Minecraft Forums

*stretches the old digits*

As far as a research system is concerned, as someone further back pointed out talking about "once you learn something it should always work that way" and "randomizing recipes"

you could always use a system to where the recipe would remain the same, but you would not even be able to use that recipe, i.e. it would be uncraftable, until you researched it. basically it would just go through a system of (check has user researched spell=true/false) if true then you could use it, false you couldn't. shouldn't be too complicated in terms of coding as far as i can tell. not sure what your current idea is though Mithion, you may already be thinking this lol

Can't wait for 1.4.5 either way

Petator, the problem with your idea is that the mod would have to be completely reworked in order for such a thing to happen. Possibly when both Ars Magica and Thaumcraft 3 both go open source, there will be some very talented person willing to write out such a mod, but as of now that is not possible.

Mithion, I believe that if you use the mod api from TC3, in Ars Magica, then the Ars Magica mod will require the TC3 mod api to be installed.

Quote from UberWaffe

-snip-

Unless Ars Magica takes a serious direction change, I doubt it will lose its uniqueness.

Personally I feel the research system can add far more good than bad.
Especially since it provides an astronomically important gameplay element: "Pacing the user"
Since this will get rather winded, spoiler:

What do you mean "Pacing the user"?
Simply put, making the user enjoy all the content, as opposed to just letting them rush for the end-game content.

What? Wooden/Stone/Iron/Diamond equipment already does that!

Well, then it may just be me. But typically my game goes something like:

1x Wooden pickaxe, used to get a bunch of cobble. Never again after that.
Many stone pickaxes, used for general mining until I get a bunch of iron.
1x Iron pickaxe. For getting redstone and diamonds.
1x Diamond pickaxe. For getting obsidian.
1x IC2 Diamond Drill. Which is forever.
etc. etc.

How many wooden shovels/axes/hoes do I make? Usually none.
Other than a short stay at the stone tier, there is no other tier except the highest that gets used much.
So all that content, all those various tools, are essentially wasted space and time.

The TC3 research system, because it is somewhat random, and can define a complex tree with multiple inter-dependencies, can help pace the user however much you want to pace them by.
Want them to be able to skip through tiers quickly? Cool, linear tree with little inter-dependencies.
Want them to linger a bit longer in each tier and enjoy all the content? Cool, wider tree with more dependencies.

So what? Tech mods already do that with recipes that need processed items.

As in, in IC2 you need a compressor to make alloy plates, to make advanced machines chassis, to make the advanced machines.

Sure, but it is still rather linear, and worse than that, you have to build the said machines and use them to make the better recipes.
And... you have a tech-mod feel. You are now dependent on infrastructure.

But with a research system. That doesn't have to be true.
It easily can be, but doesn't have to.

You can easily make the research system and higher level magic not require any infrastructure, but simply benefit from it.
Take the TC3 warded jars or alembics from the "Let's play" videos.
I don't need them to store essence and do magic, but they help.

So it isn't too hard to keep the "infrastructure" feel to a minimum.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that you could simply make unlocked research provide innate bonuses to your wizard as opposed to more stuff to make.

Okay. How would Ars Magica benefit from this?

Well, let us take a quick glance at the dig spell.
Remember people complaining it made it way too easy to dig obsidian, diamonds and whatnot?

Sidenote: I like the variable mana use on the dig, this is just an example of what can be added.
Well, if a research system was in place, one possible solution would have been to make dig only dig dirt and stone until you finish the following researches:

Punching Iron
"After an in depth study of ores, earth, magical kinetics, and squirrel teeth. You know understand how to cast your dig spell in such a manner that it can dig iron ore as well."
I.e. your dig spell (not a new one, the same one you already have) can now dig iron ore.

Squeezing blood out of stone
"Further researching the intricacies of magical digging and that awful tasting sparkly red dirt that fizzles when sprinkled on your soup, you have now discovered that if you add a little spiral twist when casting your dig magic spell, you can now use it to mine redstone."

Cracking Diamonds
"You stubbed your toe and screamed so loudly the windows shattered. Further research into sound has yielded a way to mine diamonds with your dig spell/"

Etc. Etc.

You could even add research that extends the dig range, or slightly reduces mana cost, or whatever.

Why make a firebolt and a fireball spell?
Make just one that is upgradeable through research! Extra explosive range, faster casting, auto-fry bacon! Whatever!
And you could make the research scale up the mana cost slightly, to help scale along with the player's (hopefully) increasing magic level.

And, as mentioned before, you can use it to pace your players.

So that is essentially my position on it, and why I feel adding it won't lose the magic feel of the mod.

... Okay, so maybe I panicked a little. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe TC was more less tedious than I was making it out. I dunno, just didn't feel right when I read it... =_=;

Pacing? Awww... but I liek speed. Zzzzzoom... :B

Quote from Bellaabzug21

Mithion, I believe that if you use the mod api from TC3, in Ars Magica, then the Ars Magica mod will require the TC3 mod api to be installed.

Not true, Bellaabzug. For example, if you open the zip for Railcraft you'll see the API's of Buildcraft, Forestry, IC2 and Universal Electricity, as well as its own. I currently do not have IC2 or Universal Electricity installed, yet Railcraft functions just fine.

<-- currently running a arsmagica 1.3.2 beta server if you would like to join please PM me

keep up the great work awesome mod mithion!!!!

Quote from Mithion

I actually was contacted by John Nephew (CEO of Atlas Games - owners of the Ars Magica Tabletop )about the name Ars Magica. He asked that I change it, as it is their copyright, and the mod didn't really show any similarities other than the name.

John is a really cool guy, and we emailed back and forth a few times, and long story short, I have full copyright license to the Ars Magica tabletop game and all of its content, provided I meet certain criteria (which is why this update is taking so long). He even mentioned that he was gonna give minecraft a try too and "...see what all the fuss is about"! So no worries

This is so awesome to hear, I am quite glad. I just wanted to drop that here before going back to playing

@UberWaffe:

The problem is, I think IndustrialCraft and mods like that tend to unbalance the game as it was.

The general progression of myself in Minecraft vanilla:

- Get wood for tools, and either get stone enough for a Furnace or Coal.
- If you have Coal, then make torches. If not, "cook" some Charcoal up for torches.
- Get a shelter up with a bed ASAP.
- Begin work on a sustainable food source. Wheat fields, and a farm with some kind of animal meat.
- Begin searching caves nearby. If no caves are nearby, dig out my own.
- Once I have enough iron to make a bucket, do so. Very important.
- Once I have a half stack of iron, begin making tools and a sword. Durability is the reasoning for the sword, not damage.
- Delve deeply through a dug shaft, and try finding Diamond/Gold/Redstone. Lapis is necessary for Ars Magica features.
- Once I have a good foothold, get lava in buckets and mold Obsidian into a portal.

I have never gotten appreciably farther than that. The Nether always kicks me around hard.

In Ars Magica, progression takes a sideways turn. Instead of cave delving, I surface explore and try never to be too far from a bed as nighttime is much more dangerous for the unprepared wandering the landscape. (Hecates and Dark Magi and Creepers oh my!) . . . part of my progression is to start building a stock of runes from the early available materials so I can at least get Growth. I'm still looking for the recipe for Sense Energy for my nexus work but. ..

My one successful Ars Magica game so far has revolved around getting a Nexus going and then feeding it so I could begin building a more elaborate and secure base to do my work in.

Quote from 0AngelicDirt0

Pacing? Awww... but I liek speed. Zzzzzoom... :B

Don't we all?
But we do tend to miss out on most of scenery along the way when we go that fast.
(I.e. Miss a lot of the other contents of the mods.)

Quote from Kereminde

-snip-

Oh, no question about that.

I was merely trying to explain why I think a lot of content (vanilla and mods) gets missed, or used only as a step to the next tier. Rather than actively used.

This got rather winded as well, so... spoiler... again...


The Ars Magica's explore system does offer a great deal of pacing, but usually only the first time (or couple of times if you are slow like me) around.

A nice crossover between thaumcraft 3 and ars magica would be being able to research spells in the tc3 research table, and to have a block that charges your nexus from the local aura. More advanced crossovers would be to be able to use your ars magica mana pool as a wand, and ars magica spells that do things in tc3 like imbuing your tc3 golems with different abilities or charging the local aura with your mana pool.

I think that this would keep the uniqueness of both mods, and the ability to use them in tandem.

Edit: yeah, I mean that after you install both AM and TC3 you install a 3rd mod that adds the crossover components.

Edit2: If both APIs are released, I would be interested is working on a crossover mod like this.

Parsec, I think putting that sort of crossover in the mod itself would be a mistake as it would integrate them too much to really be stand-alone. However, that would be a great crossover mod, if Ars even gets an API. Azanor has said the API for Thaumcraft is coming, so using the APIs from both mods someone could make a crossover addon that does what you're suggesting.

Great Mod!
Me and my friend downloaded it on the weekend and played like 4 hours on LAN. It was really well done.The only bad part was when an Ice Rune caused my computer to crash, other than that really fun!
Remus

Quote from RemusofReem

Great Mod!
Me and my friend downloaded it on the weekend and played like 4 hours on LAN. It was really well done.The only bad part was when an Ice Rune caused my computer to crash, other than that really fun!
Remus

Could you specify what was happening at the time of crash? One simply does not have their computer crash by an ice rune.

Quote from Stiix

Could you specify what was happening at the time of crash? One simply does not have their computer crash by an ice rune.

I simply placed an ice rune and walked over it to test it out, next thing I knew the game had crashed. When I logged back in I found the game had been corrupted and kept on getting error messages. Luckily I had backed everything up. Interestingly ice runes worked perfectly fine after that!

Quote from Mithion

Must...resist...urge to make..."one does not simply"...meme...photo

lol i was thinking the exact same thing

Hey I was just wondering what the Affinity Tome: General does? I know other tomes reduce the costs of some spells, but this tome didn't seem to do anything when I used it.

Quote from Maoyu

It resets your Affinity back to Neutral (General) if you used another before. So all spells will use their default amount of mana and agents.

Thank you. Looks like I wasted mine lol.

Hmm...
Unexpected error

java.lang.ClassCastException: mithion.arsmagica.entities.EntitySpellProjectile cannot be cast to jw
at asv.a(NetClientHandler.java:750)
at bk.a(Packet24MobSpawn.java:137)
at ba.b(MemoryConnection.java:78)
at asv.d(NetClientHandler.java:104)
at atd.b(WorldClient.java:71)
at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.l(Minecraft.java:1790)
at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.J(Minecraft.java:845)
at net.minecraft.client.Minecraft.run(Minecraft.java:775)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

I believe you added an entity that cannot be loaded and was possibly a part of the summon system, yet it has spawned... I have determined using biome spawn control, that pets+ or was it pets++, one of these is not compatible, unless you disable spawning of any mobs it adds. I will see into finding WHICH mob spawns as this entity and share once I find out.