Design Challenge: free-floating, self-powered flying machine!.

  • #1
    ================================================
    At present I would like to refocus our efforts on reducing the number of actions a player must take to move forward using piston engines (MPB, or "Moves Per Block"). Some guidelines:

    *Pointing from one direction to another counts as an action.
    *Scrolling a space in the inventory counts as an action.
    *Each click counts as an action.
    *Pressing a single key to move in a direction counts as an action. pressing two keys to move in a specific action will be counted as two actions.
    *Actions are counted on a per-blocks moved basis, so a machine that moves two blocks every 4 actions is worth 2 actions per move.
    *"Refueling", as in adding more blocks to the inventory or something similar, is counted separately, as a sort of tie breaker.
    *In general, any keypresses count as actions. Opening the inventory, for example.
    *Finally, placing a lever counts as an action, while holding down the mouse button and flicking it in order to move counts as an additional half an action, or .5

    ================================================

    I am effectively looking for something akin to the following monstrosity (which isn't my design):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzzxS_MP8sQ

    Except self contained... and in the air! I would kill for some sort of piston powered flying machine, and I'm here to see it happen - even if only in the form of inefficient proof of concept.

    Rules:

    *It must be, as mentioned, completely self contained It must not need any form of track to be built, unless the device places the track semi automatically.
    *It may be semi-automatic, and thus require some form of constant player input to operate. However, said input must be extremely simple. More than 5 steps in unhelpful.
    *No mods, obviously. Mods and/or bugging Notch for an update would kinda defeat the purpose. However, a practical glitch that enables perpetual flight is definitely welcome.
    *If you have an idea, post it! :happy.gif: Even if it doesn't fly, all related discoveries and close calls are a beautiful ballad of progress. Never hold back!
    *No snail trails, unless the machine makes up for it somehow.


    Why this is a challenge: As far as I know, there are no redstone power sources which can remain on a block as it is moved. Many, many reasons.

    Best design *Any design* wins a place in the Minecraft hall of fame forever!

    Also, check out this: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/793189-minestadium-version-01-2/ and this: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/793088-flying-barge-race-time-race-and-combat-mode/

    ~Assorted Designs~



    Note: I'll update the MPB for these in due time. Patience please :happy.gif:

    Abdiel's capsule machine: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10209403

    Note that it can have another pair of pistons in the bottom center, as using redstone torches to power the machine will power them as well (12 MPB): http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__11795463

    Skyshark_'s moveable clock: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10210028

    There is a fairly fast monorail proof of concept here: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10221473

    Some weird piston physics discovered here: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10223970

    The sky barge is born: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10231387

    The updated sky barge, with headlights, a cargo hold, and a crafting table: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10247939

    My sky barge, using minecarts as player carrying containers or cargo holds: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10252998

    Abdiel's slightly larger sky barge: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10345022

    Vertical transportation (doesn't work sideways; pressure plates aren't the only things that can work): http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__11269525

    Owl24's sideways elevator thingamajig: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__11282624

    drone13's rapid lever flicking system (: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__11805652

    Eibenholz's battleship: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/788103-design-challenge-free-floating-self-powered-flying-machine/page__view__findpost__p__10850042


    What we know & what may help~




    • Our primary difficulty is powering the rear piston, when using the piston inch-worm design.
    • Detector rails are a power source which can be pushed by pistons.
    • Redstone ore does not power anything.
    • Players will fall through blocks being pushed by pistons, unless said blocks are stairs. Or the player in a minecart.
    • Sponges update all blocks in a 5x5 area around themselves.
    • Sand can be used to more or less overcome the idea of a trail floating in space, as it, well... falls.
    • Rails can be pushed and pulled, but not at the same time as the blocks beneath them. If this happens, they will break.


    Ready? Now let's do this thing! But first, an inspirational quote:

    you cant do it.... it just wont work at all it wont work...

    ~Tauschung


    Prove 'em wrong!

    Prove that guy wrong too.

    |
    V
    Last edited by TheMightyAnonym: 1/10/2012 2:40:03 PM
  • #2
    Impossible much? How are we supposed to make something move with redstone if there is nothing to place the redstone on? Also, that monorail is pretty slow.

    Edit: Yeah, prove me wrong! And what I said in the post was based on a misconception I got when reading this.

    Also, first of hundreds!
    Last edited by gustav165: 1/8/2012 1:12:12 PM
    I like redstone. If you respond to my post please quote it or I won't be notified.
    IGN: RainyTree
  • #3
    does a redstone (unmined) block power a piston when its activated?
    [SSSS]
  • #4
    There actually is one power source that can be moved: detector rail. Pistons can move detector rail to another suitable block. And the detector rail will stay in place if a piston moves the block its on, as long as it's replaced with another suitable block.

    So you'd need some kind of system that has at least two layers of pistons, one set of pistons moving the detector rail and the other layer moving the blocks its on. As the vehicle moves the detector rail would alternate which block it's on, and a minecart to trigger it would be carried along for the ride.

    Then you'd have to figure out how to actually wire that detector rail so it controls the pistons. Which would probably require using even more pistons, to trigger other minecarts with powered rail and more detector rail.
    Last edited by Regular_Hexahedron: 11/14/2011 1:44:44 PM
    To see a list of my redstone inventions check out Regular Hexahedron's Inventorium!
  • #5
    "Impossible much? How are we supposed to make something move with redstone if there is nothing to place the redstone on? Also, that monorail is pretty slow. "


    *cough* Wright Brothers *cough*

    A design where the "pilot" places a pressure plate or something to that effect would be acceptable, even if it reeks of inefficiency. Rule of cool and the like are key here, although a slow semi auto flying machine could have possible applications.

    "does a redstone (unmined) block power a piston when its activated? "


    It doesn't seem so, no.

    "There actually is one power source that can be moved: detector rail. Pistons can move detector rail to another suitable block. And the detector rail will stay in place if a piston moves the block its on, as long as it's replaced with another suitable block.

    So you'd need some kind of system that has at least two layers of pistons, one set of pistons moving the detector rail and the other layer moving the blocks its on. As the vehicle moves the detector rail would alternate which block it's on, and a minecart to trigger it would be carried along for the ride.

    Then you'd have to figure out how to actually wire that detector rail so it controls the pistons. Which would probably require using even more pistons, to trigger other minecarts with powered rail and more detector rail. "


    Holy shart, I summoned genuis inventor regular Hexahedron!

    I didn't even think of detector rails!

    I need to get to work! Imma build a slow-moving monstrosity which incinerates the land below with lava! :biggrin.gif:

    BRILLIANT! AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!

    *ahem*

    This is my greatest thread.
    Last edited by TheMightyAnonym: 1/1/2012 9:54:18 PM
  • #6
    I've been playing with this a while ago. Requires manual input (breaking and placing blocks), but flies in the air and requires only a finite amount of resources.

    :cobblestone: = piston body (facing right)
    :Logs^: = piston head
    :mossystone: = sticky piston body (facing left)
    :Turquoise: = sticky piston head
    :soil: = any easily breakable block
    :|: = lever
    :Notch: = player

    Start:

    :|: :Notch:
    :soil: :soil:
    :cobblestone: :mossystone:

    Flick the lever on and off:

    :|: :Notch:
    :soil: :soil:
    :cobblestone: :Logs^: :mossystone:

    :|: :Notch:
    :soil: :soil:
    :cobblestone: :: :mossystone:

    Remove and recollect the left block and lever (stand on the left piston):

    :: ::
    :Notch: :soil:
    :cobblestone: :: :mossystone:

    Place a block with a lever on the right piston:

    :: :Notch: :|:
    :: :soil: :soil:
    :cobblestone: :: :mossystone:

    Flick the lever on and off:

    :: :Notch: :|:
    :: :soil: :soil:
    :cobblestone: :Turquoise: :mossystone:

    :: :Notch: :|:
    :: :soil: :soil:
    :: :cobblestone: :mossystone:

    Remove the lever and place it on the left block:

    :: :|: :Notch:
    :: :soil: :soil:
    :: :cobblestone: :mossystone:

    Repeat from the start!

    It's actually not as slow as you'd think once you get used to the rythm, and definitely hilarious to use in SMP to fly over people's heads.


    You can make it two-way by mirroring the pair of pistons on the other side, so they'd go:

    Normal piston facing right | Sticky piston facing left | Sticky piston facing right | Normal piston facing left

    Then activate either side as above to move left or right.

    As far as I know, it's impossible to make it go in all four directions or up and down with only finite resources (i.e. no dropping destroyed blocks on the ground).


    edit: Detector rails. Off to my lab. :dry.gif:
    Last edited by Abdiel: 11/14/2011 1:57:42 PM
  • #7
    Oooh, very nice, simple design. Iy has a quaint charm about it that would be fun on a server :smile.gif:

    It would be hilarious crossing the sea with one of these, and shooting players in pvp
  • #8
    I used to use it to gather glowstone in the nether.

    Warning: device is not ghast-proof.
  • #9
    Hmm, ghasts never fire at players when they don't have a direct line of sight, so perhaps some kind of curtain could be added to the device?
    Last edited by TheMightyAnonym: 11/14/2011 2:02:46 PM
  • #10
    Quote from Abdiel

    I used to use it to gather glowstone in the nether.

    Warning: device is not ghast-proof.


    thats brilliant :ohmy.gif: i allways wondered how to do that without digging my way there and creating platforms everywhere
    [SSSS]
  • #11
    doesn't work, it's provably impossible for a fully automated one with current mechanics this is because the only way to do it would have a setup like this to push the system

    :cobblestone: normal piston
    :mossystone: sticky piston
    :Notch: any other block

    :cobblestone: :mossystone: :Notch: :Notch: :Notch:

    the problem is it is impossible to get power to the normal piston because it would require power to pass through the sticky piston which it can't because sticky pistons act as transparent blocks.
    Last edited by Grizdale: 11/14/2011 2:12:19 PM
  • #12
    Quote from TheMightyAnonym

    Hmm, ghasts never fire at players when they don't have a direct line of sight, so perhaps some kind of curtain could be added to the device?



    Uhh I guess it's possible to build a bunch of these to form a wall, but movement will be awfully slow.
    Last edited by Abdiel: 11/14/2011 2:05:25 PM
  • #13
    Should be impossible due to not being able to push redstone.
    Quote from Vechs
    Advance with courage and conviction. Strike them down in the name of the God-Emperor and the Golden Throne of the Imperium.
  • #14
    At present, the only truly automatic design would indeed require every part of the machine to be placed in front of an engine. This is impossible, as mentioned, due the the impossibility of transmitting current through a piston. However, the door is still open for exploitation of Hexahedron's point, which is that rails CAN be pushed. Of course, this could be a bit messy and complicated, hence it would also be difficult to make useful.

    Thus, I reconstruct my goals to the present mechanism:

    *The device built should require only one simple movement to operate on the part of the pilot. Case in point, the device which uses levers and easily broken blocks is very difficult to pilot until one gets the hang of it.
    *The device is allowed to waste some form of easily attainable "fuel", such as dirt or cobble.
  • #15
    Quote from TheMightyAnonym

    *cough* Write Brothers *cough*

    A design where the "pilot" places a pressure plate or something to that effect would be acceptable, even if it reeks of inefficiency. Rule of cool and the like are key here, although a slow semi auto flying machine could have possible applications.



    It doesn't seem so, no.



    Holy shart, I summoned genuis inventor regular Hexahedron!

    I didn't even think of detector rails!

    I need to get to work! Imma build a slow-moving monstrosity which incinerates the land below with lava! :biggrin.gif:

    BRILLIANT! AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!

    *ahem*

    This is my greatest thread.


    Sethbling made a video on how to create redstone circuitry only using rail and pistons. Maybe that could provide some inspiration.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=753sKN64YhQ
    To see a list of my redstone inventions check out Regular Hexahedron's Inventorium!
  • #16
    I made a mostly ghast-proof version.





    The cut-through profile is this:

    :: :cobblestone: ::
    :cobblestone: :: :cobblestone:
    :cobblestone: :: :cobblestone:
    :: :cobblestone: ::

    The "engine" moves a compartment in front of it (left in the screenshots), which is where you stand. If you put a block on the bottom piston and a lever on top of it, the lever will move all six pistons. The movement is the same as the simple version.

    Be aware of a glitch with standing on moving blocks: you need to stand on the line between two blocks. If your body is completely on one block, you will fall through when that block moves.

    The moving compartment protects from blasts (obviously, make it out of stone), but you can still be shot directly from the front or back.


    edit, this would be awesome for dropping TNT on people in PvP, while being 100% protected from arrows.
    Last edited by Abdiel: 11/14/2011 2:32:01 PM
  • #17
    Quote from TheMightyAnonym

    However, the door is still open for exploitation of Hexahedron's point, which is that rails CAN be pushed. Of course, this could be a bit messy and complicated, hence it would also be difficult to make useful.


    rails have already been thought of and tried the problem is they need a block to stand on however they are the most promising still as they are the only move-able power source
  • #18
    Quote from Abdiel

    edit, this would be awesome for dropping TNT on people in PvP, while being 100% protected from arrows.


    lol untill you reach their tnt cannon xD

    i noticed moving upwards is only posible if the amount of blocks under your piston cunstruction is larger then 16 and above must be smaller! so moving upwards is imposible i guess.

    you could to move upwards use the 2x4+lever model and remove the toplayer add new pistons and remove the bottom pistons :biggrin.gif: move 1 block upwards but then you could better make a bridge right away xD
    Last edited by MCFUser691319: 11/14/2011 2:45:15 PM
    [SSSS]
  • #19
    The other issue is falling through it.. since moving a block under you can cause you to fall through it unless your on the edge of two blocks.
  • #20
    flying... realised in real world but inaccesible in creative in minecraft... maybe there is an end to imagination...

    If you like my style (or my post) just push the green button in the corner right!
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