I also wanted to ask you guys what you thought about the following proposed rule:
Agree with concept.
I wouldn't have mobs place blocks for the moat house though unless they disappeared in the morning. Imagine how much time would have to be spent when you start building a large base with many crops and animals inspecting your perimeter for potential new access points. I think perhaps a better solution I think would just be to make the mobs ignore water currents. Fix the AI a little so they can dig up creating their own stairs.
I also think there is more elegent design solutions to the floating roofs and bases. Avernite suggested in an earlier post a simple check when you place the block to make sure it wasn't floating. But I think ultimately decided against it because he didn't want nature blocks working different to place blocked. However I think its a good idea. You could do a check so that the block would have to be connected to the ground at some point. I.e. for every block that is placed it would check to make sure that within a 4 block radius, there was a block tile that was connected to it, and also went down. This way you'd never be able to create floating structures, or huge long roofs with no support beams/arches.
Flaming skeletons are definitely a sweet idea for taking out the early floating wood bases. I'd also suggest pickaxe throwing zombies that can cause a cave in when hitting the base of floating stone/brick any kind of floating base. Assuming Avernite didn't want to go with the block placing thing.
Overall I think you hit at some real issues that take away from the spirit of this game.
I really like suggestions to all blocks having minor weaknesses. I would change clay from being randomly affected by gravity (this is having inconsistent rules, as referred to in your video) to:
Being dissolved slowly in rain
Being flattened out when walking on it enough
This basically means clay block would be like a snow block = 8 layers of clay. Rain slowly dissolves each layer just like heat thaws snow. This wouldn’t mean adopting snow’s crafting recipes, BTW. Just allow to replenish partially dissolved clay block by right clicking with a clay ball (restores 2 thin slices). Or we could do 4 layers and have that ball restore 1 layer. But if the clay block is gone, you have nothing to right click.
So that solves roofs. And walking on it would mean that floors would decay and you would have to invest in other blocks to walk on. There is still some issue with clay blocks being used to support other blocks (like sand walls of your floating hut) so that could be solved with gravity-affected blocks decaying the clay block as well, as though as it’s being walked on.
I don’t think we need to worry about hardened clay / sandstone / bricks or stone / stone bricks floating and creating perfect shelters. They’re expensive to get and a comfortably sized house means many weeks of work. Maaaybe some kind of toxic moss could be growing on the underside of player-crafted blocks, causing it to drop (when moss is mature) as though as it’s affected by gravity. So if you want to service your floor, you need to climb up every so often or not build so high up.
And yes, I think zombies and ghouls should be able to dig up 1 block.
The food side is being managed well through nutrition etc, but water is completely overlooked, how about a thirst meter where you get thirsty at a varying rate depending on what your doing. If you get too thirsty it could have an effect on your hunger rate, or satiation rate. Could also be biome specific, live in the desert, get thirsty faster, swamps not so much.
Yes, I have long advocated for the addition of water. I missed that feature from the original Survivalism 1.7.3 (Beta) mod. I think for the meter you would have to be given 10 tear drops regardless of your level. You can right click water to drink by hand. Drinking in this way replenishes 1/2 of a tear drop per mouse click. The Mod added a water skin being 4 leather in a diamond shape so like bowls you wouldn't get it until you had crafting bench. It had a little green progress bar underneath that would show you how much was left and it was good for 2 to 3 full replenishments of your thirst bar. There were 3 pictures for the water skin, full, 1/2 full and empty.
The mod also had an energy meter with 10 lightening bolts that would deplete with hunger and thirst and gradually make you move slower.
If you think about it, no house has a brick roof haha
Brick walls + a timber roof = logical house
It also gives a really nice consistent result with the rules we are talking about.
- Bricks are strong but can still be can be attacked by ghouls..(but they are very slow)
- The roof is susceptible to fire, however a well designed house prevents flaming arrows from touching it
- together they form a zombie proof shelter
But what about ghouls!
- if walls are made extra high then each time a block is dug a new brick block falls into its place
- Tall walls could survive multiple days of sustained attack before being breached
- this number of ghouls would only be seen in a difficult biome so no need to worry about the problem becoming over powered
It is interesting to consider how house designs would look, for instance a two story home is much safer than a single story...all sorts of fun game play is unlocked with a pretty simple and logical set of rules.
Clay is sticky so it makes a good exception and it seems fine to make it float, it's pretty reasonable to imagine you can stick clay to a wall and it stays there. Clay in the rain becomes soft and falls to the ground.
Perhaps sheltered clay dries out if it gets no water at all, this means it gets gravity at exactly a week after it is put up. Maybe it could even crack a little as it dries out (How cool is that)...this is at the least predictable and fair...it could also make for some fun timers.
I certainly don't have all the answers, I am just really excited about the bigger picture that every building block has a has a weakness in some manner.
Are mobs stlil able to "phase through" a wall just as it is beginning to fall after one of it's 2 bottom blocks get broken ?
If yes then making sand walls more than 2 high is not very useful. Well, at least that way the gap will close back on itself automatically afterwards, so you will have to deal only 1 or 2 zombies, instead of every other mod around suddenly rushing in through the gap.
Yes,
I have long advocated for the addition of water. I missed that feature from the original Survivalism 1.7.3 (Beta) mod. I think for the meter you would have to be given 10 tear drops regardless of your level. You can right click water to drink by hand. Drinking in this way replenishes1/2 of a tear drop per mouse click. The Mod added a water skin being 4 leather in a diamond shape so like bowls you wouldn't get it until you had crafting bench. It had a little green progress bar underneath that would show you how much was left and it was good for 2 to 3 full replenishments of your thirst bar. There were 3 pictures for the water skin, full, 1/2 full and empty.
The mod also had an energy meter with 10 lightening bolts that would deplete with hunger and thirst
and gradually make you move slower.
I think a huge portion of your day time is already spent searching out food. While I would kind of enjoy a thirst mechanic. You would have to reduce the hunger amount by the same portion or more of the time it would take to search out water. Otherwise you eventually end up spending the entire free dat time just eating and drinking and not getting anything else done. Then you also have to carry around water skins using up inventory space when there is already so little. I definitely would be against having to click 20 times to get a full water bar back. That's ridiculously tedious for the sake of being annoying.
tldr, I'm for thirst, but it would mean having to tone down hunger or other grind mechanics in order to balance the difficulty and the sheer amount of grind. (which there is enough of grind mechanics already. See mining gravel, placing it back down again, mining it, placing it back down again, mining it, placing it back down again)
Bug report: Shift+Clicking meat from Small Clay Oven doesn’t award experience. Just lost 4 cooked pork worth of exp. :/
Edit: Sorry, the exp was there, just outside of my tree shelter (pillbox design with oven being a part of the pillbox wal). When I broke a block to emerge during day, all exp orbs were consumed.
Are mobs stlil able to "phase through" a wall just as it is beginning to fall after one of it's 2 bottom blocks get broken ?
If yes then making sand walls more than 2 high is not very useful. Well, at least that way the gap will close back on itself automatically afterwards, so you will have to deal only 1 or 2 zombies, instead of every other mod around suddenly rushing in through the gap.
Yeah, this also works with a player who is holding forward while mining. Sometimes you kill yourself by walking under the block you just mined before the ones above it fall down.
Hey man, if you could upload your resource pack zip files with all the modified stuff already pre done online somewhere like dropbox etc. I'd love you forever! I love mite, but that fact that you can't use it with shaders/other resource packs makes it like 1/2 as good as it could be. The resource pack should be small enough you could host it directly somewhere without having to torrent.
Hi-Resolution Resource Pack for R120 and previous versions.
Man alive I have a whole new respect for people that create texture packs from scratch. I spent about 8 hours today just creating some of the MITE tools using the base Iron Tool from the original texture pack. I have not done the textures for any of the items unique to MITE except for the Hatchet which I was able to make by modifying the Axe, the Onion that I created from scratch in Paint.net, and the furnaces that off of the Cobblestone Furnace from the texture pack. I am no artist so please don't disrespect my Onions!
The Mithril tools kind of look like Diamond ones so it is fortunate that Diamond tools don't exist in MITE.
Are mobs stlil able to "phase through" a wall just as it is beginning to fall after one of it's 2 bottom blocks get broken ?
I don't know, i haven't seen it in a fair while, I am using a lot of sand in my caving these days and so far a zombie hasn't phased through....but that said I tend to start running when this happens
After a lot of changes. At first, I will have a clay oven. But how to get the sandstone oven? I know we can use two sticks to burn four sands, they will become sandstone, but it's not possible for clay oven cause we cannot put the sand inside. we can only use flint pickaxe to get sandstones directly.
Also, 4 gravels cannot be crafted to be cobblestone. OMG it's really very hard.
I want to know, am I right about the above information.?
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think you can only use a flint axe to get the sandstone oven. 1 flint axe gives just enough for the oven. I'm not that far through my play since the changes so I'm not sure about the cobblestone. I was wondering this myself actually. It would be annoying if you have to use your entire first copper pickaxe to mine enough cobblestone for a furnace to smelt ores then save up another 27 copper ingots to actually mine some ore.
At first, I will have a clay oven. But how to get the sandstone oven? I know we can use two sticks to burn four sands, they will become sandstone, but it's not possible for clay oven cause we cannot put the sand inside.
Use your Small Clay Oven to smelt Clay Balls (those round-ish items) using sticks / saplings / manure to form bricks (items). Then craft 4 bricks to form a Hardened Clay Block. Use a Crafting Bench to make a Hardened Clay Oven (8 blocks in the O pattern like you expect). Then you can use that to smelt 4 Sand into 1 Sandstone using Heat 1 fuel.
Last time I heard, Hardened Oven Claycould also be used to make Charcoal from Logs. I’m honestly no longer sure what a Sandstone Oven is useful for.
Hi-Resolution Resource Pack for R120 and previous versions.
Man alive I have a whole new respect for people that create texture packs from scratch. I spent about 8 hours today just creating some of the MITE tools using the base Iron Tool from the original texture pack. I have not done the textures for any of the items unique to MITE except for the Hatchet which I was able to make by modifying the Axe, the Onion that I created from scratch in Paint.net, and the furnaces that off of the Cobblestone Furnace from the texture pack. I am no artist so please don't disrespect my Onions!
The Mithril tools kind of look like Diamond ones so it is fortunate that Diamond tools don't exist in MITE.
(*) Untested and couldn't find Sandstone harvest cost in reference file for axe tool.
There are a few potential problems:
- Natural Sandstone can be hard to find. You need Desert or Ocean biome nearby (for the wide sand beaches).
- Lots of work. You will spend a lot more effort grinding gravel to get the Flint Axe, than on breaking the Sandstone.
Later on, when you already have a Tier 2 Oven, you can use 8 smelting steps to cook 32 Sand into 8 Sandstone, cutting down the needed amount of work and resources noticeably.
Total Cost : 4/3 Flint Axes (*) (**)
(*) I assumed that wooden shovels are used to avoid being forced to fall back to grinding by hand. This means an overhead of 60% Flint Axe wood output to make 12 shovels (average) to reach next Flint Axe. Grinding by hand, while seemingly consuming less resources, is actually quite costlier in terms of total time and food needed. By hand is 4 times harder&slower than with a tool, but using shovels means you get only 40% wood output usability, so overall doing grinding by hand is 1.6 times harder&slower than when using wooden shovels.
(**) I also assumed nearly spent shovels are saved up as fuel. This ultimately saves a bit of wood. Just compare :
- Situation A: Keeping nearly-spent shovels as fuel:
That is a no-brainer, really. The only exception is if you have enough food and gravel is really hard to find, then use the extra time and hunger to do it by hand, preserving your wood for more important things.
Path #2 - Large Clay Oven
Harvest 8 Clay blocks (32 Balls) --> Smelt 4 per Hardened Clay --> Craft Large Clay Oven
This path is much easier.
- Clay is found relatively easily in many biomes.
- Clay is half as hard to harvest than Sandstone (40 Durability instead of 80).
You also need only a mere 2 Wooden shovels, which means you need only 1 wood Log, plus a reasonable 8 smelts (doing 4 bricks at a time), preferably from nearly-spent shovels from the gravel grind you have to do anyway to get nuggets.
Total Cost : 1/4 Flint Axe (*)
(*) Assuming gravel grind is done using wooden shovels and always keeping nearly-spent ones as fuel.
That is a no-brainer, really. The only exception is if you have enough food and gravel is really hard to find, then use the extra time and hunger to do it by hand, preserving your wood for more important things.
is the only way to get a cobblestone furnace now by mining cobblestone with a pickaxe?
I think even a single TNT is sufficient to give you enough cobble for a furnace. Given the 0-2 gunpowder drop rate this means yeah definitely try to kill a few Creepers. That will save you a nice fraction of that 1st pickaxe's Durability.
Agree with concept.
I wouldn't have mobs place blocks for the moat house though unless they disappeared in the morning. Imagine how much time would have to be spent when you start building a large base with many crops and animals inspecting your perimeter for potential new access points. I think perhaps a better solution I think would just be to make the mobs ignore water currents. Fix the AI a little so they can dig up creating their own stairs.
I also think there is more elegent design solutions to the floating roofs and bases. Avernite suggested in an earlier post a simple check when you place the block to make sure it wasn't floating. But I think ultimately decided against it because he didn't want nature blocks working different to place blocked. However I think its a good idea. You could do a check so that the block would have to be connected to the ground at some point. I.e. for every block that is placed it would check to make sure that within a 4 block radius, there was a block tile that was connected to it, and also went down. This way you'd never be able to create floating structures, or huge long roofs with no support beams/arches.
Flaming skeletons are definitely a sweet idea for taking out the early floating wood bases. I'd also suggest pickaxe throwing zombies that can cause a cave in when hitting the base of floating stone/brick any kind of floating base. Assuming Avernite didn't want to go with the block placing thing.
Overall I think you hit at some real issues that take away from the spirit of this game.
it seems like there is no reason why the two play styles are mutually exclusive
Play style 1 (Ouatcheur)
- can build his first home and keep on expanding it
- he can use the nether to travel to hard biomes whenever he so desires.
- If pigmen did not spawn above rails or near redstone torches then amazing transport systems become possible.
Playstyle 2 (Gimme PAIN!)
- Fonglet and those of of who wish to try and live in very hard biomes can also do so without impact on anyone
- While the option exists to use the nether we take advantage of some farming perks in advanced regions
- Better mining also makes it worth the extra risk and danger
The system we are talking about does not force a game play style on any one! is its a very very cool feature.
I'd really like to know what avernite (ALL HAIL) is thinking.
Oldman.
I really like suggestions to all blocks having minor weaknesses. I would change clay from being randomly affected by gravity (this is having inconsistent rules, as referred to in your video) to:
This basically means clay block would be like a snow block = 8 layers of clay. Rain slowly dissolves each layer just like heat thaws snow. This wouldn’t mean adopting snow’s crafting recipes, BTW. Just allow to replenish partially dissolved clay block by right clicking with a clay ball (restores 2 thin slices). Or we could do 4 layers and have that ball restore 1 layer. But if the clay block is gone, you have nothing to right click.
So that solves roofs. And walking on it would mean that floors would decay and you would have to invest in other blocks to walk on. There is still some issue with clay blocks being used to support other blocks (like sand walls of your floating hut) so that could be solved with gravity-affected blocks decaying the clay block as well, as though as it’s being walked on.
I don’t think we need to worry about hardened clay / sandstone / bricks or stone / stone bricks floating and creating perfect shelters. They’re expensive to get and a comfortably sized house means many weeks of work. Maaaybe some kind of toxic moss could be growing on the underside of player-crafted blocks, causing it to drop (when moss is mature) as though as it’s affected by gravity. So if you want to service your floor, you need to climb up every so often or not build so high up.
And yes, I think zombies and ghouls should be able to dig up 1 block.
http://reddit.com/r/MITE
Yes, I have long advocated for the addition of water. I missed that feature from the original Survivalism 1.7.3 (Beta) mod. I think for the meter you would have to be given 10 tear drops regardless of your level. You can right click water to drink by hand. Drinking in this way replenishes 1/2 of a tear drop per mouse click. The Mod added a water skin being 4 leather in a diamond shape so like bowls you wouldn't get it until you had crafting bench. It had a little green progress bar underneath that would show you how much was left and it was good for 2 to 3 full replenishments of your thirst bar. There were 3 pictures for the water skin, full, 1/2 full and empty.
The mod also had an energy meter with 10 lightening bolts that would deplete with hunger and thirst and gradually make you move slower.
If you think about it, no house has a brick roof haha
Brick walls + a timber roof = logical house
It also gives a really nice consistent result with the rules we are talking about.
- Bricks are strong but can still be can be attacked by ghouls..(but they are very slow)
- The roof is susceptible to fire, however a well designed house prevents flaming arrows from touching it
- together they form a zombie proof shelter
But what about ghouls!
- if walls are made extra high then each time a block is dug a new brick block falls into its place
- Tall walls could survive multiple days of sustained attack before being breached
- this number of ghouls would only be seen in a difficult biome so no need to worry about the problem becoming over powered
It is interesting to consider how house designs would look, for instance a two story home is much safer than a single story...all sorts of fun game play is unlocked with a pretty simple and logical set of rules.
Clay is sticky so it makes a good exception and it seems fine to make it float, it's pretty reasonable to imagine you can stick clay to a wall and it stays there. Clay in the rain becomes soft and falls to the ground.
Perhaps sheltered clay dries out if it gets no water at all, this means it gets gravity at exactly a week after it is put up. Maybe it could even crack a little as it dries out (How cool is that)...this is at the least predictable and fair...it could also make for some fun timers.
I certainly don't have all the answers, I am just really excited about the bigger picture that every building block has a has a weakness in some manner.
Oldman.
Are mobs stlil able to "phase through" a wall just as it is beginning to fall after one of it's 2 bottom blocks get broken ?
If yes then making sand walls more than 2 high is not very useful. Well, at least that way the gap will close back on itself automatically afterwards, so you will have to deal only 1 or 2 zombies, instead of every other mod around suddenly rushing in through the gap.
I think a huge portion of your day time is already spent searching out food. While I would kind of enjoy a thirst mechanic. You would have to reduce the hunger amount by the same portion or more of the time it would take to search out water. Otherwise you eventually end up spending the entire free dat time just eating and drinking and not getting anything else done. Then you also have to carry around water skins using up inventory space when there is already so little. I definitely would be against having to click 20 times to get a full water bar back. That's ridiculously tedious for the sake of being annoying.
tldr, I'm for thirst, but it would mean having to tone down hunger or other grind mechanics in order to balance the difficulty and the sheer amount of grind. (which there is enough of grind mechanics already. See mining gravel, placing it back down again, mining it, placing it back down again, mining it, placing it back down again)
Bug report: Shift+Clicking meat from Small Clay Oven doesn’t award experience. Just lost 4 cooked pork worth of exp. :/
Edit: Sorry, the exp was there, just outside of my tree shelter (pillbox design with oven being a part of the pillbox wal). When I broke a block to emerge during day, all exp orbs were consumed.
http://reddit.com/r/MITE
Yeah, this also works with a player who is holding forward while mining. Sometimes you kill yourself by walking under the block you just mined before the ones above it fall down.
Man alive I have a whole new respect for people that create texture packs from scratch. I spent about 8 hours today just creating some of the MITE tools using the base Iron Tool from the original texture pack. I have not done the textures for any of the items unique to MITE except for the Hatchet which I was able to make by modifying the Axe, the Onion that I created from scratch in Paint.net, and the furnaces that off of the Cobblestone Furnace from the texture pack. I am no artist so please don't disrespect my Onions!
The Mithril tools kind of look like Diamond ones so it is fortunate that Diamond tools don't exist in MITE.
Download the texture pack here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m546ytdy2ow24f5/MITE Resource Pack 1.6.4.zip?dl=0
Much appreciated man
I don't know, i haven't seen it in a fair while, I am using a lot of sand in my caving these days and so far a zombie hasn't phased through....but that said I tend to start running when this happens
Oldman
HELP!HELP!HELP!
After a lot of changes. At first, I will have a clay oven. But how to get the sandstone oven? I know we can use two sticks to burn four sands, they will become sandstone, but it's not possible for clay oven cause we cannot put the sand inside. we can only use flint pickaxe to get sandstones directly.
Also, 4 gravels cannot be crafted to be cobblestone. OMG it's really very hard.
I want to know, am I right about the above information.?
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think you can only use a flint axe to get the sandstone oven. 1 flint axe gives just enough for the oven. I'm not that far through my play since the changes so I'm not sure about the cobblestone. I was wondering this myself actually. It would be annoying if you have to use your entire first copper pickaxe to mine enough cobblestone for a furnace to smelt ores then save up another 27 copper ingots to actually mine some ore.
Use your Small Clay Oven to smelt Clay Balls (those round-ish items) using sticks / saplings / manure to form bricks (items). Then craft 4 bricks to form a Hardened Clay Block. Use a Crafting Bench to make a Hardened Clay Oven (8 blocks in the O pattern like you expect). Then you can use that to smelt 4 Sand into 1 Sandstone using Heat 1 fuel.
Last time I heard, Hardened Oven Claycould also be used to make Charcoal from Logs. I’m honestly no longer sure what a Sandstone Oven is useful for.
And yes, you can no longer craft Cobblestone.
http://reddit.com/r/MITE
Good job! Atleast MiTE won't look scarier than it is now... XD
Can I also smelt ores in Hardened Clay Oven? And I can get sandstone by only using a flint axe, am I correct?
No, ores can be smelt in Cobblestone Furnace and above.
Yes, sandstone can be harvested with Flint Hatchet or Axe too.
http://reddit.com/r/MITE
You have 2 paths to reach Tier 2 Smelting :
Path #1 - Sandstone Oven
Hatchet or Axe --> Harvest 8 Sandstone directly --> Craft Sandstone Oven
1 Flint Axe = 10 wood Logs (120 Durability each)
1 Flint Axe = 15 Sandstone (80 Durability each) (*)
(*) Untested and couldn't find Sandstone harvest cost in reference file for axe tool.
There are a few potential problems:
- Natural Sandstone can be hard to find. You need Desert or Ocean biome nearby (for the wide sand beaches).
- Lots of work. You will spend a lot more effort grinding gravel to get the Flint Axe, than on breaking the Sandstone.
Later on, when you already have a Tier 2 Oven, you can use 8 smelting steps to cook 32 Sand into 8 Sandstone, cutting down the needed amount of work and resources noticeably.
Total Cost : 4/3 Flint Axes (*) (**)
(*) I assumed that wooden shovels are used to avoid being forced to fall back to grinding by hand. This means an overhead of 60% Flint Axe wood output to make 12 shovels (average) to reach next Flint Axe. Grinding by hand, while seemingly consuming less resources, is actually quite costlier in terms of total time and food needed. By hand is 4 times harder&slower than with a tool, but using shovels means you get only 40% wood output usability, so overall doing grinding by hand is 1.6 times harder&slower than when using wooden shovels.
(**) I also assumed nearly spent shovels are saved up as fuel. This ultimately saves a bit of wood. Just compare :
- Situation A: Keeping nearly-spent shovels as fuel:
14 Planks = 7 Shovels = 42 Gravel Breaks + 7 Smelts
vs
- Situation B: Using shovels all the way and using some other wood as fuel:
14 Planks = 6 Shovels + 2 Planks = 42 Gravel Breaks + 4 Smelts
And before Tier 2 Oven, Situation B is even worse:
14 Planks = 6 Shovels + 4 Sticks = 42 Gravel Breaks + 2 Smelts
That is a no-brainer, really. The only exception is if you have enough food and gravel is really hard to find, then use the extra time and hunger to do it by hand, preserving your wood for more important things.
Path #2 - Large Clay Oven
Harvest 8 Clay blocks (32 Balls) --> Smelt 4 per Hardened Clay --> Craft Large Clay Oven
This path is much easier.
- Clay is found relatively easily in many biomes.
- Clay is half as hard to harvest than Sandstone (40 Durability instead of 80).
You also need only a mere 2 Wooden shovels, which means you need only 1 wood Log, plus a reasonable 8 smelts (doing 4 bricks at a time), preferably from nearly-spent shovels from the gravel grind you have to do anyway to get nuggets.
Total Cost : 1/4 Flint Axe (*)
(*) Assuming gravel grind is done using wooden shovels and always keeping nearly-spent ones as fuel.
is the only way to get a cobblestone furnace now by mining cobblestone with a pickaxe?
I think even a single TNT is sufficient to give you enough cobble for a furnace. Given the 0-2 gunpowder drop rate this means yeah definitely try to kill a few Creepers. That will save you a nice fraction of that 1st pickaxe's Durability.