Edit: This is meant to be in the Minecraft Mods section, not this sub forum. If a moderator decides not to delete this could it please be moved to that section?
In light of recent events, I am going to give a clear answer to everyone who ever had a question about mod copyrights. Please make sure to read the whole post before writing some sort of rage to me as you may see your argument already destroyed.
Many parts of this post will be making reference to the Minecraft EULA. This is a legal document that cannot be disputed. Also many of the topics I am about to discuss can be found in this thread: http://www.minecraft...g/page__st__320
If you make any content available on or through our Game, you must give us permission to use, copy, modify and adapt that content. This permission must be irrevocable, and you must also let us permit other people to use, copy, modify and adapt your content. If you don‘t want to give us this permission, do not make content available on or through our Game. Please think carefully before you make any content available, because it will be made public and might even be used by other people in a way you don‘t like. This is the strongest point in the minecraft EULA concerning mod copyrights. In that, the biggest line is: “you must also let us permit other people to use, copy, modify and adapt your content.” Right here means that if you make content available for the game of Minecraft, then you lose all rights to your code. Others may steal your code and republish it without a thought to the legal consequences as there are none. They may copy sections, decompile it, and do whatever they wish with it. It is no longer yours.
If you've bought the Game, you may play around with it and modify it. We'd appreciate it if you didn't use this for griefing, though, and remember not to distribute the changed versions of our software. Basically, mods (or plugins, or tools) are cool (you can distribute those), hacked versions of the Game client or server are not (you can't distribute those). "If you've bought the Game, you may play around with it and modify it." This line means that if a player legitimately bought the game then the player is free to play it and mod it to the player’s desire no matter what anyone but Mojang says. Modders cannot say 'to play my mod you must be on a vanilla client and/or be playing on a modpack I have approved' as said modder is freely distributing it with a publicly accessible download link. If the client shuts down. This means that by using a mod the player is unable to "play around with [Minecraft]" despite the copy of the game being legally acquired and modifying it as the player wants thus violating the Minecraft EULA.
If anyone was confused by the last section, this pretty much states it clear as day:
Any content you make available on our Game must also be your creation. You must not make any content available, using the Game, that infringes the rights of anyone else. If you post content on our Game, and we get challenged, threatened or sued by someone because the content infringes that persons rights, we may hold you responsible and that means you may have to pay us back for any damage we suffer as a result. Therefore it is really important that you only make content available that you have created and you don‘t do so with any content created by anyone else. If your code does anything to the client computer outside of the game world (Like corrupting world files, shutting down the client, etc.) then the code is violating Minecraft EULA.
I've gotten a few reports of this mod possibly acting maliciously if installed without "permission". Per the Minecraft terms of use: "Please think carefully before you make any content available, because it will be made public and might even be used by other people in a way you don‘t like."
There will also be a future update to the terms that will address malicious code, which is to say anything that intentionally prevents someone from playing the game, or purposefully negatively affects the game experience.
Modders receive permission to play the game and distribute mods from Mojang, just like other players, through the terms of use. They do not get to dictate their own terms of use for content that is created for Minecraft. So in that post: Mod authors do not get to dictate their own terms of use. Every single 'license' that makes a demand of players is against the EULA. So, if a mod author requires that you ask them for 'permission', they are literally making stuff up to please themselves. Furthermore, if a mod author tried to enforce copyright through the use of malicious code, or by other means, they are breaking a legal document they accepted when they paid for the game. As Marc said, this is against the EULA (soon to be updated to include this) and mod authors who do this NEED to be reported to Mojang by responsible and sensible players. It is an affront to the community that authors like this attempt to enforce these rules on honest players.
In addition, if the new Minecraft EULA was not enough to convince you of how this works, let's take a step back and look at it from a legal standpoint, disregarding anything Mojang have issued.
Copyright infringement is a civil crime. To win a civil court case, you have to prove monetary damages. You can't sell mods for Minecraft because the game doesn't belong to you. Therefore, you have made no money of it, thus there are no monetary damages to prove, ergo no case.
To conclude, the only authority that means anything is the authority of Mojang; this new EULA makes their position clear. Any mod author out there which is trying to get people to follow their own rules, or sticks a license on their mod that does not allow unrestricted using, copying, modifying and adapting to all parties, be aware that that mod author is contravening the Minecraft EULA.
If you have any questions for clarification, please leave a post below and I will do my best to inform you better of the legality it concerns.
If you have a negative comment on how I’m a liar, or how my mom sucks, or any other blatant insult; please refrain from making said comment. It would be nice to keep this formal in case there is any real dispute.
Thanks to SXScarecrow (Did a lot of the concluding stuff), MooseMan9, Planetguy, and Richs_Yard for helping with the compilation of this post. It wouldn't be half as great without their help!
Although you do bring up some good points I would like to point out some huge flaws with your post. Before I get into that I would like to mention that regardless of opinions on what these rules mean, the minecraft forums rules "trumps" mojangs EULA when it comes to content that has been posted on this site. Just because it's ok with mojang does not mean it is ok with the minecraft forums or curse.
As for your entire argument, it's invalid. The current EULA only deals with mods that are considered Derived works. A derived work is something that contains parts of the original work. As of now API's such as forge no longer contain pieces of the original game and use patches and other methods to implement itself into the game. Forge is not a derived work and thus is regarded as a separate piece of software. This is also true for the majority of mods that use forge. They do not directly include any of the forge code or any of the minecraft code. They are their own pieces of software.
Furthermore all your points are more so your own opinion rather than factual statements. This is partially due to how you worded your initial argument. It is true that mod authors give mojang the right to use, modify, copy and adapt our content and mojang can also permit others to do the same. As of now mojang has not given the general public the rights to do those things to mods meaning that mod authors still have permission of their mods. In fact as you quoted yourself mojang states that they do not allow others to distribute content they did not create. This entire section is questionable as there are some legal grey areas here for what qualifies as content being distributed on or for their game and because mods are separate software from the game it would be up to the judges or someone with higher legal standing then us to declare what legal documents have higher authority in this situation.
As for marks quote. Just because he says something does not make it true or have any legal standing. This is a direct issue between a mod author and mojang. The two pieces of software are separate and each of the respective authors have their individual rights over their own software.
As for malicious code, the user is modifying how the vanilla game runs. Causing the game to crash or throw an exception is not malicious. It's rude but it certainly dose not cause harm or damage to the user or their software.
Although you do bring up some good points I would like to point out some huge flaws with your post. Before I get into that I would like to mention that regardless of opinions on what these rules mean, the minecraft forums rules "trumps" mojangs EULA when it comes to content that has been posted on this site. Just because it's ok with mojang does not mean it is ok with the minecraft forums or curse.
As for your entire argument, it's invalid. The current EULA only deals with mods that are considered Derived works. A derived work is something that contains parts of the original work. As of now API's such as forge no longer contain pieces of the original game and use patches and other methods to implement itself into the game. Forge is not a derived work and thus is regarded as a separate piece of software. This is also true for the majority of mods that use forge. They do not directly include any of the forge code or any of the minecraft code. They are their own pieces of software.
Furthermore all your points are more so your own opinion rather than factual statements. This is partially due to how you worded your initial argument. It is true that mod authors give mojang the right to use, modify, copy and adapt our content and mojang can also permit others to do the same. As of now mojang has not given the general public the rights to do those things to mods meaning that mod authors still have permission of their mods. In fact as you quoted yourself mojang states that they do not allow others to distribute content they did not create. This entire section is questionable as there are some legal grey areas here for what qualifies as content being distributed on or for their game and because mods are separate software from the game it would be up to the judges or someone with higher legal standing then us to declare what legal documents have higher authority in this situation.
As for marks quote. Just because he says something does not make it true or have any legal standing. This is a direct issue between a mod author and mojang. The two pieces of software are separate and each of the respective authors have their individual rights over their own software.
As for malicious code, the user is modifying how the vanilla game runs. Causing the game to crash or throw an exception is not malicious. It's rude but it certainly dose not cause harm or damage to the user or their software.
Why then, would Marc go out of his way to make such a post? Why would Marc quote the exact things I just quoted to make the same points? By thinking this post is in any way false, you are also saying Marc, an actual employee of Mojang whom probably had a large part in making the Minecraft EULA, was wrong in his post. I might also point out this: https://twitter.com/EnzerDeLeo/status/413771391276556292
Pretty darn clear that it's against Minecraft EULA.
If you won't take it from me, then take it from the horses mouth.
Also, how do the "minecraft forums rules "trumps" mojangs EULA when it comes to content that has been posted on this site."? correct me if I am wrong but as far as I have known, the minecraftforums are third party. I don't think anyone who is third party is doing any "trumping" over a real product.
Why then, would Marc go out of his way to make such a post? Why would Marc quote the exact things I just quoted to make the same points? By thinking this post is in any way false, you are also saying Marc, an actual employee of Mojang whom probably had a large part in making the Minecraft EULA, was wrong in his post. I might also point out this: https://twitter.com/...771391276556292
Pretty darn clear that it's against Minecraft EULA.
If you won't take it from me, then take it from the horses mouth.
Also, how do the "minecraft forums rules "trumps" mojangs EULA when it comes to content that has been posted on this site."? correct me if I am wrong but as far as I have known, the minecraftforums are third party. I don't think anyone who is third party is doing any "trumping" over a real product.
You are ignoring the part where I say the Minecraft EULA can be arguably invalid. As mods are separate pieces of software any issues between mojang and the authors terms would be between them and a judge in a legal trial. It's more of a matter of what legal document takes the priority in that case. Is it the relevant Copyright Act or is it Mojangs EULA? This is a question neither of us is qualified to answer.
As for how the forum rules trump mojangs eula in regards to content posted on this site. That was a disclaimer stating that even if mojang gives permission for things such as hacked clients for griefing to be distributed, if it's posted on the forums, the forums can still remove and infract that user. All content posted on this site is subject to the forum rules.
You are ignoring the part where I say the Minecraft EULA can be arguably invalid. As mods are separate pieces of software any issues between mojang and the authors terms would be between them and a judge in a legal trial. It's more of a matter of what legal document takes the priority in that case. Is it the relevant Copyright Act or is it Mojangs EULA? This is a question neither of us is qualified to answer.
Mods are subject to the Minecraft EULA.
Edit: I have been told that "content" in the terms may not refer to modding. Questions about this should be emailed to support, wherein I will have someone else answer the question.
As for how the forum rules trump mojangs eula in regards to content posted on this site. That was a disclaimer stating that even if mojang gives permission for things such as hacked clients for griefing to be distributed, if it's posted on the forums, the forums can still remove and infract that user. All content posted on this site is subject to the forum rules.
Obviously
Since this post is still being referred to two years later, I'll update and say that if there is a question about whether or not you can do something, go to account.mojang.com/terms. If you still can't figure it out, consult a legal professional or don't do that thing.
You are ignoring the part where I say the Minecraft EULA can be arguably invalid. As mods are separate pieces of software any issues between mojang and the authors terms would be between them and a judge in a legal trial. It's more of a matter of what legal document takes the priority in that case. Is it the relevant Copyright Act or is it Mojangs EULA? This is a question neither of us is qualified to answer.
As for how the forum rules trump mojangs eula in regards to content posted on this site. That was a disclaimer stating that even if mojang gives permission for things such as hacked clients for griefing to be distributed, if it's posted on the forums, the forums can still remove and infract that user. All content posted on this site is subject to the forum rules.
You are very right, yet here comes Marc saying that the EULA does include mods. That's good enough for me. If it's not for you then you can talk it out with him.
As for the Forum thing, fair enough. I was more leaning to the copyright itself but if your just going to go with the content I won't argue.
There are 2 things to look at here, the law, and the forum rules.
Legally, you can do whatever you want with a publicly posted mod, and there's nothing they can do about it. Minecraft has a real copyright, these mods just have some stuff someone types to feel better. As long as you do not make any monetary gain using their intellectual property, you can do as you wish with it because it is publicly available content. If you want to put a mod in your mod-pack, there is nothing they can do about it, legally, unless you make any profit.
Now, forum rules are different, any member is still subject to these rules. For example, if someone posts a mod-pack on this forum against the modders wishes, action can can taken within the forums, like deleting it, banning, etc. Also, if someone tries to claim content for their own, you can remove it and remove them.
Let me use a different example, Youtube. If you post a video on Youtube, I can then re-post the video just about anywhere, I can link it, reference it, download it, record it, etc. because this was publicly available content. Now, the minute I make any sort of profit from that video, I need permission, otherwise there will then be legal issues. But again, Youtube will have it's own policies and rules it can enforce within their website.
All that being said, can you do what you want with the content? yes. Should you? NO. Personally I still respect the wishes of any mod authors, based on principal. They spend a lot of time and effort into making these mods, and they receive nothing in return. If they ask you not to do something with their mod, it's just common decency to respect that, they did the work not you. I also encourage everyone to boycott any content that violates the creators wishes.
I wrote a massive post before, but for some odd reason it didn't submit. Not sure if it got deleted or not. I think I managed to write a better argument this time around anyway
The basic gist of it though was that you do not give up your rights to your mod if you make it public. You only allow Mojang to the right to copy, modify, and adapt your work, and also any third party that they choose. Just like you don't give up your copyright to a Youtube video if you make it public, it's still your work, or if you write a song and put it up on Soundcloud. There are terms of service for using those services, but at the end of the day it's still your work.
Having said that, there is no stipulation in the EULA requiring you to allow modpacks (or anyone else) to distribute your content, Unless Mojang gives permission.
and you must also let uspermit other people to use, copy, modify and adapt your content.
There is nothing stopping you from distributing it however you like, with the exception of selling it. That you can not do. But you can choose what permissions you give to the public. Open Source, Creative Commons, etc.
You might of gotten the wrong impression from this
Please think carefully before you make any content available, because it will be made public and might even be used by other people in a way you don‘t like.
Because the EULA is written so colloquially, it's hard to tell if it's advice, or a guarantee, but from how I see it, it is advice to content creators who may not understand what it means to give Mojang those permissions. It could end up in third party hands, and you have no say in that if Mojang allow it. I belive this is the case because of this section of the EULA
Any tools you write for the Game from scratch belong to you. . Modifications to the Game ("Mods") (including pre-run Mods and in-memory Mods) and plugins for the Game also belong to you and you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you don‘t sell them for money / try to make money from them. We have the final say on what constitutes a tool/mod/plugin and what doesn‘t.
This section in the Minecraft EULA supports my Opinion that a mod developer's own Eula should be allowed, as it is their work, even though there's no real way of enforcing them, it at least gives content creators a way of covering themselves if their content is stolen for other purposes other than Minecraft. It's just a matter of respect otherwise.
As for
Copyright infringement is a civil crime.
This is true if someone was to seek damages. But most services have a Term of Service that does not allow copyrighted material unless it belongs to the user. A mod developer could theoretically file a copyright infringement notice to a file hosting company if their content was being distributed without their, or Mojang's permission. If it managed to follow through is an entire different story. Certainly be interesting to find out.
I would like to see how the EULA changes in respect to the malicious code, and if the changes will clarify content creator's right to add terms to their service.
Basically, users can do whatever they want with ALL mods now.
If my above argument holds true, this isn't exactly true. And the EULA hasn't changed since December, so the future changes haven' been made yet. Honestly, it's probably easiest to blanket allow use to everyone bound to the EULA explicitly, and state if it can be used for modpacks, or if pemission is needed. I've made a few private packs before, and I feel that it's fair enough if a Mod Developer asks for a user to give credit where credit is due. Maybe a clause saying that any compilation must give clear credit to any work that's not their own? Time will tell anyway. By the looks of it, seeking permission is just a matter of respecting the Mod Authors work, rather than a requirement.
In a slightly different topic, but still concerning the EULA,
Essentially the simple rule is do not make commercial use of anything we‘ve made unless specifically agreed by us, either in our brand and asset usage guidelines or under this EULA. Oh and if the law expressly allows it, such as under a “fair use” or fair dealing” doctrine then that‘s ok too – but only to the extent that the law says so.
If I was to make a Minecraft parody (not that we have enough of those) and use art assets and such from Minecraft, that is covered by US Fair Use. If I was to make and distribute it from a country where Parody is not considered fair use, would that be considered copyright infringement?
"If you make any content available on or through our Game, you must give us permission to use, copy, modify and adapt that content. This permission must be irrevocable, and you must also let us permit other people to use, copy, modify and adapt your content."
The above statement clearly states that Mojang can use your mod however they want. It also states that they can permit other people use it however they want, though I can't see anywhere it says that 3rd parties (everyone except the mod developer and Mojang) can do the same. The license expressly says "you must also let us permit other people", not "you must also permit other people" - note the "let us", which to me implies that Mojang can explicitly permit other people to use the content in any way, but that 3rd parties can't give themselves rights on their own.
"Any tools you write for the Game from scratch belong to you. . Modifications to the Game ("Mods") (including pre-run Mods and in-memory Mods) and plugins for the Game also belong to you and you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you don‘t sell them for money / try to make money from them."
That statement says that "you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you don‘t sell them for money / try to make money from them." To me, it would seem as licensing is something you can do if you can do 'anything'.
Let me use a different example, Youtube. If you post a video on Youtube, I can then re-post the video just about anywhere, I can link it, reference it, download it, record it, etc. because this was publicly available content. Now, the minute I make any sort of profit from that video, I need permission, otherwise there will then be legal issues. But again, Youtube will have it's own policies and rules it can enforce within their website.
This is against fundamental copyright law: (From Wikipedia) "Because copyright law in most countries by default grants copyright holders monopolistic control over their creations, copyright content must be explicitly declared free, usually by the referencing or inclusion of licensing statements from within the work." Creations are, as soon as they are physically stored somehow (drawn on paper, written down, recorded on hard drives/CDs etc.), in a way assigned an "all rights reserved" status automatically. This means you can't re-post it etc. because it infringes on the rights of the person who initially created it, or whoever owns the copyright for that content.
{[ Please note, I am NOT your or anyone else's lawyer. ]}
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I AM NOT YOUR PERSONAL MINECRAFT MOD SUPPORT AGENT, SO PLEASE DO NOT PM ME ABOUT PROBLEMATIC MODS THAT ARE NOT MINE. If you're having trouble/crashes with a mod, you'll have better luck resolving it in this forum section than PMing me. If you already made a topic, be patient about responses. If you have troubles with anything non-Minecraft related on your PC, I might be able to help, though, but no promises. Even though I could wish to be, I'm not a wizard.
The license applies when the software is considered "available on or available through [Minecraft]". I think there's no doubt that the majority of Forge mods fit in that category. This gives users the legal right to "copy, modify and adapt" those projects.
Maybe this will lead to a growth in the Modding community as modders share ideas and use (not exploit) each others code for the benefit of players?
Maybe this will lead to the growth of successful platforms that host the content with less restrictions in place?
What Minecraft has as a playerbase is outstanding and i’m sure the players will still give modders the same credit they always had. If any of these modders are really coding for the benefit of the Minecraft community, they’ll see these changes as a stage in opening up modding to a wider audience. THIS!!!
This is what I personally want! People seem so centered on their mod and their content that the community as a whole becomes more hostile. That is the opposite of what we should be striving for.
Are you sure? Because from my (limited) understanding of implied clauses in contracts, it must be obvious to both parties, law, or customary, none which seem to apply. And in the tone Mojang wrote their EULA, they clarify everything colloquially, so this is pretty much murky water here. I would like to add that I usually work with copyrights for music, so this is a bit different, so excuse my ignorance if its painfully obvious. You're very right in saying it's murky water in how colloquially the EULA is written. The amount of interpretations possible makes things like this very difficult to discuss but I do think SXScarecrow has hit the nail on the head in saying that Mojang is giving everyone who follows EULA permission to use, copy, modify and adapt mods made publicly available as we are already using the mods freely.
Copying, modifying, and adapting are all similar enough to safely say that they must fall under the same conditions of "use" in that Mojang is giving the end users the ability to copy, modify and adapt mods in the same way we are able to use the mods made for minecraft.
If my above argument holds true, this isn't exactly true. And the EULA hasn't changed since December, so the future changes haven' been made yet. Honestly, it's probably easiest to blanket allow use to everyone bound to the EULA explicitly, and state if it can be used for modpacks, or if pemission is needed. I've made a few private packs before, and I feel that it's fair enough if a Mod Developer asks for a user to give credit where credit is due. Maybe a clause saying that any compilation must give clear credit to any work that's not their own? Time will tell anyway. By the looks of it, seeking permission is just a matter of respecting the Mod Authors work, rather than a requirement. I share your thoughts that the EULA needs to be cleared up in it's wording and things like this made more concrete so it does not need to be debated. But as it stands things like this need to be addressed. We cannot stand idle letting modders use malicious code to soil others experience. It is not right that they should hold such power over public content with people who just want to enjoy the mod.
Here's my nitpick that sets my stance so anti copyright. Note that this is my personal opinion on what I perceive happens.
Now lets say a mod packer looks at mod 'A', a very small and under appreciated mod, and says: "Oh wow! This is cool!" and puts mod 'A' into their modpack without consulting the mod author. Modpack then gets thousands of hits with mod 'A' being one of the best parts of the pack. The amount of recognition the mod has received grows tenfold due to the modpack. The mod author gets mad at the modpack author for using the mod without their permission.
Do you see the problem here?
Before you say that this has never happened, it has, does, and will continue to happen unless we stop this modder ego. Copyrights seem to be the root of this problem as once a mod is popular, it HAS to be because of the modder's superb coding ability and cannot be because some modpack maker made a good coupling of mods.
We need more people like JakJ who don't give a damn on what happens with their mod. Sure people may have outright copied his code and published it as their own, but we as players can see through this knowing who the real talent is. Really, if I made a mod and someone did that, it would mean that someone thought my mod worth something. Same goes for when people include mods in mod packs.
Modding a game used to be about having fun and sharing that fun with others. In most games that's still what it is, a fun thing. But in Minecraft it has become so much more egocentric and in the egocentrics, it has grown carnivorous to the point of fights like this. This should not be happening, modders should be collaborating for the good of the community, not for the internet fame that comes with a good mod.
Sure people may have outright copied his code and published it as their own, but we as players can see through this knowing who the real talent is. Really, if I made a mod and someone did that, it would mean that someone thought my mod worth something.
I'd sure love to live in the world you live in, where the theft of one's ideas and work is just a casual and completely acceptable happening.You seem to be on the side of the fence that lets you do whatever you want with material that doesn't belong to you, and that you don't even want to consider asking for, seemingly just because it's inconvenient for you.
People seem so centered on their mod and their content
That they made, with their time and their skills.
Honestly, I don't need to elaborate on my views here, because they've already been brought up in previous posts. Mojang's EULA doesn't say that mods are property of everyone, to be used by everyone as they see fit.
And if they add a section to the EULA stating that "malicious" preventative code is a no-go, I hope every modder out there finds a more elegant way to prevent those too lazy to ask, from reaping benefits of work they had no part in.
How hard is it to ask? Since when did asking become some sort of internet-cultural taboo?
EDIT: Removed formatting, after baseless accusations
In light of recent events, I am going to give a clear answer to everyone who ever had a question about mod copyrights. Please make sure to read the whole post before writing some sort of rage to me as you may see your argument already destroyed.
Many parts of this post will be making reference to the Minecraft EULA. This is a legal document that cannot be disputed. Also many of the topics I am about to discuss can be found in this thread: http://www.minecraft...g/page__st__320
Copyright:
If you make any content available on or through our Game, you must give us permission to use, copy, modify and adapt that content. This permission must be irrevocable, and you must also let us permit other people to use, copy, modify and adapt your content. If you don‘t want to give us this permission, do not make content available on or through our Game. Please think carefully before you make any content available, because it will be made public and might even be used by other people in a way you don‘t like.
This is the strongest point in the minecraft EULA concerning mod copyrights. In that, the biggest line is: “you must also let us permit other people to use, copy, modify and adapt your content.” Right here means that if you make content available for the game of Minecraft, then you lose all rights to your code. Others may steal your code and republish it without a thought to the legal consequences as there are none. They may copy sections, decompile it, and do whatever they wish with it. It is no longer yours.
Malicious code:
If you've bought the Game, you may play around with it and modify it. We'd appreciate it if you didn't use this for griefing, though, and remember not to distribute the changed versions of our software. Basically, mods (or plugins, or tools) are cool (you can distribute those), hacked versions of the Game client or server are not (you can't distribute those).
"If you've bought the Game, you may play around with it and modify it." This line means that if a player legitimately bought the game then the player is free to play it and mod it to the player’s desire no matter what anyone but Mojang says. Modders cannot say 'to play my mod you must be on a vanilla client and/or be playing on a modpack I have approved' as said modder is freely distributing it with a publicly accessible download link. If the client shuts down. This means that by using a mod the player is unable to "play around with [Minecraft]" despite the copy of the game being legally acquired and modifying it as the player wants thus violating the Minecraft EULA.
If anyone was confused by the last section, this pretty much states it clear as day:
Any content you make available on our Game must also be your creation. You must not make any content available, using the Game, that infringes the rights of anyone else. If you post content on our Game, and we get challenged, threatened or sued by someone because the content infringes that persons rights, we may hold you responsible and that means you may have to pay us back for any damage we suffer as a result. Therefore it is really important that you only make content available that you have created and you don‘t do so with any content created by anyone else.
If your code does anything to the client computer outside of the game world (Like corrupting world files, shutting down the client, etc.) then the code is violating Minecraft EULA.
Now I will finish with a quote from Marc:
I've gotten a few reports of this mod possibly acting maliciously if installed without "permission". Per the Minecraft terms of use: "Please think carefully before you make any content available, because it will be made public and might even be used by other people in a way you don‘t like."
There will also be a future update to the terms that will address malicious code, which is to say anything that intentionally prevents someone from playing the game, or purposefully negatively affects the game experience.
Modders receive permission to play the game and distribute mods from Mojang, just like other players, through the terms of use. They do not get to dictate their own terms of use for content that is created for Minecraft.
So in that post:
Mod authors do not get to dictate their own terms of use. Every single 'license' that makes a demand of players is against the EULA. So, if a mod author requires that you ask them for 'permission', they are literally making stuff up to please themselves.
Furthermore, if a mod author tried to enforce copyright through the use of malicious code, or by other means, they are breaking a legal document they accepted when they paid for the game. As Marc said, this is against the EULA (soon to be updated to include this) and mod authors who do this NEED to be reported to Mojang by responsible and sensible players. It is an affront to the community that authors like this attempt to enforce these rules on honest players.
In addition, if the new Minecraft EULA was not enough to convince you of how this works, let's take a step back and look at it from a legal standpoint, disregarding anything Mojang have issued.
Copyright infringement is a civil crime. To win a civil court case, you have to prove monetary damages. You can't sell mods for Minecraft because the game doesn't belong to you. Therefore, you have made no money of it, thus there are no monetary damages to prove, ergo no case.
To conclude, the only authority that means anything is the authority of Mojang; this new EULA makes their position clear. Any mod author out there which is trying to get people to follow their own rules, or sticks a license on their mod that does not allow unrestricted using, copying, modifying and adapting to all parties, be aware that that mod author is contravening the Minecraft EULA.
If you have any questions for clarification, please leave a post below and I will do my best to inform you better of the legality it concerns.
If you have a negative comment on how I’m a liar, or how my mom sucks, or any other blatant insult; please refrain from making said comment. It would be nice to keep this formal in case there is any real dispute.
Thanks to SXScarecrow (Did a lot of the concluding stuff), MooseMan9, Planetguy, and Richs_Yard for helping with the compilation of this post. It wouldn't be half as great without their help!
go luke go!
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Retired StaffAs for your entire argument, it's invalid. The current EULA only deals with mods that are considered Derived works. A derived work is something that contains parts of the original work. As of now API's such as forge no longer contain pieces of the original game and use patches and other methods to implement itself into the game. Forge is not a derived work and thus is regarded as a separate piece of software. This is also true for the majority of mods that use forge. They do not directly include any of the forge code or any of the minecraft code. They are their own pieces of software.
Furthermore all your points are more so your own opinion rather than factual statements. This is partially due to how you worded your initial argument. It is true that mod authors give mojang the right to use, modify, copy and adapt our content and mojang can also permit others to do the same. As of now mojang has not given the general public the rights to do those things to mods meaning that mod authors still have permission of their mods. In fact as you quoted yourself mojang states that they do not allow others to distribute content they did not create. This entire section is questionable as there are some legal grey areas here for what qualifies as content being distributed on or for their game and because mods are separate software from the game it would be up to the judges or someone with higher legal standing then us to declare what legal documents have higher authority in this situation.
As for marks quote. Just because he says something does not make it true or have any legal standing. This is a direct issue between a mod author and mojang. The two pieces of software are separate and each of the respective authors have their individual rights over their own software.
As for malicious code, the user is modifying how the vanilla game runs. Causing the game to crash or throw an exception is not malicious. It's rude but it certainly dose not cause harm or damage to the user or their software.
Farewell everyone o/
Why then, would Marc go out of his way to make such a post? Why would Marc quote the exact things I just quoted to make the same points? By thinking this post is in any way false, you are also saying Marc, an actual employee of Mojang whom probably had a large part in making the Minecraft EULA, was wrong in his post. I might also point out this: https://twitter.com/EnzerDeLeo/status/413771391276556292
Pretty darn clear that it's against Minecraft EULA.
If you won't take it from me, then take it from the horses mouth.
Also, how do the "minecraft forums rules "trumps" mojangs EULA when it comes to content that has been posted on this site."? correct me if I am wrong but as far as I have known, the minecraftforums are third party. I don't think anyone who is third party is doing any "trumping" over a real product.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Retired StaffYou are ignoring the part where I say the Minecraft EULA can be arguably invalid. As mods are separate pieces of software any issues between mojang and the authors terms would be between them and a judge in a legal trial. It's more of a matter of what legal document takes the priority in that case. Is it the relevant Copyright Act or is it Mojangs EULA? This is a question neither of us is qualified to answer.
As for how the forum rules trump mojangs eula in regards to content posted on this site. That was a disclaimer stating that even if mojang gives permission for things such as hacked clients for griefing to be distributed, if it's posted on the forums, the forums can still remove and infract that user. All content posted on this site is subject to the forum rules.
Farewell everyone o/
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
MojangMods are subject to the Minecraft EULA.Edit: I have been told that "content" in the terms may not refer to modding. Questions about this should be emailed to support, wherein I will have someone else answer the question.Obviously
Since this post is still being referred to two years later, I'll update and say that if there is a question about whether or not you can do something, go to account.mojang.com/terms. If you still can't figure it out, consult a legal professional or don't do that thing.
You are very right, yet here comes Marc saying that the EULA does include mods. That's good enough for me. If it's not for you then you can talk it out with him.
As for the Forum thing, fair enough. I was more leaning to the copyright itself but if your just going to go with the content I won't argue.
Legally, you can do whatever you want with a publicly posted mod, and there's nothing they can do about it. Minecraft has a real copyright, these mods just have some stuff someone types to feel better. As long as you do not make any monetary gain using their intellectual property, you can do as you wish with it because it is publicly available content. If you want to put a mod in your mod-pack, there is nothing they can do about it, legally, unless you make any profit.
Now, forum rules are different, any member is still subject to these rules. For example, if someone posts a mod-pack on this forum against the modders wishes, action can can taken within the forums, like deleting it, banning, etc. Also, if someone tries to claim content for their own, you can remove it and remove them.
Let me use a different example, Youtube. If you post a video on Youtube, I can then re-post the video just about anywhere, I can link it, reference it, download it, record it, etc. because this was publicly available content. Now, the minute I make any sort of profit from that video, I need permission, otherwise there will then be legal issues. But again, Youtube will have it's own policies and rules it can enforce within their website.
All that being said, can you do what you want with the content? yes. Should you? NO. Personally I still respect the wishes of any mod authors, based on principal. They spend a lot of time and effort into making these mods, and they receive nothing in return. If they ask you not to do something with their mod, it's just common decency to respect that, they did the work not you. I also encourage everyone to boycott any content that violates the creators wishes.
The basic gist of it though was that you do not give up your rights to your mod if you make it public. You only allow Mojang to the right to copy, modify, and adapt your work, and also any third party that they choose. Just like you don't give up your copyright to a Youtube video if you make it public, it's still your work, or if you write a song and put it up on Soundcloud. There are terms of service for using those services, but at the end of the day it's still your work.
Having said that, there is no stipulation in the EULA requiring you to allow modpacks (or anyone else) to distribute your content, Unless Mojang gives permission.
There is nothing stopping you from distributing it however you like, with the exception of selling it. That you can not do. But you can choose what permissions you give to the public. Open Source, Creative Commons, etc.
You might of gotten the wrong impression from this
Because the EULA is written so colloquially, it's hard to tell if it's advice, or a guarantee, but from how I see it, it is advice to content creators who may not understand what it means to give Mojang those permissions. It could end up in third party hands, and you have no say in that if Mojang allow it. I belive this is the case because of this section of the EULA
This section in the Minecraft EULA supports my Opinion that a mod developer's own Eula should be allowed, as it is their work, even though there's no real way of enforcing them, it at least gives content creators a way of covering themselves if their content is stolen for other purposes other than Minecraft. It's just a matter of respect otherwise.
As for
This is true if someone was to seek damages. But most services have a Term of Service that does not allow copyrighted material unless it belongs to the user. A mod developer could theoretically file a copyright infringement notice to a file hosting company if their content was being distributed without their, or Mojang's permission. If it managed to follow through is an entire different story. Certainly be interesting to find out.
I would like to see how the EULA changes in respect to the malicious code, and if the changes will clarify content creator's right to add terms to their service.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumTimeless Modding is kinda dead but idk what to put here now
I occasionally make textures/models for random people. Contributed to: Tinker's Construct, Growthcraft, and Animals+
PixelQuest 2, my new 1.10 RPG/rougelike-inspired modpack, is coming soon!
that sounds about right.
As it very well should have been from the start, I don't know what took so long.
If my above argument holds true, this isn't exactly true. And the EULA hasn't changed since December, so the future changes haven' been made yet. Honestly, it's probably easiest to blanket allow use to everyone bound to the EULA explicitly, and state if it can be used for modpacks, or if pemission is needed. I've made a few private packs before, and I feel that it's fair enough if a Mod Developer asks for a user to give credit where credit is due. Maybe a clause saying that any compilation must give clear credit to any work that's not their own? Time will tell anyway. By the looks of it, seeking permission is just a matter of respecting the Mod Authors work, rather than a requirement.
In a slightly different topic, but still concerning the EULA,
If I was to make a Minecraft parody (not that we have enough of those) and use art assets and such from Minecraft, that is covered by US Fair Use. If I was to make and distribute it from a country where Parody is not considered fair use, would that be considered copyright infringement?
Edit: Spelling and Grammatical errors
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumThe above statement clearly states that Mojang can use your mod however they want. It also states that they can permit other people use it however they want, though I can't see anywhere it says that 3rd parties (everyone except the mod developer and Mojang) can do the same. The license expressly says "you must also let us permit other people", not "you must also permit other people" - note the "let us", which to me implies that Mojang can explicitly permit other people to use the content in any way, but that 3rd parties can't give themselves rights on their own.
"Any tools you write for the Game from scratch belong to you. . Modifications to the Game ("Mods") (including pre-run Mods and in-memory Mods) and plugins for the Game also belong to you and you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you don‘t sell them for money / try to make money from them."
That statement says that "you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you don‘t sell them for money / try to make money from them." To me, it would seem as licensing is something you can do if you can do 'anything'.
This is against fundamental copyright law: (From Wikipedia) "Because copyright law in most countries by default grants copyright holders monopolistic control over their creations, copyright content must be explicitly declared free, usually by the referencing or inclusion of licensing statements from within the work." Creations are, as soon as they are physically stored somehow (drawn on paper, written down, recorded on hard drives/CDs etc.), in a way assigned an "all rights reserved" status automatically. This means you can't re-post it etc. because it infringes on the rights of the person who initially created it, or whoever owns the copyright for that content.
For more information on this, you should check out YouTube's copyright school.
{[ Please note, I am NOT your or anyone else's lawyer. ]}
I AM NOT YOUR PERSONAL MINECRAFT MOD SUPPORT AGENT, SO PLEASE DO NOT PM ME ABOUT PROBLEMATIC MODS THAT ARE NOT MINE. If you're having trouble/crashes with a mod, you'll have better luck resolving it in this forum section than PMing me. If you already made a topic, be patient about responses. If you have troubles with anything non-Minecraft related on your PC, I might be able to help, though, but no promises. Even though I could wish to be, I'm not a wizard.
The license applies when the software is considered "available on or available through [Minecraft]". I think there's no doubt that the majority of Forge mods fit in that category. This gives users the legal right to "copy, modify and adapt" those projects.
Maybe this will lead to a growth in the Modding community as modders share ideas and use (not exploit) each others code for the benefit of players?
Maybe this will lead to the growth of successful platforms that host the content with less restrictions in place?
What Minecraft has as a playerbase is outstanding and i’m sure the players will still give modders the same credit they always had. If any of these modders are really coding for the benefit of the Minecraft community, they’ll see these changes as a stage in opening up modding to a wider audience.
THIS!!!
This is what I personally want! People seem so centered on their mod and their content that the community as a whole becomes more hostile. That is the opposite of what we should be striving for.
I say Flowerchild and Greg are next luke.
My thoughts were leaning in that direction...
Are you sure? Because from my (limited) understanding of implied clauses in contracts, it must be obvious to both parties, law, or customary, none which seem to apply. And in the tone Mojang wrote their EULA, they clarify everything colloquially, so this is pretty much murky water here. I would like to add that I usually work with copyrights for music, so this is a bit different, so excuse my ignorance if its painfully obvious.
You're very right in saying it's murky water in how colloquially the EULA is written. The amount of interpretations possible makes things like this very difficult to discuss but I do think SXScarecrow has hit the nail on the head in saying that Mojang is giving everyone who follows EULA permission to use, copy, modify and adapt mods made publicly available as we are already using the mods freely.
Copying, modifying, and adapting are all similar enough to safely say that they must fall under the same conditions of "use" in that Mojang is giving the end users the ability to copy, modify and adapt mods in the same way we are able to use the mods made for minecraft.
If my above argument holds true, this isn't exactly true. And the EULA hasn't changed since December, so the future changes haven' been made yet. Honestly, it's probably easiest to blanket allow use to everyone bound to the EULA explicitly, and state if it can be used for modpacks, or if pemission is needed. I've made a few private packs before, and I feel that it's fair enough if a Mod Developer asks for a user to give credit where credit is due. Maybe a clause saying that any compilation must give clear credit to any work that's not their own? Time will tell anyway. By the looks of it, seeking permission is just a matter of respecting the Mod Authors work, rather than a requirement.
I share your thoughts that the EULA needs to be cleared up in it's wording and things like this made more concrete so it does not need to be debated. But as it stands things like this need to be addressed. We cannot stand idle letting modders use malicious code to soil others experience. It is not right that they should hold such power over public content with people who just want to enjoy the mod.
Here's my nitpick that sets my stance so anti copyright. Note that this is my personal opinion on what I perceive happens.
Now lets say a mod packer looks at mod 'A', a very small and under appreciated mod, and says: "Oh wow! This is cool!" and puts mod 'A' into their modpack without consulting the mod author. Modpack then gets thousands of hits with mod 'A' being one of the best parts of the pack. The amount of recognition the mod has received grows tenfold due to the modpack. The mod author gets mad at the modpack author for using the mod without their permission.
Do you see the problem here?
Before you say that this has never happened, it has, does, and will continue to happen unless we stop this modder ego. Copyrights seem to be the root of this problem as once a mod is popular, it HAS to be because of the modder's superb coding ability and cannot be because some modpack maker made a good coupling of mods.
We need more people like JakJ who don't give a damn on what happens with their mod. Sure people may have outright copied his code and published it as their own, but we as players can see through this knowing who the real talent is. Really, if I made a mod and someone did that, it would mean that someone thought my mod worth something. Same goes for when people include mods in mod packs.
Modding a game used to be about having fun and sharing that fun with others. In most games that's still what it is, a fun thing. But in Minecraft it has become so much more egocentric and in the egocentrics, it has grown carnivorous to the point of fights like this. This should not be happening, modders should be collaborating for the good of the community, not for the internet fame that comes with a good mod.
I'd sure love to live in the world you live in, where the theft of one's ideas and work is just a casual and completely acceptable happening.You seem to be on the side of the fence that lets you do whatever you want with material that doesn't belong to you, and that you don't even want to consider asking for, seemingly just because it's inconvenient for you.
That they made, with their time and their skills.
Honestly, I don't need to elaborate on my views here, because they've already been brought up in previous posts. Mojang's EULA doesn't say that mods are property of everyone, to be used by everyone as they see fit.
And if they add a section to the EULA stating that "malicious" preventative code is a no-go, I hope every modder out there finds a more elegant way to prevent those too lazy to ask, from reaping benefits of work they had no part in.
How hard is it to ask? Since when did asking become some sort of internet-cultural taboo?
EDIT: Removed formatting, after baseless accusations