The second rule, not to mention the overall spirit of the competition, seems to indicate that it's supposed to be a pixel-art competition. Having gradients and being able to blend colors at will not only eliminates the the need for a palette but also removes the sense of simplicity from the competition. Again, this is up to the contest organizer to decide. I'm just putting in my two cents.
And if I can blend colors freely to create whatever my heart desires, I'm seriously going to start over and do something completely different. Seriously, the style I chose was based entirely on the idea that I couldn't do that!
Also... looking at it now... I need to go back and re-do that stone. I know I said I wasn't going to... but I'm totally going to.
Yes, but Sam isn't blending colors or using gradients, it's just anti-aliasing. All the color clusters are still crisp and it's clear that he's using the palette.
Yes, but Sam isn't blending colors or using gradients, it's just anti-aliasing. All the color clusters are still crisp and it's clear that he's using the palette.
Eh... I see your point. I don't agree with it, however, since anti-aliasing has never really been a thing in simple packs. Again, though, not for me to decide.
But those aren't simple textures in my opinion... meaning Alvoria mostly. God darn you guys, I'm going to make them in that style as well then.
I really think we need a ruling on what constitutes "simple" in terms of this contest. Everyone seems to be making awesome textures... none of which are all that "simple".
I really think we need a ruling on what constitutes "simple" in terms of this contest. Everyone seems to be making awesome textures... none of which are all that "simple".
We are all too talented, but not talented enough to be able to do non-talented stuff...
Roses are red, violets are blue, sugar is sweet, and so are you.
The roses are wilted, the violets are dead, the sugar bowl's empty, and so is your head.
Sam, I don't know if those count as simple textures, purely because of the AA. It is one of those things where if the same thing was done at lower resolution, it would without a doubt not be allowed, but because of the resolution you chose and the style, it is hard to judge.
Currently, I am going to have to say that they don't count though, as I feel like AA makes it less of a simple pack and more of a vector pack.
For those who would like some more clarification on what exactly counts as a simple pack for this competition, here are some examples/inspiration
What is a simple pack, you ask? It is quite simply a pack that uses color, line, shape, and design to flesh out beautiful textures. It does not rely on filters or detailed shading, and it does not attempt to look realistic. A simple pack is NOT, however, a collection of bucket fill textures or plain squares with outlines. For visual explanation:
2. You must use the palette you choose! No combining palettes or adding colors. Once you declare your choice, you're stuck with it. :]
4. Any resolution allowed, but simple style only. This means no realistic or ultra detailed textures. The most important things to keep in mind are color and stylization.
At least in my opinion, none of that excludes non-pixel art. The first section there doesn't limit the definition to pixel art specifically. Vector art can be simple too, it's just a little different. Real textures have curves lol
The rule about mixing palettes and adding colors simply means that you cannot alter the palette that you choose to use. Meaning, you have to make the best of the colors you've got. It does NOT exclude anti-aliasing or anything like that. Those sorts of techniques have no effect on the "simple-ness" of the textures, so it shouldn't matter much.
At least in my opinion, none of that excludes non-pixel art. The first section there doesn't limit the definition to pixel art specifically. Vector art can be simple too, it's just a little different. Real textures have curves lol
The rule about mixing palettes and adding colors simply means that you cannot alter the palette that you choose to use. Meaning, you have to make the best of the colors you've got. It does NOT exclude anti-aliasing or anything like that. Those sorts of techniques have no effect on the "simple-ness" of the textures, so it shouldn't matter much.
Anyway, that's just my opinion.
I would have to say though that AA goes under the "Does not rely on filters" part.
Your pack would be completely acceptable if not for the AA.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The official Bluebird continuation is underway! Please come and help keep the pack alive!
"Simplicity Complex*" Daily - Day 2: Stone (again)
*Working Title
It took me all day to get a stone pattern I like... and now the other stones look like wallpaper my comparison. Aw well. I might have to go back and re-do some stuff after the competition since if I keep doing everything to perfection there's no way I'll get everything done under the time limit. Not even the expanded one.
Critiques are appreciated... even if I won't follow any advice right away.
I would have to say though that AA goes under the "Does not rely on filters" part.
Your pack would be completely acceptable if not for the AA.
I don't agree. I think you guys are focusing too much on the palette restriction and not enough on the overall purpose of the competition. With these competitions, there always seems to be way too much emphasis on using a restricted palette, so much that you're forgetting what the contest is actually about.
And anyways, as I already said, there's no way for me to not have the AA there. The program I'm using doesn't have that capability, and if I'm going to be making 200-odd textures, there's no way I could do it by hand or in any efficient manner. No, cut me out of the judging if you have to, but I'm going to continue the way I am.
Well, I think the fairest solution is to put it up to a vote. Added one to the OP.
Can you add an "only at higher resolution" option to that? I'm OK with 'stretching' the rules for high-res packs, but wouldn't be willing to do so for someone making a 16x or 32x pack where it gives a rather pronounced boost to quality and detracts from the simplistic nature of the texture.
I really don't agree. This means it gives higher res packs an advantage at looking much smoother and cleaner VS normal full pixel packs.
I don't think it's really fair to say those of us working at lower sizes must stick to the pallet, but those working bigger are free to use AA to make their packs smoother, thus adding more colors then what the pallet allows.
Why cant I use AA on my 32x textures? There big enough and could def use it in some spots. If I just upscaled all my textures to 64x, then can I use AA?
I mean shoot.
That looks a LOT better then
That. and that's just for the grass edges as a example.
So.. we can break the pallet so long as we upscale our textures.. Yeah I see NOTHING wrong with that /end sarcasm.
SHOOT Have you SEEN Glendale? it's 16x and uses smooth shading for nearly everything and works FINE. So why cant I use AA on 16x textures?
Oooo 16x AA...
I'm sorry but no. We had none of that in the original challang. Why is it suddenly a big issue now?
I AM A -NON PIXEL ARTIST- I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH STICKING TO PIXEL WORKS.
If I have no issues, and no one else is really crying about it.. WHY is it an issue?!
I see no reason why higher res textures cant stick to a normal pixel edge and use colors in the pallet to AA with by hand instead of LETTING THE PROGRAM SMOOTH IT FOR THEM..
Well, maybe we can find a program that reduces the colors in the image using a user defined palette. That way Sam can work with his inkscape or whatever that was, then remove the anti aliasing leaving only the colors from the palette he chose.
EDIT: I think found something that might work for that, in gimp:
I mean come on. Look at Dragon Dance from Steelfeathers. That is a 64x pack, that uses AA from a pallet and looks amazing and crisp. It don't use a program to smooth the edges... It by far is one of my most fav 'simple' packs out there. It is stunning and creative with it's color hues. It don't need anything extra to make that.
Allowing a PROGRAM to AA your lines for you, in my book falls under the same as using a filter. You are not doing it by hand, you are allowing CODING to do it for you.
Really, if the choice is to allow AA via a program to do the work for us, count me out. Here I am, a NON FREAKING PIXEL ARTIST, working to stay with in the rules on 32x textures, and now we want to give leeway to those working in higher scale? I don't see this as discrimination, and neither did anyone else in the first challenge..
Yeah no.. if such pass's count me out. I'll take 'Polished' as I been calling it and go elsewhere, as for a NON PIXEL ARTIST I am rather happy with how it's coming out even if it's hard to switch my brain over.
Taiine, you're completely misunderstanding what I'm asking.
I don't want anti-aliasing because I think it's more convenient, or because I think it will give me some sort of advantage, or because I'm too lazy to do it by hand (Dragon Dance is a horrible example of that, by the way; it's all hand-pixeled and aliased as all get out).
Also, I would like to clarify that giving loose color restrictions to high-res packs only was not my idea. I don't want that.
I want AA and such because I'm not making a pixel art pack, and I don't WANT to make a pixel art pack, so there's no reason for me to have a strict palette in the first place.
Having a unified color palette that all the textures draw from is good, and when I make my textures, I am strictly choosing colors from the palette I selected. But having me choose a palette of ~40 colors and saying that I can use those colors and those colors ONLY, no matter what I do, is ridiculous and pointless when I'm making a 256x vector pack. That sort of attitude is EXTREMELY biased towards pixel artists. AA makes SENSE when you're doing vector art. Without it, everything looks jagged and terrible (yes, I tried my textures without AA, and it was a noticeable difference).
I'll quote the OP again:
span>It is quite simply a pack that uses color, line, shape, and design to flesh out beautiful textures. It does not rely on filters or detailed shading, and it does not attempt to look realistic
Nowhere in there does it say that I have to make a pixel art pack, or that I have to use ONLY the colors in my palette, with no in-betweens or anything.
You guys are totally missing my point. "Simple" is a matter of style, and not a matter of how many colors you use. Having unnecessarily strict palette rules turns what could be an ART competition into a PIXEL art competition. But what if I don't want to do a pixel art pack, huh? What happens then? You can't look at the few textures I've made so far and claim they don't fit the theme of "simple."
You guys do this ALL THE TIME, and it's really frustrating. Every contest I've seen on here has had a palette restriction. All of them. The only time I've ever been in a competition that allowed a little bit of freedom with the palette was when I was in the DB32 palette challenge (ironically). This turns an ART competition into a PIXEL art competition, and it happens in every thread, no matter what the theme is. BUT I WANT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, OKAY?! I can still draw from the palette, and stay within the theme of the competition. There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to.
</rant>
If this can't be resolved, I'll be dropping out. And I don't expect to be participating in any more competitions anytime soon.
So tell me, where did any of this happen during the first Simple Pack Showdown? You know a showdown that went to the very end, and a lot of nice packs came out of it? At what point did anyone start wining or complaining about wanting to make a high res VECTOR pack for a 'simple' pack?
An idea behind a simple pack is crisp clean designs, to give proper examples to people making bucket fills and outline packs, with textures done by hand. No program or filters to do the work for us. No "Lets draw a line with the pen tool and let the program calculate where all the AA and blending will go."
Dragon Dance is a good example as it shows you CAN AA by hand, using a pallet given and have it HD.
Honestly, to me I think you are just missing the whole point behind what made the simple pack showdown work out so well. What you have is a Vector, also known as a Illustrated pack.
The whole idea behind these challenges is to try something new, try something you may never have done before, practice with new ideas, styles and restrictions. To CHALLENGE yourself. Get out of that comfort zone.
I couldn't partake in the first one, I didn't have the time. I'm enjoying this as it's CHALLENGING me to work in a style I've never done before. Even my normal pixel art isn't 'simple' by design.
Why should we throw the rules out the door just because you don't want to do it a certain way? Should a person use a race car in a bike race because they don't want to ride a bike? should the rules be changed?
Either way looks like you are getting your way. So count me out. Now everyone is going to upscale their textures to get around the normal set rules.
If this can't be resolved, I'll be dropping out. And I don't expect to be participating in any more competitions anytime soon.
I intend to start one at some point that doesn't have a palette restriction. Like, by necessity it can't have one. It'll probably be January at this point, though, since it wouldn't do to have it during the holidays.
Having read the last two big rants, I find myself on the fence again. Right now, for this competition, my mind is erring on the side of "let the man compete". At that resolution, AA isn't really an advantage so I don't see a reason not to allow it. As Taiine pointed out, at lower resolutions it makes the textures look better by a fairly significant margin. At 128x and up, it's only notable in it's absence... and only then at close range.
While I still think it's against the "spirit" of simple packs... well... I also think resolutions above 32x are also against the spirit of simple packs because honestly how often do you see a pack that bills itself as "simple" in a high resolution? Rarely going on never, that's how often. Any higher generally calls itself a "cartoon" or "illustrated" pack. So yea, I acknowledge that this contest can challenge some of those conventions and am going to be fine with it in spite of my not actually being fine with it.
Yes, but Sam isn't blending colors or using gradients, it's just anti-aliasing. All the color clusters are still crisp and it's clear that he's using the palette.
Eh... I see your point. I don't agree with it, however, since anti-aliasing has never really been a thing in simple packs. Again, though, not for me to decide.
I really think we need a ruling on what constitutes "simple" in terms of this contest. Everyone seems to be making awesome textures... none of which are all that "simple".
We are all too talented, but not talented enough to be able to do non-talented stuff...
The roses are wilted, the violets are dead, the sugar bowl's empty, and so is your head.
Currently, I am going to have to say that they don't count though, as I feel like AA makes it less of a simple pack and more of a vector pack.
For those who would like some more clarification on what exactly counts as a simple pack for this competition, here are some examples/inspiration
Mixed Nuts
Nemo 2
Uhntite-Lia
Dandelion
Bluebird
Pastel Plumb
Doll House
Grim Evening
Puffy Lines
Ot
Hazelwood
Crandale
Color Chips
Squareswept
Tiny Pixels
All of these packs do not use gradients, anti aliasing, etc. They are just nice, simple packs.
At least in my opinion, none of that excludes non-pixel art. The first section there doesn't limit the definition to pixel art specifically. Vector art can be simple too, it's just a little different. Real textures have curves lol
The rule about mixing palettes and adding colors simply means that you cannot alter the palette that you choose to use. Meaning, you have to make the best of the colors you've got. It does NOT exclude anti-aliasing or anything like that. Those sorts of techniques have no effect on the "simple-ness" of the textures, so it shouldn't matter much.
Anyway, that's just my opinion.
I would have to say though that AA goes under the "Does not rely on filters" part.
Your pack would be completely acceptable if not for the AA.
*Working Title
It took me all day to get a stone pattern I like... and now the other stones look like wallpaper my comparison. Aw well. I might have to go back and re-do some stuff after the competition since if I keep doing everything to perfection there's no way I'll get everything done under the time limit. Not even the expanded one.
Critiques are appreciated... even if I won't follow any advice right away.
I don't agree. I think you guys are focusing too much on the palette restriction and not enough on the overall purpose of the competition. With these competitions, there always seems to be way too much emphasis on using a restricted palette, so much that you're forgetting what the contest is actually about.
And anyways, as I already said, there's no way for me to not have the AA there. The program I'm using doesn't have that capability, and if I'm going to be making 200-odd textures, there's no way I could do it by hand or in any efficient manner. No, cut me out of the judging if you have to, but I'm going to continue the way I am.
Can you add an "only at higher resolution" option to that? I'm OK with 'stretching' the rules for high-res packs, but wouldn't be willing to do so for someone making a 16x or 32x pack where it gives a rather pronounced boost to quality and detracts from the simplistic nature of the texture.
Edit: Thank you for adding the clarification!
I don't think it's really fair to say those of us working at lower sizes must stick to the pallet, but those working bigger are free to use AA to make their packs smoother, thus adding more colors then what the pallet allows.
Why cant I use AA on my 32x textures? There big enough and could def use it in some spots. If I just upscaled all my textures to 64x, then can I use AA?
I mean shoot.
That looks a LOT better then
That. and that's just for the grass edges as a example.
So.. we can break the pallet so long as we upscale our textures.. Yeah I see NOTHING wrong with that /end sarcasm.
SHOOT Have you SEEN Glendale? it's 16x and uses smooth shading for nearly everything and works FINE. So why cant I use AA on 16x textures?
Oooo 16x AA...
I'm sorry but no. We had none of that in the original challang. Why is it suddenly a big issue now?
I AM A -NON PIXEL ARTIST- I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH STICKING TO PIXEL WORKS.
If I have no issues, and no one else is really crying about it.. WHY is it an issue?!
I see no reason why higher res textures cant stick to a normal pixel edge and use colors in the pallet to AA with by hand instead of LETTING THE PROGRAM SMOOTH IT FOR THEM..
EDIT: I think found something that might work for that, in gimp:
http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-image-convert-indexed.html
I mean come on. Look at Dragon Dance from Steelfeathers. That is a 64x pack, that uses AA from a pallet and looks amazing and crisp. It don't use a program to smooth the edges... It by far is one of my most fav 'simple' packs out there. It is stunning and creative with it's color hues. It don't need anything extra to make that.
Allowing a PROGRAM to AA your lines for you, in my book falls under the same as using a filter. You are not doing it by hand, you are allowing CODING to do it for you.
Really, if the choice is to allow AA via a program to do the work for us, count me out. Here I am, a NON FREAKING PIXEL ARTIST, working to stay with in the rules on 32x textures, and now we want to give leeway to those working in higher scale? I don't see this as discrimination, and neither did anyone else in the first challenge..
Yeah no.. if such pass's count me out. I'll take 'Polished' as I been calling it and go elsewhere, as for a NON PIXEL ARTIST I am rather happy with how it's coming out even if it's hard to switch my brain over.
I don't want anti-aliasing because I think it's more convenient, or because I think it will give me some sort of advantage, or because I'm too lazy to do it by hand (Dragon Dance is a horrible example of that, by the way; it's all hand-pixeled and aliased as all get out).
Also, I would like to clarify that giving loose color restrictions to high-res packs only was not my idea. I don't want that.
I want AA and such because I'm not making a pixel art pack, and I don't WANT to make a pixel art pack, so there's no reason for me to have a strict palette in the first place.
Having a unified color palette that all the textures draw from is good, and when I make my textures, I am strictly choosing colors from the palette I selected. But having me choose a palette of ~40 colors and saying that I can use those colors and those colors ONLY, no matter what I do, is ridiculous and pointless when I'm making a 256x vector pack. That sort of attitude is EXTREMELY biased towards pixel artists. AA makes SENSE when you're doing vector art. Without it, everything looks jagged and terrible (yes, I tried my textures without AA, and it was a noticeable difference).
I'll quote the OP again:
Nowhere in there does it say that I have to make a pixel art pack, or that I have to use ONLY the colors in my palette, with no in-betweens or anything.
You guys are totally missing my point. "Simple" is a matter of style, and not a matter of how many colors you use. Having unnecessarily strict palette rules turns what could be an ART competition into a PIXEL art competition. But what if I don't want to do a pixel art pack, huh? What happens then? You can't look at the few textures I've made so far and claim they don't fit the theme of "simple."
You guys do this ALL THE TIME, and it's really frustrating. Every contest I've seen on here has had a palette restriction. All of them. The only time I've ever been in a competition that allowed a little bit of freedom with the palette was when I was in the DB32 palette challenge (ironically). This turns an ART competition into a PIXEL art competition, and it happens in every thread, no matter what the theme is. BUT I WANT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, OKAY?! I can still draw from the palette, and stay within the theme of the competition. There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to.
</rant>
If this can't be resolved, I'll be dropping out. And I don't expect to be participating in any more competitions anytime soon.
An idea behind a simple pack is crisp clean designs, to give proper examples to people making bucket fills and outline packs, with textures done by hand. No program or filters to do the work for us. No "Lets draw a line with the pen tool and let the program calculate where all the AA and blending will go."
Dragon Dance is a good example as it shows you CAN AA by hand, using a pallet given and have it HD.
Honestly, to me I think you are just missing the whole point behind what made the simple pack showdown work out so well. What you have is a Vector, also known as a Illustrated pack.
The whole idea behind these challenges is to try something new, try something you may never have done before, practice with new ideas, styles and restrictions. To CHALLENGE yourself. Get out of that comfort zone.
I couldn't partake in the first one, I didn't have the time. I'm enjoying this as it's CHALLENGING me to work in a style I've never done before. Even my normal pixel art isn't 'simple' by design.
Why should we throw the rules out the door just because you don't want to do it a certain way? Should a person use a race car in a bike race because they don't want to ride a bike? should the rules be changed?
Either way looks like you are getting your way. So count me out. Now everyone is going to upscale their textures to get around the normal set rules.
I intend to start one at some point that doesn't have a palette restriction. Like, by necessity it can't have one. It'll probably be January at this point, though, since it wouldn't do to have it during the holidays.
Having read the last two big rants, I find myself on the fence again. Right now, for this competition, my mind is erring on the side of "let the man compete". At that resolution, AA isn't really an advantage so I don't see a reason not to allow it. As Taiine pointed out, at lower resolutions it makes the textures look better by a fairly significant margin. At 128x and up, it's only notable in it's absence... and only then at close range.
While I still think it's against the "spirit" of simple packs... well... I also think resolutions above 32x are also against the spirit of simple packs because honestly how often do you see a pack that bills itself as "simple" in a high resolution? Rarely going on never, that's how often. Any higher generally calls itself a "cartoon" or "illustrated" pack. So yea, I acknowledge that this contest can challenge some of those conventions and am going to be fine with it in spite of my not actually being fine with it.
That totally made sense. Shut up.