The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
10/18/2012
Posts:
123
Minecraft:
glibby
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If this is such a big issue, why not only allow factions to initiate combat against other factions that are the same size or larger, and can only go to war with smaller groups if the smaller faction attacks first in order to actually start the fight?
Would that work, though? I mean by itself it seems like the only reason you would team up officially would be to get your ass kicked by stronger people. Maybe if there were incentives like fleet tactics and gameplay unavailable to smaller squads, but the players who are going to suck the fun out of the game are also the ones who will avoid a fair match-up if they can.
normal PVP servers are, where people betray others for no reason, and one back stabber can ruin the entire faction. Is there going to be anything to discourage this?
If you look at starmade then I dont see the reason to not do damage on a per-block basis. Just make ship systems so that if one part gets damaged then bad things happen.
The big issue I see is that large ships have an ultrahigh ratio of volume/surface, so stacking on armor does become rather OP. But still, once that armor gets broken, very bad things are going to happen to that ship, especially if components are explosive and packed tightly. There will be a death-star-effect where on ships that are elongated, explosions can be easily contained, but on a blobby ship it will be near impossible. Shields must only cover a specific area, not the entire ship, incur a penalty on expanding shield coverage proportional to volume. Those factors alone will probably be enough alone to discourage oversized cube ships on the basis of being too risky of an investment.
Also keep in mind that big ships are much easier to hit. Make weapons based on projectile deviation, not maximum range. You'll see those large ships countered by sniping ships.
If turrets must be mounted on the outside, then once the light turrets are down then fighters will chew them to bits. And since its a large cube, only 1/6 of the turrets need to be taken out.
I would like to see testing before condemning this.
Instead of designing to avoid certain things, design things so certain things aren't an issue.
I like the idea of having 3-5 man units which each have access to their own machine shops, etc. Those units then amalgamate to form a corporation. That way if access is on a need-to basis then sabotage becomes difficult.
If this is such a big issue, why not only allow factions to initiate combat against other factions that are the same size or larger, and can only go to war with smaller groups if the smaller faction attacks first in order to actually start the fight?
Beyond Protocol addressed this issue. A small guild incurred no penalty for engaging a larger one. But when a large one engages a smaller one, then it receives a penalty on all units proportional to the score difference. Because that penalty applies to the large guild overall, then they will be in for a bad time if other guilds attack them. It was very effective at discouraging newb stomping; so much so that the game was rather boring because of lack of conflict.
So large guilds at least need to be allowed to smack around small guilds within their territory.
You can easily measure score as weath acquired - lost, mostly in the form of mined blocks - asploded blocks.
Space Station 13
If you've not played it then do so asap. I recently discovered it and as a result I've not done any programming in a week.
Its a great game but it is lacking, mainly because its engine barely works.
However it has huge potential if its mechanics were applied to a better game.
-Inventory is very unique, yet extremely realistic, and I would love to see more games even outside the genre do inventory like that. Active items are held in hands, and to switch items you must free a hand to access your backpack, when transferring items between containers you must use a hand as a buffer. Its awkward at first, but after you get used to it the realism is great.
-Research, to gain a tech level you destroy an item of equal or greater tech value, instead of trees there are individual fields of research, with items having arbitrary tech levels from fields individually. This would highly encourage attacking and trading with larger factions to steal their tech.
I also like the way Shores of Hazeron does research. Research facilities take money which grows based on tech level. Each cycle they produce a tech disk of their current level which may be distributed to manufacturing facilities or other research facilities. Each cycle has a chance to level up tech.
-Manufacturing is done by machines that cover a very large range of parts. Some things like robots must be assembled in parts then put together with tools in a certain way. Ofcourse the crafting grid is core to vanilla mc, but the existence of TMI shows that it gets tedious for high tech things.
-Jobs are specialized and isolated from eachother. Different items in different categories have dramatically different ways of manufacturing them, which encourages players to be skilled at one thing they enjoy and work with others for other things.
What do you say to this take on industry?
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[ Type 1 Anarchy ] - 3D guns - Mechs - Missiles - Turrets - Frikkin Laser Beams
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
8/17/2011
Posts:
141
Member Details
Problematic, this method annihilates any chance of an individual progressing alone as I doubt an individual is going to build large factories and research stations. He will probably want it all compact on his ship, in fact most people would prefer to have it all compact on their ships as this really saves you from unnecessary waste of time.
Problematic, this method annihilates any chance of an individual progressing alone as I doubt an individual is going to build large factories and research stations. He will probably want it all compact on his ship, in fact most people would prefer to have it all compact on their ships as this really saves you from unnecessary waste of time.
Economy. Currency.
Making all manufacturing so it can fit on a single ship is strange and would really ruin immersion for me. If you want convenience then make manufacturing facilities able to be remote controlled. Any game with a half decent econ has logistics in some form. Besides, whats a space opera without massive shipyards?
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
8/17/2011
Posts:
141
Member Details
What you see here is not a mod anymore, it is a total conversion, that takes time and figures won't be soon either. As for progress you can go a few pages back, frost posts images and technical info all the time.
So...... Could someone answer the Three Forbidden Questions™ please.
WHAT PART OF THREE FORBIDDEN QUESTIONS™ WAS NOT SELF EXPLANATORY???
Okay, fine
1. I have heard somewhere that Frostbyte was working on some project that took up most of his time. Is it done?
Project codename Demon Baby is still underway and it refuses to die. The next deadline is coming coming up, which is why I haven't been doing much development this past month. This coming month is not going to be much better. If we're lucky, after Thanksgiving there will be less pressure.
2. Everybody hates it when people asks when Futurecraft will be done.... but I want to know what has been done.
Lots of partial implementations and notebooks full of experimental theory and code, but the trunk of the development starts and ends with the far view system. The parameters that ends up using cascade down to every other facet of the game. Until then, everything else is necessarily a proof of concept.
3. Where did Mackeroth disappear to, I haven't seen any posts for a while.
According to Minecrack he met an untimely end at the hands of an Italian crime syndicate. But someone using his screen name still frequents the ship building threads, though he isn't very involved in active development these days. Not that there is much he could do; I'm the one holding up the show.
@Khlorghaal
The manufacturing and research points are more or less in the direction we want to go with that. Higher levels don't mean better, but instead more specialized. Where at low level you might make "sensors", at high levels you might have optical and thermal sensor arrays, radar, and subspace doppler, each of which have different strengths and weaknesses and different effectiveness in various environments.
Machines should be big. No more of these magic do-everything cubes, we're talking whole industrial plants. This is one of the big advantages to keeping the component layer separated from the block layer; things can take any shape and scale and should even work while the chunk is unloaded, baring any required external interaction. In this case, low tier tech could be made with simpler means and with resources available to players starting out and those not spec'ed for manufacturing.
Futurecraft is by nature intended to work as an MMO, so you'll want to have things rewarding long-term investment.
I haven't been on the forums in about a month, so I don't know if this has been posted there yet, but http://www.spaceengineersgame.com/. Space Engineers is in a very early alpha right now, about the level Minecraft was when some of us started playing it, but it's on Steam and it's almost exactly what Futurecraft is intended to be. Just thought I'd mention that.
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May the Force be with you. Unless you're a troll, in which case, may the farce be with you.
A possibly weird question that I didn't see in the posts, but will the ships that are featured on the Futurecraft banners be used as templates for basic ships?
Also, I think that this is a great idea and probably have a test server, depending on how the computer runs.
We've talked about having an in-game market for buying and selling schematics, but not in too much detail. There will be some way to save ship models to simplify replication.
Maybe similar to the starmade ship saving and spawning mechanics. Have a place where you can upload and download ships online. Then download them to you minecraft folder and to some thingy-ma-bobs that put it in game and done. That simple!��������������������
Thanks! One other question, have you considered making a modpack for Futurecraft? If one server had a bunch of mods that another didn't, then that might cause some problems. I would definitely be able to help with that.
And back on the subject of ships, would a group of players be able to take over an NPC ship? Also, there's a game for the iPod/iPad called Galaxy on Fire 2, where the main systems have the equivalent of a supergate. Might you add that to the inner worlds?
Maybe similar to the starmade ship saving and spawning mechanics. Have a place where you can upload and download ships online. Then download them to you minecraft folder and to some thingy-ma-bobs that put it in game and done. That simple!������������������������������
Thanks! One other question, have you considered making a modpack for Futurecraft? If one server had a bunch of mods that another didn't, then that might cause some problems. I would definitely be able to help with that.
The engine will be open sourced, and I would hope mods would come out of that, but Futurecraft itself needs to be monolithic to work across servers.
And back on the subject of ships, would a group of players be able to take over an NPC ship? Also, there's a game for the iPod/iPad called Galaxy on Fire 2, where the main systems have the equivalent of a supergate. Might you add that to the inner worlds?
I looked briefly at this, and it just looked the the sort of jump gates you see in every space game.
Ours will be 1-1 endpoints, and rendered Portal-style where you can see through to the other side and waltz across like they are part of the same space. They'll also be two-sided, so vessels can enter and exit from either end.
Just a reminder I have a trade show coming up, so I can't really do anything with the mod this month, even on the weekends.
Also I am strongly favoring spherical projected planets these days, since this Peirce Quncuncial projection seems pretty manageable.
If you look at starmade then I dont see the reason to not do damage on a per-block basis. Just make ship systems so that if one part gets damaged then bad things happen.
The big issue I see is that large ships have an ultrahigh ratio of volume/surface, so stacking on armor does become rather OP. But still, once that armor gets broken, very bad things are going to happen to that ship, especially if components are explosive and packed tightly. There will be a death-star-effect where on ships that are elongated, explosions can be easily contained, but on a blobby ship it will be near impossible. Shields must only cover a specific area, not the entire ship, incur a penalty on expanding shield coverage proportional to volume. Those factors alone will probably be enough alone to discourage oversized cube ships on the basis of being too risky of an investment.
Also keep in mind that big ships are much easier to hit. Make weapons based on projectile deviation, not maximum range. You'll see those large ships countered by sniping ships.
If turrets must be mounted on the outside, then once the light turrets are down then fighters will chew them to bits. And since its a large cube, only 1/6 of the turrets need to be taken out.
I would like to see testing before condemning this.
Instead of designing to avoid certain things, design things so certain things aren't an issue.
I like the idea of having 3-5 man units which each have access to their own machine shops, etc. Those units then amalgamate to form a corporation. That way if access is on a need-to basis then sabotage becomes difficult.
Beyond Protocol addressed this issue. A small guild incurred no penalty for engaging a larger one. But when a large one engages a smaller one, then it receives a penalty on all units proportional to the score difference. Because that penalty applies to the large guild overall, then they will be in for a bad time if other guilds attack them. It was very effective at discouraging newb stomping; so much so that the game was rather boring because of lack of conflict.
So large guilds at least need to be allowed to smack around small guilds within their territory.
You can easily measure score as weath acquired - lost, mostly in the form of mined blocks - asploded blocks.
Space Station 13
If you've not played it then do so asap. I recently discovered it and as a result I've not done any programming in a week.
Its a great game but it is lacking, mainly because its engine barely works.
However it has huge potential if its mechanics were applied to a better game.
-Inventory is very unique, yet extremely realistic, and I would love to see more games even outside the genre do inventory like that. Active items are held in hands, and to switch items you must free a hand to access your backpack, when transferring items between containers you must use a hand as a buffer. Its awkward at first, but after you get used to it the realism is great.
-Research, to gain a tech level you destroy an item of equal or greater tech value, instead of trees there are individual fields of research, with items having arbitrary tech levels from fields individually. This would highly encourage attacking and trading with larger factions to steal their tech.
I also like the way Shores of Hazeron does research. Research facilities take money which grows based on tech level. Each cycle they produce a tech disk of their current level which may be distributed to manufacturing facilities or other research facilities. Each cycle has a chance to level up tech.
-Manufacturing is done by machines that cover a very large range of parts. Some things like robots must be assembled in parts then put together with tools in a certain way. Ofcourse the crafting grid is core to vanilla mc, but the existence of TMI shows that it gets tedious for high tech things.
-Jobs are specialized and isolated from eachother. Different items in different categories have dramatically different ways of manufacturing them, which encourages players to be skilled at one thing they enjoy and work with others for other things.
What do you say to this take on industry?
Economy. Currency.
Making all manufacturing so it can fit on a single ship is strange and would really ruin immersion for me. If you want convenience then make manufacturing facilities able to be remote controlled. Any game with a half decent econ has logistics in some form. Besides, whats a space opera without massive shipyards?
WHAT PART OF THREE FORBIDDEN QUESTIONS™ WAS NOT SELF EXPLANATORY???
Okay, fine
1. I have heard somewhere that Frostbyte was working on some project that took up most of his time. Is it done?
Project codename Demon Baby is still underway and it refuses to die. The next deadline is coming coming up, which is why I haven't been doing much development this past month. This coming month is not going to be much better. If we're lucky, after Thanksgiving there will be less pressure.
2. Everybody hates it when people asks when Futurecraft will be done.... but I want to know what has been done.
Lots of partial implementations and notebooks full of experimental theory and code, but the trunk of the development starts and ends with the far view system. The parameters that ends up using cascade down to every other facet of the game. Until then, everything else is necessarily a proof of concept.
3. Where did Mackeroth disappear to, I haven't seen any posts for a while.
According to Minecrack he met an untimely end at the hands of an Italian crime syndicate. But someone using his screen name still frequents the ship building threads, though he isn't very involved in active development these days. Not that there is much he could do; I'm the one holding up the show.
Some day. When it's ready.
@Khlorghaal
The manufacturing and research points are more or less in the direction we want to go with that. Higher levels don't mean better, but instead more specialized. Where at low level you might make "sensors", at high levels you might have optical and thermal sensor arrays, radar, and subspace doppler, each of which have different strengths and weaknesses and different effectiveness in various environments.
Machines should be big. No more of these magic do-everything cubes, we're talking whole industrial plants. This is one of the big advantages to keeping the component layer separated from the block layer; things can take any shape and scale and should even work while the chunk is unloaded, baring any required external interaction. In this case, low tier tech could be made with simpler means and with resources available to players starting out and those not spec'ed for manufacturing.
Futurecraft is by nature intended to work as an MMO, so you'll want to have things rewarding long-term investment.
Also, I think that this is a great idea and probably have a test server, depending on how the computer runs.
You'd still have to be able to construct them.
The engine will be open sourced, and I would hope mods would come out of that, but Futurecraft itself needs to be monolithic to work across servers.
I looked briefly at this, and it just looked the the sort of jump gates you see in every space game.
Ours will be 1-1 endpoints, and rendered Portal-style where you can see through to the other side and waltz across like they are part of the same space. They'll also be two-sided, so vessels can enter and exit from either end.
Just a reminder I have a trade show coming up, so I can't really do anything with the mod this month, even on the weekends.
Also I am strongly favoring spherical projected planets these days, since this Peirce Quncuncial projection seems pretty manageable.