exist in order to deal with hostile mobs. How does using/not using an elytra even remotely prove anything? A ton of players wanted combat changes for years, and now that we got them, they're getting all teary-eyed because they want things to be easier again - as if they have no idea what side they're on...
Who says they have to rebalance the game for both playstyles? No other gamerule requires any sort of rebalancing, because changing a gamerule is essentially modding the game and thus balance is no longer Mojang's issue.
Well yeah, no other gamerules requires rebalancing because most of them are cheats that are officially implemented in survival by default. If you want the older combat, just play an older version. I'm not the biggest fan of the new combat either, but I understand why we have it.
If this was just a small vocal minority I'd agree with you. However, as the "combat in 1.9 good or bad" thread poll says, it's nearly 40% of players. They are alienating more than a third of players and such a large group shouldn't be ignored.
That 40% need to just get used to the new combat and understand why "looolclickclickCLIIICKdurr" spammy spam spam clicking wasn't very skill based. Spam clicking is still there, it's just not as effective. But hey, at least we got shields to compensate that, so what's the big deal?
Glock 9's and McDonalds villagers don't belong in the game because they have no precedent and don't fit the game's time period. However, the old combat was already there and fits into the game just as well as the current combat; neither "feels" out of place, it's just a matter of preference.
The game doesn't have a definite time period, hence having jukeboxes and music records. But it leans toward the medieval times more than any other time. I don't see how either type of combat fits or unfits. It's just... combat. It's just a sword that does damage differently.
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Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
So then there was no point in ever having to find that quote this whole time? As for 180's, yes, they happened. There's also stuff that stayed the way it was even a bunch of suggesters begged for changes.
As far as the desire for feature revisions go, those have always been wanted by only small minorities, like the poppy revision. The only thing that came close was hunger, and that has been disable-able for years now.
A couples of those examples don't fit the argument. The commands are cheats and not in the game by default. Peaceful difficulty is... a difficulty. There's different playstyles, but you still should consider balance. Sometimes, not everyone likes the added balance but it's still necessary.
Balance is important, but not if it means that the player won't have fun because of it. Fun is always more important than balance. There are many games out there, such as Dynasty Warriors, which throw balance to the wind so that the player will have a good time. Features in Minecraft should be made with balance in mind, but if it makes the game unfun for a lot of players, either a compromise or an alternate solution needs to be found. It's too late to find an alternate solution, so a compromise, such as a gamerule, is the way to go.
These examples don't work at all. A resource pack is just changing textures... Combat is something that you need to exist in order to deal with hostile mobs. How does using/not using an elytra even remotely prove anything? A ton of players wanted combat changes for years, and now that we got them, they're getting all teary-eyed because they want things to be easier again - as if they have no idea what side they're on...
What I'm saying is that Mojang is all for customizability, whether it's something as pointless as textures or as game-changing as overwriting game data. They've always wanted players to be able to play however they want—so why is combat any different?
Pre 1.9, combat suggestions weren't actually that common and were more about adding variety. If they wanted to add a cooldown, it was to give different types of weapons different attributes, not to address spam-clicking. I still see these kinds of suggestions from time to time which shows that 1.9 didn't actually solve the combat problem.
Well yeah, no other gamerules requires rebalancing because most of them are cheats that are officially implemented in survival by default. If you want the older combat, just play an older version. I'm not the biggest fan of the new combat either, but I understand why we have it.
What about keepInventory? That's used by a significant portion of the community but isn't on by default, yet it does nothing to rebalance the game.
"Just play an older version" is a terrible excuse. If that was acceptable, then anything could be added to the game and all Mojang would have to say to defend it is "play an older version that didn't have it." It's comparable to the "just use a mod" argument that is banned on this forum.
That 40% need to just get used to the new combat and understand why "looolclickclickCLIIICKdurr" spammy spam spam clicking wasn't very skill based. Spam clicking is still there, it's just not as effective. But hey, at least we got shields to compensate that, so what's the big deal?
Guess what? I'm part of that 40%. You're making a major assumption there. Skill is important, but the degree to which it is depends on how "hardcore" the game's audience is. Minecraft is targeted towards casual gamers, who don't care about skill so much as just having fun.
If you want to play a skill-based game, play something that's geared towards hardcore gamers, like Dark Souls or Breath of the Wild. Don't try to force it into a game that's clearly not about skill.
The game doesn't have a definite time period, hence having jukeboxes and music records. But it leans toward the medieval times more than any other time. I don't see how either type of combat fits or unfits. It's just... combat. It's just a sword that does damage differently.
It's not so much about the time period so much as the context. Before their implementation, jukeboxes wouldn't really have fit the game's medieval context. However, now that they have been implemented, the game's context is more of a steampunk period, where we do have stuff ahead of medieval times, but not in a way that parallels real life.
Regardless, you agreed with me there. I was saying that it's pretty obvious why stuff like guns and restaurants should stay out of the game, but its a much more gray area when it comes to combat. Therefore, it takes more than just common sense to know whether we should have 1.9 combat. I agree that 1.9 combat is better than 1.8 combat, but whether we should force everyone to use it is another matter.
As far as the desire for feature revisions go, those have always been wanted by only small minorities, like the poppy revision. The only thing that came close was hunger, and that has been disable-able for years now.
Not seeing how hunger makes a good comparison next to combat.
Balance is important, but not if it means that the player won't have fun because of it. Fun is always more important than balance. There are many games out there, such as Dynasty Warriors, which throw balance to the wind so that the player will have a good time. Features in Minecraft should be made with balance in mind, but if it makes the game unfun for a lot of players, either a compromise or an alternate solution needs to be found. It's too late to find an alternate solution, so a compromise, such as a gamerule, is the way to go.
Where the hell did you get that line of thinking from? This is a dangerous, flimsy line of thinking. This wouldn't even apply at all to a class-based multiplayer game, because the bad balance will stick out and ruin someone's day despite how much "fun" there was supposed to be.
What I'm saying is that Mojang is all for customizability, whether it's something as pointless as textures or as game-changing as overwriting game data. They've always wanted players to be able to play however they want—so why is combat any different?
I thought I explained all of this already. Because durrherpclickyclickyspamspam gameplay wasn't very appealing and skill-based. I wouldn't complain if Mojang added a goofy combat gamerule, but it'd be a very goofy move. And the way things look now, it looks like new combat is here to stay. People have been complaining about this a long time and it seems Mojang isn't budging. I'm sure Mojang knew the boiling 1.9 hate was gonna happen even before they made the update.
Pre 1.9, combat suggestions weren't actually that common and were more about adding variety. If they wanted to add a cooldown, it was to give different types of weapons different attributes, not to address spam-clicking. I still see these kinds of suggestions from time to time which shows that 1.9 didn't actually solve the combat problem.
But it now involves actually planning and timing instead of beating your mouse to death and getting an auto-win.
What about keepInventory? That's used by a significant portion of the community but isn't on by default, yet it does nothing to rebalance the game.
Stiiiiill pretty different from always-there-no-matter-what combat...
"Just play an older version" is a terrible excuse. If that was acceptable, then anything could be added to the game and all Mojang would have to say to defend it is "play an older version that didn't have it." It's comparable to the "just use a mod" argument that is banned on this forum.
Why did Mojang change the combat int he first place? To troll us? To feed off our rage?
Guess what? I'm part of that 40%. You're making a major assumption there. Skill is important, but the degree to which it is depends on how "hardcore" the game's audience is. Minecraft is targeted towards casual gamers, who don't care about skill so much as just having fun.
Is the new combat really all that bad? Is it bad because it's just objectively terribly done? Or is it bad because people just don't like the change from easy combat to more-effort combat? Again, we have shields which balances it out. Actually, we have two hand slots overall.
If you want to play a skill-based game, play something that's geared towards hardcore gamers, like Dark Souls or Breath of the Wild. Don't try to force it into a game that's clearly not about skill.
It really doesn't take that much skill to get used to the new combat... You can still spam jumping/critical hits like the player character's restless legs did a bump of coke. Sometimes "a lot of people dun like it" is not a very good reason. Sometimes the problem is the players and not so much the devs.
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Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Not seeing how hunger makes a good comparison next to combat.
It's a perfect comparison—it was something that was hated at release by a significant portion of people that people wanted to be made optional, and it became so in the form of peaceful difficulty and later the saturation effect.
Where the hell did you get that line of thinking from? This is a dangerous, flimsy line of thinking. This wouldn't even apply at all to a class-based multiplayer game, because the bad balance will stick out and ruin someone's day despite how much "fun" there was supposed to be.
I originally mentioned this when I was writing the post for the first time, but then my browser crashed and I forgot to put it in again.
Anyway, balance does matter in a multiplayer game—because, as you said, poor balance will ruin the fun of players. It still comes down to making the game as fun as possible. Making the game too hard or too easy (shifting the balance) will also hurt the player's overall fun with the game, as the lack of a challenge fails to stimulate the player's interest and making it too hard will annoy them and cause them to rage quit. You have to find the point of balance where the fun is at its peak, not the other way around. With a game as large as Minecraft, however, there is no one sweet spot, and so you give the individual players customization options so they can find that sweet spot for themselves.
I thought I explained all of this already. Because durrherpclickyclickyspamspam gameplay wasn't very appealing and skill-based.
To you. You don't represent the entire player base.
I wouldn't complain if Mojang added a goofy combat gamerule, but it'd be a very goofy move. And the way things look now, it looks like new combat is here to stay. People have been complaining about this a long time and it seems Mojang isn't budging. I'm sure Mojang knew the boiling 1.9 hate was gonna happen even before they made the update.
I'm sure they assume every new feature is going to get some hate. However, I wouldn't blame them if they didn't realize just how much hate this feature would get.
But it now involves actually planning and timing instead of beating your mouse to death and getting an auto-win.
I find shields to be much more of an auto-win than spam clicking ever was. It was balanced when it was added, but now it's been buffed to the point that I have yet to die in 1.12. In fact, when combined with the OP health regeneration, I'd say combat now is even less balanced than it was in 1.8.
Stiiiiill pretty different from always-there-no-matter-what combat...
It's the closest comparison there is. An always-there-no-matter-what- lack of any real death consequence is significant enough to prove my point. If you don't believe me, provide some actual counter argument
Why did Mojang change the combat int he first place? To troll us? To feed off our rage?
Why does Mojang add anything to the game? Because, for better or worse, they want to. In the end our opinions don't matter if Mojang feels different; they won't add anything if they don't want to and you'll have to convince them otherwise to get your feature in.
Is the new combat really all that bad? Is it bad because it's just objectively terribly done? Or is it bad because people just don't like the change from easy combat to more-effort combat? Again, we have shields which balances it out. Actually, we have two hand slots overall.
I don't find either system of combat to be harder or easier than the other. It boils down to a matter of preference. So, why is your preference so important that others can't have theirs?
1.9 combat isn't bad. In fact, I'll go as far as to say it's objectively good, because even if it didn't add enough, it did add some variety. But, it doesn't matter how good it is if you aren't having fun with it.
It really doesn't take that much skill to get used to the new combat... You can still spam jumping/critical hits like the player character's restless legs did a bump of coke. Sometimes "a lot of people dun like it" is not a very good reason. Sometimes the problem is the players and not so much the devs.
The players are the ones paying the devs and are the people whom the game is made for. They should be listened to, even if the problem is with them.
A lot of reasons you've provided are good reasons not to revert 1.9's combat, but they aren't good reasons to deny any kind of compromise. That's why you give any kind of compromise, because "a lot of people dun like" the original concept. We, along with the devs, aren't objective thinkers, so to our knowledge, neither choice is right.
Also, explain to me how a lot of people not liking something isn't a good reason in this case. If that were true, then even if 100% of players disliked the 1.9 combat it shouldn't be reverted if it was objectively better.
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I wouldn't mind if it was added, because I'm not affected. but I don't support it. You can't pick and choose what features of an update you want, and what to discard. This is a major gripe I have with some servers nowadays. They have 5, 5 updates you can use. 1.8, 1.9, 1.10, 1.11, and 1.12. That's a little extreme, just because a bunch of people are too stupid to learn when to attack. Of course, you could have an actual complaint with it, like how it actually doesn't balance the game with shields blocking 100% of damage, Totem of Undying, and it takes a generally longer period of time to battle an opponent. So while I don't care because it doesn't effect me personally, I would say no to the gamerule.
To you. You don't represent the entire player base.
Neither do you, or me, or anyone else on this forum. And yes, while you're part of the 40%, that's STILL minority. The vocal minority, but still a minority.
Yes, the new combat system did break up the player base even more, than it already was before (remember, there was the calm and casual survival and even calmer creative servers in addition to constant chaos of PvP servers. Yes, I think, that PvP servers doesn't have anything else, than chaos in them, hence the PvP) There has been several threads suggesting an addition of either "slider" to the options, or game rule to revert to old combat for those, who desires so. And every single one of them has been bashed to shreds. So much so, that these threads have kind of become pointless and redundant.
Neither do you, or me, or anyone else on this forum. And yes, while you're part of the 40%, that's STILL minority. The vocal minority, but still a minority.
Yes, the new combat system did break up the player base even more, than it already was before (remember, there was the calm and casual survival and even calmer creative servers in addition to constant chaos of PvP servers. Yes, I think, that PvP servers doesn't have anything else, than chaos in them, hence the PvP) There has been several threads suggesting an addition of either "slider" to the options, or game rule to revert to old combat for those, who desires so. And every single one of them has been bashed to shreds. So much so, that these threads have kind of become pointless and redundant.
The reason I said that is because he was giving a highly subjective statement as objective fact. I was just pointing out that his opinion isn't necessarily true.
All I'm saying is that we should have a compromise. 40% isn't high enough to merit a revision on the combat, but it is high enough to merit a compromise. If a gamerule is constantly suggested despite being constantly bashed, I think that would mean it's time to reconsider. Why do people dislike the idea of a gamerule so much? Is it just stubbornness, or does having a gamerule in the game actually hurt one's ability to enjoy it?
The reason I said that is because he was giving a highly subjective statement as objective fact. I was just pointing out that his opinion isn't necessarily true.
You do realize, that this same can be implemented to you as well, as me, and any other user writing on this forum, how biased it might be.
Every opinion is either true, or false, but still an opinion. For me, and for Cerroz the "durrherpclickyclickyspamspam", like he calls it isn't really appealing, nor does it have any real skill needed. Other, than when to attack/lunge towards that poor soul, who aren't prepared for it. Now the same goes to the new system, but at least the player who gets targeted have time to lift his/her shield up after the initial attack.
All I'm saying is that we should have a compromise. 40% isn't high enough to merit a revision on the combat, but it is high enough to merit a compromise. If a gamerule is constantly suggested despite being constantly bashed, I think that would mean it's time to reconsider.
True. It might. But I highly doubt it will ever be implemented. Not that it would save the player base, that has already been split in more, than 2 halfs.
Why do people dislike the idea of a gamerule so much? Is it just stubbornness...?
Sorry. Had to do that. Well, that's one exact reason. Really. And also, how much the pro 1.9 combat peeps actually hate the old system. They don't even want to see little piece of it on the game anymore. Sooo....
...or does having a gamerule in the game actually hurt one's ability to enjoy it?
I would say no, but that's just my opinion. How wrong or true it might be. But like I said, I do not see it happening any time soon, if ever. C'est la vie, is all I can say to this. (And that's only stuff I know of the language, so don't start with me xD)
I think the problem most people have with this is threefold.
First, yes a bit of selfishness. Lots of people like the new combat and think "why should an option be added for people who can't adapt to this new system, especially when the new system is obviously better?" (their opinion). People don't like the idea of the developers spending resources on something they won't use and don't want. That is only natural.
Second, say what you will but this would require additional balancing after the fact. You can argue "none of the other gamerules have been changed to be balanced after the fact" until you are blue in the face, but none of the other gamerules are anything like what this would be. Let's run through a scenario.
This gets implemented, and Mojang just doesn't modify how items work under 1.8 rules for combat, they only focus on the new combat. Mojang decides the enchantments are not balanced or that axes need to be rebalanced (things they did with 1.9 specifically for the new combat). Balance gets better for new combat. But then you have spam clicking axes that do massive amounts of damage for old combat, which is what you would get now. Say they add a new weapon that has armor piercing but a long cooldown, like a spear for example. Works fine on the new combat because it was balanced for that. But on the old combat armor just became worthless because you have a spam clicking weapon that ignores armor.
The first thing that would happen if any changes happen to the combat that are balanced in the new system would be people complaining that old combat is getting worse because it is unbalanced. And I mean basically any changes to weapon damage, armor protection, enchantments, attack speeds, etc. This is something that I can guarantee, and I know people who say that it doesn't need to be balanced would be right there with them because they didn't look ahead and see that including 2 combat modes but only balancing changes and additions to combat for one of the modes will severely unbalance the other one.
Third, because it is already incredibly easy to emulate 1.8 combat. Dozens of tutorials, from a single command to make swords work how they previously did to larger functions to modify the entire 1.9 plus combat system back to 1.8. And as an added bonus, if you run a server and don't want to rely on command blocks, there are plugins that do the very same thing.
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Hey
A couple of years ago, the release 1.9 edition was introduced to the Java edition of Minecraft. All of the new features added in that update are pretty cool, but there's a new 1.9 feature that is still hated by most Minecraft players. The new combat system. To be honest, I also dislike it. However, I came up with an idea that could be added in the 1.13 update. A new /gamerule called "attackCooldown", and if it's set to false, there will not be an attack cooldown for all players, and the PvP will be more like 1.8. I think that this will be very useful for people that dislike the new PvP, and for 1.9+ PvP server. Do you think this should be implemented in the upcoming 1.13 update? Vote on the poll.
Thanks
No no no. They're not going to roll back an entire update, when people can just simply set up a /give command that ignores the cooldown.
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If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
they should do that but u can set speed attack for a very high number
There's no point, the developers have already said they won't add a gamerule.
I have nothing here, go look somewhere else.
Does it really matter? Link or not, it doesn't change the fact that 1.9 combat is here to stay. A massive update was not made just to be "rolled back". How many times will this suggestion keep coming up?
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
And this is something, that has been stated over, and over again. If game developer makes big change, and works with it for OVER A YEAR, they aren't going to revert the changes. This is something, that haters isn't never going to get through their skulls.
Oh. And before I forget: No support.
I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about those users, who don't do anything else, than bash the new system using their own opinions as facts (eg. How it takes over 1 second to normal sword to charge it's cooldown meter back up). But indeed, 'hater' is quite powerful word, but it really is only word to describe those, who don't like 1.9+ combat system.
No, it's not just my opinion. I'd also like a new dimension to run around in, so I wouldn't just say that for no reason. If you don't want to believe me that's fine, but I wouldn't hold my breath for another dimension.
The new combat was meant to rebalance the combat overall. Not to have some awkward "back button" that undoes all of the effort done to rebalance the whole thing + the entire point of an update. Might as well add an option to remove hunger and creepers "bcuz ppl don't like them >:[[". Which would be a dumb idea because those two things are deeply part of the game no matter how much people hate them.
That also means such a gamerule paves the way for Mojang to have to cater to both types of combat without breaking balance for either of them. That's just goofy extra work.
I don't work for Mojang, but I am a game developer nonetheless. Regardless, you don't need to be a game dev to have decent common sense about what belongs in a game. I don't need to be a game dev to know that Glock 9's and McDonalds villagers shouldn't touch the game. The game being updated doesn't mean we'll get a weird update back button just because there's some disagreers out there.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
I think you missed my point by like 3 miles.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
You still aren't providing any sources. And, even if you did, Mojang has been known to pull complete 180s before.
And yet, they have continued to add a bunch of customization options, including adding NBT that lets you undo all of their work. By the way, you can easily disable hunger and creepers: use /effect minecraft:saturation and /tp @e[type=Creeper] ~ ~-100 ~. A couple of people disabling things they don't like isn't actually removing them from the game, and what one person's playstyle is has no effect on your overall enjoyment of the game.
Mojang has spent years creating the game's models and textures, and yet are perfectly fine with you undoing all their work with a resource pack. They spent years coding the game yet are fine with people overwriting everything with the upcoming data packs. They spent a good portion of 1.9 development developing Elytra, yet are perfectly fine with people who don't want to use them. Minecraft has been increasingly made to be tailored to the individual players' wants, and the developers have no problem if people want to play the game differently than they intended. I doubt they're angry at those who currently are disabling the cooldown through the current (and convoluted) method.
Who says they have to rebalance the game for both playstyles? No other gamerule requires any sort of rebalancing, because changing a gamerule is essentially modding the game and thus balance is no longer Mojang's issue.
If this was just a small vocal minority I'd agree with you. However, as the "combat in 1.9 good or bad" thread poll says, it's nearly 40% of players. They are alienating more than a third of players and such a large group shouldn't be ignored.
Glock 9's and McDonalds villagers don't belong in the game because they have no precedent and don't fit the game's time period. However, the old combat was already there and fits into the game just as well as the current combat; neither "feels" out of place, it's just a matter of preference.
Want to see my suggestions? Here they are!
I am also known as GameWyrm or GameWyrm97. You can also find me at snapshotmc.com
So then there was no point in ever having to find that quote this whole time? As for 180's, yes, they happened. There's also stuff that stayed the way it was even a bunch of suggesters begged for changes.
A couples of those examples don't fit the argument. The commands are cheats and not in the game by default. Peaceful difficulty is... a difficulty. There's different playstyles, but you still should consider balance. Sometimes, not everyone likes the added balance but it's still necessary.
These examples don't work at all. A resource pack is just changing textures... Combat is something that you need to exist in order to deal with hostile mobs. How does using/not using an elytra even remotely prove anything? A ton of players wanted combat changes for years, and now that we got them, they're getting all teary-eyed because they want things to be easier again - as if they have no idea what side they're on...
Well yeah, no other gamerules requires rebalancing because most of them are cheats that are officially implemented in survival by default. If you want the older combat, just play an older version. I'm not the biggest fan of the new combat either, but I understand why we have it.
That 40% need to just get used to the new combat and understand why "looolclickclickCLIIICKdurr" spammy spam spam clicking wasn't very skill based. Spam clicking is still there, it's just not as effective. But hey, at least we got shields to compensate that, so what's the big deal?
The game doesn't have a definite time period, hence having jukeboxes and music records. But it leans toward the medieval times more than any other time. I don't see how either type of combat fits or unfits. It's just... combat. It's just a sword that does damage differently.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
As far as the desire for feature revisions go, those have always been wanted by only small minorities, like the poppy revision. The only thing that came close was hunger, and that has been disable-able for years now.
Balance is important, but not if it means that the player won't have fun because of it. Fun is always more important than balance. There are many games out there, such as Dynasty Warriors, which throw balance to the wind so that the player will have a good time. Features in Minecraft should be made with balance in mind, but if it makes the game unfun for a lot of players, either a compromise or an alternate solution needs to be found. It's too late to find an alternate solution, so a compromise, such as a gamerule, is the way to go.
What I'm saying is that Mojang is all for customizability, whether it's something as pointless as textures or as game-changing as overwriting game data. They've always wanted players to be able to play however they want—so why is combat any different?
Pre 1.9, combat suggestions weren't actually that common and were more about adding variety. If they wanted to add a cooldown, it was to give different types of weapons different attributes, not to address spam-clicking. I still see these kinds of suggestions from time to time which shows that 1.9 didn't actually solve the combat problem.
What about keepInventory? That's used by a significant portion of the community but isn't on by default, yet it does nothing to rebalance the game.
"Just play an older version" is a terrible excuse. If that was acceptable, then anything could be added to the game and all Mojang would have to say to defend it is "play an older version that didn't have it." It's comparable to the "just use a mod" argument that is banned on this forum.
Guess what? I'm part of that 40%. You're making a major assumption there. Skill is important, but the degree to which it is depends on how "hardcore" the game's audience is. Minecraft is targeted towards casual gamers, who don't care about skill so much as just having fun.
If you want to play a skill-based game, play something that's geared towards hardcore gamers, like Dark Souls or Breath of the Wild. Don't try to force it into a game that's clearly not about skill.
It's not so much about the time period so much as the context. Before their implementation, jukeboxes wouldn't really have fit the game's medieval context. However, now that they have been implemented, the game's context is more of a steampunk period, where we do have stuff ahead of medieval times, but not in a way that parallels real life.
Regardless, you agreed with me there. I was saying that it's pretty obvious why stuff like guns and restaurants should stay out of the game, but its a much more gray area when it comes to combat. Therefore, it takes more than just common sense to know whether we should have 1.9 combat. I agree that 1.9 combat is better than 1.8 combat, but whether we should force everyone to use it is another matter.
Want to see my suggestions? Here they are!
I am also known as GameWyrm or GameWyrm97. You can also find me at snapshotmc.com
Not seeing how hunger makes a good comparison next to combat.
Where the hell did you get that line of thinking from? This is a dangerous, flimsy line of thinking. This wouldn't even apply at all to a class-based multiplayer game, because the bad balance will stick out and ruin someone's day despite how much "fun" there was supposed to be.
I thought I explained all of this already. Because durrherpclickyclickyspamspam gameplay wasn't very appealing and skill-based. I wouldn't complain if Mojang added a goofy combat gamerule, but it'd be a very goofy move. And the way things look now, it looks like new combat is here to stay. People have been complaining about this a long time and it seems Mojang isn't budging. I'm sure Mojang knew the boiling 1.9 hate was gonna happen even before they made the update.
But it now involves actually planning and timing instead of beating your mouse to death and getting an auto-win.
Stiiiiill pretty different from always-there-no-matter-what combat...
Why did Mojang change the combat int he first place? To troll us? To feed off our rage?
Is the new combat really all that bad? Is it bad because it's just objectively terribly done? Or is it bad because people just don't like the change from easy combat to more-effort combat? Again, we have shields which balances it out. Actually, we have two hand slots overall.
It really doesn't take that much skill to get used to the new combat... You can still spam jumping/critical hits like the player character's restless legs did a bump of coke. Sometimes "a lot of people dun like it" is not a very good reason. Sometimes the problem is the players and not so much the devs.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
i actually think this should be a thing everyother thing can be disabled/changed and mojang doesn't care
there are pvp servers that still run 1.8.9 because people actually play them and like the combat
if you like the new combat fine i have no problem but other people don't like it and even if the situation was reversed the drama would be the same,
some players hate the combat because they were used to the old not because it's hard or stupid
It's a perfect comparison—it was something that was hated at release by a significant portion of people that people wanted to be made optional, and it became so in the form of peaceful difficulty and later the saturation effect.
I originally mentioned this when I was writing the post for the first time, but then my browser crashed and I forgot to put it in again.
Anyway, balance does matter in a multiplayer game—because, as you said, poor balance will ruin the fun of players. It still comes down to making the game as fun as possible. Making the game too hard or too easy (shifting the balance) will also hurt the player's overall fun with the game, as the lack of a challenge fails to stimulate the player's interest and making it too hard will annoy them and cause them to rage quit. You have to find the point of balance where the fun is at its peak, not the other way around. With a game as large as Minecraft, however, there is no one sweet spot, and so you give the individual players customization options so they can find that sweet spot for themselves.
To you. You don't represent the entire player base.
I'm sure they assume every new feature is going to get some hate. However, I wouldn't blame them if they didn't realize just how much hate this feature would get.
I find shields to be much more of an auto-win than spam clicking ever was. It was balanced when it was added, but now it's been buffed to the point that I have yet to die in 1.12. In fact, when combined with the OP health regeneration, I'd say combat now is even less balanced than it was in 1.8.
It's the closest comparison there is. An always-there-no-matter-what- lack of any real death consequence is significant enough to prove my point. If you don't believe me, provide some actual counter argument
Why does Mojang add anything to the game? Because, for better or worse, they want to. In the end our opinions don't matter if Mojang feels different; they won't add anything if they don't want to and you'll have to convince them otherwise to get your feature in.
I don't find either system of combat to be harder or easier than the other. It boils down to a matter of preference. So, why is your preference so important that others can't have theirs?
1.9 combat isn't bad. In fact, I'll go as far as to say it's objectively good, because even if it didn't add enough, it did add some variety. But, it doesn't matter how good it is if you aren't having fun with it.
The players are the ones paying the devs and are the people whom the game is made for. They should be listened to, even if the problem is with them.
A lot of reasons you've provided are good reasons not to revert 1.9's combat, but they aren't good reasons to deny any kind of compromise. That's why you give any kind of compromise, because "a lot of people dun like" the original concept. We, along with the devs, aren't objective thinkers, so to our knowledge, neither choice is right.
Also, explain to me how a lot of people not liking something isn't a good reason in this case. If that were true, then even if 100% of players disliked the 1.9 combat it shouldn't be reverted if it was objectively better.
Want to see my suggestions? Here they are!
I am also known as GameWyrm or GameWyrm97. You can also find me at snapshotmc.com
I wouldn't mind if it was added, because I'm not affected. but I don't support it. You can't pick and choose what features of an update you want, and what to discard. This is a major gripe I have with some servers nowadays. They have 5, 5 updates you can use. 1.8, 1.9, 1.10, 1.11, and 1.12. That's a little extreme, just because a bunch of people are too stupid to learn when to attack. Of course, you could have an actual complaint with it, like how it actually doesn't balance the game with shields blocking 100% of damage, Totem of Undying, and it takes a generally longer period of time to battle an opponent. So while I don't care because it doesn't effect me personally, I would say no to the gamerule.
Neither do you, or me, or anyone else on this forum. And yes, while you're part of the 40%, that's STILL minority. The vocal minority, but still a minority.
Yes, the new combat system did break up the player base even more, than it already was before (remember, there was the calm and casual survival and even calmer creative servers in addition to constant chaos of PvP servers. Yes, I think, that PvP servers doesn't have anything else, than chaos in them, hence the PvP) There has been several threads suggesting an addition of either "slider" to the options, or game rule to revert to old combat for those, who desires so. And every single one of them has been bashed to shreds. So much so, that these threads have kind of become pointless and redundant.
The reason I said that is because he was giving a highly subjective statement as objective fact. I was just pointing out that his opinion isn't necessarily true.
All I'm saying is that we should have a compromise. 40% isn't high enough to merit a revision on the combat, but it is high enough to merit a compromise. If a gamerule is constantly suggested despite being constantly bashed, I think that would mean it's time to reconsider. Why do people dislike the idea of a gamerule so much? Is it just stubbornness, or does having a gamerule in the game actually hurt one's ability to enjoy it?
Want to see my suggestions? Here they are!
I am also known as GameWyrm or GameWyrm97. You can also find me at snapshotmc.com
You do realize, that this same can be implemented to you as well, as me, and any other user writing on this forum, how biased it might be.
Every opinion is either true, or false, but still an opinion. For me, and for Cerroz the "durrherpclickyclickyspamspam", like he calls it isn't really appealing, nor does it have any real skill needed. Other, than when to attack/lunge towards that poor soul, who aren't prepared for it. Now the same goes to the new system, but at least the player who gets targeted have time to lift his/her shield up after the initial attack.
True. It might. But I highly doubt it will ever be implemented. Not that it would save the player base, that has already been split in more, than 2 halfs.
Sorry. Had to do that. Well, that's one exact reason. Really. And also, how much the pro 1.9 combat peeps actually hate the old system. They don't even want to see little piece of it on the game anymore. Sooo....
I would say no, but that's just my opinion. How wrong or true it might be. But like I said, I do not see it happening any time soon, if ever. C'est la vie, is all I can say to this. (And that's only stuff I know of the language, so don't start with me xD)
I think the problem most people have with this is threefold.
First, yes a bit of selfishness. Lots of people like the new combat and think "why should an option be added for people who can't adapt to this new system, especially when the new system is obviously better?" (their opinion). People don't like the idea of the developers spending resources on something they won't use and don't want. That is only natural.
Second, say what you will but this would require additional balancing after the fact. You can argue "none of the other gamerules have been changed to be balanced after the fact" until you are blue in the face, but none of the other gamerules are anything like what this would be. Let's run through a scenario.
This gets implemented, and Mojang just doesn't modify how items work under 1.8 rules for combat, they only focus on the new combat. Mojang decides the enchantments are not balanced or that axes need to be rebalanced (things they did with 1.9 specifically for the new combat). Balance gets better for new combat. But then you have spam clicking axes that do massive amounts of damage for old combat, which is what you would get now. Say they add a new weapon that has armor piercing but a long cooldown, like a spear for example. Works fine on the new combat because it was balanced for that. But on the old combat armor just became worthless because you have a spam clicking weapon that ignores armor.
The first thing that would happen if any changes happen to the combat that are balanced in the new system would be people complaining that old combat is getting worse because it is unbalanced. And I mean basically any changes to weapon damage, armor protection, enchantments, attack speeds, etc. This is something that I can guarantee, and I know people who say that it doesn't need to be balanced would be right there with them because they didn't look ahead and see that including 2 combat modes but only balancing changes and additions to combat for one of the modes will severely unbalance the other one.
Third, because it is already incredibly easy to emulate 1.8 combat. Dozens of tutorials, from a single command to make swords work how they previously did to larger functions to modify the entire 1.9 plus combat system back to 1.8. And as an added bonus, if you run a server and don't want to rely on command blocks, there are plugins that do the very same thing.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum