Edit: In order to be indie, you cannot be have a publisher by definition. The Call of Duty franchise was published by Activision and Aspyr Media, that takes them out of the running as well.
Bethesda is not an indie developer (At least not since Morrowind since Oblivion had an impressive development team) because they are kicked out of the running by their development team size and their budgets.
The Call of Duty franchise is taken out of the running because they had not one, but two publishers. The Elder Scrolls does not fit in this category because they are self developed and published, which is a good choice for Zenimax Media, the company that owns them.
To quote Wikipedia (and pretty much anyone in the industry's definition) of what an indie game is,
Independent video games (commonly referred to as indie games) are video games created by individuals or small teams without video game publisher financial support.
While the teams for Elder Scrolls are large, they are still not "large teams" as some game companies (*cough EA cough*) put hundreds of people on a team. Also, it is important to note that Bethesda in-house published their own game, and that is a major part of the definition of being an indie game.
"Listen, seriously, honestly, c'mon. I have a $2,400 computer system, purchased ~1 year ago. I can run Skyrim, CoD: BOII, xxxxx <--- insert game @ 15,528,208 FPS" ^ Highly doubtful sillyhead.
To quote Wikipedia (and pretty much anyone in the industry's definition) of what an indie game is,
While the teams for Elder Scrolls are large, they are still not "large teams" as some game companies (*cough EA cough*) put hundreds of people on a team. Also, it is important to note that Bethesda in-house published their own game, and that is a major part of the definition of being an indie game.
Also, your post above the one I quoted, I agree.
90 people is a large team. Oblivion (Not including the DLC/expansion) had a much larger team than Skyrim. Skyrim at end-production had over 100 people on their team.
Yes, Bethseda is self publishing. But as the wiki (You too quoted) states, in order to be an indie developer, you need a small team (Morrowind had roughly 34 and one stuffed animal on their production team. CoD, for example, had less than that but they are published by Activision.)
TES franchise cannot be considered Indie. Not since Morrowind's small Dev team (I could not find any budget quotes). Skyrim's mindblowing budget is enough to knock it out of the park, out of the country and into orbit when it comes to defining what is or is not indie.
Edit: After some half-ass looking, I cannot find solid numbers for EA development teams. The Mass Effect games are unsuitable for this as they were developed by Bioware. EA has (thankfully) allowed BioWare to remain their own entity, they are simply owned by a completely different company. It seems that most of EA's games are "subcontracted out" to smaller development teams, so one could argue that EA does not put "hundreds of people" on a team. For example, Medal of Honor: Warfighter was developed by a team called Danger Close Games -- not EA. EA tends to be more a parent company and a "household name" as opposed to a developer.
Please state where you read that MC was giving you something else than what you bought. Tell us where they announced "we will implement high resolution textures" or "we will give you another engine" or anything else. When you Buy a car they also DONT give you a new engine for the same money afterwards "just because you bought it". you also dont get the newest BMW cause you bought an older one. (Yes, basically you ask for "give me Skyrim Graphics as i bought the Game while it looks pixely and you made money!!!")
They're rebuilding the client from the ground up, so yeah I think they did say they're making a new engine.
I'll try to get the link or something. It's in a locked thread somewhere, they're remaking the client for the mod API.
I hate to be off topic and sound stupid, but are you a mojang employee, Rinnsal? Just wondering...
Anyways, I have nothing to say to this thread. What would Minecraft 2 be? Circles? I think I want Scrolls more.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
GENERATION 27: When you see this put it in your signature and add 1 to the generation
I hate to be off topic and sound stupid, but are you a mojang employee, Rinnsal? Just wondering...
Anyways, I have nothing to say to this thread. What would Minecraft 2 be? Circles? I think I want Scrolls more.
If you are a Swedish citizen, that information is publically available, I believe. Not sure if it's available if you aren't a Swedish citizen. I imagine the money is being used to continue running the company. They aren't cheap, and there are things like taxes, leases, payroll, etc. Another consideration is that the implication here is essentially that they should be using the money to fix bugs by hiring more developers.... They already did that, though. And a team that is too big works far less effectively, especially on a game as comparatively small as Minecraft. Even as they have it now, they've sort of modularized development, Grum is working on the new renderer, for example, while Dinnerbone is trying to prepare the 1.4 codebase for an API, as well as fix bugs on the tracker. I imagine it's much the same story for Jens. They both will implement quick features to the game as well; Many people think "OMG They added Item frames but I still have this giant bug!"... this is an epic misunderstanding of time management.
But honestly from a consumer standpoint I would be making Minecraft 2. ITS OWN FREAKING ENGINE. Or, a tested engine. I mean, I'm not expecting Unreal or CoD X here, just, cmon, JAVA?! Are you kidding me? How many of you have had "A JAVA EXCEPTION HAS OCCURED!" or some crappy popup ruin your Minecraft? Even when you aren't playing it!? Get your ow engine Mojang!
This makes no sense. At all. for several reasons: First, there isn't an established "engine" that would have worked reasonably for Minecraft. Second, Java is not an engine. Third, Minecraft already has it's own engine. It even supports MD3 models, though I don't imagine that has been used recently (might have even been removed)
I get it. I am not a computer programmer. I don't know what is required for an update. Maybe it requires 100 people, and 1,000 hours of work a peice to make an update. I don't know. But, at the same time, what isup with these upates? Kitties? Jungles? Carrots? Okay, great, I get that you have a team that is small, independent, but c'mon? That's all you got? With like 4-6 months in-between time? Give me something, please, this isn't enough for me as a consumer.
Wow. Talk about misconceptions. Every single update can't make it an entirely new game for you. It's also worth noting that those are only the changes you can see. (And an incomplete list at that) 1.2.1 also added a number of other features, bugfixes, as well as the beginnings of some refactoring in the game in the first efforts to move towards a Mod API.
Listen, seriously, honestly, c'mon. I have a $2,400 computer system, purchased ~1 year ago. I can run Skyrim, CoD: BOII, xxxxx <--- insert game @ 15,528,208 FPS.
My computer was 1000$ and I built it four years ago and it runs Minecraft fine. I do have problems with heavy mod packs, but then the problem isn't with Minecraft itself.
I install one measly 64x64 texture pac and I drop to 14 FPS? What gies?
64x64 texture packs currently require third party hacks. The results of those hacks is that internally the game mostly thinks that textures are 16x16, but the hacks patch on higher-res textures on top of that. In some cases this can cause duplicate code; I don't know about know but some earlier versions of MCPatcher (when I used it last) patched some higher resolution texture support on top of the existing 16x16 code, meaning that it basically sent two complete faces; Z-fighting (when you have faced in the same location, they get that weird effect, just look at the bottom of the beacon for an example) was solved by moving the higher resolution texture out by a teensy bit. Thing is though that those points and polies are still being processed at the GPU level, and this practically doubles the polygon load. It can also affect texture caching both at the GPU level as well as for the game; the GPU has two complete sets of textures, a 16x16 one that Minecraft knows about, and a higher resolution one thrown on top of it by the patcher. The game only knows about the 16x16 version, and the patches essentially change a few calls into LWJGL so that LWJGL uses the higher res textures. This can affect texture caching too. They are working on adding built-in support in the upcoming version for higher resolution texture packs, so your performance problems should be lessened when they do.
Seriously. 2 Grand on my end, roughly 1 month of sweat and blood and I can't run your indie game at a moderate level. What's the deal here? We are talking 16x16 shaders and such? Is this because of JAVA? Get your own engine, or something, hell IDK. Something, CMON!
Even given the above, my PC doesn't have problems with 128x128 textures and that unbelievable shaders (last done with 1.2.5). I usually got a pretty solid 100fps, though sometimes water would cause FPS drops down to around 40 for large sections of water.
I don't know what I am expecting here, but, seriously. 1.4.x release! CARROTS! WITHERS! WITCHES! BEACONS! ETC.! Okay I get it, I have to reinstall addons, but, 8 days later, 1.4.x1! OMFG! My stuff doesn't work anymore! Thank god I get to mod my ENTIRE FREAKING GAME AGAIN, DUE TO A STUPID UPDATE THAT I DIDN'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH TO BEGIN WITH. THANK YOU MOJANG. ANOTHER HOUR OF MESSING AROUND IN FILES JUST TO MAKE YOUR GAME WORK. You guys rock! (Insert SARC)
You don't have to update. If the issues and bugs that the released version fixes don't affect you, then why did you update? That's pretty silly logic. The update is no longer forced on you since the updated launcher released alongside Beta 1.1 (around there), so it's pretty easy to simply say not now. You can also back up the jar file, update, and then replace the jar with the old version, and you won't get bothered about updates until another version is released.
but everyone plays this for SMP.
Speak for yourself. "everyone" doesn't play this for SMP, and attempting to make any point by making such obviously specious arguments almost makes your points moot.
Where is the BROWSER for this kind of stuff? Even if you nix all the prior recommendations and just have this sort of thing, with mods downloadable and just, BAM, you are in the game, WTF!? Is it that hard?
Yes, it is that hard. A Server browser architecture typically relies on a master server; when you start a server, it "phones home" to that server, and says "HAI! I'm a server, here's my MOTD, my player limit, and my address! Tell the peeps that visit! k thx" and the master server list makes a note of that. When you open the Server Browser, it doesn't magically find current Servers, instead it asks the master server "hai can you send me a list of servers plz k thx" and the server sends it the list. And players connect to it. A simple implementation might just fill up your multiplayer list with Servers.
But it's not really that simple. the entire thing needs it's own protocol; Servers need to be able to tell the master server when something about them changes- say their player list, or their name, or whatever; and the server needs a way to push those changes. And even if we ignore the second part and just have the client multiplayer list (in each person's game) ask for the server list, it's going to need each server to have a unique ID, so it can see when a server it knows about has it's name changed. It's either that, or it goes through every single one in the list and adds it, and I can't imagine that being particularly performant. (most existing server browsers in other games use a "push" architecture where the master server pushes changes to listening clients). But then how do we make the ID? Servers could have their own ID defined in the properties, but then you can DDOS other servers by impersonating their ID. the master server could assign IDs, but who keeps track of the IDs? the Server, the master server, or the client? etc. It's quite difficult.
Dorky McDork's Awesome SMP Non-Violent Server 10/10 ---- 4/10 Reviews
Stupid McDouche's SMP PvP Raid/Grief Server 17/204 --- 27/37 Reviews
A list like this would require much of the architecture I described above; including some weird review thing that is completely outside the scope of the server browser anyway. For example would you need to refresh the list manually? If so, how do you keep it performant? Does the master server send this information to the client, or does it just send the addresses and let the client query the server itself? And if the master server keeps it, how often does it refresh it from each server? If the server pushes list information changes to the client, how are unique servers identified, and who generates the unique key, and what happens if a server is able to impersonate another server's key, does it take precedence, and DDOS that other server, and how do you mitigate that possibility?
I mean, cmon, is it really that hard? You join, download, play, get on with your life. Even if you kept like a top 100 list, or SOMETHING. Christ.
Yes, it really is that hard. You are like the person who looks at a building and goes "bah how hard is it to build a skyscraper, you just put some iron bars and wood and stack it high", while oblivious to the engineering that actually takes place.
YOU ALL MAY THINK I AM COMPLAINING AND NOT ENJOYING. True, true.
You're complaints are reasonable to the ignorant... (And I don't use that word insultingly, you yourself have said that you are ignorant of these concerns by virtue of not being a programmer or really understanding how the industry works).
But at the same time, These guys have made like, what, 500 Million dollars off of us/you/me?
I paid $15 dollars and I'm happy with the product I've had for the last 2 years for that price. I really don't care how much they've made in total; that's other people's money, not mine. They are certainly free to think that the product is not work the money they paid for it, but they cannot make a call to class action without some sort of consent by the others. that 500 million dollars (or whatever it really is) is not mine. It's not yours, and it's certainly not something you can bring up when you are unhappy with the game. The only monetary investment an individual made to the game is somewhere around 15-30 dollars, depending on when they bought it. The actual revenue they made from the game is completely redundant to a person's satisfaction with the product.
WTF are you doing? I'm not asking for a communistic type franchise here, just a playable game where I didn't have to pull my eyeballs out every update, while waiting for updates, or while even trying to just play with friends.
Isn't this a bit contradictory? You don't like updating and you don't like waiting for updates? Shouldn't these be mutually exclusive? Anyway, you are definitely allowed to feel the game is not playable to you- that is subjective, obviously- and you can, as I said before, feel that what you paid for it wasn't worth it; but you cannot speak for all the people that bought it so you cannot speak to whether it's worth that sum, for some reason.
Sorry I'm not into coding 1,248,250,508 lines of code just to get a stable version of this thing to host 3 friends.
What are you talking about now? I thought you said you weren't a programmer? How come you are having issues with a Minecraft server when so many others aren't? etc.
IT CANT BE THAT HARD!
Yes it can. It's also really hard to fix "problems" when you are ridiculously vague describing them. How should they address the problem that they update too much as well as not enough? Aside from that, you haven't really mentioned a single problem with the game that isn't entirely subjective "it doesn't work for me" with very little supporting information doesn't really count as a feature request.
but what I do have experience with is being a consumer, which is A) Taking my money, profiting, and then improving your product, in a timely manner, and getting me to spend more money, to buy C) your next product.
Uh, not sure that's an accurate description. For example, you bought your computer a year ago. Do you expect the people you bought it from to continuously make sure you have the latest Graphics card and Processor, and the best available motherboard? Of course not. You bought it as is. If you bought and/or played it in Alpha, there is an improvement, too; I've certainly seen it develop extensively since I bought it in the first Beta.
I think- and I don't want this to be misinterpreted, but this is a typical consumerist attitude- "gimme gimme gimme" type thing, and a sense of always being entitled to more; Minecraft was very successful, but none of us really have any right to demand more value than what we paid for out of the game on the basis that other people bought it, or that they made a specific amount. For example, I'd really love the game to be harder, but I only have a "15 dollar" Beta investment in the game. Sure, the game made however many millions, but that doesn't suddenly mean that what I Want is suddenly more important!
I know that, but its not going to be "API implemented, we now do fancy new Shaders, require DirectX10, 512MB ram Graphics Cards and have 256x256 Textures by default". Its going to be "API implemented". This may affect the performance positively or negatively, the general Look of MC wont change in any way (and of Course you will still get Java errors when Mods do Access their Null-Pointers etc.)
When did I say those things should be default?
I think mojang is probably gonna implement an HD texture pack system, as an option or something. Never said they would make it default.
If they're rewriting the client anyways, HD texture packs makes sense. And they could probably get it working better than x256 textures on top of the existing ones.
Perhaps you should look at it less from the standpoint of a consumer, and more from the standpoint of a producer and your questions will answer themselves.
I'd like to point out that while in some points you (And the gent you quoted) are correct, in order to be an "indie developer" you need limited funds and a small team working on a game.
For example, the team that developed Skyrim consisted of ninety (90) people. That is not including the 83 people who voice acted in the game, and Skyrim had a budget of eighty-five million dollars (including marketing). While some of the older Elder Scrolls games could have been defined as Indie, they have far surpassed the "qualifications" of indie games, and thus are no longer useful in any argument.
Edit: In order to be indie, you cannot be have a publisher by definition. The Call of Duty franchise was published by Activision and Aspyr Media, that takes them out of the running as well.
Bethesda is not an indie developer (At least not since Morrowind since Oblivion had an impressive development team) because they are kicked out of the running by their development team size and their budgets.
The Call of Duty franchise is taken out of the running because they had not one, but two publishers. The Elder Scrolls does not fit in this category because they are self developed and published, which is a good choice for Zenimax Media, the company that owns them.
To quote Wikipedia (and pretty much anyone in the industry's definition) of what an indie game is,
While the teams for Elder Scrolls are large, they are still not "large teams" as some game companies (*cough EA cough*) put hundreds of people on a team. Also, it is important to note that Bethesda in-house published their own game, and that is a major part of the definition of being an indie game.
Also, your post above the one I quoted, I agree.
^ Highly doubtful sillyhead.
90 people is a large team. Oblivion (Not including the DLC/expansion) had a much larger team than Skyrim. Skyrim at end-production had over 100 people on their team.
Yes, Bethseda is self publishing. But as the wiki (You too quoted) states, in order to be an indie developer, you need a small team (Morrowind had roughly 34 and one stuffed animal on their production team. CoD, for example, had less than that but they are published by Activision.)
TES franchise cannot be considered Indie. Not since Morrowind's small Dev team (I could not find any budget quotes). Skyrim's mindblowing budget is enough to knock it out of the park, out of the country and into orbit when it comes to defining what is or is not indie.
Edit: After some half-ass looking, I cannot find solid numbers for EA development teams. The Mass Effect games are unsuitable for this as they were developed by Bioware. EA has (thankfully) allowed BioWare to remain their own entity, they are simply owned by a completely different company. It seems that most of EA's games are "subcontracted out" to smaller development teams, so one could argue that EA does not put "hundreds of people" on a team. For example, Medal of Honor: Warfighter was developed by a team called Danger Close Games -- not EA. EA tends to be more a parent company and a "household name" as opposed to a developer.
They're rebuilding the client from the ground up, so yeah I think they did say they're making a new engine.
I'll try to get the link or something. It's in a locked thread somewhere, they're remaking the client for the mod API.
Anyways, I have nothing to say to this thread. What would Minecraft 2 be? Circles? I think I want Scrolls more.
No, it would be dodecahedrons.
If you are a Swedish citizen, that information is publically available, I believe. Not sure if it's available if you aren't a Swedish citizen. I imagine the money is being used to continue running the company. They aren't cheap, and there are things like taxes, leases, payroll, etc. Another consideration is that the implication here is essentially that they should be using the money to fix bugs by hiring more developers.... They already did that, though. And a team that is too big works far less effectively, especially on a game as comparatively small as Minecraft. Even as they have it now, they've sort of modularized development, Grum is working on the new renderer, for example, while Dinnerbone is trying to prepare the 1.4 codebase for an API, as well as fix bugs on the tracker. I imagine it's much the same story for Jens. They both will implement quick features to the game as well; Many people think "OMG They added Item frames but I still have this giant bug!"... this is an epic misunderstanding of time management.
This makes no sense. At all. for several reasons: First, there isn't an established "engine" that would have worked reasonably for Minecraft. Second, Java is not an engine. Third, Minecraft already has it's own engine. It even supports MD3 models, though I don't imagine that has been used recently (might have even been removed)
Wow. Talk about misconceptions. Every single update can't make it an entirely new game for you. It's also worth noting that those are only the changes you can see. (And an incomplete list at that) 1.2.1 also added a number of other features, bugfixes, as well as the beginnings of some refactoring in the game in the first efforts to move towards a Mod API.
My computer was 1000$ and I built it four years ago and it runs Minecraft fine. I do have problems with heavy mod packs, but then the problem isn't with Minecraft itself.
64x64 texture packs currently require third party hacks. The results of those hacks is that internally the game mostly thinks that textures are 16x16, but the hacks patch on higher-res textures on top of that. In some cases this can cause duplicate code; I don't know about know but some earlier versions of MCPatcher (when I used it last) patched some higher resolution texture support on top of the existing 16x16 code, meaning that it basically sent two complete faces; Z-fighting (when you have faced in the same location, they get that weird effect, just look at the bottom of the beacon for an example) was solved by moving the higher resolution texture out by a teensy bit. Thing is though that those points and polies are still being processed at the GPU level, and this practically doubles the polygon load. It can also affect texture caching both at the GPU level as well as for the game; the GPU has two complete sets of textures, a 16x16 one that Minecraft knows about, and a higher resolution one thrown on top of it by the patcher. The game only knows about the 16x16 version, and the patches essentially change a few calls into LWJGL so that LWJGL uses the higher res textures. This can affect texture caching too. They are working on adding built-in support in the upcoming version for higher resolution texture packs, so your performance problems should be lessened when they do.
Even given the above, my PC doesn't have problems with 128x128 textures and that unbelievable shaders (last done with 1.2.5). I usually got a pretty solid 100fps, though sometimes water would cause FPS drops down to around 40 for large sections of water.
You don't have to update. If the issues and bugs that the released version fixes don't affect you, then why did you update? That's pretty silly logic. The update is no longer forced on you since the updated launcher released alongside Beta 1.1 (around there), so it's pretty easy to simply say not now. You can also back up the jar file, update, and then replace the jar with the old version, and you won't get bothered about updates until another version is released.
Speak for yourself. "everyone" doesn't play this for SMP, and attempting to make any point by making such obviously specious arguments almost makes your points moot.
Yes, it is that hard. A Server browser architecture typically relies on a master server; when you start a server, it "phones home" to that server, and says "HAI! I'm a server, here's my MOTD, my player limit, and my address! Tell the peeps that visit! k thx" and the master server list makes a note of that. When you open the Server Browser, it doesn't magically find current Servers, instead it asks the master server "hai can you send me a list of servers plz k thx" and the server sends it the list. And players connect to it. A simple implementation might just fill up your multiplayer list with Servers.
But it's not really that simple. the entire thing needs it's own protocol; Servers need to be able to tell the master server when something about them changes- say their player list, or their name, or whatever; and the server needs a way to push those changes. And even if we ignore the second part and just have the client multiplayer list (in each person's game) ask for the server list, it's going to need each server to have a unique ID, so it can see when a server it knows about has it's name changed. It's either that, or it goes through every single one in the list and adds it, and I can't imagine that being particularly performant. (most existing server browsers in other games use a "push" architecture where the master server pushes changes to listening clients). But then how do we make the ID? Servers could have their own ID defined in the properties, but then you can DDOS other servers by impersonating their ID. the master server could assign IDs, but who keeps track of the IDs? the Server, the master server, or the client? etc. It's quite difficult.
A list like this would require much of the architecture I described above; including some weird review thing that is completely outside the scope of the server browser anyway. For example would you need to refresh the list manually? If so, how do you keep it performant? Does the master server send this information to the client, or does it just send the addresses and let the client query the server itself? And if the master server keeps it, how often does it refresh it from each server? If the server pushes list information changes to the client, how are unique servers identified, and who generates the unique key, and what happens if a server is able to impersonate another server's key, does it take precedence, and DDOS that other server, and how do you mitigate that possibility?
Yes, it really is that hard. You are like the person who looks at a building and goes "bah how hard is it to build a skyscraper, you just put some iron bars and wood and stack it high", while oblivious to the engineering that actually takes place.
You're complaints are reasonable to the ignorant... (And I don't use that word insultingly, you yourself have said that you are ignorant of these concerns by virtue of not being a programmer or really understanding how the industry works).
I paid $15 dollars and I'm happy with the product I've had for the last 2 years for that price. I really don't care how much they've made in total; that's other people's money, not mine. They are certainly free to think that the product is not work the money they paid for it, but they cannot make a call to class action without some sort of consent by the others. that 500 million dollars (or whatever it really is) is not mine. It's not yours, and it's certainly not something you can bring up when you are unhappy with the game. The only monetary investment an individual made to the game is somewhere around 15-30 dollars, depending on when they bought it. The actual revenue they made from the game is completely redundant to a person's satisfaction with the product.
Isn't this a bit contradictory? You don't like updating and you don't like waiting for updates? Shouldn't these be mutually exclusive? Anyway, you are definitely allowed to feel the game is not playable to you- that is subjective, obviously- and you can, as I said before, feel that what you paid for it wasn't worth it; but you cannot speak for all the people that bought it so you cannot speak to whether it's worth that sum, for some reason.
What are you talking about now? I thought you said you weren't a programmer? How come you are having issues with a Minecraft server when so many others aren't? etc.
Yes it can. It's also really hard to fix "problems" when you are ridiculously vague describing them. How should they address the problem that they update too much as well as not enough? Aside from that, you haven't really mentioned a single problem with the game that isn't entirely subjective "it doesn't work for me" with very little supporting information doesn't really count as a feature request.
Uh, not sure that's an accurate description. For example, you bought your computer a year ago. Do you expect the people you bought it from to continuously make sure you have the latest Graphics card and Processor, and the best available motherboard? Of course not. You bought it as is. If you bought and/or played it in Alpha, there is an improvement, too; I've certainly seen it develop extensively since I bought it in the first Beta.
I think- and I don't want this to be misinterpreted, but this is a typical consumerist attitude- "gimme gimme gimme" type thing, and a sense of always being entitled to more; Minecraft was very successful, but none of us really have any right to demand more value than what we paid for out of the game on the basis that other people bought it, or that they made a specific amount. For example, I'd really love the game to be harder, but I only have a "15 dollar" Beta investment in the game. Sure, the game made however many millions, but that doesn't suddenly mean that what I Want is suddenly more important!
This does not apply to some arguments BTW. I've seen people try using it at several topics but the people have been countering it properly.
Keep on derpin'
When did I say those things should be default?
I think mojang is probably gonna implement an HD texture pack system, as an option or something. Never said they would make it default.
If they're rewriting the client anyways, HD texture packs makes sense. And they could probably get it working better than x256 textures on top of the existing ones.
*OP never returns as they now feel stupid*