I always see people badmouthing Notch, saying he takes too many vacations, and I wasn't really sure why, so I decided to take a look. I went through each and every post on Notch's tumblr and I marked down each and every post about Minecraft updates, and every post which talked about vacation days, and made notes along the way.
After doing this, I can now understand why people are getting upset about lack of updates. Notch made the vast majority of his money over the summer of 2010, which is when he was frequently updating the game, almost a vast improvement to gameplay every week. That quickly changed after he got praised by PCgamer and Penny-Arcade. This is around the time that I received Minecraft as a gift. However, directly after the huge surge of purchases, Minecraft development ground to a halt. The only time I even consider playing the game is when an innovative new mod comes out. Runecraft was a lot of fun to play with friends, and when I think of the time I enjoyed the game the most, it was when we were building a Chrono Trigger in Runecraft.
Almost all of the Minecraft "updates" since Halloween have just been bug fixes, which are almost immediately undone during the next update, as each new update breaks the game a little bit more. However, ever since Jens (is that his name? Or is it Jakob?) took over main development of Minecraft, it has gotten a bit better.
I'm sure this is going to be locked and written off as a troll thread, but just look at my image. I didn't make any of that up, that's all directly from his Tumblr. I'm sure that I'd find more if I looked over his twitter, but it's really not worth the time.
So, here we are. Let's have an actual discussion about the development of Minecraft without pointing fingers and screaming "troll" because our opinion differs, as mine is based on fact.
What do you get more enjoyment out of, vanilla Minecraft or modded Minecraft?
I haven't played vanilla minecraft after my first mod install.
I take the fact that you can mod minecraft, and that entire sections of this forum are devoted to that, that modding is an approved mode of play. Stuff like Wildgrass making the grasslands look better, Longerlegs that keep me from having to hop-hop-hop everywhere that isn't flat, and higher-resolution texture packs make the game nice for me.
16x16 vanilla minecraft would be very depressing to me after playing a nicer looking version. Not being able to stack food (while being able to stack 64 stones.) Stuff like that. I'm totally spoiled on mods, much like Morrowind Oblivion would be pretty dull without innumerable mods to improve the sky, landscape, foliage, villages...
(Note, answering the final question of the OP in bold. I have no arguments against the game by Notch which is the foundation upon which people have been inspired to do all this modding.)
Minecraft is a fun game, and I am happy with the state it is in. Minecraft is not dying. A few million people don't think so. Anyway, he worked hard in the first two years, so we expected loads from him. I am sorry to be harsh, but please do not be greedy. The game is fine as it is.
Notch is a hard worker, but he really doesn't try anymore. That's the issue that a lot of us have.
Look at any of his 24-48 java game contests. He usually puts out something entertaining and does it within a small time limit. He's just not putting the effort needed into the game that got him where he is, and he's getting ready to say the game is "completed" in 2011.
It's not fine "as is", because it's not what was promised to the community when we paid good money for it. We had to work for the money that we exchanged to him for a product, and he's not delivering. That's how the economy works. However, not only are we not getting our product, but it seems to me that we're going to eventually receive a product inferior to the one we were promised.
When Notch is done with Minecraft, then what? In one of his early blogs, he confirmed at least one expansion pack, the "Dungeons and Levers" expansion, which is to be given out for free to anyone who bought the game in Alpha.
Will we ever get this? What about any expansions after that? One of the big incentives to buy the game was not only to help a poor indie dev eat and live while making his game, but so the buyer will get bonus content for free as a result of this show of good faith.
I like bug fixes, it fixes bugs.
Notch now has his own company, so he can afford to go on vacation sometimes, there are other coders for minecraft now like Jeb, who works on the wolves.
Quit whining and play minecraft without hax or mods, you'll like it.
Like I said in my original post, Jeb is doing a great job. He stays late to make sure that his updates are ready on time. From reading the blogs of all the new Minecraft devs, it really seems like all Notch does anymore is slow other people down.
Another huge issue that I have is that I really like the basis that their new game, Scrolls, is made on. I love the Culdcept games, which Scrolls was obviously strongly influenced by. It seems like a game I would love to play. However, with Mojangs current reputation and work ethic, I can't allow myself to help fund this game until I know that it's completed, as I currently take any promises made about Minecraft with a grain of salt.
Mojang is building a horrible reputation for themselves in the last few months, and this is the sort of thing that will follow the devs when they're trying to apply for other jobs in the future.
I think you meant to put "Why I'm losing interest in Minecraft" in your title instead of "[...]why Minecraft is dying".
I'm still interested in it. It's not dying. You're just losing interest. It happens with some people for games; not much you can do.
Moving on to another game would be my suggestion. I'm sorry that Minecraft can't be exactly the game you want it to be.
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Beta is for bugfixes, not weekly uber awesome mega crazy awesome content updates.
What would you rather have? The rare but really good bug fix/content update, or weekly, quickly made additions?
I prefer bug fixes. There is enough content as it is. If you are getting bored with it, play multiplayer. Loads better than single player. There is also a large wolf update coming out. It needs work, and will be released when finished.
There's your added content. Beta is for bug fixes. It isn't a finished game. If you want bugs fixed so badly, how about you report the bugs on notches twitter, or on get-satisfaction?
I'm sorry that Minecraft can't be exactly the game you want it to be.
The game I want Minecraft to be is the game that Notch baited us with. What we were told and shown when the price tag appeared. I don't want anything more than I was promised when I received the game, and he received the money, and I refuse to take any less.
Maybe I just don't understand your position on the subject.
Beta is for bugfixes, not weekly uber awesome mega crazy awesome content updates.
By that logic, a game is only completed when the building blocks to the game itself is debugged. That's not true. Fixing bugs happens throughout the entire gamemaking process, there isn't a single step that is solely devoted to it.
Beta is a time for new features and all that comes with implementing said features. This was something that Notch had no problem doing in the Alpha, why has this changed now that the game is in "beta"?
Notch is a really hard worker, but he simply doesn't have the time !
You know running a company takes time right?
Minecraft will probably never stop getting updated, but even when he stops right now and says minecraft is finished, then I don't even care! Approximatly a million people like the game as it is at it's current state. For them and for me minecraft will never be inferior than the product he promised us.
I think notch changed the name of dungeons and levers to adventure, and it were just possible game modes!
It prob will be in an expansion and alpha users got promised the didn't ever have to pay for minecraft any more!
Beta users will maybe,maybe have to pay.
What is your minecraft username btw?
No, Dungeons and Levers was marketed to his potential buyers as an expansion, and he hasn't mentioned it since he first announced it. Here, I'll quote it and link it for you:
+ Dungeon Mode. Like Survival, except you can’t destroy walls or craft items.
+ Programmable Tiles. Pressure plates, levers, doors.
+ More mobs.
+ More usable items. (Potions? Teleporter stones? Keys?)
+ Official public level file format
+ Play on either player generated levels or randomly generated levels
+ 100% free for anyone who has bought the game!
[edit]
These are things that I expect in the future, but they haven't been mentioned for over a year and a half.
I'm not posting using my actual Minecraft ingame account name as I'd rather not face persecution or a deactivated account for expressing my concern in a company that I have invested money into.
I'm just going to quit answering to a guy, who probably pirated the game and then whines about it.
You're free to do anything you want. I own an actual account, and I convinced a bunch of my friends to buy it last summer based off of what we were told the game was going to be made into.
Edit: Even if someone did pirate a game, how does that make any issue they have with the game any less valid? Problems don't go away when you throw money at it.
I'm just going to quit answering to a guy, who probably pirated the game and then whines about it.
People like you are the reason haspaid needs to be deleted.
He doesnt want to show his minecraft-username, wahhh, wahhh, he is dumb! His arguments are dumb! wahh, wahh!
reported for trying to derail.
On topic, I didnt see the picture before, and Im not surprised.
I agree with Jeb making it a bit better, but still, if he would hire more actually working people, minecraft could advance so well.
Notch just has a problem: he doesnt really want to work on minecraft, people love it, he doesnt want to waste his money on a team.
On topic, I didnt see the picture before, and Im not surprised.
I agree with Jeb making it a bit better, but still, if he would hire more actually working people, minecraft could advance so well.
Notch just has a problem: he doesnt really want to work on minecraft, people love it, he doesnt want to waste his money on a team.
I should have drawn more attention to the image, I just didn't want to embed it as it's way too big to do so without messing up the layout of the forum.
If Notch doesn't want to work on Minecraft anymore, he really has two options open to him:
1. Refund money to those who demand it, as he did not fulfill his part of our monetary transaction
2. Pay people to finish the game for him.
He's currently doing the latter, but if he really sees hiring people to make a game that people already paid for as a "waste of money," then he really shouldn't be in this industry, should he?
On topic, I didnt see the picture before, and Im not surprised.
I agree with Jeb making it a bit better, but still, if he would hire more actually working people, minecraft could advance so well.
Notch just has a problem: he doesnt really want to work on minecraft, people love it, he doesnt want to waste his money on a team.
I should have drawn more attention to the image, I just didn't want to embed it as it's way too big to do so without messing up the layout of the forum.
If Notch doesn't want to work on Minecraft anymore, he really has two options open to him:
1. Refund money to those who demand it, as he did not fulfill his part of our monetary transaction
2. Pay people to finish the game for him.
He's currently doing the latter, but if he really sees hiring people to make a game that people already paid for as a "waste of money," then he really shouldn't be in this industry, should he?
'didnt see the picture before' as in 'this is the first time i see it'
Actually, he could just call it finished and abandon it, thats what many people are afraid of.
However, I dont think he can live forever off all that money, and if he really does that (abandon it) he will never, ever get a goodselling game again.
I hope he does the latter, because he shouldnt 'keep it small', because that just hinders the developement.
And yes, Notch doesnt have any business-strategy, above is the mainreason.
Quote from metallic »
All i'm trying to do is defend Notch a little.
If you don't like the game, or believe you're being scammed then stop playing it.
if you dont know what the discussion is about, dont come in just to defend notch. He is a bad businessman, thats what the discussion is about, not someone being scammed or not liking the game.
All i'm trying to do is defend Notch a little.
If you don't like the game, or believe you're being scammed then stop playing it.
That wouldn't get me my money back, would it?
Defend someone who deserves it, don't waste time and effort trying to coddle someone who really doesn't care that you're doing so. Has anything that I've said so far been a lie? I went through Notch's entire tumblr today, so I've got a pretty good understanding of the situation going.
'didnt see the picture before' as in 'this is the first time i see it'
That's because I made it today!
Ah!
Well, if you are afraid about being scammed, ie notch saying 'game finished, no more updates, abandoned', hes not going to do that, because how I said, he would have no money in some time then.
However, at the same time he doesnt want to waste time and money on minecraft anymore, so he doesnt want a big team.
this leads to the conclusion, that Minecraft will be updated very slowly (like now) to keep the money streaming in, without having to spend too much money on updating it.
I like bug fixes, it fixes bugs.
Notch now has his own company, so he can afford to go on vacation sometimes, there are other coders for minecraft now like Jeb, who works on the wolves.
Quit whining and play minecraft without hax or mods, you'll like it.
Yeah. Don't use GIMP or MineEdit. GIMP finds you diamonds and MineEdit is an inventory hack.
Ah!
Well, if you are afraid about being scammed, ie notch saying 'game finished, no more updates, abandoned', hes not going to do that, because how I said, he would have no money in some time then.
However, at the same time he doesnt want to waste time and money on minecraft anymore, so he doesnt want a big team.
this leads to the conclusion, that Minecraft will be updated very slowly (like now) to keep the money streaming in, without having to spend too much money on updating it.
My big issue with this is that it is going to affect their future products. Going back to Scrolls, it's something I am very interested in, but I have absolutely no reason to buy it now that I've seen how Mojang treats their past products and past customers.
If you buy something ,but it isn't what you expected, then you shouldn't have bought it.
When i buy cookies, but don't like them, then i don't ask my money back do I ?
If you order a cake for your wedding and the baker promises that it'll look and taste in a certain way, but then he just shows up to your wedding mid-ceremony with a bowl of batter, then yes, I would refuse to pay.
I paid for one product, and I am worried that I am not going to receive it, or receive something far inferior to what was promised when I made my monetary transaction.
If Minecraft was a completed game when I bought it, then yes, shame on me. However, I got the game at a time when it was pre-beta, and still had a lot of work to be done. We were all shown the blueprints to something we were interested in buying, but the contractor no longer wants to make it, but he still wants to keep our money.
I'm linking to this rather than embedding it as the image is incredibly large.
I always see people badmouthing Notch, saying he takes too many vacations, and I wasn't really sure why, so I decided to take a look. I went through each and every post on Notch's tumblr and I marked down each and every post about Minecraft updates, and every post which talked about vacation days, and made notes along the way.
After doing this, I can now understand why people are getting upset about lack of updates. Notch made the vast majority of his money over the summer of 2010, which is when he was frequently updating the game, almost a vast improvement to gameplay every week. That quickly changed after he got praised by PCgamer and Penny-Arcade. This is around the time that I received Minecraft as a gift. However, directly after the huge surge of purchases, Minecraft development ground to a halt. The only time I even consider playing the game is when an innovative new mod comes out. Runecraft was a lot of fun to play with friends, and when I think of the time I enjoyed the game the most, it was when we were building a Chrono Trigger in Runecraft.
Almost all of the Minecraft "updates" since Halloween have just been bug fixes, which are almost immediately undone during the next update, as each new update breaks the game a little bit more. However, ever since Jens (is that his name? Or is it Jakob?) took over main development of Minecraft, it has gotten a bit better.
I'm sure this is going to be locked and written off as a troll thread, but just look at my image. I didn't make any of that up, that's all directly from his Tumblr. I'm sure that I'd find more if I looked over his twitter, but it's really not worth the time.
So, here we are. Let's have an actual discussion about the development of Minecraft without pointing fingers and screaming "troll" because our opinion differs, as mine is based on fact.
What do you get more enjoyment out of, vanilla Minecraft or modded Minecraft?
I take the fact that you can mod minecraft, and that entire sections of this forum are devoted to that, that modding is an approved mode of play. Stuff like Wildgrass making the grasslands look better, Longerlegs that keep me from having to hop-hop-hop everywhere that isn't flat, and higher-resolution texture packs make the game nice for me.
16x16 vanilla minecraft would be very depressing to me after playing a nicer looking version. Not being able to stack food (while being able to stack 64 stones.) Stuff like that. I'm totally spoiled on mods, much like Morrowind Oblivion would be pretty dull without innumerable mods to improve the sky, landscape, foliage, villages...
(Note, answering the final question of the OP in bold. I have no arguments against the game by Notch which is the foundation upon which people have been inspired to do all this modding.)
Demographics: Age poll!
Nether poll!
Tamed wolf health as indicated by tail position
Gravity?
Herobrine is Real. #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement
Notch is a hard worker, but he really doesn't try anymore. That's the issue that a lot of us have.
Look at any of his 24-48 java game contests. He usually puts out something entertaining and does it within a small time limit. He's just not putting the effort needed into the game that got him where he is, and he's getting ready to say the game is "completed" in 2011.
It's not fine "as is", because it's not what was promised to the community when we paid good money for it. We had to work for the money that we exchanged to him for a product, and he's not delivering. That's how the economy works. However, not only are we not getting our product, but it seems to me that we're going to eventually receive a product inferior to the one we were promised.
When Notch is done with Minecraft, then what? In one of his early blogs, he confirmed at least one expansion pack, the "Dungeons and Levers" expansion, which is to be given out for free to anyone who bought the game in Alpha.
Will we ever get this? What about any expansions after that? One of the big incentives to buy the game was not only to help a poor indie dev eat and live while making his game, but so the buyer will get bonus content for free as a result of this show of good faith.
I'm worried that Notch won't follow through.
Like I said in my original post, Jeb is doing a great job. He stays late to make sure that his updates are ready on time. From reading the blogs of all the new Minecraft devs, it really seems like all Notch does anymore is slow other people down.
Another huge issue that I have is that I really like the basis that their new game, Scrolls, is made on. I love the Culdcept games, which Scrolls was obviously strongly influenced by. It seems like a game I would love to play. However, with Mojangs current reputation and work ethic, I can't allow myself to help fund this game until I know that it's completed, as I currently take any promises made about Minecraft with a grain of salt.
Mojang is building a horrible reputation for themselves in the last few months, and this is the sort of thing that will follow the devs when they're trying to apply for other jobs in the future.
I'm still interested in it. It's not dying. You're just losing interest. It happens with some people for games; not much you can do.
Moving on to another game would be my suggestion. I'm sorry that Minecraft can't be exactly the game you want it to be.
BETA!
Beta is for bugfixes, not weekly uber awesome mega crazy awesome content updates.
What would you rather have? The rare but really good bug fix/content update, or weekly, quickly made additions?
I prefer bug fixes. There is enough content as it is. If you are getting bored with it, play multiplayer. Loads better than single player. There is also a large wolf update coming out. It needs work, and will be released when finished.
There's your added content. Beta is for bug fixes. It isn't a finished game. If you want bugs fixed so badly, how about you report the bugs on notches twitter, or on get-satisfaction?
The game I want Minecraft to be is the game that Notch baited us with. What we were told and shown when the price tag appeared. I don't want anything more than I was promised when I received the game, and he received the money, and I refuse to take any less.
Maybe I just don't understand your position on the subject.
By that logic, a game is only completed when the building blocks to the game itself is debugged. That's not true. Fixing bugs happens throughout the entire gamemaking process, there isn't a single step that is solely devoted to it.
Beta is a time for new features and all that comes with implementing said features. This was something that Notch had no problem doing in the Alpha, why has this changed now that the game is in "beta"?
No, Dungeons and Levers was marketed to his potential buyers as an expansion, and he hasn't mentioned it since he first announced it. Here, I'll quote it and link it for you:
These are things that I expect in the future, but they haven't been mentioned for over a year and a half.
I'm not posting using my actual Minecraft ingame account name as I'd rather not face persecution or a deactivated account for expressing my concern in a company that I have invested money into.
You're free to do anything you want. I own an actual account, and I convinced a bunch of my friends to buy it last summer based off of what we were told the game was going to be made into.
Edit: Even if someone did pirate a game, how does that make any issue they have with the game any less valid? Problems don't go away when you throw money at it.
People like you are the reason haspaid needs to be deleted.
He doesnt want to show his minecraft-username, wahhh, wahhh, he is dumb! His arguments are dumb! wahh, wahh!
reported for trying to derail.
On topic, I didnt see the picture before, and Im not surprised.
I agree with Jeb making it a bit better, but still, if he would hire more actually working people, minecraft could advance so well.
Notch just has a problem: he doesnt really want to work on minecraft, people love it, he doesnt want to waste his money on a team.
I should have drawn more attention to the image, I just didn't want to embed it as it's way too big to do so without messing up the layout of the forum.
If Notch doesn't want to work on Minecraft anymore, he really has two options open to him:
1. Refund money to those who demand it, as he did not fulfill his part of our monetary transaction
2. Pay people to finish the game for him.
He's currently doing the latter, but if he really sees hiring people to make a game that people already paid for as a "waste of money," then he really shouldn't be in this industry, should he?
'didnt see the picture before' as in 'this is the first time i see it'
Actually, he could just call it finished and abandon it, thats what many people are afraid of.
However, I dont think he can live forever off all that money, and if he really does that (abandon it) he will never, ever get a goodselling game again.
I hope he does the latter, because he shouldnt 'keep it small', because that just hinders the developement.
And yes, Notch doesnt have any business-strategy, above is the mainreason.
if you dont know what the discussion is about, dont come in just to defend notch. He is a bad businessman, thats what the discussion is about, not someone being scammed or not liking the game.
That wouldn't get me my money back, would it?
Defend someone who deserves it, don't waste time and effort trying to coddle someone who really doesn't care that you're doing so. Has anything that I've said so far been a lie? I went through Notch's entire tumblr today, so I've got a pretty good understanding of the situation going.
That's because I made it today!
Ah!
Well, if you are afraid about being scammed, ie notch saying 'game finished, no more updates, abandoned', hes not going to do that, because how I said, he would have no money in some time then.
However, at the same time he doesnt want to waste time and money on minecraft anymore, so he doesnt want a big team.
this leads to the conclusion, that Minecraft will be updated very slowly (like now) to keep the money streaming in, without having to spend too much money on updating it.
Yeah. Don't use GIMP or MineEdit. GIMP finds you diamonds and MineEdit is an inventory hack.
it out.
My big issue with this is that it is going to affect their future products. Going back to Scrolls, it's something I am very interested in, but I have absolutely no reason to buy it now that I've seen how Mojang treats their past products and past customers.
All right everyone, if we don't buy Lamborghinis for one day, the price will go way down and then we can all afford one. It's Economics!
If you order a cake for your wedding and the baker promises that it'll look and taste in a certain way, but then he just shows up to your wedding mid-ceremony with a bowl of batter, then yes, I would refuse to pay.
I paid for one product, and I am worried that I am not going to receive it, or receive something far inferior to what was promised when I made my monetary transaction.
If Minecraft was a completed game when I bought it, then yes, shame on me. However, I got the game at a time when it was pre-beta, and still had a lot of work to be done. We were all shown the blueprints to something we were interested in buying, but the contractor no longer wants to make it, but he still wants to keep our money.