Minecraft Forums

Quote from CptSpaceToaster»

Not sure if joking, or missed the meaning.
Here's this for reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Jokes~

Also i like your work on coloured lighting. I'd thought that wish was long since dead.

Quote from Barteks2x»

Minecraft was >100x slower probably because VMWare used software rendering for OpenGL (does the VM support OpenGL?). It's still possibe that Minecraft would be slower, but not 100x slower.

Alright, I think I've gotten to the bottom of what was going on to make Minecraft 1.8.1 run at 1-2 fps in the VM. OpenGL 2.1 WAS active though. When other games I tested required a higher level of OpenGL than the VM supported it did not do software rendering, it errored out with an opengl error of some sort.

I was finally able to get 1.8.1 running at an average of 25-45 fps by tweaking the Minecraft video settings. It looks like some settings just do not work well with the VM's OpenGL, the Host Video card supports OpenGL 4.x so that's not the problem. The render distance was left at the default of 12. Turning MIP-Mapping completely off and turning V-Sync off are what made the largest difference, I'm not sure if anything else I messed with had any real affect but those two things raised the fps from 1-2 to 25-45 with much higher peaks.

So thankfully it looks like I will be able to play Minecraft in VM if I really want to, just not at 60fps unless I'm willing to drop the view distance. Now I need to do the Minecraft vs Block Story comparison outside of the VM..

Quote from 128k»

If you were to estimate how much percent of this project is complete until release, how much?

I'd say somewhere between 5% and 95%.

Trying to slap a number on to how "complete" a piece of art is is more difficult than creating the art itself. And everytime someone asks for ETA's or related, the developer has to stop work and spend a few hours calculating the estimate

Also, will I be able to run this mod on a server alongside forge mods?

Yes, providing M3L has Forge compatibility from the beginning (very likely).

Quote from MineCrak»

Alright, I think I've gotten to the bottom of what was going on to make Minecraft 1.8.1 run at 1-2 fps in the VM. OpenGL 2.1 WAS active though. When other games I tested required a higher level of OpenGL than the VM supported it did not do software rendering, it errored out with an opengl error of some sort.

I was finally able to get 1.8.1 running at an average of 25-45 fps by tweaking the Minecraft video settings. It looks like some settings just do not work well with the VM's OpenGL, the Host Video card supports OpenGL 4.x so that's not the problem. The render distance was left at the default of 12. Turning MIP-Mapping completely off and turning V-Sync off are what made the largest difference, I'm not sure if anything else I messed with had any real affect but those two things raised the fps from 1-2 to 25-45 with much higher peaks.

So thankfully it looks like I will be able to play Minecraft in VM if I really want to, just not at 60fps unless I'm willing to drop the view distance. Now I need to do the Minecraft vs Block Story comparison outside of the VM..

VMWare only has Direct3D hardware acceleration within Windows guests. No OpenGL, it's all software rendering. You're out of luck there, you may never get a playable framerate of Minecraft in VMWare unless you have a Core i7 @ 4GHz+ or something crazy. GPU OpenGL capability is irrelevant, so the level would depend on the guest OS's capability to calculate OpenGL... it could be equal/higher than 2.1 though, which is the highest Minecraft uses last I checked. Those games that crashed out were likely because they needed something higher than whatever OpenGL version the OS supports via software wrapper.

Why, pray tell, are you using a VM? Java supports all the common consumer systems.

If your guest is on Windows XP or later, consider googling for a OpenGL to Direct3D wrapper... I'm not sure if any modern one exists though, nor if it will be faster or even compatible with OpenGL 2.1 in Minecraft - however this is one possibility for getting HW accelerated OpenGL in VMWare (by wrapping it to Direct3D which VMWare *can* virtualize on your host GPU).

No, VMWare Workstation has supported Hardware accelerated OpenGL 2.1 since at least Workstation 5 and it's equivalent VMware Player. I haven't found any sign of it supporting anything higher than 2.1 yet but I really hope they get off their duffs and push it higher, I'd even pay for the upgrade if they did.

That wrapper thing sounds interesting though, I'll have to check into that.

Funny thing about the current Minecraft System Reqs; It says OpenGL2.1 supported for Integrated graphics but 3.1 required for add-on cards... In any case, I'll be testing it on the Host system itself soon to see how it fairs with the actual video card etc.

In answer to your question I want to move as many of my games and software to VM's when my main new system is ready as is possible. The grand majority of my games are not very graphics intensive and my current tests with this particular VM on my smaller test system indicate that many of them should work more than well enough to make me happy. Oil Rush, for example, with all settings maxed out and set to DX9 looks fantastic and plays smoothly in this VM.

The reason why to do it is so that my software (most of it) will be permanently activated (and backed up in that state) regardless of whether or not the company servers for activation remain on in the future. Also so that I don't have to reinstall several hundred games and other assorted software when, not if, I eventually move to new hardware and or OS. This also keeps all game saves where they need to be etc. ALSO; it keeps software permanently installed on the version of OS that they are compatible with, no worries about them breaking with Windows 10 15 or 20. I will also have some XP VM's for games and such that work best on XP. The pain will be things like XP games that have heavy DRM that won't allow them to work in a VM... For those I will need to just wait until I can buy them from GOG without that particular DRM. For games with Heavy DRM like that which will work on Win 7 I will install them on a dual-boot DRM partition of my Project box, away from my main system where it can't screw up my OS etc. But from the way it's looking I'll likely keep copies of my Minecraft installs functional in a VM while also having a copy on the main system outside of the VMs for the sake of performance.

And of course I do have a back-up plan for those VMs.

Here is the run down in the spoilers below:

Minecraft vs Block Story - Basic Performance Test

There are definitely some HUGE differences in performance between the two engines, both IN and OUT of a VM. And remember, One of those Block Story versions is from 2 years ago... Just imagine where Minecraft could have been today if managed properly.

* One of the things this proves is that a Cubic Chunks system can work amazingly well performance-wise.

Impressive spoiler tags.

I've heard that NBTExplorer allows editing of "cubic chunks" suggesting that SOME implementation is available of this mod, or else they wouldn't have added this capability in NBTExplorer. People don't usually add features to software that are completely useless, or that depend on something else being released by somebody else that has not yet been released. Any idea where I can get this mod? Any "unofficial channels" I could use to get a copy of this mod?

Holy crap! Seriously?
AWESOME!



I wasn't expecting a working modloader for another month or two honestly.

You make it look easy.

This is seriously awesome news!

Quote from Cuchaz»

The mod is not available to anyone at the moment. I don't even have a working copy. The copy I have is still suuuuper broken. I can fix it, but it just takes time.

I very much doubt that some editor supports editing tall worlds.

Your source of information is suspect. =P

Some editors are not format sensitive. Like a hex editor for instance. I haven't used NBTexplorer, but if it's reported working with the old cubic chunks mod and / or other save file variants i would assume it to be just a way to gain access to the file for manual editing.

This is going to be an awesome mod that will probably be revolutionary to minecraft! Keep up the good work Cuchaz !

Quote from JingKob»

Some editors are not format sensitive. Like a hex editor for instance. I haven't used NBTexplorer, but if it's reported working with the old cubic chunks mod and / or other save file variants i would assume it to be just a way to gain access to the file for manual editing.

How is that relevant? Hex editors, NBT editors and other binary/byte editors are not format sensitive no - they are format ambiguous and position sensitive which is even *more* complicated. Binary/byte editing expects on various hard-coded indicators in order to open/close particular data streams when parsing, and some parts (e.g. header/footer) may have to follow a strict size with zero-padding.

Never mind the fact that you're arguing with the mod developer who knows more than anybody about how Tall Worlds handles it's world data, what's your point?

I was just throwing in my two cents since someone brought it up. had no intention of arguing with anyone. I really am sorry if it seamed like I was.

my only point was that I guess some programs may be able to read the file, but that any editing would have to be manual, since no save editor would know what to do with the data.

Also, I meant to quote Videogamer555 XD

span>No other mod currently uses the exact same save file structure as Tall World Mod will use. Infact, tall worlds saves into a database and not some generic file, so even a hex editor and manual editing wouldn't help much there unless you are also able to decrypt and uncompress data with the exact same method the database uses

How do all these tree punchers know the details of a mod that hasn't even been created yet?