[14w11b / 1.7.10 / 1.7.2 / 1.6.4 and earlier][update 6/27] MCPatcher HD fix 4.3.2_03

  • #8619
    Quote from Kahr
    - massive snip -
    * sigh * I knew it would come to this. I knew the egotists that run the Forge camp would eventually force this. I was hoping like heck that I was wrong... but... well... frig.

    I'm really sorry. This is going to force a bad position with a lot of packs: have excellent graphics or support forge mods. Can't have both at the same time. :(

    Kahr... the only thing I can say is "stick to your guns". Do what you do, and don't lower yourself just to accommodate someone's bogus vision.

    If it's their way or the highway... I'll grab my pack and follow you down the road. That's my opinion on the subject. I know others will disagree, and disagree hard.

    This is depressing, you know. I cheered for Forge because they wanted to unify modders and make an open standard that everyone could use... and now all they've done is drive a wedge into the modding community. First with BTW, then with Modloader... and now this. Crap man... where did it all go so horribly wrong? :(

    Sorry... I'm venting. I'm depressed, and a little angry, and I'm venting. Sorry everyone. :(

    But yea... stick to doing what you do Kahr. Be part of the resistance. Even if nobody follows... stand proud that you're not just a sheep that follows the leader. :)
  • #8620
    ASSIMILATE INTO THE FORGE...

    RESISTANCE IS... ESSENTIAL..

    Speaking as a guy who's become increasingly fed up with the guys, I'm applauding you for standing to your values. They're basically the main reason I have given up on modding for this game due to their technique of grouping everybody together into their ideal view of the modding community...

    Which is the forge being the sole overlord of the modding community, being the dictators of what does and doesn't go.

    What? They're not working for the benefit of the modders anymore? Oh noooo...
    Last edited by Alto_Clef: 7/11/2013 10:38:58 PM
  • #8621
    Quote from Kahr

    Regarding forge support...


    I'm really happy you're taking this stance. It will help others understand why the Forge team is heading down a bad path and maybe help them get back on the good road.
  • #8622
    Mc Patcher doesn't work for Minecraft 1.6.2. I Downloaded the new McPatcher (4.1.0_04)
    I patch and get this error as i launch the game

    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // Don't do that.
    Time: 13-07-11 23:31
    Description: Initializing game
    java.lang.NullPointerException
    at bka.b(SourceFile:76)
    at ats.O(SourceFile:332)
    at ats.d(SourceFile:599)
    at net.minecraft.client.main.Main.main(SourceFile:101)
    
    A detailed walkthrough of the error, its code path and all known details is as follows:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- Head --
    Stacktrace:
    at bka.b(SourceFile:76)
    at ats.O(SourceFile:332)
    -- Initialization --
    Details:
    Stacktrace:
    at ats.d(SourceFile:599)
    at net.minecraft.client.main.Main.main(SourceFile:101)
    -- System Details --
    Details:
    Minecraft Version: 1.6.2
    Operating System: Windows XP (x86) version 5.1
    Java Version: 1.7.0_25, Oracle Corporation
    Java VM Version: Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (mixed mode), Oracle Corporation
    Memory: 45161552 bytes (43 MB) / 141885440 bytes (135 MB) up to 1037959168 bytes (989 MB)
    JVM Flags: 1 total; -Xmx1G
    AABB Pool Size: 0 (0 bytes; 0 MB) allocated, 0 (0 bytes; 0 MB) used
    Suspicious classes: ~~ERROR~~ NoClassDefFoundError: com/prupe/mcpatcher/cit/EnchantmentList$1
    IntCache: cache: 0, tcache: 0, allocated: 0, tallocated: 0
    Launched Version: 1.6.2-mcpatcher
    LWJGL: 2.9.0
    OpenGL: GeForce GT 430/PCIe/SSE2 GL version 4.3.0, NVIDIA Corporation
    Is Modded: Very likely; Jar signature invalidated
    Type: Client (map_client.txt)
    Resource Pack: Misa.zip
    Current Language: ~~ERROR~~ NullPointerException: null
    Profiler Position: N/A (disabled)
    Vec3 Pool Size: ~~ERROR~~ NullPointerException: null


    I need Mcpatcher for Connected Textures... My game is based on the connected textures of the Crafting Table and Chiseled Bricks.
    Mojang you're wearing me out !
  • #8623
    Kahr, you have shown by your actions in the past that you will always go well out of your way to assist your fellow mod authors in as selfless a manner as I have ever seen. Your stand on this issue is an inspiration and I thank you for going public with it. No matter how heavy the storm gets, you are not alone.
    Last edited by DaveYanakov: 7/11/2013 10:37:53 PM
  • #8624
    Hey Kahr. I just wanted to say that I know you might get a lot of backlash for the stance your're taking but I want you to know that there are many people who support your decision including me.
  • #8625
    Quote from Kahr

    -snip-

    It's a shame I can't +1 this more times. It's about time more people realize that forge isn't the beautiful godsend of minecraft modding it's cracked up to be
  • #8626
    Alright, I was just wondering if there was a way. I totally understand your point of view on the matter (most of which is indeed made up of fact instead of pretty words, unlike a lot of people I would see online who are just too lazy to do something and would rather hide it). Thank y very much for educating me on the matter. Keep up the good work.
  • #8627
    Quote from Kahr

    ~snip~


    Well put Kahr. Stick to your guns. The "our way or the highway" attitude is uncalled for.

    *Applause*
    Last edited by Mason11987: 7/11/2013 11:31:00 PM
  • #8628
    Just another quick +1 for your stance on the Forge thing. It's really ing me off that I may soon have to choose between using the Forge mods I like and using my favorite texture packs for no other reason than that cpw and Lex decided it should be so. And, frankly, I am tired of the drama that Forge seems to create - I don't know that I've ever seen anything like it in any other game community. So much baggage, and it just never seems to stop piling up.

    Anyways, I hope to god Mojang stops with the junk content and gets moving on a real API already. Till then, as I said.. +1!
  • #8629
    Quote from Kahr

    Regarding forge support. -snip-


    I think I may have broken my mouse trying to spam the +1 button, but in any case, glad to see you taking a strong stance on this Kahr.

    *joins applause*
  • #8630
    Quote from Kahr

    Regarding forge support. For those who are unaware, forge's latest update is essentially an ultimatum to modders: Either be incompatible with us or be incompatible with everything else. As one of MCPatcher's core design principles is to be as compatible as possible, this is completely unacceptable. Making MCPatcher forge-compliant would represent an enormous effort for an inferior result. Among other things it would mean no snapshot support, leaving texture pack artists with no way to work on new features between major Minecraft releases.

    There is no technical reason for this "no jar edits" requirement. With a few hours work I was able to bypass it and get a proof-of-concept MCPatcher+forge modified jar up and running with only minor incompatibilities. The result is essentially the same as the old way of adding a forge zip to MCPatcher and clicking Patch.

    I am led to conclude that this change is more about promoting an ideology than a technology, and recent public behavior by Lex and cpw only confirms that. They repeatedly insist that any modder not doing things their way is "doing it wrong", as if there were only One True Way to create Minecraft mods. The condescension is especially rich considering forge's crude binary diffs method for base class edits is light years behind what MCPatcher has been doing for over two years now.

    So while perhaps I could cobble together something that will work both with and without forge, having to bend over backward to accommodate a group with so little regard for others is extremely frustrating. I would much rather work on new features for artists than constantly jump through forge's ever-changing and utterly unnecessary hoops.


    Wow, a lot of emotion there. Really isn't it just a choice? I use bukkit or forge or base edits and use mcpatcher. None of them work well with each other. Eh, if you don't like one method use another. If we could just channel all that energy towards making cool mods in our chosen flavor, the end users of the mods will make the true choice of the mod method with the best mods as they win by content not contention.
  • #8631
    Disregard... wrong thread. XD
    Last edited by shinji257: 7/12/2013 4:03:13 AM
  • #8632
    Well, the forge makers are on a power trip. But sooner or later they will come down hard, let's just hope that the other modders won't come down with them.
  • #8633
    I'd also like to show my support for you decision regarding the Forge. It was about time someone called the current Forge leaders on their behavior, I just hope other mod developers will feel encouraged by your actions and do the same...
  • #8634
    Full support from me for what it's worth, kahr. I'd have long since found something else to do with my spare time if you hadn't continued to make it possible to expand on Minecraft's awesome aesthetic possibilities. :)

    Integrity, choice and common sense over dictatorial control any day. You've always been helpful to the community and shown great patience and understanding along the way in the face of much frustration. Others seem to enjoy taking the macho 'superior intellect' stance.
    Last edited by Glimmar: 7/12/2013 5:05:49 AM
  • #8635
    Quote from Diedblack

    Mc Patcher doesn't work for Minecraft 1.6.2. I Downloaded the new McPatcher (4.1.0_04)
    I patch and get this error as i launch the game

    ---- Minecraft Crash Report ----
    // Don't do that.
    Time: 13-07-11 23:31
    Description: Initializing game
    java.lang.NullPointerException
    at bka.b(SourceFile:76)
    at ats.O(SourceFile:332)
    at ats.d(SourceFile:599)
    at net.minecraft.client.main.Main.main(SourceFile:101)
    
    A detailed walkthrough of the error, its code path and all known details is as follows:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- Head --
    Stacktrace:
    at bka.b(SourceFile:76)
    at ats.O(SourceFile:332)
    -- Initialization --
    Details:
    Stacktrace:
    at ats.d(SourceFile:599)
    at net.minecraft.client.main.Main.main(SourceFile:101)
    -- System Details --
    Details:
    Minecraft Version: 1.6.2
    Operating System: Windows XP (x86) version 5.1
    Java Version: 1.7.0_25, Oracle Corporation
    Java VM Version: Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (mixed mode), Oracle Corporation
    Memory: 45161552 bytes (43 MB) / 141885440 bytes (135 MB) up to 1037959168 bytes (989 MB)
    JVM Flags: 1 total; -Xmx1G
    AABB Pool Size: 0 (0 bytes; 0 MB) allocated, 0 (0 bytes; 0 MB) used
    Suspicious classes: ~~ERROR~~ NoClassDefFoundError: com/prupe/mcpatcher/cit/EnchantmentList$1
    IntCache: cache: 0, tcache: 0, allocated: 0, tallocated: 0
    Launched Version: 1.6.2-mcpatcher
    LWJGL: 2.9.0
    OpenGL: GeForce GT 430/PCIe/SSE2 GL version 4.3.0, NVIDIA Corporation
    Is Modded: Very likely; Jar signature invalidated
    Type: Client (map_client.txt)
    Resource Pack: Misa.zip
    Current Language: ~~ERROR~~ NullPointerException: null
    Profiler Position: N/A (disabled)
    Vec3 Pool Size: ~~ERROR~~ NullPointerException: null


    I need Mcpatcher for Connected Textures... My game is based on the connected textures of the Crafting Table and Chiseled Bricks.
    Look 2 pages before this & it's been explained.
    Last edited by markacashion: 7/12/2013 7:06:22 AM
    I have made a Guide on how to create Resource Packs & how to create textures!
    It's here: Click here. Hope it helps you!
  • #8636
    Hello Kahr, I'm going to reply this one time to your post, I don't wish to start a flame war or anything else. Forge is not going to change our distribution method, and I don't believe you're going to change yours. That is fine. 100% compatibility is a goal, but it will never be attained.
    You will note a single theme, tweeted by ME frequently, but ignored by the more bombastic members of the modding community. I really hope you are not one of those.

    Please note, from my perspective, your compatibility with forge has been minimal for at least a year- I PMed you here about trying to fix some of your more egregious class modification issues, without a response. The runtime class modifications Forge/FML perform have long had a problem with your pre-launch class modifications, and we decided that trying to work around them was more irritating than it was worth. It was very hard to understand your custom class patching technology as it doesn't seem to be based on any byte code engineering technology I am aware of. ASM, our choice, certainly puked more often than not.

    Quote from Kahr

    Regarding forge support. For those who are unaware, forge's latest update is essentially an ultimatum to modders: Either be incompatible with us or be incompatible with everything else. As one of MCPatcher's core design principles is to be as compatible as possible, this is completely unacceptable. Making MCPatcher forge-compliant would represent an enormous effort for an inferior result. Among other things it would mean no snapshot support, leaving texture pack artists with no way to work on new features between major Minecraft releases.

    I was personally asked by Mojang to stop putting minecraft classes directly in my jar distributables. I complied with their request at the 1.6 release, since it was technically possible to do so at that point. I am sorry if that makes your life more difficult.

    Quote from Kahr

    There is no technical reason for this "no jar edits" requirement. With a few hours work I was able to bypass it and get a proof-of-concept MCPatcher+forge modified jar up and running with only minor incompatibilities. The result is essentially the same as the old way of adding a forge zip to MCPatcher and clicking Patch.

    I agree there is not technical limitation. There is simply Mojang's direct request to me "Don't do that please". The binary diff is crude, because it was simple and rapidly implemented. A more elaborate method-driven ASM technology was and still is in progress, but would result in less useful stack traces, so it's not in a hurry to happen.

    Quote from Kahr

    I am led to conclude that this change is more about promoting an ideology than a technology, and recent public behavior by Lex and cpw only confirms that. They repeatedly insist that any modder not doing things their way is "doing it wrong", as if there were only One True Way to create Minecraft mods. The condescension is especially rich considering forge's crude binary diffs method for base class edits is light years behind what MCPatcher has been doing for over two years now.

    Ideologically, yes, I don't like base edits. The less we have to do the better. However, that has nothing to do with Mojang's direct request "stop shipping minecraft classes".

    Quote from Kahr

    So while perhaps I could cobble together something that will work both with and without forge, having to bend over backward to accommodate a group with so little regard for others is extremely frustrating. I would much rather work on new features for artists than constantly jump through forge's ever-changing and utterly unnecessary hoops.


    That is your choice. As I say, MCpatcher has not been considered a recommended forge tool for applying code to the jar in some time, due to the class mangling you perform being incompatible with our runtime work.
    Last edited by cpw: 7/12/2013 7:14:41 AM
    A cool banner was here, but it has been removed
  • #8639
    Quote from 4poc

    -SNIP-

    Personally, I find taking screenshots and making fun of their histrionics and ignorance to be quite therapeutic. But then, I'm known as a horrible person...

    I don't think Flowerchild and his sycophants are a majority, though.
    Last edited by Blaziken584: 7/12/2013 9:57:11 AM
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together.
  • #8640
    Quote from stardustrider

    I can understand the validity behind some of his issues, such as the development of BWF, but that has nothing to do with the Forge team themselves. Just because they don't publicly come out against it, that doesn't mean they're condoning it.


    Just a note on this, if I recall correctly Lex appeared on the stream were BWF was announced and openly supported it.

    Also there is slight difference between ideas (I'm going to do a medieval tech BTW-like mod) and impementation themselves in therms of gameplay (I'm going to do an exact copy of every block in BTW).

    @Kahr Just keep doing what you are doing, because MCPatcher is one of the most innovative and useful tools for texture artists out there. I don't think you should change the way your tool works to accomodate request of other people, escept if you want it.
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