.Edit: It would be great if I could be a Lich, Hopping bodies and such.
Lich's do not "hop bodies", they are a body that when completely destroyed gets rebuilt at the phylactery by powerful necromantic magic.
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Nightmares torment me. I can no longer resist the call of the infinite. Their blows rain heavy. My wraithbone cracks. My sight in this world dims. I return to slumber. My soulstone, please take it. Save...the others
Azanor, and another good idea:
Could you add combat puppets?
1) Puppeteer can control them from a distance.
2) In this puppets are hidden the different weapons: throwing knives, bombs with poison gas, etc.
After
Like this:
All of this is directly related to mod.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Weapons should be recharged.
In his craft can use iron, wood, and something like Alumentum.
I have been formulating this idea for a while now, I hope that some of it is relevant (I havent been following this thread much recently):
Note that I havent stretched out every idea - just havent got the creativity for that
For every bracketed number (e.g. #1), refer to the corresponding note at the end of the spoiler
You spawn into the world of minecraft as an adept, with no affinity or knowledge about magic and its elements (*reference Azanor's 8 choices here*). As you defeat monsters, you gain your regular minecraft xp, plus a little bit of TC xp. As you gain TC xp, you 'level up', giving you your first point to allocate toward one of the elements. The more points you put toward an element, more research into the spells of that element are now accessible (#1). The spells are tiered (level one being the weakest, tier (4?) is the most advanced) and can be of a pure type (e.g. pure fire), or a compound type (fire and chaos). In order to be able to cast these spells, you need to have completed the necessary research, as well as have the necessary TC points allocated to the particular type(s) that the spell is. In order to improve your competency with the spell, you need to have met some sort of criteria (Allocated X points to the element, killed X many mobs, whatever) in order to unlock the next tier (you have to use another TC point to do so).
Research
In order to research the spells themself, it uses the same method that TC3 uses now, with an additional element. You throw you aspects into the research table in an attempt to learn a new spell, and if you do, you document it on a piece of parchment (so far, exactly how TC3 does it). When you learn the spell, you now have to write it down using ancient methods (#2).
For example,
I wanted to learn the spell "Chaotic Burn", a spell that sets the ground alight in a certain radius. The spell in its weakest tier costs X mana to use (will develop on this later on), has a cooldown time of X seconds, has a radius of x/2 and burns mobs and players at 3/4 the rate normal fire does. As you gain access to the other tiers, they increase in mana cost, cooldown time, damage done, etc.
Mobs:
- Leave the wisp generation exactly the way it currently does, but could you add some sort of random number generation that affects the physical size of them? (as small as they are now, to as large as a huge slime for example)
- Wizards: These mobs have one affinity to an element, and can only be found in a biome that meets that element (fire = nether, water = ocean, etc). Have their own worldgen house that meets the style of the element and the biome. Can drop research and scribing tools (refer to #2 again), and you can find mana potions and other magical wonders inside their house.
Mana:
This one I have found really tricky to develop, but I am referencing Magic: The Gathering a lot here. I am thinking that the player has an internal manapool that is not specific to any element (in MTG terms, 'colourless'), and is used in most of the spells. The player also has additional manapools of the respective elements that they have allocated TC points to. The amount of mana the player has slowly increases with TC levelling, with research and/or items to give them a mana boost in a particular type of mana (e.g. fire potions give the player more mana to use, whilst a staff of fire can store some mana that is taken from the player into the staff). In order to cast a spell, the player must have the mana available to him/her in order to cast it. To reference the sketchy example above, I need 2 'colourless' mana 1 'fire mana' and 1 'chaos mana' available to me in order to cast the spell.
Endgame event??
I havent thought much about an endgame result - something like "once all the spells have been mastered, you unlock the research to be able to summon a mythical creature of epic proportions. Slaying this mystical creature will enable you to absorb its knowledge (or something like that), giving you the ability to do many more things in the world of minecraft!"
Thats all I have for now, Hope this helps
Reference notes:
#1 Think about it as a research tree - you have to research the basics before researching the intermediate and ultimate spells (and their tiers)
#2 Some sort of tiered scribing system - the better the tools used, the more the spell (and spellbook?) lasts before being destroyed due to overuse.
For example: If i scribed some spells onto paper, and that is binded with string, the spells wouldn't last long before the book is destroyed. If I made a book of leather instead, the spells would last much longer as the book is a sturdier one .
I think, that all of you told, you can find in ArsMagica
You're completely missing the point of that statement. The point is that the overpowered thing is there, whether you want it or you don't, if it is included in the mod (which is not modular at this point).
Just because you have to work for it for a long time doesn't mean that it's balanced, healthy for the game, or not overpowered, also.
Edit: I should probably talk about what I'm talking about. I think (and my opinion is not professional and I have no qualifications, but I try to be logical) that Minecraft is unique in that the game has an odd progression of difficulty. It goes down, primarily, save for when entering a new dimension. You get increasingly better weapons and armor while your enemies do not get stronger or smarter. Most games try to level out their difficulty, and some times get harder, but Minecraft does the opposite. The problem with adding things that make you stronger is that this ramps down the difficulty to a level where there's no challenges or worries. This doesn't make for an involving game. Instead you'll find yourself one-shotting everything and getting bored, or getting access to everything and getting bored.
It's not a good idea to turn survival into pseudo-creative, even if it takes a long time to make it that way. At least, that's what I think. I could be wrong, but other people seem to agree with that idea.
I think we really are kinda talking past each other, as I already said I don't want to have something overpowered but strong, disregarding what kind of "strong" and how it is balanced. Also, you're already assuming that "strong" is something to fight, but now imagine that there is a device which totally negates the effect of flux, as long as it is "powered" in some way. That would be a overpowered item since it would negate flux completly and also reset the flux level to 0 (in the current chunk obviously). Now, if we're assuming that you unleashed a flux effect that works like the taint from Thaumcraft 2, spreads faster, and is unbeliveably more deadly. As such, your and every chunk around your place become more than deadly. Suddenly the item is not overpowered anymore, but useful and nessecary for your survival, if you plan on staying in your home that is. As such I probably formulated my first proposal wrongly, I don't want overpowered things but things that would look overpowered from the normal point of view in Minecraft, but are a nessecity and totally not overpowered in Thaumcraft. Think about it of just setting the level you're playing on higher, in pros and cons that is.
Edit: Also, pseudo-creative? Have you ever tried getting an armour with full repair and a wand with charging? That is already pseudo creative if you add boots of the traveller with haste...
No, ProfessorAkayuki, you and mrplaque are not talking past each other; you really *are* missing his point. Two things that I completely and utterly agree with mrplaque on are thus:
1) Overpowered does *not* = too large an amount of personal power for the amount of input required to obtain that power, or, as you stated, "too good for too little." Furthermore, requiring insane amounts of input to acquire that power does *not* = balance.
Overpowered means that there exists a certain amount of obtainable personal power (whether derived from an item, ability, etc.) that (a) does not have a sufficient penalty for use/possession and (B) does not have a sufficient, counter-balancing force (a natural 'counter'). You're right, this does not have to be related to combat.
Example (Overpowered): There exists an item that requires 576 diamonds to craft, but gives you a node of unlimited, instant aura that can never be drained and destroys all taint nearby. That *is* overpowered.
Counter-Example (Not-Overpowered - well, your opinion, I suppose): There exists an item that only requires tier 3 research and creates a node that gives you unlimited, instant aura that can never be drained and destroys all taint nearby. However, - insert some metaphysical explanation here - everything within X blocks of the node is drawn slowly into the center of the node and consumed as taint is destroyed, and, after enough land has been devoured by the node, spawns a mini-star that burns everything within 5X of the original node and no longer functions as an aura node. -insert some way to deconstruct the sun-node so that you can reenter the scorched land.
In the second example, there was not a large barrier to creating the very powerful 'thing.' However, there was certainly a large downside to using it (although some might consider it a plus). The first example might have required a large amount of valuable material, but, there is no downside to creating it. Why are these so different? Easy; given enough time, everyone will have constructed the example A node and taint becomes an irrelevant, useless gameplay mechanic (which entirely murders the fun of thaumcraft). In example B, many people might have the *ability* to create it, but most likely will not, unless they like ruining their worlds (and killing themselves at respawn again and again)
Thus, I restate: you are totally misunderstanding the quality of 'OP-ness.' (pun intended)
2) Once an overpowered item is in the mod; it is there for good, unless it (wisely) gets removed! AND, it doesn't matter if I don't want to play with it or not. If thaumcraft offered a magically-powered shotgun that instantly one-hit other players, even if it required 9 stacks of 64 nether stars, it *does not* matter if I want to *not* use it; MrDickCheney1337 living in the cobblestone hut next door who's been grinding withers for the last 10 years is going to shave my face with magical buckshot.
Besides, if OP items must absolutely be added, then they certainly must not be permanent items. Minecraft does not and *should not* have an (sweet baby Jesus I hate this term with a passion) "end-game."
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"An optimist will tell you that your glass is half-full. A pessimist will tell you that your glass is half-empty. A process engineer will tell you that your glass is twice as large as it should be."
In regards to spellcasting, I'd like to point out that ars magica is a mod essentially centered on spell casting, and has a spell creation system recently implemented. If you do add spells, perhaps some collaboration between this mod and ars magica? It would be pretty epic to be able to use both mods, essentially using the magic within you (ars magica) and the magic tied to the world (thaumcraft) to become powerful magi.
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Do you guys like mods? Do you like magic? Do you enjoy the idea of adding magic to minecraft? Check out my channel, and see just how awesome minecraft with magic can be! --> http://www.youtube.c.../darkpheonix005
I'm not too familiar with different mods or even Thaumcraft (just started playing it), but I've been reading around and perhaps a few ideas (dunno if they've already been mentioned):
1) I like the idea of Vis and Flux from nodes in connection to magic casting and creation. In alot of my favorite fantasy stories, wizards obtain thier best power basically by being in an either symbiotic or parasitic relationship with the land and world they're in. "Ley Lines" exist in the world and exist in a state of constant flux or movement. Wizards may locate and build thier homes on one or even where they intersect in order to have easy access to this power that fuels thier magiks, or just make already present power more potent(seeing an already present connection that players would already do?). You can use this story angle to explain away node instability... and if it really is that much of a bother due to the way that Minecraft loads chunks(cause I know that a story hook to excuse a glitch may be considered lazy XD )... is it maybe improved with the use of Chicken_bone's Chicken Chunks? If you're not familiar, the Chicken Chunks mod provides a device in world that technically acts as a player's presence in the way minecraft loads chunks. In the presence of the device, crops grow, machines work while the player themself is away and counts towards that player's chunk limit (I think?). Best of all, it already looks like a magic table that goes very nicely with the Thaumcraft look and feel.
Maybe something else you can do with the aura nodes problem is to make them more 'togglable'. I'm thinking of a thaumaturge engine that produces Vis. You could have it produce only like 20 or so, so people would be encouraged to build and stack them. But feed the machines and they work as if they were aura nodes. You could maybe even have a battery item that players could build, take to a node and have it store Vis. Then when they use thier wands, it drains off the batteries to recharge the wands if a node isn't nearby. You could even make fully charged batteries be an essential part of the aforementioned engines. Once they have thier engines, let minecraft crap out the nodes if it wants... we has replacements! \o/
2) Tailgating on the previous and addressing the concern of griefers griefing nodes, and going with your idea of adding spellcasting: add magicks and effects that use Flux!
A mage/thaumaturge that is actively draining flux off a node would reduce the risk of wisps, but maybe someone may wanna capture a wisp for it's essence (more than just the muto essence) for items or something. Maybe add in a possibility for negative effects to thaumcrafting while extreme amounts of flux are present (ex: that golem you just made starts attacking you!). But each time this happens, the player knows that the node just dumped a portion of flux out of it's pool! After all, we're playing with a higher power... we're bound to get our fingers burned once in a while.
A 'warlock' class/path that would use the dark aspects of magic and chaos. This literally has a ton of possibilities.
Use flux as an alternate method of creating obsidian or landscaping spells! A Meteor summons or isolated landquake to terraform with! A wand that works off flux instead of vis for destructive spells like some of the abilities of a DnD Warlock: Eldritch Blasts(HAH! I said 'eldritch and in reading more, I see many people want the return of an 'Eldritch' essence), dark invocations useful for status effects or bonuses or travel powers like turning into a bat. You could add vitriolic (acid) or Brimstone (flame) aspects to magic blasts. There's alot of players of minecraft that like dark/evil looking things and effects. You could even mirror some of your stuff that already exists to look dark and wicked and have flux power that research instead of vis! "a research that reduces vis cost by 10%, or increases damage with the wand of fire by 20%. These researches could possibly even include branching paths so you need to choose between 20% bonus damage or 20% less charge use on the wand.
If I include this it would more than likely come in a later update." Prime candidate for what I just mentioned perhaps? ;3
You could make a device (dunno if one like this is already present or not) that siphons the flux and stores it for quick restoration of your flux dependant abilities! This can allow server mods to place items in areas to help safeguard it from flux related griefing because the items would store the flux and teh admins could have warlock powers to use. griefers would actually be helping the admins then!! This could also help encourage experimenting because the 'penalty' of flux becomes a simple decision of whether or not you want to use it for your benefit. At the very least, they have it tucked away and if they wanna get rid of it, maybe add in a process that can 'purify' the flux to vis.
Teh lag issue... I don't really have an anser on, but on my single player game, I haven't noticed any and I've been in areas with 4 silverwood trees within a short distance of each other. Each one of them carries a node, yes?
Apart from this, maybe have the aspect stones that you find to be a lil more frequent or perhaps in a bit larger of a vein when you find them? I also like a good amount of the other ideas here for enhancing features you already have, not killing them and changing direction.
I agree with everything Azanor suggested. There are too many aspects and having to use essentia and vis is a bit strange. Although, changing this might make it a bit too similar to Ars Magica for my liking. I love Ars Magica, but I also liked having my Thaumcraft stuff feel more tech-ey and bit less magic-ey, like in thaumcraft 2. I loved having tanks of purple and crazy machinery in my base.
I think, that all of you told, you can find in ArsMagica
Yeah i know that these mechanics are reflected in ars magica, but there are some mechanics in it that i think thaumcraft should emulate if possible.
I also forgot to mention in my op that i wanted to make it more thaumcrafty then it currently is.
For example (and i will add this as an edit later to my original post), the player has a smaller mana pool, once that is drained, you have to either drain vis from the environment (or flux and inflicted with some status effect (like in mystcraft when you enter an unstable world)
When will it be updated approx? I love this mod! One of my favorites. I am on MC 1.5.1
I would advise against asking this question, there is no estimated time. It will be updated when it is, sorry if I sound rude.
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Nightmares torment me. I can no longer resist the call of the infinite. Their blows rain heavy. My wraithbone cracks. My sight in this world dims. I return to slumber. My soulstone, please take it. Save...the others
Ok so, I can't say I read all 41 pages of this, I didn't I have browsed through a few and the main post, and I've enjoyed Thaumcraft (Though I'll admit I hated the name when I first came across the mod when it was in it's earliest stages I've grown to like it.) My thoughts.
Auras & Nodes- Personally I enjoyed this, quite alot actually. Myself and the buddy I usually team up with on our servers, spent a fair bit of our time exploring and finding any and all silverwood trees we could, and relocating them, trying to see just how large we could make a singular node, more out of fun then anything else, then we'd drag it to various parts of our strongholds and kingdoms since Wisps would spit out from them, it was apretty interesting concept, that I'd be a little sad to see go.
Research- I'll agree with your statments about making it a bit more fun, after the third time around of us doing Thaumcraft, research was more a "grab a ton of resources and research everything we need quickly" then it was any real fun or amusement. Which was a bit of a con to the mod, but that was only after we had already played it.
Vis- I enjoyed the look of the Vis ore, I think that's the only reason I'd hate to see it go, I absolutely loved the way it looked in the world, or in a ravine or mineshaft, seeing the glowing veins of magic and color in the walls, it was pretty awesome.
That's covering the important stuff, at least to myself and my mates (The 7 or 8 of us who have played with TC before.) We enjoyed alot of the items, we found them incredibly usefull, and when we put a 1.5.1 server together it was unanimous that we all missed the hell out of the Fast Traveller boots, Wands of Excavation, and Wands of Equal Trade.
All in all though, I certainly appreciate the effort you've put into this mod so far, and I for one am definately looking forward to your work in the future, goodluck and I can't wait!
I just liked the idea of IlnurA and expressed it, I'm saying puppets will be great and how I wil like it to be introduced in thaumcraft, wich is wat this thread is made for.
Actually that isn't what this thread was made for. It was for Azanor to express his thoughts on future development of TC 3 on the forums to 'test the waters' as it were. And to see what people thought of his ideas on where he was hoping to go with it. Not to become a suggestion pool.
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Humanity is the creation of Logic and Emotion, Calculation and Imagination, Cold Analysis and Blind Faith. This is why I believe it is a strange Human that would prize one while shunning the other. For a calculator can do math just as well as you, but a calculator can not use math to make the world a better place.
From a design standpoint, this makes no sense at all: World of Warcraft is a game that, even if you are the greatest loner in the entire universe, you have to play along an insane amount of people on the same server, so you could look for help and complementary skills if needed. In Minecraft there is the entire singleplayer experience that World of Warcraft lacks, and since Thaumcraft is not a mod thought for a purely multiplayer experience, these mechanics will be frustrating on the long run, when you have to restart your entire world because you picked "Fire hoe" in lieu of "Heavenly spade" two months ago as a spell. Choices may exist without hard exclusion (i.e. Pick this, live forever with it and forget that other thing.)
And by the way, World of Warcraft is not an example of choice: it's a mere illusion of choice, even though it has its deal of good mechanics.
Dude, motivation to have multiplayer experience is good! If you play alone, you will have to read your thaumanomicon, think what to chose, and use your brain, and on a server, you can just ask someone to share experience in wizardry. You can hold your "Research Pages" with discovery description, until you unlock all the different pathes, and chose one, that you like more. It's just absolutley NO fun to race with your friends on a server on who will unlock all the stuff faster, cuz most of people remember all the research aspects after first time. Yes, it's fun when you are the only wizzard on a server, but there should be wizzard coopiration! And if you are so archivement-hunty and want to catch 'em all, there probably should be an end-game research to allow "Double-Specialization", and research all the things, but it should be DEEP in the research tree, so noone can simply go rush through everything to it, and then research anything you want.
And about all the "complicated spells and asking people WUT DO ME DO??", one human don't have so many time to make so many spells and archvements, so there should be a few, like 3 times more then now, and they should all be descripted to you, so you don't need to google things like "how do me do magic lazor in da taumkrafft in miencrapht????!!111!1". Thaumcraft does a pretty good job with making player able to play without google, and I think Azanor can do all the chosing your destiny stuff.
I had an idea for how to make flux/taint/balancing mechanics better, when I was thinking about the discworld series. I remember from the book I read (sourcerer) at the very beginning there where ant colonies that where highly intelligent along with other weird things. The explanation for this was that the high levels of magic within the university had mutated these animals, and had caused the other affects. Perhaps this could work in a similar way. Instead of having a base magic level and flux, you wouldn't have any magic level. Rather the more magic you do, the more magic you put out into the environment. Basically there would be an infininte amount of magic that you can draw upon. This magic doesn't exist within the world however. After you draw upon that magic, and use it for your machine, or spell or whatever it is just left sitting there in the world with no purpose. This is what causes chaotic things to happen until the magic drains back into its original source. A similar mechanic could be employed if you want to include spells. Basically some magic would be left inside of you after using a spell. That magic build up and harms the player.
edit; Also I really like alot of the mystcraft instability mechanics, such as random explosions, lighting strikes etct. Even if you leave the aura flux system the same, I think you should include more of these instability mechanics, and make them much more prevelent and random.
The lack of Aura/Vis would be fine with me, as the wands and their needed Vis charge was little more than an annoyance to me.
I also like the idea of having magical power tied to worldgen features again.
I do miss the old Obelisks from TC1 and underground void chamber thingies from TC2.
As for the Research, though I'm happy with how it is now, I wouldn't mind experiments with different and more engaging research mechanisms.
And as for fewer aspects, I'm neutral. I do think that there are too many in the current stage of this mod, but I expected for the less used aspects to gain more uses as more things were added to TC3 that needed them.
Oh, and one last thing: Please consider Ars Magica friendliness should you make a spellcasting/mana system. I'd like the two mods to be compatible.
Dude, motivation to have multiplayer experience is good! If you play alone, you will have to read your thaumanomicon, think what to chose, and use your brain, and on a server, you can just ask someone to share experience in wizardry. You can hold your "Research Pages" with discovery description, until you unlock all the different pathes, and chose one, that you like more. It's just absolutley NO fun to race with your friends on a server on who will unlock all the stuff faster, cuz most of people remember all the research aspects after first time. Yes, it's fun when you are the only wizzard on a server, but there should be wizzard coopiration! And if you are so archivement-hunty and want to catch 'em all, there probably should be an end-game research to allow "Double-Specialization", and research all the things, but it should be DEEP in the research tree, so noone can simply go rush through everything to it, and then research anything you want.
First off, not everybody likes multiplayer. You shouldn't have to force that on them, and Minecraft is a sandbox game. People shouldn't be forced to choose anything, which is one reason specializations aren't a good idea. Different research trees, with different types of blocks/items, maybe, but anything that restricts the player is bad IMO.
Dude, motivation to have multiplayer experience is good! If you play alone, you will have to read your thaumanomicon, think what to chose, and use your brain, and on a server, you can just ask someone to share experience in wizardry. You can hold your "Research Pages" with discovery description, until you unlock all the different pathes, and chose one, that you like more. It's just absolutley NO fun to race with your friends on a server on who will unlock all the stuff faster, cuz most of people remember all the research aspects after first time. Yes, it's fun when you are the only wizzard on a server, but there should be wizzard coopiration! And if you are so archivement-hunty and want to catch 'em all, there probably should be an end-game research to allow "Double-Specialization", and research all the things, but it should be DEEP in the research tree, so noone can simply go rush through everything to it, and then research anything you want.
And about all the "complicated spells and asking people WUT DO ME DO??", one human don't have so many time to make so many spells and archvements, so there should be a few, like 3 times more then now, and they should all be descripted to you, so you don't need to google things like "how do me do magic lazor in da taumkrafft in miencrapht????!!111!1". Thaumcraft does a pretty good job with making player able to play without google, and I think Azanor can do all the chosing your destiny stuff.
Yes because god forbid some one in this day and age actually have to learn how to do something themselves by doing the evil task of thinking for their damned selves. Or even worse have to preform the pagan ritual of reading. We can't have any of those elitest tasks being preformed in this game.
And no mod should try to force people into a certain play style. MInecraft is not CoD. The main draw of it has never been the actual multiplayer aspect. This is why PvP is sub par, and why every other system in the game is balanced based on the single player experience first. And Thaumcraft is not a mod designed specifically for multiplayer.
Many single player games use specialization choices. There is absolutely no reason why minecraft should be different, you already make specialization choices by choosing which mods you install.
I can give a perfectly valid reason. Right here and now.
Minecraft is a sandbox game. Which allows you to do anything you want. And is not a narrative driven game where choosing a specialization is important.
Humanity is the creation of Logic and Emotion, Calculation and Imagination, Cold Analysis and Blind Faith. This is why I believe it is a strange Human that would prize one while shunning the other. For a calculator can do math just as well as you, but a calculator can not use math to make the world a better place.
Many single player games use specialization choices. There is absolutely no reason why minecraft should be different, you already make specialization choices by choosing which mods you install.
But most of those games are RPGs, or similar. The point of a sandbox is freedom. I agree that mod installations change the way the game is played, but it's more like playing the game in the way the collective (or singular, depending on what mods you installed) mod authors want you to play it. But that's a bit different, because it's less connected to the "game"? Iunno. It's still up to you to install certain mods, but you can still choose not to install them, therefore making the issue not actually "real". Sorry, I'm having trouble explaining it >_>
So I have been doing a lot of thinking and messing about this past week and this is what I'm thinking of doing so far.
IMPORTANT: I'm still in the design and planning stages so none of this is set in stone.
Aspects
I've both reduced the number of aspects and increased them. Whaat?!
I'm reducing the number of aspects to 8, namely Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Positive, Negative, Order, Chaos.
These are called the Primal (or Primordial) Aspects.
Taking inspiration from Pyro27 and his Doodle God idea you can then get derived aspects by combining those aspects together. For example you get Light from Positive and Fire. These combinations get more and more complex as you get continue combining these aspects. In theory the number of aspects are limitless.
However the Primal aspects are the only thing that you use to power your magical doodads and spells and when you break down items you only get primal aspects... at least initially.
Research
I'm still developing my ideas for this, but my current thinking is leaning towards the following:
I'm going to use Nitor as an example. As one of the first things you will need to research it will have a 100% chance of having all the required aspects revealed. As the researches get more complex this chance will go down.
When you open up the research table and start working on Nitor you will see that it requires 2 aspects: Light and Energy. Neither of those are Primal aspects. The player only has access to primal aspects that he has gathered (I'll reveal how in the future). He needs to combine those till he has Light and Energy. Once that is done: Ta Da! Nitor research is done.
Obviously I'm leaving out some details there, but that will be the (very basic) gist of it.
Nodes
No progress yet - until the above two is complete I can't really start redesigning them. What I can say is that nodes will probably be attuned to the primal aspects. There might be more complex nodes that have more than one primal aspect or even derived aspects. Also I'm using the word "node" very loosely. Current nodes will still exist, but the term will probably also include other objects that act as sources of aspects (obelisks, etc.)
if this Idea is not dead, I'm not too sure how much I like the primary aspects, I guess if every item in the game are secondary or tertiary aspect combinations it would be like nothing changed and only the level of control would increase, but it feels like too much of a change from the previous system, that one was very comfortable and accessible. Plus the doodlegod game gets frustrating when you are trying to find that last combination that you are missing to unlock the next tier. (the theory of everything in TC3.0X would be a good example)
Also wouldn't the need to combine aspects make aspect filtering and manipulation a basic skill instead of like late tier 2? in the current version there is a long process you go through, after doing the unified thaumic field theory where you discover how to separate the aspects into essentia liquid and store it. Such a thing seems necessary from the start in the 3.1 system... that was always a huge break though for me when I get control of it, suddenly I can save and store things for later, not waste my valuable multiaspect items like string (especially in thaumic bees) and rubber (IC2)
i was reading up on all the post about having or not having the pipes in the next update.
then it hit me, the reason IMO Azanor removed them in the first place was to get away from the techmod fealing it gave and that is why he replaced them with golems. they are animated pipes.
ok ok most of us already know that. the thing is since he mentioned he kind of regret removing them, to me that means he has not found a way to recreate all posibility the pipe offered in a magi-punk way.
so to all that want the pipes back, lets figure out a thaumcraft way of getting those mechanics back without tecking it
ex:
-heating warded jar containing liquid redstone creates plasma . once connected to the arcane bore it can release the energie and activate machinery trough magic, with a distance of X determined by the magic rod in it.
-creating a "heart" to pump liquid magic around. having to carve pathways "in" the stone to let the flow of liquid vis circulate. maybe powering other device or reinforcing walls or magic barrier.
well you see what i mean. its magic but its the same has having energie or liquid pipes.
hope to see better ideas and that maybe one or two of them inspire Azanor.
Lich's do not "hop bodies", they are a body that when completely destroyed gets rebuilt at the phylactery by powerful necromantic magic.
Could you add combat puppets?
1) Puppeteer can control them from a distance.
2) In this puppets are hidden the different weapons: throwing knives, bombs with poison gas, etc.
After
Like this:
All of this is directly related to mod.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Weapons should be recharged.
In his craft can use iron, wood, and something like Alumentum.
I think, that all of you told, you can find in ArsMagica
No, ProfessorAkayuki, you and mrplaque are not talking past each other; you really *are* missing his point. Two things that I completely and utterly agree with mrplaque on are thus:
1) Overpowered does *not* = too large an amount of personal power for the amount of input required to obtain that power, or, as you stated, "too good for too little." Furthermore, requiring insane amounts of input to acquire that power does *not* = balance.
Overpowered means that there exists a certain amount of obtainable personal power (whether derived from an item, ability, etc.) that (a) does not have a sufficient penalty for use/possession and (B) does not have a sufficient, counter-balancing force (a natural 'counter'). You're right, this does not have to be related to combat.
Example (Overpowered): There exists an item that requires 576 diamonds to craft, but gives you a node of unlimited, instant aura that can never be drained and destroys all taint nearby. That *is* overpowered.
Counter-Example (Not-Overpowered - well, your opinion, I suppose): There exists an item that only requires tier 3 research and creates a node that gives you unlimited, instant aura that can never be drained and destroys all taint nearby. However, - insert some metaphysical explanation here - everything within X blocks of the node is drawn slowly into the center of the node and consumed as taint is destroyed, and, after enough land has been devoured by the node, spawns a mini-star that burns everything within 5X of the original node and no longer functions as an aura node. -insert some way to deconstruct the sun-node so that you can reenter the scorched land.
In the second example, there was not a large barrier to creating the very powerful 'thing.' However, there was certainly a large downside to using it (although some might consider it a plus). The first example might have required a large amount of valuable material, but, there is no downside to creating it. Why are these so different? Easy; given enough time, everyone will have constructed the example A node and taint becomes an irrelevant, useless gameplay mechanic (which entirely murders the fun of thaumcraft). In example B, many people might have the *ability* to create it, but most likely will not, unless they like ruining their worlds (and killing themselves at respawn again and again)
Thus, I restate: you are totally misunderstanding the quality of 'OP-ness.' (pun intended)
2) Once an overpowered item is in the mod; it is there for good, unless it (wisely) gets removed! AND, it doesn't matter if I don't want to play with it or not. If thaumcraft offered a magically-powered shotgun that instantly one-hit other players, even if it required 9 stacks of 64 nether stars, it *does not* matter if I want to *not* use it; MrDickCheney1337 living in the cobblestone hut next door who's been grinding withers for the last 10 years is going to shave my face with magical buckshot.
Besides, if OP items must absolutely be added, then they certainly must not be permanent items. Minecraft does not and *should not* have an (sweet baby Jesus I hate this term with a passion) "end-game."
1) I like the idea of Vis and Flux from nodes in connection to magic casting and creation. In alot of my favorite fantasy stories, wizards obtain thier best power basically by being in an either symbiotic or parasitic relationship with the land and world they're in. "Ley Lines" exist in the world and exist in a state of constant flux or movement. Wizards may locate and build thier homes on one or even where they intersect in order to have easy access to this power that fuels thier magiks, or just make already present power more potent(seeing an already present connection that players would already do?). You can use this story angle to explain away node instability... and if it really is that much of a bother due to the way that Minecraft loads chunks(cause I know that a story hook to excuse a glitch may be considered lazy XD )... is it maybe improved with the use of Chicken_bone's Chicken Chunks? If you're not familiar, the Chicken Chunks mod provides a device in world that technically acts as a player's presence in the way minecraft loads chunks. In the presence of the device, crops grow, machines work while the player themself is away and counts towards that player's chunk limit (I think?). Best of all, it already looks like a magic table that goes very nicely with the Thaumcraft look and feel.
Maybe something else you can do with the aura nodes problem is to make them more 'togglable'. I'm thinking of a thaumaturge engine that produces Vis. You could have it produce only like 20 or so, so people would be encouraged to build and stack them. But feed the machines and they work as if they were aura nodes. You could maybe even have a battery item that players could build, take to a node and have it store Vis. Then when they use thier wands, it drains off the batteries to recharge the wands if a node isn't nearby. You could even make fully charged batteries be an essential part of the aforementioned engines. Once they have thier engines, let minecraft crap out the nodes if it wants... we has replacements! \o/
2) Tailgating on the previous and addressing the concern of griefers griefing nodes, and going with your idea of adding spellcasting: add magicks and effects that use Flux!
A mage/thaumaturge that is actively draining flux off a node would reduce the risk of wisps, but maybe someone may wanna capture a wisp for it's essence (more than just the muto essence) for items or something. Maybe add in a possibility for negative effects to thaumcrafting while extreme amounts of flux are present (ex: that golem you just made starts attacking you!). But each time this happens, the player knows that the node just dumped a portion of flux out of it's pool! After all, we're playing with a higher power... we're bound to get our fingers burned once in a while.
A 'warlock' class/path that would use the dark aspects of magic and chaos. This literally has a ton of possibilities.
Use flux as an alternate method of creating obsidian or landscaping spells! A Meteor summons or isolated landquake to terraform with! A wand that works off flux instead of vis for destructive spells like some of the abilities of a DnD Warlock: Eldritch Blasts(HAH! I said 'eldritch and in reading more, I see many people want the return of an 'Eldritch' essence), dark invocations useful for status effects or bonuses or travel powers like turning into a bat. You could add vitriolic (acid) or Brimstone (flame) aspects to magic blasts. There's alot of players of minecraft that like dark/evil looking things and effects. You could even mirror some of your stuff that already exists to look dark and wicked and have flux power that research instead of vis! "a research that reduces vis cost by 10%, or increases damage with the wand of fire by 20%. These researches could possibly even include branching paths so you need to choose between 20% bonus damage or 20% less charge use on the wand.
If I include this it would more than likely come in a later update." Prime candidate for what I just mentioned perhaps? ;3
You could make a device (dunno if one like this is already present or not) that siphons the flux and stores it for quick restoration of your flux dependant abilities! This can allow server mods to place items in areas to help safeguard it from flux related griefing because the items would store the flux and teh admins could have warlock powers to use. griefers would actually be helping the admins then!! This could also help encourage experimenting because the 'penalty' of flux becomes a simple decision of whether or not you want to use it for your benefit. At the very least, they have it tucked away and if they wanna get rid of it, maybe add in a process that can 'purify' the flux to vis.
Teh lag issue... I don't really have an anser on, but on my single player game, I haven't noticed any and I've been in areas with 4 silverwood trees within a short distance of each other. Each one of them carries a node, yes?
Apart from this, maybe have the aspect stones that you find to be a lil more frequent or perhaps in a bit larger of a vein when you find them? I also like a good amount of the other ideas here for enhancing features you already have, not killing them and changing direction.
Yeah i know that these mechanics are reflected in ars magica, but there are some mechanics in it that i think thaumcraft should emulate if possible.
I also forgot to mention in my op that i wanted to make it more thaumcrafty then it currently is.
For example (and i will add this as an edit later to my original post), the player has a smaller mana pool, once that is drained, you have to either drain vis from the environment (or flux and inflicted with some status effect (like in mystcraft when you enter an unstable world)
I would advise against asking this question, there is no estimated time. It will be updated when it is, sorry if I sound rude.
Auras & Nodes- Personally I enjoyed this, quite alot actually. Myself and the buddy I usually team up with on our servers, spent a fair bit of our time exploring and finding any and all silverwood trees we could, and relocating them, trying to see just how large we could make a singular node, more out of fun then anything else, then we'd drag it to various parts of our strongholds and kingdoms since Wisps would spit out from them, it was apretty interesting concept, that I'd be a little sad to see go.
Research- I'll agree with your statments about making it a bit more fun, after the third time around of us doing Thaumcraft, research was more a "grab a ton of resources and research everything we need quickly" then it was any real fun or amusement. Which was a bit of a con to the mod, but that was only after we had already played it.
Vis- I enjoyed the look of the Vis ore, I think that's the only reason I'd hate to see it go, I absolutely loved the way it looked in the world, or in a ravine or mineshaft, seeing the glowing veins of magic and color in the walls, it was pretty awesome.
That's covering the important stuff, at least to myself and my mates (The 7 or 8 of us who have played with TC before.) We enjoyed alot of the items, we found them incredibly usefull, and when we put a 1.5.1 server together it was unanimous that we all missed the hell out of the Fast Traveller boots, Wands of Excavation, and Wands of Equal Trade.
All in all though, I certainly appreciate the effort you've put into this mod so far, and I for one am definately looking forward to your work in the future, goodluck and I can't wait!
Actually that isn't what this thread was made for. It was for Azanor to express his thoughts on future development of TC 3 on the forums to 'test the waters' as it were. And to see what people thought of his ideas on where he was hoping to go with it. Not to become a suggestion pool.
Dude, motivation to have multiplayer experience is good! If you play alone, you will have to read your thaumanomicon, think what to chose, and use your brain, and on a server, you can just ask someone to share experience in wizardry. You can hold your "Research Pages" with discovery description, until you unlock all the different pathes, and chose one, that you like more. It's just absolutley NO fun to race with your friends on a server on who will unlock all the stuff faster, cuz most of people remember all the research aspects after first time. Yes, it's fun when you are the only wizzard on a server, but there should be wizzard coopiration! And if you are so archivement-hunty and want to catch 'em all, there probably should be an end-game research to allow "Double-Specialization", and research all the things, but it should be DEEP in the research tree, so noone can simply go rush through everything to it, and then research anything you want.
And about all the "complicated spells and asking people WUT DO ME DO??", one human don't have so many time to make so many spells and archvements, so there should be a few, like 3 times more then now, and they should all be descripted to you, so you don't need to google things like "how do me do magic lazor in da taumkrafft in miencrapht????!!111!1". Thaumcraft does a pretty good job with making player able to play without google, and I think Azanor can do all the chosing your destiny stuff.
edit; Also I really like alot of the mystcraft instability mechanics, such as random explosions, lighting strikes etct. Even if you leave the aura flux system the same, I think you should include more of these instability mechanics, and make them much more prevelent and random.
The lack of Aura/Vis would be fine with me, as the wands and their needed Vis charge was little more than an annoyance to me.
I also like the idea of having magical power tied to worldgen features again.
I do miss the old Obelisks from TC1 and underground void chamber thingies from TC2.
As for the Research, though I'm happy with how it is now, I wouldn't mind experiments with different and more engaging research mechanisms.
And as for fewer aspects, I'm neutral. I do think that there are too many in the current stage of this mod, but I expected for the less used aspects to gain more uses as more things were added to TC3 that needed them.
Oh, and one last thing: Please consider Ars Magica friendliness should you make a spellcasting/mana system. I'd like the two mods to be compatible.
First off, not everybody likes multiplayer. You shouldn't have to force that on them, and Minecraft is a sandbox game. People shouldn't be forced to choose anything, which is one reason specializations aren't a good idea. Different research trees, with different types of blocks/items, maybe, but anything that restricts the player is bad IMO.
Profile pic by Cheshirette c:
Yes because god forbid some one in this day and age actually have to learn how to do something themselves by doing the evil task of thinking for their damned selves. Or even worse have to preform the pagan ritual of reading. We can't have any of those elitest tasks being preformed in this game.
And no mod should try to force people into a certain play style. MInecraft is not CoD. The main draw of it has never been the actual multiplayer aspect. This is why PvP is sub par, and why every other system in the game is balanced based on the single player experience first. And Thaumcraft is not a mod designed specifically for multiplayer.
I can give a perfectly valid reason. Right here and now.
Minecraft is a sandbox game. Which allows you to do anything you want. And is not a narrative driven game where choosing a specialization is important.
But most of those games are RPGs, or similar. The point of a sandbox is freedom. I agree that mod installations change the way the game is played, but it's more like playing the game in the way the collective (or singular, depending on what mods you installed) mod authors want you to play it. But that's a bit different, because it's less connected to the "game"? Iunno. It's still up to you to install certain mods, but you can still choose not to install them, therefore making the issue not actually "real". Sorry, I'm having trouble explaining it >_>
Profile pic by Cheshirette c:
if this Idea is not dead, I'm not too sure how much I like the primary aspects, I guess if every item in the game are secondary or tertiary aspect combinations it would be like nothing changed and only the level of control would increase, but it feels like too much of a change from the previous system, that one was very comfortable and accessible. Plus the doodlegod game gets frustrating when you are trying to find that last combination that you are missing to unlock the next tier. (the theory of everything in TC3.0X would be a good example)
Also wouldn't the need to combine aspects make aspect filtering and manipulation a basic skill instead of like late tier 2? in the current version there is a long process you go through, after doing the unified thaumic field theory where you discover how to separate the aspects into essentia liquid and store it. Such a thing seems necessary from the start in the 3.1 system... that was always a huge break though for me when I get control of it, suddenly I can save and store things for later, not waste my valuable multiaspect items like string (especially in thaumic bees) and rubber (IC2)
then it hit me, the reason IMO Azanor removed them in the first place was to get away from the techmod fealing it gave and that is why he replaced them with golems. they are animated pipes.
ok ok most of us already know that. the thing is since he mentioned he kind of regret removing them, to me that means he has not found a way to recreate all posibility the pipe offered in a magi-punk way.
so to all that want the pipes back, lets figure out a thaumcraft way of getting those mechanics back without tecking it
ex:
-heating warded jar containing liquid redstone creates plasma . once connected to the arcane bore it can release the energie and activate machinery trough magic, with a distance of X determined by the magic rod in it.
-creating a "heart" to pump liquid magic around. having to carve pathways "in" the stone to let the flow of liquid vis circulate. maybe powering other device or reinforcing walls or magic barrier.
well you see what i mean. its magic but its the same has having energie or liquid pipes.
hope to see better ideas and that maybe one or two of them inspire Azanor.
no religion only hope, no stupidity only knowledge in training.